• Beware of Counterfeit Woodturning Tools (click here for details)
  • Johnathan Silwones is starting a new AAW chapter, Southern Alleghenies Woodturners, in Johnstown, PA. (click here for details)
  • Congratulations to Paul May for "Checkerboard (ver 3.0)" being selected as Turning of the Week for March 25, 2024 (click here for details)
  • Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.

Continuation of discussion about faceplates and waste blocks.....(if there is any!)

odie

TOTW Team
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
7,076
Likes
9,487
Location
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
David......

I don't know if this would be a concern for you, but when I converted my Woodfast lathe to variable speed, I specifically intended to move the controls away from their location below the headstock. My reason for this was that I kept turning off the lathe accidentally with my body. Since I do all my final turning (except the foot) with the bowl mounted to a waste block and faceplate, it is necessary to do the outside of the bowl from the headstock side. In order to get a stable, and finely executed cut on that side, I steady the motion of the tool by leaning on the lathe with my arms and body.

Since faceplates and wasteblocks are not the current trend in turning, this may not make much difference to very many turners these days......

ooc

Yes we are in the minority. I've been using a wasteblock and screwchuck (Glaser) for a lot of years. Since long before the 4-jaw chuck now used by most turners was available. I completely finish the vessel including applying a finish before parting it off and finishing the base.

I do use a 4-jaw chuck at times but usually with a wasteblock. It's nice to not have that knuckle busting thing in the way.

For large or deep pieces a faceplate is the most secure fastening.

There are advantages to using faceplates, instead of a chuck.

I also use mostly screw center faceplates. I have ten screw center faceplates, and once mounted, are kept attached until the bowl is finished. Since there is no re-mount, there is no variance with centering, like when remounting with a chuck.

You cannot use a waste block on an unseasoned bowl blank.....no way to make the glue stick. When mounting to the top of the bowl interior, there is no problem with using a faceplate. For mounting to the base of the bowl, you could use screws directly into the object wood, where the bowl foot would be, but unless you want to deal with screw holes, or waste some overall height, there isn't much alternative to a chuck. I always use chucks mounted on a tenon to rough a bowl interior to general shape, prior to seasoning. Once the seasoning is completed, it's nothing but faceplates mounted to a wasteblock for me!

Wally, you did mention chucks are dangerous, because of the jaw edges.......that's a very important point to consider. Safety is a good reason to consider, here.

Another distinct advantage to waste blocks and faceplates, it the waste block can be trimmed to the exact size of the foot. The advantages of this for sanding purposes can only be fully realized until it's tried.

A disadvantage to using waste blocks/faceplates, is you have to learn a whole new technique for dealing with cutting, shaping, and sanding the bowl when you have to work between the headstock and work piece. From my experience, there is NOTHING that can't be done with a high level of quality end results, but it does take some determination.

For me, I wouldn't think of using a chuck for final turning. There are advantages and disadvantages for both faceplates and chucks......but, when the pros and cons are contemplated with a little experience......faceplates are the best option.

As I see it, new turners are turned away from faceplates because chucks have the "momentum"......and the herd always follows! Because of this, so many of the newer turners will never know the why faceplates/wasteblocks are such an appealing option.

For me, all of this is true......but, I recognize that others have their point of view, as well......

More later........

ooc
 
Last edited:

john lucas

AAW Forum Expert
Joined
Apr 26, 2004
Messages
8,321
Likes
3,576
Location
Cookeville, TN
I like faceplates although I will admit that I tend to use my chucks an awful lot. To me faceplates have advantages and dissadvantage depending on what you do. When I first started turning I used nothing but faceplates since chucks hadn't really come out and when they did they were out of my budget.
I used to start a bowl between centers with the top toward the headstock. Then I would turn a tenon on the bottom. For small bowls I would make the tenon just a hair smaller than my waste block. Then I would turn a very small rebate in the wasteblock to exactly fit the tenon. This allowed me to align them perfectly and they didn't shift when I put in the screws.
For larger bowls I would turn a slight rebate in the bowl tenon and make my wasteblock fit inside that.
When I needed to glue the wood directly to the wasteblock I found that Polyeurethane glue would stick to wet wood so I used that. At least that's what I remember it's been a long time since I've done that.
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
5,436
Likes
2,792
Location
Eugene, OR
I tried waste blocks a few times and discarded the idea. Mostly, they just didn't seem efficient.

