I searched some old entries (10 years old) on the topic but I think that it is worth bring up again. I have a Laguna 18BX bandsaw and the ceramic blade guides are driving me over the edge. I can't do anything (no matter how tighten the setting knobs) to make the ceramic guides stay put when I cut a blank. They do OK when you saw straight stock, however, rotate a blank and they get out of adjustment "every time." I ruined a .5" blade just yesterday (knife-edged it) because of this. I got fed-up and ordered the Carter bearing guides in the hopes that it might provide me a little help. Anybody have any experience and feedback with the Carter guides? They are certainly expensive enough at $305 a set.
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Bandsaw Blade Guides
- Thread starter Donovan Bailey
- Start date
Try coating the side opposite the set screw with something like Shelac or poly.
I put the Carter guides on my 18BX and absolutely love them. Take the time to get them set properly and I’m sure you’ll love them too......
Thanks for the feedback. My new guides are scheduled to arrive today. Do you cut blanks on your saw? If so, do the Carter bearings do the job...or do you have to continually fiddle with them to make them work on blanks?
I have the Laguna 16HD with the ceramic guides. Only problem with them that I have had is that the thrust bearing tends to work loose. I have learned to check that out fairly closely. I keep a 1 1/4 inch blade on it for cutting blanks, and have a smaller lathe with a 1/2 inch blade for cutting circles. Old PM with 6 inch cutting height. My Laguna is maybe 15 years old. At the time, they didn't have much in the way of being able to adjust the side ceramic guides for front and back. Not sure what they have done about that. This saw does have more than enough power...
robo hippy
robo hippy
Donovan,
The Carter Guides have some great reviews, but I think most of those are woodworkers cutting dry wood. If you're cutting green (aka wet) wood then you might run into problems with roller bearing pressing/sticking wet sawdust against the inside of the blade (facing the wheel). My older 18" Jet Bandsaw has European style Guides that I'd like to replace, but I'm afraid to buy expensive Carter Guides only to find out bearings don't work so well with sawdust from green wood. If you cut a lot of green wood then please report back here about your experience.
Btw, did you ever try using another guide material besides ceramic like Lignum Vitae or Olson Cool Blocks in order to see if those would stay put any better?
The Carter Guides have some great reviews, but I think most of those are woodworkers cutting dry wood. If you're cutting green (aka wet) wood then you might run into problems with roller bearing pressing/sticking wet sawdust against the inside of the blade (facing the wheel). My older 18" Jet Bandsaw has European style Guides that I'd like to replace, but I'm afraid to buy expensive Carter Guides only to find out bearings don't work so well with sawdust from green wood. If you cut a lot of green wood then please report back here about your experience.
Btw, did you ever try using another guide material besides ceramic like Lignum Vitae or Olson Cool Blocks in order to see if those would stay put any better?
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I have a minimax 16" bandsaw and it uses bearing guides similar to the carter. I have not had any problems cutting green wood and they are excellent. I have had bandsaws with other guides and they worked. the only problem I have and it so far isn't a problem as such. The bottom bearings get to where they stick and I have to dissassemble them and clean and lube them every once in a while. It must not be a problem because I don't notice any problems when cutting. The only time I clean them is about once a year when I'm changing blades I think to check those bearings and they won't rotate with finger pressure so I fix that. the top bearings never seem to develop that issue.
I appreciate it, Robo. I watched your demo as the first view when I started with this bandsaw issue...and appreciated it. You will be glad to know that Laguna must have listened to you too because this is the first bandsaw I've seen out there that "sucks the way it is supposed to." They fixed it where the sawdust actually moves out of the machine. Sweet mercy that is nice. They also fixed any and all power issues by a combination of engineering the wheel sizes along with the motor option. I've got the 220v big motor but I have cut on the 110v version and I have not seen or heard of anyone knocking the power availability. My 220v 3hp is a beast of a cutter...when I can keep the ratty guides set (I'm still miffed about ruining another new blade).
Karl: Of course I didn't get my new guides today but I'll give you some feedback on their performance after I put them through their paces for awhile. I cut a lot of wet wood on the saw. What size and tpi blade do you use on your 18" to cut wet blanks?
Yes I use them to cut blanks and rarely make adjustments. I did have one time that one of the mounts came loose and readjusted......that’s it....
Thanks. I use the same size.
