Changing Internet fashions

[n7bsn]

Some thing some-one (I think it was Bill B) posted last week got me to musing about the changing "fashions" in internet communications.

Just to set the stage a little, I've been "on-line" for quite awhile now, and involved with wood-working, if not turning, for even longer.

Some 20 years ago, the 'Net was not new, but the Web part was, and there was no real "forums" on the web. There were "forums", but they were e-mail forwarding forums (something like Yahoo Groups today) and Usenet Newsgroups.

Newsgroups are a peer-to-peer posting forum. Today the most popular gate-way to Newsgroups is Google Groups

Back then (20 years ago) there was only one real wood-working forum. rec.woodworking, or "The Wreck" as we called it. It was one forum, period, no sub-groups, just the one. So it had posts on wood-turning, carving, cabinetry, everything.

On a busy day it might see 500 posts, on a quiet Sunday it might only see 200. Made it hard to follow things sometimes.

In spring of 1996 some people had enough, and wanted the group split. Some people didn't.

I personally didn't care, so I ran what was called a "straw-poll". Since (back then) -everything- on Newsgroups (Usenet) was democratically decided. Since "The Wreck" creation pre-dated the "great renaming" (that was in 1987) a new goup would have to be renamed to "rec.crafts.woodworking" and then split (r.c.ww.general, r.c.ww.what-ever) . Some of the people on the group didn't want to be in"crafts" with the sewers and "women's" hobbies (and blacksmiths), some didn't want the group split for other reasons.
The "no" people won the poll.
By the end of the poll, I had decided that they were wrong, and it should have split.

The wood-turners decided that they didn't care and did a RFD/CFV and created rec.crafts.woodturning in the fall of 1996

That was the first on-line wood-turning forum.

It was also a success, seeing 20 some posts a day, almost right away.

Then about Fifteen years ago web-based Forums started becoming popular and the popularity of Newsgroups started dropping.

About 10 years ago, when I got interested in woodturning, I joined the newsgroup rec.crafts.woodturning, which was still seeing about 10 posts a day. Today it sees two or three a month.

I've seen the same thing in other newsgroups. In 1995 I led the effort to create rec.outdoors.rv-travel (the 2nd RV Usenet newsgroup, after alt.rv). It was very popular, but it's popularity started dropping as Web-based Forums became popular.

About the same time as I got interested in Woodturning, I got onto some Web based forums for both Wood-Turing and RVs. Recently I've noticed a drop in the number of postings to both RV and Wood-turning web-forums.

A couple years ago I "had" to get on social media, as it was the only way to keep in-touch with some friends and family that had largely abandoned other methods of communication.

Lately I've noticed a serious "up-tick" in the number of wood-turning and RV "groups" on Facebook, I've even seen a couple folk I know from this forum posting to them

Like I said, changing Internet fashions

 

[john lucas]

Forums

Personally if the forums had stayed like rec crafts I wouldn't be there today It was extremely rude. I got cussed out on several occasions. Consequently I quit and have t been back. It was so refreshing to have forums like this one , wood central, WOW , woodtalk and several more
I think those of us who frequent these forums have learned so much by all the sharing and camraderie

 

[Bill Boehme]

I first got involved with personal computers around 1983. Before that it was mainframe computers (starting with the Univac 1108), Hollerith cards, and ADDS terminals. In the early days there were ftp, nntp, gopher (for "go for"), archie (and veronica), email, and some things that I have forgotten. A utility called PINE was one of the means of communications and the first modems were around 75 baud (which is essentially 75 bits per second -- not kilobits or megabits, but just bits). Before newsgroups, if I am not mistaken, there were a number of unconnected dial up bulletin boards like CompuServe, Prodigy, and Delphi (sometimes called the Internet before the real Internet). Generally, they were long distance (no 800 numbers for the most part) and, of course, it was all strictly text. The first online service that I had was provided free with a subscription to the local newspaper. They set up some newsgroups and email could be sent and received using PINE. It was almost as fast as using regular postal mail. Somewhere in the very early 1990's, the world-wide web (which wasn't world wide yet) came into being, but it wasn't until Mosaic (forerunner of Netscape) around 1993 or so that it was possible to view "pages" with both pictures and text together. The beginning was primarily personal "Hello World" sites, but Mosaic is what set off the explosive growth in the new world wide web.