One reason some will use them is they say it saves wood depth. Well, for a thin piece that you want to make a platter out of, it may save a tiny bit for that extra depth, but for standard bowls, not much. When first learning to make a recess, I would make them almost 1/4 inch or maybe even 3/8 inch deep. After learning what worked, and what didn't work, I now am mostly around 1/8 to maybe 3/16 at most deep.

Turning from one position (waste block mounted towards the headstock) will give you a more perfectly round bowl. It is more accurate than turning on a chuck and then reversing. Well, unless you are trying to turn less than 1/8 inch thin, most of the time, you will not be able to see the difference. I love the sliding headstock. I can slide it to the end of the lathe, and stand straight up to turn the outside of the bowl. No leaning over the lathe, no extending my arms out to keep from bending over. Easy access because there is no headstock in the way. With some careful cutting on my recess (or tenon if you use them), when I reverse, most of the time there is maybe 1/16 inch of run out on a bowl 14 inch or so diameter. This means +/- 1/16 of an inch. If you are trying to turn thin, a shear scrape/cut on the outside of the bowl can bring it back to almost perfect.

I guess the main reason for advocating chucks over face plates and waste blocks is efficiency. Drill a recess in the top with a big forstner bit, expand into the recess with your chuck, apply tailstock, turn the outside, reverse and remount with a turned recess, and turn the inside. I never have to change the chuck, and the chuck never has to come off the lathe. No drill/screw gun, screws, or face plate to put off and on. No glue ups, no waiting over night for glue to dry. No having to make perfectly flat surfaces for making sure you get a good glue joint.

The only reason I would suggest to a turner to use the face plate and waste blocks and face plate method is if they can not afford a chuck yet. Any production turner will have a bunch (Si jeffe, we have a plethora of guns!) of chucks.

robo hippy
 

hockenbery

Forum MVP
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
8,592
Likes
4,888
Location
Lakeland, Florida
Website
www.hockenberywoodturning.com
I use faceplates for most of the hollow forms I hollow through the face grain.

Two big advantages.
1. Face plate holds better with less vibration than a chuck
2. I can work the bottom of the vessel right up to the tenon that olds the screws. Much closer Thani can work using a chuck?
Also when hollowing i can follow the laser further around the bottom of the vessel.

I do forms 10-13" diameter 6-12" high on a 3" faceplate using 1 1/4 #12 screws
I make the tenon for the screws 4" diameter and 1 1/2 long with a slightly concave face,
I put a pencil circle on the face. The edge of the faceplate fits tightly along the face of the concave.

The forms in the photo is typical of ones turn on a faceplates. These are all maple.
 

Attachments

  • image-1353787164.jpg
    image-1353787164.jpg
    378.9 KB · Views: 52
  • image-2472509023.jpg
    image-2472509023.jpg
    374 KB · Views: 47
  • image-3244701693.jpg
    image-3244701693.jpg
    491.6 KB · Views: 46
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
2,557
Likes
25
Location
Annandale, New Jersey
I do my hollowforms on faceplates only. As I turn mostly end grain, I rough an end section of at least 2" by 1" wider than the faceplate. Having rounded the piece between centers, I then part a small lip in the end to perfectly match the diameter of the plate to be used. The plate is attached with 1-3/4" screws and put back on the spindle and the tail stock is engaged. I rarely have to re-true the roughed cylinder.

I will then proceed to establish the shape and hollow it. I NEVER use a scroll chuck for hollowing. In my shop, scroll chucks are only for bowl turning
 

odie

TOTW Team
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
7,076
Likes
9,487
Location
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
I tried waste blocks a few times and discarded the idea.

The only reason I would suggest to a turner to use the face plate and waste blocks and face plate method is if they can not afford a chuck yet. Any production turner will have a bunch (Si jeffe, we have a plethora of guns!) of chucks.

robo hippy

The forms in the photo is typical of ones turn on a faceplates. These are all maple.



Did you do those hollow forms, Al? Are they examples of your work?

I don't think I've ever seen your work before, and neither have I seen any of Robo Hippy's work, either.....imagine that!