I put Carter guides on my Grizzly recently and it cuts great even with a dull or kinked blade. No problems with wet wood so far. My only regret is that I didn't get these 10 years ago
Great feedback, Gerald. Thank you. They have volunteered their Carter engineer to assist with setup (nice of them since I didn't ask for it and the installation looks to be pretty straightforward) plus they have a happy buzz about them when it comes to chatting about the benefits of installing their guides. I like that too.
I braze my own blades using silver solder from a blade reel that I bought on eBay. I think my current blade stock is 3/8" 3TPI, but I need to check next time I'm in the shop.
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Hard to beat woodturner bandsaw blade from Highland Woodworking. I use them with great success on my MiniMax MM16 to cut bowl blanks from wet wood.
Check it out at https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodturners-bandsawblade.aspx. - John
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I have a MiniMax MM16 bandsaw that originally had Euro guides. About a dozen years ago I bought a set of Carter guides. They are nice, but setting them up and adjusting the bearings is somewhat tedious. As a result I don't like changing to a different size blade because I have to spend time tweaking the guides all over again. Also, a small design change would allow me to get more vertical clearance, but Carter wasn't interested in my suggestion.
I have ceramic guides, but I haven't used them in years. For ½" and smaller blades I prefer Cool Blocks. They are so quick and easy ... just set for zero clearance. I also use teak or other oily tropical hardwood instead of Cool Blocks for smaller blades ¼" and smaller.
Additional thoughts:
I have ceramic guides, but I haven't used them in years. For ½" and smaller blades I prefer Cool Blocks. They are so quick and easy ... just set for zero clearance. I also use teak or other oily tropical hardwood instead of Cool Blocks for smaller blades ¼" and smaller.
Additional thoughts:
- Use PAM to lubricate the blade .... yes it is the same thing that you use in the kitchen to spray baking sheets.
- Never ever twist the blade when cutting a curve ... rotate the work, but keep the blade cutting straight ahead. If it is too difficult then use a smaller blade or one with a wider kerf.
- Don't overtighten the blade tension . It should be tight enough that it doesn't flutter and it should have a clear note when the blade is plunked.
Bill, I've tried using PAM, WD-40, and wax sticks as a lubricants, but it doesn't take much before those lubricants are rubbed off when cutting of wet green wood especially some woods like pear. now I keep a wire wheel on a air die grinder to clean my blades off when the buildup gets too much. Also, don't mind replacing my blades more often since they now only cost $6 or $7 dollars to make, and they seem to be equivalent in quality to the Woodturners Bandsaw Blades from places like Highland.
Still I've been wondering if scrapping type guides like Cool Blocks might help with green wood by scrapping any moist sawdust off the blade. Thus, the reason I'm trying to understand why someone cutting a lot of green wood using scraping guides would have better or worse success with buildup using bearing guides.
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I definitely prefer a rubbing guide like CoolBlocks or hardwood blocks to help keep gummy sawdust off the blade. I also use PAM very liberally so that the blade and tires are wet. It is necessary to frequently reapply PAM if sawing logs into turning blanks. It is still necessary to clean the tires.
Using bearing guides works well for dry wood, but the gummy sawdust of wet wood makes a mess of the bearings.
Bill are your Carter guides the ball bearing guides or the Centauro style? I have a MiniMax MM20 that came with the Centauro style and they are a pain to adjust and like you I don't like to change blades. I would like to find guides that I could change blades and not spend a half hour or so getting the guides set up too. I have looked at the Ceramic ones but they seem to get mixed reviews from woodturners at least.
What guides do you have that you can use Cool Blocks?
In chatting with the Carter engineer (and he is a woodturner) he said that Carter made a "greenwood blade" (3/8 and 1/2) that lays out a little wider curf that is really good for cutting wet wood. I am going to give these a try on my next buy.
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James, my MM16 came with the same type of guides that yours had ... Euro, AKA Centauro. I can't remember if I got the CoolBlocks guide from MiniMax or Carter. I would go look at the guides, but all of the guides are off the bandsaw and I am still in the hospital following heart surgery on October 22. I am not a fan of the ceramic guides. For small blades, I use teak in place of CoolBlocks. I also let the entire blade get buried in the hardwood guide including the teeth. I also tune up the blades by using a slipstone to round over the back of the blade and then polish the sides of the blade.