In those days there were no viruses and nobody feared posting their name and email address on the web. Personal home pages and web rings became popular. I think that is where the term surfing got started. Meanwhile, newsgroups sank into the gutter in every sense of the word which probably was more than anything else responsible for its demise.

I first noticed Internet forums when Wood Magazine announced that they were starting one up around 1995 or 1996. It grew immensely popular because it was one of just a few woodworking forums and was the largest by far. There was just a single forum on the Wood Magazine site and when it got to the point of needing to split into different topics, it set off a huge debate over a single forum vs. two. The management wisely decided to have a general forum and a Tools forum. Woodturning never even appeared on my radar until 2004 and then it suddenly replaced all of my other woodworking interests. Within a few months, I joined a club and very soon became their newsletter editor. Interesting how things change.

 

[Bill Boehme]

...... Some 20 years ago, the 'Net was not new, but the Web part was, and there was no real "forums" on the web. There were "forums", but they were e-mail forwarding forums (something like Yahoo Groups today) and Usenet Newsgroups.

If memory serves me correctly, I believe those were automated mailing list servers like LISTSERV and Majordomo.

 

[Mark Mandell]

You guys pre-date me by a fer piece.

My first experience was a very brief presence on "The Wreck" where I quickly surmised that people were more interested in getting into (or instigating) flame wars over trivial stuff than they were in sharing any useful information. Somehow I found my way to Badger Pond where I found just the opposite to be the case, and Wayne Miller did yeoman service on his experiment of a moderated forum. Alas the time came for Wayne to move on with his life and the Pond got "drained." The outflow landed on either SawMill Creek or WoodCentral, and while I tried both, I soon found WC more to my liking. As my focus drifted from flatwork to turning, I looked for another moderated forum where I might find a more concentrated knowledge base of turning members, finding this board in its early stages. It has morphed significantly over the years.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I first got involved with personal computers around 1983. Before that it was mainframe computers (starting with the Univac 1108), Hollerith cards, and ADDS terminals. In the early days there were ftp, nntp, gopher (for "go for"), archie (and veronica), email, and some things that I have forgotten. A utility called PINE was one of the means of communications and the first modems were around 75 baud (which is essentially 75 bits per second -- not kilobits or megabits, but just bits). Before newsgroups, if I am not mistaken, there were a number of unconnected dial up bulletin boards like CompuServe, Prodigy, and Delphi (sometimes called the Internet before the real Internet). Generally, they were long distance (no 800 numbers for the most part) and, of course, it was all strictly text. The first online service that I had was provided free with a subscription to the local newspaper. They set up some newsgroups and email could be sent and received using PINE. It was almost as fast as using regular postal mail. Somewhere in the very early 1990's, the world-wide web (which wasn't world wide yet) came into being, but it wasn't until Mosaic (forerunner of Netscape) around 1993 or so that it was possible to view "pages" with both pictures and text together. The beginning was primarily personal "Hello World" sites, but Mosaic is what set off the explosive growth in the new world wide web.

In those days there were no viruses and nobody feared posting their name and email address on the web. Personal home pages and web rings became popular. I think that is where the term surfing got started. Meanwhile, newsgroups sank into the gutter in every sense of the word which probably was more than anything else responsible for its demise.

I first noticed Internet forums when Wood Magazine announced that they were starting one up around 1995 or 1996. It grew immensely popular because it was one of just a few woodworking forums and was the largest by far. There was just a single forum on the Wood Magazine site and when it got to the point of needing to split into different topics, it set off a huge debate over a single forum vs. two. The management wisely decided to have a general forum and a Tools forum. Woodturning never even appeared on my radar until 2004 and then it suddenly replaced all of my other woodworking interests. Within a few months, I joined a club and very soon became their newsletter editor. Interesting how things change.

