AAW Symposium Location

[Joe Stajduhar]

I hope that the AAW Directors select St. Louis as a venue for our yearly symposium sooner then later.
Why?
1. St. Louis is located in the central part of the country which makes it
easier to travel to from the East and West coasts as well from the
Northern and Southern parts of our country.
2. There is much to see and do in St. Louis.
3. St. Louis is known for great food.
3. St. Louis is a very friendly city full of great people.
So why has St. Louis not yet been selected as the host city for our annual
symposium.
I am hoping that the Missouri Woodturners, the Midwest Woodturners, the
AAW Directors and others realize that St. Louis would be a great location.
AND to answer a question you may ask--NO, I do not live in in St. Louis.
I live in the East---Connecticut.
Keep turning!
Joe

 

[Bill Boehme]

Joe, you could call the AAW office and discuss it with them. The big "problem" is that the country is full of great cities. A more realistic problem is finding a location that has a convention center that is large enough, but doesn't break the bank. Every city has great food and friendly people. Not every city is centrally located. In 2005, the symposium was in Overland Park, a suburb of Kansas City, located a couple hundred miles west of St. Louis but even closer to the geographic center of the country. Larger cities like St. Louis tend to have unaffordable convention centers. Overland Park is not as glitzy as St. Louis, but it had an affordable convention center.

 

[Rob Wallace]

It is a far more complex process than you think.....

Joe stated:

"I hope that the AAW Directors select St. Louis as a venue for our yearly symposium sooner then later."

And then further opines:

Why?
1. St. Louis is located in the central part of the country which makes it
easier to travel to from the East and West coasts as well from the
Northern and Southern parts of our country.
2. There is much to see and do in St. Louis.
3. St. Louis is known for great food.
3. St. Louis is a very friendly city full of great people.
"So why has St. Louis not yet been selected as the host city for our annual
symposium."

Joe:

There are far more variables that go into the site selection process for the annual AAW Symposium than the few you identify.

If we follow your logic, then all of our symposia should be in the middle of the country because the 'coastal guys' can get there OK, and that it evens out the travel burden for everyone (?). In actuality, site locations for symposia are selected based upon many criteria, and the process is outlined briefly HERE.

As Bill noted, the city chosen has to have the infrastructure in place with sufficiently sized facilities to fulfill the needs of ca. 1500+ attendees with meeting rooms for the demonstrations, trade show and Instant Gallery, convenient hotel accommodations, good access to transportation/airports, and several other factors, among the most significant is overall cost. We try to keep the symposium fee affordable, and still try to make hotel costs as affordable as possible too by negotiating group rates. It is a balancing act to try to get the best deal we can to allow the largest number of turners to participate in the Symposium.

One of the biggest factors of who attends the symposium is distance to and from the symposium to a turner's home area. In many surveys done and past attendance data studied, it seems that although there are some turners (the minority) who attend every symposium no matter where it is held, the truth is that most turners deciding on whether to attend a particular symposium will do so if the venue is 600 miles (close to a day's drive) or less from where they live. This is one of the reasons why the policy has been in place to move the symposium locations around to country to try to allow as many members to attend as possible, given this travel distance factor. Another situation to consider is that the symposium is run predominantly with the good work of volunteers from local turning chapters, and site selection is also based on how much local support can be counted on to put on a rather large and complex meeting for a non-profit organization. Even if we found a great location somewhere that many members could easily get to that would be a great place to have the Symposium there several times, we have to also take into consideration that we do not want to "burn out" the members local to that venue, and unduly burden them with having to repeatedly serve as symposium "hosts", including the large amount of work that goes along with this activity. Without support of the local chapters and turning clubs, the symposium would never go on!

This past weekend I was meeting with the other AAW Directors in Tampa to finalize plans for the 2013 symposium there, further advance the plans for the 2014 Symposium in Phoenix (formal plans and contracts have already been initiated), and to begin discussions of Symposium venue cities for 2015 and 2016. Given our most recent symposium locations over the past 5-7 years, the general region for the 2015 symposium is likely to be in the mid-Atlantic region, i.e. within a couple hundred mile radius of Baltimore. (This should be well within the "easy travel" range of MANY AAW members, since it is within the geographic region of the highest density of AAW members!) Our professional meeting planner will be putting out requests for proposals from Convention and Visitors Bureaus to cities with facilities that meet our needs. Note that some "First Tier" cities (New York, Philadelphia, New Orleans, Seattle, Miami, etc.) may have facilities that meet our needs, but the costs associated with running a meeting of our size may just be too high, which would translate to 'unaffordability' for most members (and hence non-attendance). We will see some time later this spring what the prospects are for the 2015 AAW Symposium locations once we get some data back from the proposal submission process via our meeting planner.