My Carter guides are high quality ball bearings which are great furniture work using dry wood. For cutting green wood blanks use guides that you don't mind getting dirty.
Michael Fortune has a great article on Fine Woodworking about setup & tuning. I think this link will work : https://www.finewoodworking.com/2011/04/07/how-to-set-up-a-bandsaw
Best blades I have found are the Lennox Bimetal Diemaster blades. The teeth are M42 HSS, which is the same material that is used on the pallet cutting blades. Having the proper set to the teeth and TPI/teeth per inch, is critical to cutting green wood. You need a different blade for green wood than you do for dry wood. A 3 tpi blade can be resharpened a number of times.
robo hippy
robo hippy
The Lennox Diemaster 2 and the Carter green wood blade seem to be made of the same metal, they look identical, except the tooth count, but different from the Highland Woodturners blades. I have used the Carter blade, and have the Lennox Diemaster 2 on one of my bandsaws now. The Carter has 3 tpi, and the Lennox has 4 tpi. I prefer the 3tpi for logs/green wood. I think the 4 tpi has slightly better manors as it is not quite as aggressive as the 3 tpi, but I will be going back to the Highland Woodturners blades when the Lennox has run its life.
I did an experiment on these blades after Reed sang the praises of the Lennox blades several times....I had to see for myself, and admit the Deimaster 2 is a good blade...not any better than the Carter Green Wood blade, nor the Highland Woodturners blade, in my personal experience with all 3 blades, and for the cutting I have done, which is considerable. My honest assessment is that a turner cannot go wrong with any of these 3 blades.
I did an experiment on these blades after Reed sang the praises of the Lennox blades several times....I had to see for myself, and admit the Deimaster 2 is a good blade...not any better than the Carter Green Wood blade, nor the Highland Woodturners blade, in my personal experience with all 3 blades, and for the cutting I have done, which is considerable. My honest assessment is that a turner cannot go wrong with any of these 3 blades.
Donovan,
My current blade coil is Lennox (06318) #32 Wood Bandsaw Coil 3/8 032 3TPI H R (Hook Rake). Note: This blade is probably too stiff for anything less than an 18" bandsaw.
As far as price, I bought my current coil used on eBay for less than half price. Bought new my 133" blades would still only cost around $14 each to make which is about half the price I was paying for Woodturners blades (after shipping).
Karl:
I promised to provide some feedback after I put the new Carter guides through their paces. In a nutshell (and as Gerald said in the string above) I wish that I had done this when I bought the machine about a year ago. I have cut wet wet blanks out of every wood that I could get my hands on (walnut, beech, sycamore, poplar, hard/soft maple, cherry, ash, red/white oak, etc.) and I have not had to make a single adjustment to the blade setup (.5" - 3 tpi)...no sap build-up, no slippage, no tinkering with the setup before a cut. Since I intended to give you a report back as promised, I took the time to take the table off the machine and set it up exactly as I could in accordance with the instructions and I worked with the Carter engineer to give me a quality control check on the installation...but frankly, the installation is pretty danged quick and simple. The only negative things I have to say about the entire setup is that they cost the mighty sum of $300. However, I know that I have ruined 2 or 3 blades using the ceramic guides that came with the machine to cut wet round so the math starts getting compelling pretty quickly. I'm grateful that these bearing guides work for me and I am confident that they will do a good job for me for a long time to come. Yell if you have any other question.
Guys, I am skipping topics just a little: In talking with the Carter engineer, he convinced me to try the "Snodgrass" method of setting up the bandsaw where you set up the deepest part of the blade gullet on the center/crown of the upper wheel (and there are other steps in this setup on YouTube). I used the Carter recommended setup (Laguna recommends centering a blade on the wheel) and I've must admit that I'm getting some fine cuts on both dry and wet woods. I'd be interested to know if anybody else is using this setup...along with any positive or negative feedback on how it is working for you.
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The wheels on my MiniMax MM16 aren't crowned and believe that the recommendation for larger blades is to have the teeth hanging off the tires slightly.
I should have said this earlier....but I think that this setup will only work for blades that are max .5" (at least on my machine) before having to move the blade forward to mount wider blades. My wheel has a crown and the theory is that if you put the deepest part of the gullet on the center crown it cuts down on the room of the moving blade to pivot/wiggle during a cut. As we all know, theory and application don't always travel the same road, however, I whittled on some 12" soft poplar today as a quick test and I must admit that there "might" just be something to this type of setup.