Bill, you obviously have your computer chops and have for some time.

I remember some of that also. Got into computing in 85. Took some local college night courses writing Pascal on a Honeywell mainframe. Had a login about twenty random characters long!

Got my hands on an old trash80 and then moved up to an 8088 system with dual floppy drives. First "major" PC project was building a 286 with a CGA monitor and 10meg hard drive. Yes, I said ten MSG for the younger guys out there.

It wasn't long after that I got online as you did. I remember Pine very well. And usenet which, as you point out, devolved into chaos and... We had the local BBS or two, and compuserv was long distance. 300 baud modem was blistering speed.

Mosaic and the first Netscape were just amazing I thought at the time, and by the time Netscape released 1.6 I think it was, we could post photos. And it wasn't an HTML accepted convention but a Netscape "extension". Anyone remember the <BLNIK> tag?

Then WFW, Winsock, and all the tools that followed. I was running a seven node NT Server network in the house "so my kids could learn".

Funny how things change indeed. I'm writing this on my iPad sitting at chick fil a watching my grandson playing. Free wifi. Who'd a thunk it? Besides maybe Bob Metcalfe and Vintage Cerf

 

[Bill Boehme]

Things that I love to hate:

• <BLINK>
• <BANNER>
• animated GIFs
• Gaudy repetitive backgrounds
• horrible decorative vertical stripe on left side of page
• music that can't be turned off

I still have a personal home page, but it will be going away for good at the end of the month. I wonder if this means that I need to start a blog or something.

If you are really bored, you can see it here.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Things that I love to hate:

• <BLINK>
• <BANNER>
• animated GIFs
• Gaudy repetitive backgrounds
• horrible decorative vertical stripe on left side of page
• music that can't be turned off

I still have a personal home page, but it will be going away for good at the end of the month. I wonder if this means that I need to start a blog or something.

If you are really bored, you can see it here.

Good hate list. Add the "click to enter" splash page.

Okay, I got bored and went to Scooter's page.

Very nice glider by the way.

I remember when embedding midi files was all the rage, and you could go to a site with blinking animated GIFs, purple patterned background and a looping midi. Geocities seemed to have a lot of them. Sure don't miss any of it.

I think it's a rule that we all have to either be on facebook, twitter, or a blog. I'm a violator

 

[hockenbery]

Things that I love to hate: [*]music that can't be turned off

All of my devices have Mute buttons.

. Are you using cans and string to connect to the web?

 

[Bill Boehme]

All of my devices have Mute buttons.

. Are you using cans and string to connect to the web?

I am talking about the state of the art 20+ years ago -- so,no, it was the first big advancement beyond can & string.

 

[Steve Worcester]

I ran a dial up Punter BBS before there was internet, so I understand. I have been involved in computers since about 1985 or so. Had a Vic20 then a Commodore 64 ( which ran the BBS with a dual single sided floppy) then went to an Amiga 1000. I won a Hayes 1200 baud modem, which retailed for well over $1000 at the time, and there was actually margin in computer products.
I have worked in the computer industry since about 1986 and seen a lot of change, and the Rec groups were what brought the woodturners together, but the framers drove us apart. It was Wild West with no real moderation.
Got involved in the forums (here) since day one.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I ran a dial up Punter BBS before there was internet, so I understand. I have been involved in computers since about 1985 or so. Had a Vic20 then a Commodore 64 ( which ran the BBS with a dual single sided floppy) then went to an Amiga 1000. I won a Hayes 1200 baud modem, which retailed for well over $1000 at the time, and there was actually margin in computer products.
I have worked in the computer industry since about 1986 and seen a lot of change, and the Rec groups were what brought the woodturners together, but the framers drove us apart. It was Wild West with no real moderation.
Got involved in the forums (here) since day one.

