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4 ft. LED shop light

Discussion in 'Woodturning Discussion Forum' started by John Torchick, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. John Torchick

    John Torchick

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    Got the shop light at Harbor Freight today; selling at $29.95 each. Plugged it in and it is bright! Might go back and get a couple more with my birthday money. Number is 64410.
     
    Emiliano Achaval and hockenbery like this.
  2. Emiliano Achaval

    Emiliano Achaval Administrator Staff Member

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    I have to turn mine off sometimes, my only complaint is too bright! Hard to see the shadow when you needed.
     
  3. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    So far all the LED's that I have seen are only about ⅔ as bright as T12 fluorescent lights.
     
  4. john lucas

    john lucas AAW Forum Expert

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    I didn't have T12x but my whole shop is lit with the LED's and I love it. The color is pleasant and they are so bright. I'm getting ready to put one directly over my workbench so I have a really bright area for detail work.
     
  5. John Torchick

    John Torchick

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    I have the old T-12 lights and they might be at the curb with a free sign next week. The lights are going to be $19.95 Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Wife noticed this in the sale ad we got yesterday.
     
  6. John Torchick

    John Torchick

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    That might be influenced by the tropical sun over the Pacific Ocean.
     
  7. Gary Beasley

    Gary Beasley

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    That would vary by brand I guess. I directly replaced my tubes with Hyperikon brand tubes and they were way brighter.
     
  8. Don Wattenhofer

    Don Wattenhofer

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    I started with 9 T12 two tube 96" cold weather fixtures when I built in my shop in 2008 and they were sufficient for the time but they don't age well. The replacement tubes are almost impossible to find now plus the ballasts are starting to fail so I find I can replace with LED for less then the replacement cost. The fixture above my lathe failed so I purchased two 4 ft. Led fixtures to replace it and it is much brighter then the T12. The T12 tubes and ballasts can be replaced with LED tubes that fit into the existing fixtures but I don't have first hand knowledge of how good they are. Overall I am sold on LEDs as the best way to go.
     
  9. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    One of the biggest prob;ems with fluorescent besides the cost of a ballast is that the output begins to fade after two years and the power consumption also goes up . That is why on a 3 or 5 year rotation the better companies will change them all out. Led does not fade as far as I know. I have he Hyperikon in the last four I have purchased and they are brighter than the ones I had previously used as direct replacement (removing ballast). Another advantage of LED is they do not have to warm up in cold weather to get full light. I have one of the new ones above my lathe and could almost do without the worklights, maybe if ny eyes were younger.
     
  10. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes, the high intensity LED lights also lose output at about the same rate as fluorescent lights. LED life is normally specified as the point where the output drops to 70% of the initial output which also is the value used to state lifetime of fluorescent lights. Most people, being cheap usually don't replace them until they completely quit working.
     
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  11. Tim Connell

    Tim Connell

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    Thanks for that info Bill. I wasn't aware that LEDs lost output like that. Especially with all the advertising bragging on a 20 year " life".
     
  12. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    The 20 year life is based on limited use such as three hours per day max. Of course, it's a prediction since they have only been around a few years. We have a number of lights that are on all day long and a few that hardly ever get turned on. CFL's also had rosy predictions about how long they would last. So far I have had to replace several LED's after only a couple years of service ... same story for some CFL's that had extravagant claims.
     
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  13. John Torchick

    John Torchick

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    Hmmm. Might start molding some candles out of lard.
     
  14. john lucas

    john lucas AAW Forum Expert

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    I've had my LED's for over 4 years now. They run all day most days. I haven't noticed any brightness loss, there never is a hum from a ballast that's going, they come on instantly cold or hot. Now granted my Flourescents were pretty much bottom of the line but then so are these LED's. I could not be happier with them. Oh and they never flicker like my Flourescents did on occasion. My friend just bought some that are strips. About an inch wide and 8 feet long. They plug together so you can attach as many as you want and arrange them just about any way. If I did it again I would look at those. Much less wiring required.
     
  15. John Torchick

    John Torchick

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    Fluorescents come with special fixtures that operate in cold environments.
     
  16. Don Wattenhofer

    Don Wattenhofer

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    That is what I installed with electronic ballast in my shop in 2008 and now I can't find replacements locally plus the 3 ballasts have failed.
     
  17. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson

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    In the good old days you could purchase shop lights and several years later replace the lamps for a couple of dollars for each tube, if the ballast burned out you could purchase a new ballast for about $15.00 which would get you back up and running. You can usually find replacement power supplies for a typical LED luminaire, however you will not find any replacement LED modules to repair any that go bad on luminaires you purchase. High ambient temperatures in a shop area reduces the lumen output of the LED modules and reduces the life expectancy dramatically. Majority of power supplies used to power LED luminaires produce about 20% THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) on your electrical system, this can potentially cause issues with VFDs, PLCs and other sensitive electronic equipment used in commercial and industrial work areas. Harmonic voltages and currents tend to migrate to the lowest impedance components of your electrical system and over time cause heating and premature failures of these components. They make Drive Isolation Transformers to separate VFDs from the rest of the electrical system to prevent problems like this from occurring, they are rarely used in the real world as the easiest path to take is not spend the extra money to do it right. Over time you end up with more solid state power supplies which are cheap to make pushing more harmonics on to an electrical system. Capacitors are the one component that tend get hit the hardest by harmonic distortion on an electrical system, transformers, breakers and switches will also incur damage over time.
     