I have been using the Snodgrass method for the last 5 years and yes it does work
Karl what products do you use to braze your blades, I have a source for some new old blades that would need to be cut down to fit my bandsaw, I have been thinking about learning to braze them..
This seems to be the same stuff as the Lee Valley 'Refill Kit for Bandsaw Blade Splicing', but significantly cheaper:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Silver-Sol...0N-50-Silver/312800785805?hash=item48d461358d
It's cheap and easy to make your own splicing jig using a piece of aluminum angle iron along with two small clamps. Just figure out a way to mount the angle iron so you leave a gap the blade to be brazed. Tip: Look for angle iron with a sharp (vice rounded) inside corner.
Donovan,
So are you saying the roller bearings on the Carter guides do a better job at keep green sawdust from sticking to your blades compared to the scraping guides? ? If so the any idea why the roller guides would have a better cleaning action compared to the scraping guides?
How fresh is your green wood that you were cutting? I often cut blanks within a few days of cutting up a tree so some of the wet sawdust getting past my wheel brush and dust collector can be compressed into the blade by the wheels. Once the build up gets too much then I take a wire wheel on a drill to clean off the blade, but this seems to dull my blades slightly. This was a big reason for brazing my own blades so I could replace them more often.
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"Aluminum angle iron" you say?
I agree with you. Some resinous woods leave lots of gummy sawdust glued to the blade, bearings, tires, and all of the hard to clean tight spaces. Of course there are lots of wood (mesquite for example) that aren't a problem. While CoolBlocks and similar guides along with original PAM aren't a 100% cure, I think it's a far better solution to minimizing the build up of crud.
You can use a piece of hardwood as a scraper or a knife with the edge pointed toward the table and turn the wheel by hand.
The central problem that I was addressing on my Laguna 18 was that I could not keep the ceramic guides adjusted when I turned blanks. I ruined several series of blades because of this. They did an OK job while cutting straight, however, I had to tinker with them constantly when I was cutting wet and round. I cut a lot of fresh green wood and I had to clean my blades and wheels on a regular basis when I used the ceramic guides...and I expect that I will have to do the same with the Carter guides. I'm reasonable sure that there is no perfect solution out there for eliminating sap on a bandsaw blade or stopping wet sawdust from working its way onto a wheel so I'm resolved to being stuck with the task of inevitably having to do a little maintenance from time to time. That said, the Carter guides seem to do a good job at fixing my original problem. I didn't count how many blanks I've turned during my test run (a bunch) but all of the blanks that I cut slung sap when I rough turned them. I just now walked out and looked and I don't see any sawdust compressed on the bearings. Of course that is not to say that I won't have snowball-sized clogs the next time I crank up some fresh soft maple. The ceramic guides as well as the Carter bearings are not set to "ride" the blade to provide some kind scraping action to try and eliminate sap and dust buildup and I'm pretty sure that it would ruin the temper on a blade in fairly short order if they did. They both just bump the blade back in place when torqued. Now I did spend some time looking at the Cool Blocks as an option but I didn't buy a package and install them. Rightly or wrongly, I came to the conclusion that they would probably do a good job on smaller blades...but I don't even own a 1/8 or 1/4" blade. That said, I'll use these Carter bearings and report back any problems I have with them going forward...and I'll try some other option if the bearings pester me like the ceramic guides did.
I had recently upgraded to the Laguna 18BX from an older Delta. I was hoping that the ceramic guides would work out well. I was wrong. I have the Carter guides on the Delta and really appreciate how well they had worked. After spinning the blade on my wheels(put big grooves in the rubber), I upgraded to the Carter and new poly tires, now my Laguna cuts like it should. Like a dream.
I upgraded my 18in Jet bandsaw to the Carter guides. I'm finally happy with this intimidating tool. Almost lost my index finger more than 2 decades ago with a small Ridgid bandsaw. Betty Scarpino helped me get over my fears and got the Jet from a retired turner. I use mine for wet and dry wood, no problems so far.
Carter makes several styles of guides, which ones did you get, Ball-bearing, Guidall, or Micro-Precision ones?
Not sure what I got, I bought them at the AAW Symposium in Raleigh. The bandsaw master Alex Snodgrass told me what I needed to buy. If in doubt, ask Alex through messenger. It's almost like a different bandsaw with the Carter guides.