Steve, you're bringing back some memories of those days for sure. Remember the Kaypro "portable" PC?

Didn't the Amiga run on a processor similar to the first Apples? I seem to call that it was actually quite a powerful computer in its day if I'm not mistaken. Didn't it have it's own specific OS? But that was common back then with CP/M, DOS and a bunch of others.

I've always been mainly a hobbyist but really loved building computers back then. Stopped sometime after the pentium 100 became mainstream. Like you, was in the BBS early on and then the web. Did a bunch of small websites for the school board and local businesses as sort of a sideline. Nobody really knew what they were doing, me included. But it sure was fun.

Truth is though it got tiresome being tech support for everyone I knew. I definitely prefer putting tht energy and focus into turning. Far more satisfying.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Steve, you're bringing back some memories of those days for sure. Remember the Kaypro "portable" PC?

Didn't the Amiga run on a processor similar to the first Apples? I seem to call that it was actually quite a powerful computer in its day if I'm not mistaken. Didn't it have it's own specific OS? But that was common back then with CP/M, DOS and a bunch of others. ....

A fellow coworker had an Osborne suitcase computer. It was something to behold. Our company bought a couple Apple Lisa computers. I knew of only one employee who figured out how to use the Lisa. Apparently a lot of people couldn't figure it out.

The Apple II used the 6502 processor and I think that you are correct that the Amiga used the same one. Remember the Franklin that tried to be an Apple clone before Apple put the kibosh on them? The 6502 was a blazing fast 1 MHz processor with a tiny instruction set. I upgraded my Apples with a Zip Chip that upped the processor speed to 9 MHz. Later, I got a 20 MB hard drive that you had to handle like it was nitroglycerine. Now, you can get a 32 GB jump drive no bigger than a stick of chewing gum and treat it like an anvil.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

A fellow coworker had an Osborne suitcase computer.

The Apple II used the 6502 processor and I think that you are correct that the Amiga used the same one. Remember the Franklin that tried to be an Apple clone before Apple put the kibosh on them?

Forgot about the Osborne. I think I remember something about that. Apple sued and Franklin never was anything significant in the industry. Although I did own their Rex PDA. A PCMCIA card with an astounding 64k of memory

 

[Steve Worcester]

The Osborne was a cool computer for its time, but after I met him he was such a jerk to me, I really didn't want anything to do with him.
but that was the time when green screens were the norm, Amber was cool and white was the bomb.

The Amiga used it's own OS and had a graphics coprocessor and was multitasking, revolutionary at the time for the price point . Also around that time was the NEXT computer, one of the first workstations.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

The Osborne was a cool computer for its time, but after I met him he was such a jerk to me, I really didn't want anything to do with him.
but that was the time when green screens were the norm, Amber was cool and white was the bomb.

The Amiga used it's own OS and had a graphics coprocessor and was multitasking, revolutionary at the time for the price point . Also around that time was the NEXT computer, one of the first workstations.

Was the NEXT the product Jobs came up wih after scullery ran him off from Apple or was that the Lisa?

I seem to recall that there's an Amiga club still going. I think I read in Wired or somewhere. And didn't they try a new launch in the past decade?

 

[Bill Boehme]

While we're waxing nostalgic, does anybody remember the Sinclair. Developed by Clive Sinclair in the UK, its main claim to fame was that it was cheap. A joint Timex-Sinclair venture, the Sinclair 1000 was introduced in the US about 1983 and is best known for its price -- $99.99.

Here is a picture that shows a popular use for the Sinclair:

 

[Mark Hepburn]

While we're waxing nostalgic, does anybody remember the Sinclair. Developed by Clive Sinclair in the UK, its main claim to fame was that it was cheap. A joint Timex-Sinclair venture, the Sinclair 1000 was introduced in the US about 1983 and is best known for its price -- $99.99.