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  18. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

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    If you are considering re-lighting your workshop, or any space really, I think it's important to understand 'color rendering index', or CRI.

    In a nut shell, you can make white light of any color temperature from three specfic wavelengths of red, green, and blue light, but to make a true white that renders colors accurately you need a white light composed of a multitude of wavelengths.

    Incandescent bulbs have very broad spectrum white, while LED's, particularly cheap ones, are more narrow band.

    Here's a better explanation:

    http://www.americangreenlights.com/color-temperature--color-accuracy-and-color-rendering-index.html
     
  19. john lucas

    john lucas AAW Forum Expert

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    Depends on whether or not your going to use them for Photogaphic purposes. The LED's I bought are 55K. They don't list the CRI but they photogaph pretty darn close to daylight. That's the 4 foot lamps. You can get Daylight balanced Flourescents but when I checked them with the schools color meter they were cooler than 55K even though they were listed and had a pretty low CRI. They did photograph close enough to daylight to be used.
     
  20. John Torchick

    John Torchick

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    Preacher- We need to talk about a chandelier for the church.
    Member- Ain't nobody here knows what it is. Nobody can spell it. Besides, what we need is more light in the church!
     
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  21. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Surprised the heck out of me, but I actually had one LED that flickered like a fluorescent ... maybe it was a special model designed for people who lament the demise of fluorescent lights. :D

    When we talk about seeing a particular color such as red, blue, or green the light that we see isn't a single wavelength (unless it is a laser), but rather it is a diffuse spectrum in which one hue is dominant. Likewise the cones in our eyes have a broad response curve. Although the way that our color vision works is quite complex a simplified explanation is that we can create white light or almost, but not quite all colors that we are capable of seeing by combining red, blue, and green primary colors. The picture below is a generalization that can be extended to represent how our eyes respond to color as well as color filters and colored light sources. The point is that mixing the three primary colors is sufficient to produce good white light as well as most colors. Having said that, fluorescent lights don't produce a very smooth spectrum. LED's are improving , but they also have a few bumps in their output spectrum. Nevertheless, they are plenty good enough for most purposes. The CRI that Mark mentioned is a useful tool to tell us how good the light source is.

    rgb.jpg
     
  22. john lucas

    john lucas AAW Forum Expert

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    The problem is I don't know how they arrive at the CRI index that is posted on the lights. While searching for lights I could use to teach photography I found this out. Before purchasing I would make sure they said 55K with a CRI of 92 or above. None of them I ordered were accurate. Not even on Kelvin scale. None of them produced a true color when photographed. Most were very close, maybe 10 magenta or something like that off so it's easily correctable. I also found out they lied big time about the actual power of the light. I measured all the lights from 8 feet with no reflectors so I had a good comparison. Several said they were equal to 500 watts. They weren't even half what a 500 watt quartz light put out. And a lot of them were ordered from photography places.
     
  23. Mark Jundanian

    Mark Jundanian

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    Full disclosure, I dislike LED lighting. I would have very little of it in my world if I still had my choice. My expectations for interior lighting are defined by a lifetime of incandescent bulbs.

    Bill, I may be mistaken, but it was my understanding that LED's output light in a few fairly narrow peaks, certainly nothing like the broad spectrum output of incandescent light sources.

    John, I believe you're right when you say that manufacturers lie, and furthermore it's shameful and needs regulation. But there's not much else that ordinary consumers can look at than CRI rating.

    Personally when I learned about CRI it suddenly made sense to me why white LED white light, whether yellowish (yay) or blueish (yuck), seemes so garish and goulish to me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  24. Arkriver

    Arkriver

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    I wish you guys would learn to speak English. I understand very little of what you speak. All I know is that I had a 4 ft. fluorescent over the lathe and it did a pretty good job but quit working and I replaced with a 4 ft. LED that I like cuz it is brighter. Allyn
     
  25. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    John, the nice thing about digital SLR cameras is that you have access to the original raw files which allows you to apply custom processing rather than the limited processing that is programmed in the firmware. As long as you aren't using mixed lighting you can create a custom color profile. It requires shooting a Macbeth color target in the same lighting and then using an Xrite app to create the profile that can then be used by Adobe Camera Raw or Adobe Lightroom to normalize the lighting. If the image will be printed on paper Photoshop Professional can even even apply corrections for the printer and paper that are used. I've used this with just about every imaginable type of lighting and can get results that are equal to the high dollar photo lights. For everyday use the auto color setting on new cameras (and even cell phones) does a remarkable job of color correction.
     
