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Stabilizing with a FoodSaver Vacuum Sealer?

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I would like to try stabilizing some newly found spalted Dogwood that really needs stabilizing. I do not own a vacuum pump but I do have a FoodSaver Brand vacuum sealer for vacuum sealing food. The outfit comes with several sizes of plastic containers plus a friend gave me a set of the cannisters and I have never used any of them. I have watched the Youtube video's on stabilizing wood. I tried a piece of the Dogwood submerged in water and it did produce the bubbles when I vacuum sealed the wood & water inside of the plastic cannister. The amount of vacuum is expressed in some kind of units that I know nothing about but the number on the videos that they seem to be chasing is between 25 and 30 "vacuum units." I do not have a clue as to how much vacuum a FoodSaver Vacuum Sealer will generate.
Has anyone tried this method?

Any suggestions for a stabilizing product for wood turning?

Thanks in advance for your time and knowledge.
Warren
 

odie

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Sorry......no answers for you, Warren.......

I do have a stupid question, though. :eek:

Are you using the vacuum to remove moisture from the wood, and therefore "stabilizing" the overall moisture content to the ambient atmosphere?

ooc
 
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food saver brand

I would like to try stabilizing some newly found spalted Dogwood that really needs stabilizing. I do not own a vacuum pump but I do have a FoodSaver Brand vacuum sealer for vacuum sealing food. The outfit comes with several sizes of plastic containers plus a friend gave me a set of the cannisters and I have never used any of them. I have watched the Youtube video's on stabilizing wood. I tried a piece of the Dogwood submerged in water and it did produce the bubbles when I vacuum sealed the wood & water inside of the plastic cannister. The amount of vacuum is expressed in some kind of units that I know nothing about but the number on the videos that they seem to be chasing is between 25 and 30 "vacuum units." I do not have a clue as to how much vacuum a FoodSaver Vacuum Sealer will generate.
Has anyone tried this method?

Any suggestions for a stabilizing product for wood turning?


Thanks in advance for your time and knowledge.
Warren



I have a "food saver" brand to pkg meats, but maybe there are higher end models of "food Saver". It does not have a great vacuum. Professional food vac have a greater vac but enuf???? I don't have any idea, except the ordinary "food Saver" probably can't do anything more than what you could do with a big breath intake (inhalation)!!!! Gretch
 
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No

I am not sure what you would like to do with the vacum. Stabilized wood is generally stabilized with a resin. Getting the resin to penetrate the wood is the goal. It takes a good deal of vacum to drive all the air out of the wood so that the resin can fill the tinny voids where the air came from. There are several factors which impact how deeply the resin can penetrate the wood.

Wood species. Some wood species take up resin better. Wood like palm or red oak, which are ring porus take up resin really well. Dense oily woods like cocobola take up almost no wood at all.

Condition of the wood. Spalted woods tend to take up more resin.

Size of the wood. Pen blank size wood can be stableized much more succefuly than thicker wood. Stableizing a nearly finished turned bowl or box is going to be a lot more succesful than a thick block of wood.

Properties of the resin. Watery thin resin tend to penetrate more deeply. Resins usually cure in an endothermic way and as the dureing resin warms they tend to become less viscious.

External forces which might cause the resin to penetrate the wood such as vacum or air pressure.

In your particular case dogwood is a very dense wood which isn't likely take up resin. You never said what resin you intend to use. The rot "fix" epoxy tend to be very thin and expensive. The vacum provided by you food saver is likely to be strong enough. However the resin will give off vapors which will almost certainly render your food saver non-operable after just a few "stableizing" uses.

This is the long way of saying "I would not use my food saver to stablelize spaluted dogwood."
 

Steve Worcester

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Warren: Spalted wood absorbs a lot of resin because of its poor condition. Take some epoxy resin and dilute it with acetone and apply it with a brush. You will be amazed at how much resin it will take up.
 

Bill Boehme

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Warren, as everybody has said, the Food Saver vacuum is not suitable for pulling any significant vacuum. Forget about vacuum altogether for small pieces of spalted wood. Instead, get a pint of MinWax Wood Hardener for about $12 or so (the price keeps rising faster than I can keep track). Only use this on small pieces and do not let it soak until it is saturated or it will become too hard to turn. You will have to learn by trial and error how much hardener is right. If you are thinking about stabilizing bowl blanks, forget about the MinWax Wood Hardener because it is too expensive.
 
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Thanks for y'alls help with the FoodSaver issue. Please read my message.

TO ALL:
I really appreciate each & every one of you taking the time to respond to my question. I looked and looked for something about the Foodsaver Vacuum Sealer being used like the other guys are using different techniques for vacuuming wood for stabilizing but did not find anything. Thus, "First time for everything."