Here is a picture that shows a popular use for the Sinclair:

View attachment 7358

. Good one Bill!

Talk about progress, now we have a solution in software. You can use a copy of windows vista for that.

But I do remember the Sinclair. Didn't know anyone who had one.

We'll. now that we've established that we're dinosaurs...

 

[Bill Boehme]

... Talk about progress, now we have a solution in software. You can use a copy of windows vista for that. ...

I'm looking for a use for the Windows 8 Metro screen.

 

[Gretch Flo]

windows xp

Now that you guys have surfed up to modern days, I have had problems with my computer. I believe after the 2nd and third trip the tech got it right with a new modem. BUT he said 3 weeks ago Microsoft announced they were not continuing "support" for windows XP-which I have . (so you have to upgrade and go to a worse program!!!). What program is sunning smoothly now?????Recommendations for the future??? Gretch

 

[Bill Boehme]

Now that you guys have surfed up to modern days, I have had problems with my computer. I believe after the 2nd and third trip the tech got it right with a new modem. BUT he said 3 weeks ago Microsoft announced they were not continuing "support" for windows XP-which I have . (so you have to upgrade and go to a worse program!!!). What program is sunning smoothly now?????Recommendations for the future??? Gretch

There is no need to upgrade just because XP is no longer supported. Heck, even 98SE will run on older hardware. You might be able upgrade to Windows 7 depending on your hardware. Microsoft has a tool that you can run to see if there are any issues with upgrading. Windows 7 will run almost all of your current software either directly or in compatibility mode. In the unlikely event that something won't run on W7, Microsoft has you covered there as well. They have created XP mode which is a fully functional copy of XP that runs as a virtual machine from within W7. So, if you like XP then you could actually run all of your current applications in XP mode and things would look the same as they do now.

BTW, W7 is a much better OS than XP, but there are a few small differences in the look and feel.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I'm looking for a use for the Windows 8 Metro screen.

<RANT> PrtScn... output to printer, line bird cage with hard copy of desktop</RANT>

I stayed with XP as long as I could and now run 7. Also have a Mac running Snow Leopard or some sort of feline.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Now that you guys have surfed up to modern days, I have had problems with my computer. I believe after the 2nd and third trip the tech got it right with a new modem. BUT he said 3 weeks ago Microsoft announced they were not continuing "support" for windows XP-which I have . (so you have to upgrade and go to a worse program!!!). What program is sunning smoothly now?????Recommendations for the future??? Gretch

Gretch,

What Bill said. He's right. I ran XP until a month ago. We had to switch as a corporate decision because some of our other apps were sunsetting and upgrading them required a move to Windows 7. I also agree with Bill that it is a much better OS than XP. There is a small learning curve but you can actually get it to look almost exactly like XP.

I'm running some legacy applications that I didn't think would work, and you can run in a "virtual machine" that mimics XP.

One other thing. If you simply hate the idea of upgrading, consider getting a very good antivirus application, switch to Thunderbird for email and maybe Firefox or Chrome for web. They are free, open source applications. They are always being updated regardless of Microsoft's business practices and very stable. I use Chrome, Firefox and Thunderbird because I consider IE and Outlook to be inferior products and because IE is always trying to "help" me with redirects to their MSN site or whatever.

Anyway, a good antivirus application and changing your email/browser might be a cheap, and really painless way to go if you're happy with what you have. And you'll find that these other applications are very similar in feel and function altough not identical.