One thing I'd like to see more of, are examples of one's work when frequently giving advice on the forum. It really does put into perspective the content of the message with the results that person achieves using those methods.

Robo.......At least you've tried faceplates. If I'm not mistaken, most of the newer turners jump right into chucks, as you have done, because that's the advice given by "the herd". Not that that's all bad, but those proficient in methods of a by-gone era seem to be a little underrepresented in the total scope of woodturning.

John......It's good to see photos of your works, and therefore have the ability to base my processing of the information you provide by applying that to the visible results you are achieving. From the start, I've tried to make it clear that my input to the thread, and how someone else will use, or not use that information, depends entirely on their opinion, and NOT mine. With that in mind, and since your directions in woodturning appears to be entirely different than mine......your thoughts make a more discernible impression on the processing of that information, because the input is much more complete. (hope that made some sense! :D)

It's my belief that the positive advantages of faceplates, are well worth the effort to become proficient in their use. (Not in all cases, of course, but when their advantages can be used to their potential......yes.) When that proficiency is achieved, ONLY then can an individual turner realize the full scope of the applicable possibilities as it will apply to their own personal goals.

I currently have three Stronghold chucks......down from a total of six, including two Vicmarcs, and an original Nova. (sold the latter three)

Am very interested in more input from those who concentrate on using faceplates (both traditional and center screw varieties)......even though those who do, seem to be an endangered species! :eek:

ooc
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
3,540
Likes
15
Faceplates and waste blocks are great with dry wood. Problem is, those who TDT to take advantage of an abundant supply can't really employ them throughout the process. To take best advantage of a faceplate, you need it perpendicular to the axis of rotation and planar, so as not to tilt while tightening. Meet those conditions green, and they're gone when cured. I used to scribe the warped base after curing, using a homemade L gauge with a pencil, then use the block plane to flatten to the line. Also used holesaws and the drillpress to do the same, making a 1/8 cut and planing down. Then the blocks would mount within reason, and I'd lose less height/width.

Got a Masterchuck in the late70s/early 80s and never looked back. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Masterchuck.jpg Wasn't the best, but it had a pin chuck as one setup, so I could reference everything to the axis of rotation, the best way to assure alignment before and after the curing. Cursed his jaw design heartily on many occasions, because the slightest bit of misalignment or fleck of crud pitched the bowl. Guess that's where my phobia of standing in the "zone" came from.

Picked up the scroll chuck when they were both new and expensive, because I was turning for tuition at the time, and he saved a LOT of it. I use a recess because it also references the axis of rotation, and when I reverse, I will not accept runout that I can see. If there is any, I dismount and clear whatever shaving is in the mortise or tighten whatever jaw is giving me a loose tenon. Since I do the recess to completion before reversing, no excuse for losing any diameter or height to runout.

I have a few faceplates, they work as bases for jam chucking when I need it, or occasional long-grain turnings. Otherwise, not worth the fiddle.
 

odie

TOTW Team
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
7,076
Likes
9,487
Location
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
When I needed to glue the wood directly to the wasteblock I found that Polyeurethane glue would stick to wet wood so I used that. At least that's what I remember it's been a long time since I've done that.

If anyone is currently using this, or any kind of glue to secure wasteblocks to unseasoned wood, let's hear of your experiences with it, please.

There are times when I could use this, if it works.......but, I have my doubts that any glue will be very successful. If you could get it to stick with any degree of strength, wet unseasoned wood is going to warp through the seasoning process, and that would be a difficult aspect to overcome using kiln dried waste blocks.......:confused:

ooc
 
Last edited:

john lucas

AAW Forum Expert
Joined
Apr 26, 2004
Messages
8,321
Likes
3,576
Location
Cookeville, TN
Odie I'll try it again in a week or so. I'm a little short on time this week. Also I don't have Polyeurethane glue right now. I used to use it but with the exception of that one use I haven't found anything it will do that epoxy or yellow glue won't do better and they are much easier to clean up. I will do a test of green wood to dry with epoxy and poly next week.
I use faceplates with large waste blocks all the time to either hot glue off center work or jam chucks and other odd hard to hold pieces.
Another reason to use faceplates is they are cheap. I make my own by welding large nuts to large washers. I used to leave them on the bowls because I made a dozen of them. Now they stay on my large wasteblocks.
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
2,557
Likes
25
Location
Annandale, New Jersey
Got rid of Gorilla (polyurethane) glue for the very reason I would never use it on wood to be turned - glue joint failure. Had more than one urethane glue-up fail on dry wood just from seasonal movement. Gluing wet wood and then stressing the wet/dry joint on a lathe sounds like a particularly (perhaps "spectacularly") bad idea.

