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Final Finish

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I have experimented with several different finishes, depending on the use, the shape, etc. A question I have is when I create a piece that is simply for decoration, not to be used on a daily basis, I have used varying finishes of spray poly. Just tonight I finished a spalted maple bowl and finished it with a semi gloss poly. One thing I run into is not getting a silky smooth finish. I tend to give a few light coats and before the final coats give a light rub with 400 grit sand paper and of course blow it out before the final spray. Still slightly gritty (and I'm being picky, wife says I'm nuts). I have read the recent threads on the beale buffing system, don't really know the details, but got me thinking maybe I need a final step in my process whether I use a spray poly, friction polish, or beeswax. Please let me know your thoughts.
 

hockenbery

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A couple of things to think about.
1. You already recognize the importance of having a clean space to apply the finish.
2. Most domestic woods don't show scratches with 320 grit.
Most built up finishes show scratches with 600 and 800 grit.


A typical finish for me is sand to 320 put on a seal coat of clear thin shellac
Sand with 320
Coat of waterlox wipe off dry over night sand with 400
Coat of waterlox wipe off dry over night cut the shine with 0000 scotch brite and repeat 2-5 more times.

Then the the beal buff system
Two abrasives in sequence - tripoli and white diamond smooth the surface
Then wax to fills any scratches left by the white diamond.


Alternatively you can apply an oil finish to the 320 sanded piece and be done.
Nothing makes scratches in the oil. It will be a soft finish.

Odie's oil has gotten popular here because it is so easy to use and the owner is local.
Wipe on, rub in, let dry a couple hours, buff by hand with a soft cloth and that's it.
 
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Al pretty much covered everything, but I might add .........
if you get the Beall system, better to NOT get the one where the 3 wheels are combined on a single mount
get the one where you have a mounting stud, and can change the single wheels (or buffing balls)

will definitely give you better results and easier to work with.
and as a newbie also, I get consistent glossy finishes once going thru the 3 wheels/compounds, definitely worth a try.
you could also add a 4th process using Renaissance wax after the Carnuba, wipe on, let dry, and lightly buff with a clean wheel (I use the same type for Carnuba)
 
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Scott,
I use a tac rag between coats. Sand with 600 one time, tac rag. Coat again, sand with 2000 tac rag then polish or buff.
 

Bill Boehme

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I have experimented with several different finishes, depending on the use, the shape, etc. A question I have is when I create a piece that is simply for decoration, not to be used on a daily basis, I have used varying finishes of spray poly. Just tonight I finished a spalted maple bowl and finished it with a semi gloss poly. One thing I run into is not getting a silky smooth finish. I tend to give a few light coats and before the final coats give a light rub with 400 grit sand paper and of course blow it out before the final spray. Still slightly gritty (and I'm being picky, wife says I'm nuts). I have read the recent threads on the beale buffing system, don't really know the details, but got me thinking maybe I need a final step in my process whether I use a spray poly, friction polish, or beeswax. Please let me know your thoughts.

If you're using polyurethane, then you really need to wait at least a week and preferably two before doing any sanding. Poly cures by a chemical reaction that may appear to be hard after a day or so, but beneath the surface, it is still soft. If you sand too early, particles will become embedded in the finish. Subsequent coats on top of that aren't going to improve things much. Some types of polyurethane never get completely hard. The type used for floors and exterior polyurethane are designed to have a slight amount of flexibility -- especially marine polyurethane that is exposed to a wide range of temperatures that would cause a hard finish to crack.

I like polyurethane for furniture, but for most woodturnings, I think that there are many better options. One thing that I feel is important is to choose one type of finish for a piece and don't mix different things. The only exception might be to use dewaxed shellac on wood with a high resin content before applying a final film finish. However, a better option might be no finish at all for very resinous wood.
 
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Thanks everyone for the replies and suggestions. I think my first problem is not giving the piece proper time to dry before sanding and repeating. I'm also going to work with other finishers that I have, a bit more. I see the pro's on here with their finished products and I can't seem to get that final finish, that beautiful mirror finish.....and that is why I am a newbie. Going to also investigate the Bealle system. Thanks again to all of you. Have a fantastic week.
 

Bill Boehme

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I use a product called elbow grease obtained locally. Lots of elbow grease and lots of very fine sandpaper to make certain that the wood is completely smooth and scratch free before even thinking about applying a finish. Many people stop at 320 or 400 grit, but I continue up in grits until the wood shines. My reason is simple -- you can't see small scratches in the wood at 400 grit or 600 grit, maybe a little at 800 grit. All of these super fine grits are done strictly by hand in random patterns while continuously moving the piece around. I spend a lot more hours doing this than people with good sense would ever consider doing, but it's just my particular quirk about getting flawless finishes. Every so often, I actually succeed. Other times, I close enough for Government work.

Of course, I only do that when going for a gloss finish because the glossier the finish, the more any mistakes or careless sanding will be evident. BTW, the sanding with very high grits goes even higher when leveling and polishing the finish -- up to 12,000 grit and then a fine polish like Novus 2 applied with a cotton swab. I top that off with Johnson's paste wax applied and buffed with a microfiber cloth. Never use a paper towel, it's worse than sandpaper.
 
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I use a product called elbow grease obtained locally. Lots of elbow grease and lots of very fine sandpaper to make certain that the wood is completely smooth and scratch free before even thinking about applying a finish. Many people stop at 320 or 400 grit, but I continue up in grits until the wood shines. My reason is simple -- you can't see small scratches in the wood at 400 grit or 600 grit, maybe a little at 800 grit. All of these super fine grits are done strictly by hand in random patterns while continuously moving the piece around. I spend a lot more hours doing this than people with good sense would ever consider doing, but it's just my particular quirk about getting flawless finishes. Every so often, I actually succeed. Other times, I close enough for Government work.