Just my .04 (have to put in 4 because my .02 isn't worth that much)

 

[DOCworks]

I agree with Bill B. Win 7 is by far the best choice if you are on 98SE or XP. I have a couple of customers that have tried to go to Win 8 and have been very unhappy. I used to hate Win 8, but after getting a little Dell Venue 8 Pro with Win 8.1 I don't hate it. Genie was my first email application back in '86' so I could communicate with my in-laws in Japan. I found it was cheaper than mail and much, much quicker. Had a ? TR80 and than a built 8088 9800 baud modem it was so cool to hear that baby crank up. My hand built quad core with 3 TB of storage is a far cry from my first 10 meg MFM HDD with 386 kb ram memory( that would mean a 256kb stick and a 128kb stick - I know it doesn't add up!) and I figured I would never fill it up. Next month I'll be putting in a RAID array server as I'm running out of room on my local drives. I think I can now listen to about 3 months of music without a repeat, much better than the radio stations. Sometimes I miss.... I have wood to turn! bye!

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I agree with Bill B. Win 7 is by far the best choice if you are on 98SE or XP. I have a couple of customers that have tried to go to Win 8 and have been very unhappy. I used to hate Win 8, but after getting a little Dell Venue 8 Pro with Win 8.1 I don't hate it. Genie was my first email application back in '86' so I could communicate with my in-laws in Japan. I found it was cheaper than mail and much, much quicker. Had a ? TR80 and than a built 8088 9800 baud modem it was so cool to hear that baby crank up. My hand built quad core with 3 TB of storage is a far cry from my first 10 meg MFM HDD with 386 kb ram memory( that would mean a 256kb stick and a 128kb stick - I know it doesn't add up!) and I figured I would never fill it up. Next month I'll be putting in a RAID array server as I'm running out of room on my local drives. I think I can now listen to about 3 months of music without a repeat, much better than the radio stations. Sometimes I miss.... I have wood to turn! bye!

Bill,

9800 baud was some kind of fast back then, wasn't it? I had the TR80 and then an 8088 also and then started building with a 286/CGA. Computer Shopper was the go to for everything if you remember it?

I remember back in about '90 building a SCSI system with a miro video capture board. Was doing training CD-ROMs for a buddy who taught Hazmat, HAZWOPR and a slew of other stuff. So had a small RAID array because at the time IDE wasn't fast enough to handle the video card's output. And this was 320 x 240 output!

But it's been a while for me and I see you're going to put together a music server. At the risk of getting run off since this is supposed to be a woodturning forum, have you decided on what drives and controller and so on? I'm seriously considering the same. I have a 1 TB NAS running off an old PC as a music server, but would like to add serious storage capacity and will be upgrading my PC for it at the same time. I'd like to do the same with movies but haven't done the math yet on that. I think a movie must run a few gigs, but still, at that, a terabyte would hold a generous amount of the ones I'd actually like to see more than a couple times.

 

[Bill Boehme]

.... My hand built quad core with 3 TB of storage is a far cry from my first 10 meg MFM HDD with 386 kb ram memory( that would mean a 256kb stick and a 128kb stick - I know it doesn't add up!) and I figured I would never fill it up. Next month I'll be putting in a RAID array server as I'm running out of room on my local drives......

I always build my own PC's, but before my current machine, it was mainly to save money and get a few notches better than average machine. However, things changed when the heavy number crunching in Photoshop Extended CS5 regularly brought my old PC to its knees. I was upgrading to CS6 and my PC wasn't even capable of running it. So, I set out to build the ultimate (for me at least) Photoshop machine. Anyway, it is the first really high performance workstation that I have built and the euphoria of getting real time results in Photoshop is soooo much better than going away for a few hours while the processor slogged through number crunching and pixel twiddling.

BTW, I probably won't run out of disk space for a while with 8 TB of HDD. I opted to not RAID the system this time because there really is no real need with more efficient designs these days. My other two older Win XP machines are RAIDed. SSD caching is faster and more reliable than RAID0. File backup is more efficient than RAID1 in terms of disk usage and speed. As far as network drives are concerned, that can slow down your system's performance if you have a lot of I/O or use scratch disks so I don't do that although I do have my own little local "cloud" for file sharing amongst our dozen or so time wasting devices.

 

[hockenbery]

Sooner or later they bring out OS360 with JCL On the tablets and life will be good!