When I turned bowls, I always started them between centers with the pith line on the drive spur. This allowed me to balance the grain on the finished form by adjusting the position of the tail center. Slapping on a face plate (with or without a block) to start roughing the bowl would prevent such adjustments, although I'll confess I've never wanted to turn a bowl from dry wood; platters, yes, bowls, no.

Were I attempting to glue wet wood, I think I would first soak the roughened gluing surface with DNA as the alcohol will pull the surface moisture with it when it evaporates, and then quickly apply a 2-part glue like marine Resorcinol or (perhaps) a good 30-minute epoxy, followed by at least 24 hours for a solid cure before "use." YMMV

PS: There are gun-type construction adhesives that are made for use on wet wood. Care should be taken to read directions for cure and joint stress times and limitations, and a call to the manufacturer's customer service would probably be an even better idea.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
3,540
Likes
15
Can't use glues which "dry" like the standard white and beige woodworkers' glue (PVA) for damp wood, you have to use those which cure chemically. Polyurethane is a glue which likes water to develop its cure, so it seems a natural choice. It's brittle, though, like standard CA, which also likes water. Either the wood will give or the glue joint as things move, unless you allow for movement, as all experienced woodworkers know.

For a waste block, this would involve relieving with some saw kerfs along the grain. Space about a half inch apart, go about halfway through the block. When you glue the flattened damp blank to it, orient it as you have oriented the glue block. Since movement on the long grain is virtually nil, no problem in that direction. Movement across will be taken up in the kerfs. Figure a generous 8% for shrinkage from the 30% FSP to a good human-friendly 10%, and you may have up to a quarter inch in five to compensate for, and 3/4 in kerf gaps to do it. Reality will probably be a bit less.

It'll still smile or frown depending on your bowl orientation, so you will need to flatten before remounting to the faceplate after curing. Don't bother trying to reuse the old screw holes. Deliberately avoid them, because the screws will try to dive into the old ones and be loose.

Mark - an acetone wipe to get the oil off the surface of certain woods is often recommended before gluing. IF the laws of physical chemistry were to be repealed, acetone or MEK - lacquer thinner - would evaporate much faster than meth/ethanol. Since it's not likely this will happen, wipe to get the oil off the surface to be glued, then quickly glue, before more oil can make its way to the surface and weaken the bond.
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
5,436
Likes
2,792
Location
Eugene, OR
Bowls and Hollow forms, two different beasties. With bowls, I can not justify using a waste block/face plate. With Hollow forms, there is good reason to use a face plate or a chuck. Mostly it is a size thing. Hollow forms tend to be long off the headstock, and will want to vibrate more, and the longer lever will require a much stronger grip. You would have to have large diameter jaws, and probably a steady rest. With a face plate, if you are screwing into end grain, you do not get a good grip as you are splitting the fiber rather than cutting through it. You should 'toe nail' as the old framers would say, which means screwing in at an angle rather than straight. Much better/secure grip. You will waste more wood on the bottom with screws. You can do it with a chuck, but have to plan for the bottom.You can keep a large diameter tenon and make a parting line so you can work all the way to the bottom, which will waste about as much wood as a face plate. Or, you can make a slightly smaller tenon so that the form over laps the chuck jaws, and then turn all the way to the bottom, but stability issues come into play. The wider the base, the better the support. The wider the piece, the more stress there is on the joint/mounting point. The longer the piece, the more stress there is at the joint/mounting point. There are limits.