Of course, I only do that when going for a gloss finish because the glossier the finish, the more any mistakes or careless sanding will be evident. BTW, the sanding with very high grits goes even higher when leveling and polishing the finish -- up to 12,000 grit and then a fine polish like Novus 2 applied with a cotton swab. I top that off with Johnson's paste wax applied and buffed with a microfiber cloth. Never use a paper towel, it's worse than sandpaper.

Bill, Not trying to nitpick, but there is no such thing as scratch free, only finer sets of scratches. Anything over 400 on wood is overkill and may reduce the adherence of some finishes (mainly oil). For more info on finish and preparation read Flexnor's book on finishing, it is an excellent reference on all types of finish.
 
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Scott,
I second the short but spot on comment from Bill Weaver. I've found I get a much better finish with poly if I sand between each coat rather than waiting until the last coat. Blowing off the dust puts junk in the air which will then land on my drying finish, so I also use a tack cloth. I never got a finish I was happy with using spray poly and stick with the wipe on kind. Maybe that's just me and my cool basement shop.
 
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Beall system

Thanks everyone for the replies and suggestions. I think my first problem is not giving the piece proper time to dry before sanding and repeating. I'm also going to work with other finishers that I have, a bit more. I see the pro's on here with their finished products and I can't seem to get that final finish, that beautiful mirror finish.....and that is why I am a newbie. Going to also investigate the Bealle system. Thanks again to all of you. Have a fantastic week.


Scott,

I just bought the Beall system. Makes for the kind of beautimus finishes you see on these forums. Far easier than the elbow grease and a better finish than the elbow grease unless it is blended with a generous amount of patience. I have searched high and low, locally, on the net, everywhere, and I can't find anyone selling patience. I suspect that elbow grease and patience gives the ultimate finish, without it I'm going to use the Beall.

I do have a very little bit of patience around here somewhere, I might try going to a hand finish after using the Beall system sometime. Hate to use up all my patience though, I try to save it for children and animals.

Hu
 
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Scott,

I just bought the Beall system. Makes for the kind of beautimus finishes you see on these forums. Far easier than the elbow grease and a better finish than the elbow grease unless it is blended with a generous amount of patience. I have searched high and low, locally, on the net, everywhere, and I can't find anyone selling patience. I suspect that elbow grease and patience gives the ultimate finish, without it I'm going to use the Beall.

I do have a very little bit of patience around here somewhere, I might try going to a hand finish after using the Beall system sometime. Hate to use up all my patience though, I try to save it for children and animals.

Hu

Hu
Thanks for the heads up on the Beall System. I think I will give that a try. Did you get the setup with the 3 on one rod or the kind where you mount each individually as you use them. Thanks again.
 
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the individual ones

Hu
Thanks for the heads up on the Beall System. I think I will give that a try. Did you get the setup with the 3 on one rod or the kind where you mount each individually as you use them. Thanks again.


Scott,

The three on one rod type might work for pens and small objects, bigger stuff you need more room. Lots of options in disks and bobs for the single mount units too. I haven't decided what I am going to spin them with yet so I just got the lathe adapter to spin the buffs for now. I cover the ways and that works great. I have assorted single and dual shaft motors, all in storage a ways away though.

I do think I'll get the balls to buff the inside of smaller stuff soon, broke a nice bowl when it grabbed a little and didn't bounce too well. Need to cover all the concrete in my work area, I'm a bit butter fingered anyway.

Hu
 
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Bill Boehme

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Bill, Not trying to nitpick, but there is no such thing as scratch free, only finer sets of scratches. Anything over 400 on wood is overkill and may reduce the adherence of some finishes (mainly oil). For more info on finish and preparation read Flexnor's book on finishing, it is an excellent reference on all types of finish.

Yes, scratch-free is a misnomer, but since our eyes have a resolution capability on the order of a milliradian, scratches smaller than that would hardly be discernible from something that truly is free of scratches. And considering scratches that are finer than things at the cellular level probably would not be discernible either. As I mentioned in my post, I only go to that extreme for high gloss film finishes and for an oil finish, 400 grit is more than adequate. I have several books on finishing by Bob Flexner, Jeff Jewitt, and Michael Dresdner. Those three experts have also written regular columns in Fine Woodworking and American Woodworker.

In my opinion the way that sanding is done is more significant that the grit. High speed sanding with fine grits can basically cook the resins in the wood and have detrimental effects to the finish. Hand sanding off the lathe has not been a problem with the finishes that I use which is mainly spray lacquer.
 
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one of the other students in my Jimmy Clewes class just referred me to Bob Flexner finishing book ......
is it reliable and worthwhile info? or should I be looking at another author?

to OP, sorry to deviate from your original thread ................
 
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Finish authors

one of the other students in my Jimmy Clewes class just referred me to Bob Flexner finishing book ......
is it reliable and worthwhile info? or should I be looking at another author?

to OP, sorry to deviate from your original thread ................

Flexner wrote the finish bible and the others Bill mentioned also wrote some very good books. Flexner has a column in Popular Woodworking also. I have used his book as a constant reference to answer questions on finishes and finishing. He has a section in the book on finishing myths and it is very interesting. Also a good source of information on shellac. I do not use much lacquer, but he also has info on it in the book. Oh , by the way for us guys it has pictures.
 
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thanks for the reply, just found and ordered thru amazon
the more reliable learning material the better
 

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If you look up Michael Dresdner, you will find that he has a blog with a large repository of useful information. He stopped updating his blog a couple years ago, but has the content available as a source of good information. I used to really enjoy his column in FWW called, "Just Finishing".
 
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