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I always build my own PC's, but before my current machine, it was mainly to save money and get a few notches better than average machine. However, things changed when the heavy number crunching in Photoshop Extended CS5 regularly brought my old PC to its knees. I was upgrading to CS6 and my PC wasn't even capable of running it. So, I set out to build the ultimate (for me at least) Photoshop machine. Anyway, it is the first really high performance workstation that I have built and the euphoria of getting real time results in Photoshop is soooo much better than going away for a few hours while the processor slogged through number crunching and pixel twiddling.

BTW, I probably won't run out of disk space for a while with 8 TB of HDD. I opted to not RAID the system this time because there really is no real need with more efficient designs these days. My other two older Win XP machines are RAIDed. SSD caching is faster and more reliable than RAID0. File backup is more efficient than RAID1 in terms of disk usage and speed. As far as network drives are concerned, that can slow down your system's performance if you have a lot of I/O or use scratch disks so I don't do that although I do have my own little local "cloud" for file sharing amongst our dozen or so time wasting devices.

You must really have some PS skills. I spend a bit of time in an older version mainly working graphics for web content and company logos and such, but do the bulk of my work in CorelDraw - been using it since V2 or 3 I think. I do output a lot of vector work and don't do a lot of photo work (as my photos will attest).

No, you shouldn't run out of space for a while with 8TB. Famous words from someone: "nobody will ever need more than 10 megabytes of data storage". I think the same guy over at Digital that said nobody wanted a computer on their desk .

My Macbook has a 128GB SSD and yes, it is fast. But as to RAID, don't you worry about redundancy and file protection with that amount of data? As for me, I'm not much of a user anymore at home and the Mac is fine. Music server, web browsing, some content creation at work and the occasional backgammon game.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I just use external backup drives that run in the background when nothing else is needing the resources.

This thread is making me start to feel like a ... uh ... whachamacallitasarus.



Guess that I'll stay in my swamp where it's nice and safe from all them new creatures showing up around here.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I just use external backup drives that run in the background when nothing else is needing the resources.

This thread is making me start to feel like a ... uh ... whachamacallitasarus.

View attachment 7360

Guess that I'll stay in my swamp where it's nice and safe from all them new creatures showing up around here.

Ludditeadactyl?

 

[Bill Boehme]

Ludditeadactyl?

Probably.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

probably.

View attachment 7361

:d:d:d:d:d

 

[Steve Worcester]

<RANT> PrtScn... output to printer, line bird cage with hard copy of desktop</RANT>

I stayed with XP as long as I could and now run 7. Also have a Mac running Snow Leopard or some sort of feline.

Switch to Mavericks if you can

 

[Steve Worcester]

Was the NEXT the product Jobs came up wih after scullery ran him off from Apple or was that the Lisa?

I seem to recall that there's an Amiga club still going. I think I read in Wired or somewhere. And didn't they try a new launch in the past decade?

neXt was a Jobs project, never connected it until I looked at Wiki just Now. Would not have wanted to work for Jobs, berating is not a management style that works with me. Although, not entirely related, I met Wozniak at a Intel Developer Forum a few years ago and really like the guy.

Amiga has tried to resurface , but it is an total uphill battle without millions of bucks to fund developers who put out the applications that would carry the OS.

 

[Steve Worcester]

. Good one Bill!

Talk about progress, now we have a solution in software. You can use a copy of windows vista for that.

But I do remember the Sinclair. Didn't know anyone who had one.

We'll. now that we've established that we're dinosaurs...

or Microsoft Bob, lesser known, but relevant

 

[Steve Worcester]

... I have a couple of customers that have tried to go to Win 8 and have been very unhappy. I used to hate Win 8, but after getting a little Dell Venue 8 Pro with Win 8.1 I don't hate it.....

I have a Venue 11 and still hate it on it vs an iPad. Battery life is worse and the touch interface is annoying.
In this case it isn't Windows 8.x, it is the Dell.