I would never use glue for any joint that I want to hold with wet wood. Yes, it can be done and you can get away with it, but I never consider that joint to be secure. Urethane glue does not fill gaps with anything but bubbles. It does not take shock loads well, and will fail. I called Franklin Glues once and asked the 'old timer' there about it. He said they made laminated bat blanks using Titebond and urethane glues. The urethane delaminated every single time. Also, a friend shipped some expresso tampers to Japan. While at altitude, the bubbles expanded and every single one lost the tamper part which was Lignum glued to another exotic wood. CA glue is a little better. It does fill gaps, but I still don't trust it. Like urethane glue, it does not take shock loads. If I do use it, I will not use accelerators. They tend to weaken the bond. I also let it sit at least over night. When sealed on the inside, that part will take 24 hours or more to cure as it needs air to set up.

robo hippy
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
2,557
Likes
25
Location
Annandale, New Jersey
Mark - an acetone wipe to get the oil off the surface of certain woods is often recommended before gluing. IF the laws of physical chemistry were to be repealed, acetone or MEK - lacquer thinner - would evaporate much faster than meth/ethanol. Since it's not likely this will happen, wipe to get the oil off the surface to be glued, then quickly glue, before more oil can make its way to the surface and weaken the bond.

The issue here was "wet" not "oily" wood, Michael. As you well know, water and ethanol/methanol are miscible and form as near to a perfect solution as was known when I last looked. MEK etm. do dry faster, but they're not all that friendly with water. Thus, as the alcohol dries on the wet to-be-glued surface, it will tend to dry the exposed fibers making them a bit more likely for glue to grip and set. Acetone's fine for those nice dry-but-oily exotics and tropicals.

[No, I'm not trying to reopen the alcohol drying debate!]
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
578
Likes
7
Location
Mesa, Arizona
Odie,

If you can, view Lyle Jamieson's video, Bowl Basics the Easy Way. He persuasively argues that bowls should be started between centers and, once the initial roughing is complete, should be mounted on the lathe using a faceplate/glue block. In the video, he uses CA glue to attach the glue block to the wet blank.

Allow me to summarize Lyle's argument into two points:

  • The bowl blank should be started between centers because it maximizes the turner's freedom to balance the grain and to make other changes to the way the blank is oriented on the lathe. These types of changes are very difficult to make if you start by mounting the blank with a screw chuck, face plate, or four jaw chuck.
  • A faceplate/glue block is a more secure method of holding the work than using a scroll chuck. More secure translates into less vibration and greater safety.
While I believe everything Lyle has to say, I still turn most of my bowls using one of my chucks. It's a trade off of time and convenience in exchange for a slight decrease in security of the hold. If I had a bunch of Don Pencil's faceplates all set up with glue blocks already mounted and ready to go, it would only take a minute or two to attach the faceplate to the rough turned blank. I do have a bunch of Don's faceplates (highly recommended, by the way), but most of them have other projects mounted to them. So, I use my chucks. And, if I were a production turner like Robo Hippy, I'd use nothing but chucks. An extra minute or two per item adds up when you're turning for profit. When it's a hobby, the extra time's not that big a deal.

I wish someone had taught me how to properly use faceplates before I invested a ton of money in chucks. I think most new turners would benefit from such instruction. Even if (when) the new turner decides to buy a chuck, I think the turner will continue to benefit from the knowledge gained from using faceplates. There are lots of ways to hold your work on the lathe. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. Knowing these different methods, and having the freedom to choose which best serves in a particular instance, makes a turners job more enjoyable.
 
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
3,540
Likes
15
The issue here was "wet" not "oily" wood, Michael. As you well know, water and ethanol/methanol are miscible and form as near to a perfect solution as was known when I last looked. MEK etm. do dry faster, but they're not all that friendly with water. Thus, as the alcohol dries on the wet to-be-glued surface, it will tend to dry the exposed fibers making them a bit more likely for glue to grip and set. Acetone's fine for those nice dry-but-oily exotics and tropicals.

[No, I'm not trying to reopen the alcohol drying debate!]

Nope, they don't form a solution, they form a mixture. Thus the term "miscibility". Acetone, another semi-polar solvent, is also miscible in water, as are low molecular weight ketones. IF there was any truth to "drawing water" out of the wood, they would do a job than alcohol, as I said.

Acetone is, BTW used in a series of soaks to saturate and flash dry formerly submerged wood. Seems to flash out so fast the cells don't collapse. Takes a lot of time and soaks to wash the water out, but worth it in that application.
 

hockenbery

Forum MVP
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
8,592
Likes
4,888
Location
Lakeland, Florida
Website
www.hockenberywoodturning.com
If anyone is currently using this, or any kind of glue to secure wasteblocks to unseasoned wood, let's hear of your experiences with it, please.