For 2016, the "mid-west" will probably be the region considered, and St. Louis might be one of the possibilities, however this situation likely may be one where having the meeting in this metropolitan area may be cost prohibitive, despite the positives you listed. You have to look at it from more than the "good food", "great people", and "lots to do" perspectives and carefully consider costs, venue availability, member locations, and meeting logistics as primary criteria.

The Board tries to do its best to locate the symposium each year, so at a minimum, the venue is within reasonable driving distance for as many AAW members as possible in the region, and can be as reasonably affordable as possible. We do want symposium participants to have enough cash left in their pockets to buy all the neat tools and supplies from the vendors that participate in the Trade Show!

I will provide a brief update about the 2014 Symposium in another thread, but wanted to respond to this to be sure it was understood that symposium site selection is a balancing act between having adequate facilities, transportation considerations, the geographic region and member's geographic locations, available support from local chapters, cost affordability for members, and yes, other attractions in the area that might also be a "draw".

It is not an easy process, but one that the Board takes very seriously.

I hope I've added a different perspective on how this process takes place, and what we need to think about when selecting the Symposium venue.

Rob Wallace
AAW Board of Directors and Member of the Symposium Committee

 

[dbonertz]

I understand what you're saying Rob however I would like to point out that there could be some major benefits to having the symposium rotated over four or five locations. If you divide the country into fourths and one very central USA (possibly) and pick a location semi central to that region and have the symposium there every four to five years. Just to name a few benefits would be contracts could be negotiated years in advance and potentially get better rates for repeat affairs. One of the other benefits is not having to reinvent the symposium every year since the AAW would become familiar with the venue, hotels and clubs. I highly doubt club members would "burn out" on a four or five year rotation and most likely look forward to the next gathering. It seems to me that trip planning for the masses would become easier since everyone would know where the event is happening years in advance. I know this has been discussed in the past and I also know change is tough but I see more benefits than not. But that is just me.

Dale

 

[Bill Boehme]

Dale, I recall reading and/or hearing from board members that ideas like yours have been discussed at various times, but it appears that there are no plans to make a changed to a "permanent" set of fixed locations. While the idea is interesting and worthy of consideration, the discussion should include factors mentioned by Rob Wallace. I sort of doubt that having a symposium at five year intervals in a particular city is much of a bargaining chip. As for burning out, the burden of volunteer help would be permanently relegated to just a few of the 333 local clubs. From what I have heard, even running the regional symposiums tends to burn out people in clubs that take the largest role in doing all the necessary work. It is easy enough to say that it isn't a burden when somebody else is carrying the load.

 

[dbonertz]

I hear you, I help carry the load on our local symposium. You do after a period of time become regenerated and ready to get after it again.

More of a bargaining chip to go back every four or five years rather than once in a lifetime, I would think. Again it has been discussed and decided so it is a mute point.

The powers to be have weighed the pros and cons and have decided to leave it as is. I don't have to agree with that decision nor do I care enough to make a big fuss over it either. It is one of those things in life where I can choose to fight it or accept it. I choose to accept it and get on with life.

 

[Andy Chen]

Joe, ..... In 2005, the symposium was in Overland Park, a suburb of Kansas City, located a couple hundred miles west of St. Louis but even closer to the geographic center of the country. Larger cities like St. Louis tend to have unaffordable convention centers. Overland Park is not as glitzy as St. Louis, but it had an affordable convention center.

Bill, Overland Park was an excellent choice. It was centrally located. The convention center was great with FREE parking (back then, anyway). There was plenty of affordable housing within reasonable distance. Maybe we ought to consider going back there in the near future.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I agree completely. The big cities like to promote all of their wonderful drawing cards for various reasons like attracting new businesses or major conventions. My experience is that going to the opera, galleries, zoo or museums is irrelevant when I hardly have time to do anything other than attend all the rotations that I can. As far as food goes, being basically frugal (sometimes referred to as being really cheap), I am satisfied with fast food.

 

[Joe Greiner]

"back then, anyway" pretty much disables (or at least weakens) the idea of repeating locations. A lot of development can occur in five or six years.

 

[Jon Spelbring]

My $0.02

I haven't looked into the cost, but the Woodworking show uses the convention center in Collinsville, IL. Lots of parking, several hotels, restaurants, and less than 1/2 hour from downtown St. Louis.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I get the impression that the AAW is between a rock and a hard place when it comes to finding a suitable location. The numbers of attendees and demonstrators, and vendors has grown to where many of the affordable venues aren't large enough to accommodate the symposium. And, many ideal places are not affordable.