 

[Steve Worcester]

I always build my own PC's, but before my current machine, it was mainly to save money and get a few notches better than average machine. However, things changed when the heavy number crunching in Photoshop Extended CS5 regularly brought my old PC to its knees. I was upgrading to CS6 and my PC wasn't even capable of running it. So, I set out to build the ultimate (for me at least) Photoshop machine. Anyway, it is the first really high performance workstation that I have built and the euphoria of getting real time results in Photoshop is soooo much better than going away for a few hours while the processor slogged through number crunching and pixel twiddling.

BTW, I probably won't run out of disk space for a while with 8 TB of HDD. I opted to not RAID the system this time because there really is no real need with more efficient designs these days. My other two older Win XP machines are RAIDed. SSD caching is faster and more reliable than RAID0. File backup is more efficient than RAID1 in terms of disk usage and speed. As far as network drives are concerned, that can slow down your system's performance if you have a lot of I/O or use scratch disks so I don't do that although I do have my own little local "cloud" for file sharing amongst our dozen or so time wasting devices.

I am fortunate enough I am kind of sponsored. I work for a very large Intel distributor and currently run a dual processor system for my everyday computers ( one generation back 2x 5600s) , and have the current dual processor E5s for my test computer. I test all kinds of i5/7s and the problem become more with efficiency than anything else. Having scratch and working drives on SSDs is awesome. Pricing has leveled out in lower capacities sub GB to >$1 GB. Consumer drives are getting way more reliable, but I still have in house backup servers. Even with RAID, drives still fall out. The photos are still irreplaceable as well as all the customer data.
it will be several years, but I the 1-2TB space you will see equality.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

or Microsoft Bob, lesser known, but relevant

Bob. The friendly side of Microsoft. What a hoot that was.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I am fortunate enough I am kind of sponsored. I work for a very large Intel distributor and currently run a dual processor system for my everyday computers ( one generation back 2x 5600s) , and have the current dual processor E5s for my test computer. I test all kinds of i5/7s and the problem become more with efficiency than anything else. Having scratch and working drives on SSDs is awesome. Pricing has leveled out in lower capacities sub GB to >$1 GB. Consumer drives are getting way more reliable, but I still have in house backup servers. Even with RAID, drives still fall out. The photos are still irreplaceable as well as all the customer data.
it will be several years, but I the 1-2TB space you will see equality.

Steve you obviously know far more than I in the technology sector. I'm a lifelong hobbyist, with some longtime IT management/admin in a small company. Like you, I absolutely have backup server for critical data.

 

[Robert Elliott]

Bob. The friendly side of Microsoft. What a hoot that was.

I just saw this thread and had to read it. It brings back many memories for me. My first computer job was changing tubes on a main-frame on weekends while in highschool. It was more fun than my part time job a night engineer for Chanel 4TV owned by the Detroit News. I had my FCC second phone license then. Yes I has a nerd in HS. I passed my FCC Firsh phone with Broadcast endorcement a weel before inlistingin the Air Force in 66. Then off to Naum only to be come a POW in 69.

I was built my first ham ( 40 meter) rig, with the help of my uncle at eleven when i got my Novist ticket. The first computers that I programed were Analog plug board based.

My first terminal was a model 30A teletype @75 baud tied to my Heath Kit Apachie and Mowhawk to connect to a Mars Net computer.

p.s. my first experiance in turning was watching my grand father working with his father, turning spindles on a home made lathe, making spindles for big chairs for the Detroit Masonic Temple in 54. Thats when I got the turning bug. My jib was to clean up the shaveings, which I was paid five cents, just enough to by a Pepsi with at the gas station on the way home.

Boy did you guys bring back some memories!

In regards to the Quote. Microsoft Bob. Do you remember Dr.Bob, who had a Q&A colum in the first years of the Microsotf technical newsletter to Tandy Repair centers or later targeted to developers ( Microsoft Journal) ?
Well that was me. Not to be confused with the PR department's Microsoft Bob!