There are times when I could use this, if it works.......but, I have my doubts that any glue will be very successful. If you could get it to stick with any degree of strength, wet unseasoned wood is going to warp through the seasoning process, and that would be a difficult aspect to overcome using kiln dried waste blocks.......:confused:

ooc

Odie
I have used thick CA for wet wood glue blocks quite successfully. My experience has all been with lots of shallow natural edge bowls.

CA on the bowl, accelerator on the glue block, turn fairly quickly, put a flat chisel on the glue line and tap, usually breaks the glue apart, turn the glue off the glue block And it will last for a 50 to 100 bowls. Also the glue block with a pad lets you reverse turn the bottom of the bowl.

I turn the bowl between centers and make a shallow concave slightly larger diameter than the 3" dia glue block which has slight concave
I have a small hole through the cent of the glue block and make a small center hole in the bowl blank.
I use a small rod or straight coat hanger wire to line up the glue lock and bowl center And draw a pencil line around the glue block.
Two beads of thick CA on the bowl inside the pencil line. Spray accelerator on the glue Block align with the rod and twist the glue lock as it makes in contact.
This twist is critical as it spreads the glue into the conclaves into an inch wide joining surface. Without the twist the glue will harden in the beads with only a tiny surface contacting the glue lock and the joint will fail.

With a little practice this is just as fast as working with a chuck. This presume you work fast and don't leave the bowl on the block for more than an hour.
Most of these Shallow bowls take less than 15 minutes on the glue block.

I use a chuck with almost all the bowls I do using the tenon grip. On these shallow natural edge bowls I start with blanks from 5-6" limbs cut in half 8-9" long.
Don't want to give up the wood For a tenon.

Have fun
Al
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
2,557
Likes
25
Location
Annandale, New Jersey
Nope, they don't form a solution, they form a mixture.

Actually, I stand corrected. Ethanol and water form an azeotrope rather than a solution, with a boiling point at 78C. MEK does also, but with a slightly higher b.p. Acetone, however, does not form an azeotrope with water.

Personally, I'll take a little ethanol in the shop air rather than MEK fumes, so I'll stick with my opinion of using a bit of alcohol to flash-dry a wet wood surface.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
2,557
Likes
25
Location
Annandale, New Jersey
I'm just going to drink a little alcohol. You guys have made my head hurt. :)

Gotta watch it, John. New study out says those of us guys reaching the age of retirement can safely only have 1 drink day (used to be 2).

I don't like it when some weenie scientist starts messin' with my beer ration!!

:D
 
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
578
Likes
7
Location
Mesa, Arizona
Gotta watch it, John. New study out says those of us guys reaching the age of retirement can safely only have 1 drink day (used to be 2).

I don't like it when some weenie scientist starts messin' with my beer ration!!

:D

That's okay, Mark. You can have my beer ration. I won't be using it.
 
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
3,540
Likes
15
Actually, I stand corrected. Ethanol and water form an azeotrope rather than a solution, with a boiling point at 78C. MEK does also, but with a slightly higher b.p. Acetone, however, does not form an azeotrope with water.

Personally, I'll take a little ethanol in the shop air rather than MEK fumes, so I'll stick with my opinion of using a bit of alcohol to flash-dry a wet wood surface.

So you're adding water with ethanol, right? azeotrope is ~95-5%. Liquid is hygroscopic, as well.

Ennyhoo, before you choose based on toxicity and fumes, take a look at what the denatured alcohol contains, and what it'll do. http://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/14280.htm Most off-the shelf stuff runs around 40% methanol. No free lunch.

The more effective agent, acetone looks like this. http://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/00140.htm

Note the absence of the Poison warning?
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
2,557
Likes
25
Location
Annandale, New Jersey
So you're adding water with ethanol, right? azeotrope is ~95-5%. Liquid is hygroscopic, as well.

Ennyhoo, before you choose based on toxicity and fumes, take a look at what the denatured alcohol contains, and what it'll do. http://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/14280.htm Most off-the shelf stuff runs around 40% methanol. No free lunch.

The more effective agent, acetone looks like this. http://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/00140.htm

Note the absence of the Poison warning?

40%? Some are higher than that. That's specifically why I only use Parks DNA. No more than 10% methanol and 10% of Other Nasty Stuff added to the ethanol.