TO ODIE:
I have been reading questions & answers on this site for a few months and have read a lot of your answers. Didn't expect you to be the first to respond. I have been turning & learning for about 3 months now. I'm 62 & just retired last Dec. Took the beginner's lathe class at Woodcraft in Birmingham, AL. I found the 18 inch diameter Dogwood "curb shopping" and wanted to use as much of the spalted wood as possible. I have been learning about stabilizing by way ofthe University of Youtube "Wood stabilizing 101" and the Google Institute of Technology. It does not seem like rocket surgery but after reading these responses I now realize there is a lot more to it than I first thought. Your question flew right over my head. Testing the moisture shows 12% and the old dry wood here in humid central Alabama will test in that range. My intent, as you well know, is to hold the wood together. If you have additional information you can email me at wcemail@aol.com or either provide a link but please try to keep the information at the 12 pak Joe level.

FYI: I quickly viewed your "Crazy Ideas" and enjoyed them very much. In your Air Blaster description you mentioned the moisture in your compressor tank. I asked my friend that has been in the body & fender repair business for 40+ years about a moisture trap for my compressor a year ago. He said to forget it and save my money. Moisture in a compressor tank is a never ending battle. You should have a drain on your tank so hook a short length of coiled hose (or straight) with an El-Cheap-O blow gun to it and just blow the water out daily or before you use it. If you need to use the compressor for paitnting just buy some of the throw away moisture filters, use them and toss after use.

Also, I tried to view your pics that required a password and entered my site password but it did not work...?

'Preciate everything Mr. Odie.

TO GRETCH FLO:
Fantastic
I did test test a piece of the spalted Dogwood with water that was about the size of a Vienna Sausage can. The video's I have looked at did say to watch for bubbles leaving the wood. When I applied the vacuum it looked like an Alka Seltzer in the cannister so I believe it is stronger than my lungs but efficient for stabilizing wood? I do not know......yet.

'Preciate your comments.

TO GENIA:

My last sentence in my post was asking about a product to stabilize wood and I appreciate you narrowing down my choices to "resin." I'm sure you are aware of the various stabilizing products and with me just learning you have helped me a lot. Just go to Youtube and search for "stabilizing wood" and you will see what I am/was dealing with. I just want to try to save some of the lower trunk & part of the root ball that is crumbly and spalted....if possible. I know that the good wood needs no stabilization and would probably be impossible to get something to penetrate that very dense wood. The size of the spalted wood limits it use. Probably wine bottle stoppers, plumb bobs, small boxes, ornaments and I may try pen turning.

As far as using that FoodSaver for stabilizing wood, it was not being used for anything else. Might as well get some use out of it. That was the Ex's "must have" $125 toy and was never used as intended. The plastic cannisters were still in the original wrapper. I see no reason why it could not be used for sealing food in the plastic bags because the air is moving away from the food and the tube & cannisters that I plan for using for stabilizing wood will not be used for food.

'Preciate your help and comments.

TO STEVE WORCESTER:

Fantastic!
I checked out those links and I will Check Out the Cactus Juice. I look foreward to re-visiting that web site and the additional links.

'Preciate it!

TO JIM RIND:

Thanks Jim. Sounds like you have the best suggestion so far. Simple & sweet.

'Preciate it!

TO BILL BOEHME

See my reply above to Jim Rind.

'Preciate it
 
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Food Saver

According to an article on the advantages of vaccumn sealing in the Chicago Tribune Oct. 4, 2006, a food saver pulls 24.2 inches Hg. My guess is it will do what you want it to do.
I have thought of doing the same thing...just haven't tried it yet. I think it would work well for dying wood also. Use a quart mason jar if your wood will fit. Then you won't put your plastic containers at risk.

George
 

Bill Boehme

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According to an article on the advantages of vaccumn sealing in the Chicago Tribune Oct. 4, 2006, a food saver pulls 24.2 inches Hg. My guess is it will do what you want it to do.
I have thought of doing the same thing...just haven't tried it yet. I think it would work well for dying wood also. Use a quart mason jar if your wood will fit. Then you won't put your plastic containers at risk.

George

We probably need to clarify which Food Saver we are talking about since there are over 30 models of Food Savers ranging from less than $20 to about $350. The big fancy ones are "professional" type machines that heat seal products in roll type plastic sleeving while the lowest price ones are hand operated devices that suck some of the air out of special plastic storage containers that have a valve on the lid. While it is possible that the fancier units could pull a vacuum of 24.5 inches of mercury at sea level that is far more than what would be needed for any food storage purposes. It appears that most of the units work with either zip lock type plastic bags that have a valve and the plastic storage containers that have a snap on lid and valve. Obviously, very little vacuum can be used with the storage containers.