  26. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Mark, the good thing about aging is that you develop cataracts that filter the color so that you won't be able to discern any difference between good and bad lighting. :D

    I've been replacing the incandescent floodlights in our bathrooms and kitchen as they burn out with Feit LED 2700K floodlights and can't tell the difference. Fortunately, I haven't been bothered by cataracts ... yet.

    Allyn, I just noticed your post and will try to resume speaking my native Texglish.
     
  27. Arkriver

    Arkriver

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    Bill, I have a wife that speaks that lingo so we should be good to go>
     
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  28. john lucas

    john lucas AAW Forum Expert

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    You can buy LED's in tungsten lighting range 3200K. I bought some for a couple of house lamps and they look and photograph quite warm and pleasant.
     
  29. Richard Stiers

    Richard Stiers

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    Lee Valley had 4' LED that are nice even lighting and bright (spec says they are dimmable), easy to hang, able to gang end for end or use either a 1' or 5' connecting lead. They are 4' Armacost Lighting 32 watt Slimlight. Lee Valley doesn't carry any longer but can be got at HomeDepot (or at least ordered and had it a couple of days max). Can gang as many as 5 lights.
     
  30. odie

    odie

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    In my 30 year old shop, other than multiple incandescent sockets, I have five 4' dual fluorescent light fixtures. Four of them only work on one tube.......will be replacing with LED's when they finally quit working, or run out of replacement tubes.....but not yet! :eek:

    -----odie-----
     
  31. Randy Heinemann

    Randy Heinemann

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    I saw yesterday that this LED shop light is on sale at Harbor Freight for $20 (maybe with a coupon) with a limit of 4. Just thought I'd let you know. That would be the cheapest I have ever bought an LED shop light. The last time I bought some 5000 lumens LED lights they were $26.
     
  32. John Torchick

    John Torchick

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    Randy, the sale where I bought the lights at $19.95 didn't allow coupons for them and some other items. The cashier at HF in Chattanooga said we are to get one here in Cleveland. Also, getting an Ollie's Bargain Outlet.
     
  33. Robert Grinstead

    Robert Grinstead

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    I have a three car garage for a shop with a 9" ceiling. It has 12) 4' led units I bought from Harbor Freight. Great price (on sale for $20) and bright. But after a few days they began to hurt my eyes. It was too bright! Sadly, I had to take them back. Going to try 4000lm fixtures.
     
  34. odie

    odie

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    That is surprising, Robert.......:eek:

    Just wondering......is your shop walls and ceiling painted white?

    I've had flourescent fixtures in my shop for the past 25 years, and frankly, a few of them are on the brink of failure. It's my plans to get LED fixtures, when that time comes to replace them......

    -----odie-----
     
  35. Don Wattenhofer

    Don Wattenhofer

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    Why not just shut some off?
     
  36. Randy Heinemann

    Randy Heinemann

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    The 5000 lumen LEDs are very bright but can be useful if hung high enough which allows them to light areas you can’t get to to hang a light. I did a mixture of 4000 and 5000 and that seems to work well. I did have one of about 7 fail and had to replace it within a year or so.
     
  37. Mike Johnson

    Mike Johnson

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    Good quality luminaires utilize a lens to diffuse the light emitting from the LED modules, without a lens your eyes are subjected to the intense light emitting from the small LED modules. Some lighting manufacturers will utilize an indirect LED design which reflects the LED light source off of a reflector in the luminaire which reduces the intense direct glare from the LED modules and helps direct the light into the work space in a higher efficiency design.
     
  38. Robert Grinstead

    Robert Grinstead

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    I wanted to do the same thing, replaced florescent fixtures with LED. My Shop walls and ceiling are white. I ended up buying some from Walmart for the same price.
    These are Sunco 4100lm and 5000k. They seems to about right for me. The HF LED's were 5000lm and 5000k which thought were too bright, actually dreaded go to the shop. They all are different you have to look close.
     
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  39. Fred Belknap

    Fred Belknap

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    I replaced the bulbs in my 4' florescent lights with led bulbs. Been a few years but I think I got them from Amazon. I used the same fixtures and just replaced the bulbs, easy to do. The led are shatterproof. I had one fall out of the fixture onto concrete and I put it back in and it worked fine.
     
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  40. stu senator

    stu senator

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    I've had flourescent fixtures in my shop for the past 25 years, and frankly, a few of them are on the brink of failure. It's my plans to get LED fixtures, when that time comes to replace them......

    -----odie-----[/QUOTE]
    Odie they sell 4' led bulbs for under $10 each to replace the standard T8 ( https://www.homedepot.com/p/toggled...Tube-Light-Bulb-2-Pack-D416-65321-2/308086234) (the 1.5" dia x 4' bulbs). You have to rewire the fixture but that only requires you to cut the wires to the ballast. It can stay in place. Then wire the 120V line to the terminals of each bulb on one end. Cut all other wires. Shut the power first.

    This doesn't require removing the old fixtures. Get bulbs that can be dimmed (cost a bit more) and use a dimmer.
    Stu
     
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