My primary use is in working with shellac and uncured epoxy, and I vent the space anyway. Methanol does dissolve shellac faster than does ethanol, but I'm never in that much of a rush.
 
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
384
Likes
8
I like beer, so no one can have my ration and I'm a lightweight, so I don't need anyone else's ration ...

As for faceplates and glue blocks, I have found that method to be the fastest, most efficient way to mount wet (or dry) wood to the lathe for making a bowl. No chucking, re-chucking, simply glue the turning blank to the glue block using medium or thick CA, turn the bowl with a rounded bottom, part off, hand-sand a bit, and you're done. Or, if you want to turn the bottom other than rounded, then do so by re-mounting, which can be accomplished quickly in a variety of different ways.

You can avoid using CA accelerator by slightly moistening the glue block, applying CA to the turning blank, then pressing together. CA cures with the addition of heat and moisture, which is why it likes to glue your skin together and also why CA works well with green wood. (And CA also works well to glue endgrain to sidegrain for turning a cylinder, assuming you start with a good glue joint.)

Admittedly, though, if not taught the faceplate/glue-block method to begin with and you've used the chucking method, you'll probably find it frustrating to use a faceplate and glue block. And really, both methods work well, they're just different.

Betty Scarpino, editor, AW
 
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
3,540
Likes
15
As for faceplates and glue blocks, I have found that method to be the fastest, most efficient way to mount wet (or dry) wood to the lathe for making a bowl. No chucking, re-chucking, simply glue the turning blank to the glue block using medium or thick CA,

Using the "flexible" stuff, or just the medium / thick for gap filling?

I see no one has mentioned the hot glue method yet. That one I did use before I got my first chuck. Success was mostly a case of getting the harder, box-making grade, which is not easy to peel off like the hobby stuff.

Then again, I don't think I even read about CA back in those days.
 
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
384
Likes
8
I've never tried the flexible CA glue and have mostly used medium thickness.

Betty Scarpino, editor, AW
 

Bill Boehme

Administrator
Staff member
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Messages
12,886
Likes
5,169
Location
Dalworthington Gardens, TX
Website
pbase.com
Gotta watch it, John. New study out says those of us guys reaching the age of retirement can safely only have 1 drink day (used to be 2).

I don't like it when some weenie scientist starts messin' with my beer ration!!

:D

They didn't say how large the ration might be -- they only said "one". In the right (or wrong) company, a pitcher may be perceived as a perfectly acceptable drinking mug. Bottoms up.

And, John, I know ... you guys get your corn from a jar.
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Messages
160
Likes
0
Location
Mosgiel New Zealand
I use air freshner as an exlerater as its a lot cheaper and works just as well so long as you dont flood it on,But mostly use the jaws and if the block is big i use the 110mm ones. I brew my own spirts John but can give the same headack as desrcibed

Ian
 
Last edited:

odie

TOTW Team
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
7,076
Likes
9,487
Location
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Odie = non drinker

.......just a lathe fanatic to the max! :D

(What anyone else does, is their business.......)

======================================

One thing that is great about multiple faceplates, is you can stop at anytime, and go on to other things. As I said previously, when a remount isn't necessary, there is no loss of alignment, or concentricity.......this may not mean all that much to some turners, but for me, it's an absolute necessity for the quality control I wish to achieve. Multiple faceplates make that an effortless quest in this regard.

I've found this exceptionally beneficial, because you never know what's in the interior of a piece of wood......and, seasoning isn't an exact science. I've given up on using instant CA and similar adhesives. They are not as good, or as strong as using epoxy and/or basic Titebond for bonding, repairs, filling and build-up in voids and cracks. The ONLY advantage to CA, is the time element, but that doesn't overcome their inherent disadvantages.

I've ALWAYS got several projects going on at any one time, so it makes little difference to me if I stop what I'm doing and use some Titebond, or epoxy where necessary........

ooc
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
5,436
Likes
2,792
Location
Eugene, OR
Well, when I am turning wood boxes, especially the threaded ones, I use wood face plate/waste blanks glued to nuts. I do them in runs, and they do remount true every time. I guess if I didn't turn bowls from start to finish, in one session, maybe waste blocks might work.

robo hippy
 
Back
Top