In any event, what I gathered from looking at some of the user manuals is that keeping contaminants out of the vacuum system appears to be a major concern -- and if I may read between the lines, a major cause of failures. they go into a lot of detail on keeping things clean and minimizing the chance for moisture getting into the vacuum system and suggesting that things need to be frozen first and then vacuum sealed.

Contamination of the vacuum system might be a problem with any kind of resin encapsulation of wood because of fumes that could possibly damage the plastic components of the vacuum pumps.
 
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I have messed about with a bit of wood stabilization.

I don't know whether I would use a food saver, but that's only because I am a housewife, and it would render it useless for anything related to food.

I discovered a hand operated vacuum pump that is used to bleed the brakes of a car (automobile). It uses 1/4" clear tubing, which is handy because you can make it long enough to be comfy, plus you can see through it (to see if you are sucking up any resin/wood hardener) plus you can fold it over on itself and put a peg on it thus creating a seal for your vacuum which means you don't have to continually sit and hold the pump.

I used a mason-type preserving jar with a metal lid, bored a hole into it and put in a gas fitting which I 'sealed' each side of the metal using rubber washers. The plastic tubing fits neatly over the air fitting (if you buy the correct size first time).

I poured my wood hardener into the mason jar, dropped in my piece of wood, and put a piece of metal (aluminium in my case) on top to weight down the wood to submerge it in the hardener. Then I closed everything up, and pumped like mad until all the bubbles were out of the wood, held it there for a little while, then released the pressure. I did this three times until the wood sank fully without being helped. Then I fished out the wood, and set it to dry for a couple of weeks outside in the dry (it stank too much to come indoors for that process) and used it for knife handles.

I have stabilized about 50 sets of scales and about 20 knife handle blocks of wood this way with success. The hardener goes all the way through the blocks. I was not terribly happy with how it glued up though (on three knives that I made), and want to experiment with some adhesives to see if I can break the bond. Not got there yet, life keeps getting in the way...

If I do this again, I will purchase a thin molding resin that is specifically formulated for vacuum forming for things such as fibreglass boats, wind turbine housings etc, and I will pour enough resin into a plastic bag which I will insert into the mason jar and then drop my wood into that and suck out all the air. That is more economical on resin, and I have been told by someone who does this regularly that it works well.

The other two things I would mention are:
1) I would not breathe the dust from the stabilized wood
2) Preserving jars are known to collapse on occasion when under severe vacuum. I have never had that problem, but maybe I have been lucky. Someone else I know has had it happen, and has learned to wrap several layers of Duck tape around the outside, leaving some spaces to see the bubbles. Ah - I had to put a plastic bag between the jar and the lid to help get a true air seal when starting off, but then I was using a second hand jar and lid which was slightly corroded anyway.

Next time I do this, I intend to use my vacuum chucking pump with a proper resin fume filter bath to suck out the air. The brake vac pump works well, but it does require some effort.

Message to self: think of all those calories you could burn pumping that little handle... :D
 
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yes you will burn calories by using the pump BUT WHAT IF the calories are in your arm and hand [LOL ] I did like your idea
 
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"yes you will burn calories by using the pump BUT WHAT IF the calories are in your arm and hand [LOL ] I did like your idea"

Then I would look like Popeye but only on one side. :cool2:

It actually works well, and TBH, the effort involved wasn't that bad. :)
 
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Jean,
Please let us know what resin you end up using and what your results are. This may be something others might have a want/need to do.
Thanks for sharing,
Rick Taylor
 
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This is a bit off topic but pertains to the Food Saver use. I have lost more than a few dollars because of old shellac and milk paint. I now use the $139 Food Saver to vacuum my shellac flakes and milk paint and have exteneded my shellac to two + years and it still desolves fine. The milk paint is over 3 years and working well. Oh, I usually have to double bag the shellac flakes as they tend to put holes in just one bag. cheers.
 
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"yes you will burn calories by using the pump BUT WHAT IF the calories are in your arm and hand [LOL ] I did like your idea"

Then I would look like Popeye but only on one side

It actually works well, and TBH, the effort involved wasn't that bad. :)

ACTUAL JEAN, I were thinking of Brutus [ who was second-based to POPEYE
sound minds think alike and this scares me
 
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food savers

it wont work for what you want.
cant explain why in scientific terms but imho stabilization requires CONSTANT vacuum. food savers never remove all the air when they feel resistance they shut off. just my two cents worth.
 
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