 

[Rob Wallace]

Thanks for your comemnts!

Dale: The scenario of having "fixed" periodically recurring venues at or near the geographic centroids of densest AAW member locations has been considered in depth, and we talked about it again on Saturday. There are problems with trying to establish commitments and contracts that far out in the future. We have heard the 'burn-out' factor is a real concern, and are sensitive to this. While there is some benefit to becoming familiar with the venue, etc., that usually is not the problem - rising costs and keeping the Symposium affordable is the major problem. We NEED people to travel to and attend the Symposium to make it successful, so the "go-not go" threshold for most is nearly always whether the overall costs to attend are affordable. The driving distance factor I mentioned before is also a real and important part of the equation, as is recruiting vendors to participate in the Trade Show, and keeping it affordable for them too.

Jon: In recent years we have been meeting mostly in convention centers and many do have the necessary accommodations, but we need to be sure these venues are affordable. The AAW symposium is quite different from the "Woodworking Shows" in that this activity generally just requires one massive hall for the entire event, which is of fairly short duration (2-3 days), and does not need much infrastructure associated with the facility use (electrical, signage, tables, etc.) for the woodworking show. In contrast, the AAW Symposium needs a set of 15-20 meeting rooms in fairly close proximity to one another for the concurrent demonstrations/rotations, a room for the youth turning activities, a large hall with 1,000+ seats for the opening ceremony and information meeting, a banquet facility that can feed about 2,000 (more or less) efficiently, and fairly large areas that can be secured for the Instant Gallery and Trade shows, along with some smaller rooms for our special exhibitions that are part of the Symposium as well. Not all convention centers can satisfy these requirements, as well as making sure we have good local chapter support, affordable hotels, and easy access for travel and transportation capabilities.

Bill: You're quite close - not really between the rock/hard place specifically, but a challenge to make all of these variables come together to bring members/attendees, demonstrators (domestic and international), local chapters and volunteers, vendors, collectors, spouses, advertizing/media, and venue/hotel staff to work synergystically together to assure a successful meeting. Budgeting for this event is also a challenge, and in general we have no idea in advance how many members will actually attend the symposium. This is why we hire a professional meeting planner to bring all of these parties together, making projections, and spend quite a bit of people-time planning and coordinating the AAW's flagship event each year. I have only been to each of the past 8 AAW symposia, and for the most part I have been quite pleased overall with how they are run. Yes there are occasionally problems that come up, some of which are out of our control (how many remember the problems with "Galt House" in Louisville, despite it being our most successful symposium ever?),or just basically expensive venues like we had in San Jose? As a part of the main Symposium team now (led by Kurt Hertzog), I am even more thankful to the many people who work together to make the symposium happen each year!

More on the 2013 Symposium in another thread...

Rob Wallace

 

[robo hippy]

We are maybe on the place that our group is too big for the smaller venues, and too little for the big venues like San Jose last year. Commercial convention sites are made for huge groups, and while we take up a lot of room, we don't have the necessary 'people flow' for us to be able to afford this type of site. There are not enough turners coming, and we have very little public/art buyers draw. Not being a show promoter, I don't have a solution, but a state fair grounds might serve better.

robo hippy

 

[davidwalser]

Robo,

I don't know that the AAW just crossed the line into some no man's land -- being too large for the smaller venues and not large enough for the larger venues. Instead, the issue has to do with the type of venue we need for the type of event we want to put on. We went through many of these same issues when planning the upcoming Desert Woodturning Roundup. (You're all invited, by the way. http://www.desertwoodturningroundup.com/)

Each rotation needs to have its own room with good sight lines for all the attendees. That requires a lot of rather small rooms. (Each demo needs its own room or the sound from one would compete with the demo next to it. This means you cannot simply subdivide a large ballroom by erecting curtains.) There aren't very many locations that meet the needs of a semi-large woodturning symposium.

For the DWR we looked at the Arizona State Fairgrounds and at local schools and universities. We also looked at hotels and other venues. None worked as well as the Mesa Convention Center. Schools were either unavailable (our February date is during the school year) or would impose restrictions on our use of the facility that ruled them out.

None of this means that the AAW’s event is impractical. It’s just difficult to find the “right†location. San Jose was too expensive and their labor rules made it difficult for vendors. I think this soured many vendors and members on the event. The AAW learned from that and other experiences and is, I hope, making better choices. Unfortunately, it takes a long time for these better decisions to manifest themselves. In time, with better choices and an improved economy, I think the annual symposium will recapture everyone’s goodwill.

 

[hockenbery]

Robo,

There are lots of facilities that fit AAW well.
The SanJose convention center by itself was too small for us and we used several rooms in the adjoining hotel for demos and had the banquet in a separate facility across the street. The facility fit well and local support in San Jose were terrific!

In Tampa everything fits in the convention center.

Most of the convention centers have a web site that shows the room layouts and capacities.
We need exhibition space for the trade show and instant gallery
18 rooms that seat 100 to 220 for demonstrations
A space for gallery shows,
Banquet seating for 2000 and space for our stage
Opening remarks space
4-5 small rooms for tools, storage, office space etc

We find that the banquet space and 18 demo rooms eliminate lots of venues
But there are lots of venues that have these.

Rob Wallace posted a couple of excellent summaries of the process.

Al

 

[dbonertz]

There are problems with trying to establish commitments and contracts that far out in the future. We have heard the 'burn-out' factor is a real concern, and are sensitive to this. While there is some benefit to becoming familiar with the venue, etc., that usually is not the problem - rising costs and keeping the Symposium affordable is the major problem. We NEED people to travel to and attend the Symposium to make it successful, so the "go-not go" threshold for most is nearly always whether the overall costs to attend are affordable. The driving distance factor I mentioned before is also a real and important part of the equation, as is recruiting vendors to participate in the Trade Show, and keeping it affordable for them too.

Rob: Sounds like you're giving good points in having it on 4/5 year rotations. Contracts that far out can't be that difficult, we already are doing them 3 years ahead aren't we. Burn out is a concern but I really don't think it is a factor every 4/5 years. I hear vendors complain about the moving around the country for the symposium and how it is hard for them to participate. I still feel the attendance (both attendees and vendors) would not change for the worst and most likely for the better if stability were put in place with locations.

Read Mr. Walser's response and those are some of my views why stability is good. You know the labor issues. You know the building layout. Vendors and attendees have opportunities to meet locals and maybe stay with them for the symposium. Attendees and vendors learn the city surroundings and can cut costs on food, lodging and etc. Knowing well in advance the locations and thus travel plans become more consistent and easier. Not to mention that when the torch is past to one board group to the next then the organization becomes more automatic (not reinventing the wheel every year). But we will never really know if it will work because it has been shot down.

I think it would make sense to try it for a 4/5 year rotation since they will be new sites (most likely) anyway from past symposiums. Then when the first rotation back to the first city comes around the AAW can evaluate whether burn out is a real concern. By then they can get good feed back from members and vendors throughout the years. Worse case scenario is the AAW goes back to the same cities for a year or three and then they move around the country again if it does not work as planned. Just a thought but it would need to be put forth with good effort and not half heart.

As a side note why not ask all the members through the journal and emails for their input. This is a very small sampling on this forum. We both may be surprised by the outcome of a survey. Just make sure the questions are asked in a non leading fashion.

Never one easy way is there!

 

[Pete Copeland]

FYI, my main professional organization, the Geological Society of America, does it this way:

GSA headquarters are in Boulder, CO, so every three years, the annual meeting is in Denver. Denver is a good place for a bunch of geologists to get together b it I think the real reason to keep going back to Denver is for the convenience of the GSA staff. It' cheapeer for them to drive to Denver than fly to anywhere. Also, they get used to the venue.

In other years, the site for the meeting rotates between cites in the east and west, loosely defined. The past few years have been

2012 Charlotte
2011 Minneapolis
2010 Denver
2009 Portland
2008 Houston
2007 Denver
2006 Philadelphia
2005 Salt Lake City
2004 Denver

Perhaps the AAW could meet every three or four years in Minneapolis (convinient for the staff and not such a bad place to visit in June) and move the meeting around in other years.

 

[Steven Antonucci]

So, what are the program goals? It seems like this comes up every once in a while- but nobody is stating what the AAW is trying to accomlish, nor what the plan to achieving it is?

Is the desire to run a Symposium that attracts 2000? 10000?

If there is a desire for growth, how do you drive growth? Is growth limited by venue? Travel distance? Would changing these things drive growth or do people like the "every 4 years in my area"?

Seems like it might be worth investigating a bit. I've said it before- Las Vegas DOUBLED my company's attendance at our annual meeting (from Orlando). Sometimes the venue is the attraction because people can come for the event and then extend it to a vacation....

Steve

 

[kip055]

Location

Bill, Overland Park was an excellent choice. It was centrally located. The convention center was great with FREE parking (back then, anyway). There was plenty of affordable housing within reasonable distance. Maybe we ought to consider going back there in the near future.

I agree with Andy that The Overland Park site was a good venue, but think that average attendance is up since then and wonder if they can handle our current sized draw.

The suggestion of having the Symposium in the Twin Cities every 4years or so merits consideration.

And no, I don't live/have family in eithrt location

Kip Powers