AAW Symposium?

[Ruth Niles]

Since I have a vendor's booth at just about every local symposium, I hear a lot of discussions regarding the AAW show. For a number of years I have heard these same suggestions and opinions:

1) Having 4 locations, mid north, south, west and east and rotate every 4 years.
reasoning: people will drive one state in from the coast or their home.....not many people can drive in from the oceans.

AAW says they try to go where there are groups/gaggles/herds of turning clubs. (but woodturners do drive......this is my opinion)

2) Try to find locations out of the big cities or less expensive cities. One example cited an awful lot is Las Vegas. Big city, yes, expensive, no.

reasoning: airlines offer super discount packages, rooms in big hotels $49 a night, lots of entertainment (and, no, it's not all topless and hookers!) and shopping for spouses. Huge conference centers and easy access.....unlike a lot of cities that are a nightmare to navigate. (this last is my opinion but I get lost once every trip)

3) Having 2 shows, one east of the Mississippi, one west of the Mississippi.

reasoning: the demonstrations would not be so packed, more turners would attend (these two reasons negate each other in my opinion, but these suggestions are not my opinion).

Now my opinion.........hmmm, guess I would say the first suggestion which I hear more than any others.

Just bouncing thoughts around.

Ruth

 

[cascayou]

Las Vegas would be great!

Ruth, what a great suggestion Las Vegas since we have a store here and a club beginning to be of some importance. I too am tired of driving from coast to coast trailing my Vicmarc lathes. I agree that it would be great for couples visiting since there are so many entertainments around. I am trying my best to make Las Vegas more into woodturning, for example our club will have Jean-Francois Escoulen and Terry Martin give a workshop in June
www.woodworkersemporium.com

 

[hockenbery]

Ruth,
All good ideas but none are new. May be worth revisiting them.

1. The 3 or 4 static locations was pushed quite hard by several board members in 2005/6. It was presented to the AAW membership in a poll then.
The membership was overwhelmingly against it. Another issue is a lot of work still falls upon the local chapters.
3 years is not enough time between that level of commitment so AAW would have to hire more labor for local support.

2. Generally the symposium selection has focused on tier 2 cities. It has to be large enough to have a major airport and a big convention center.
Another consideration is local base of AAW members. Tampa and San Jose are tier 2 cities with good airports.
Both cites have over 200 AAW members within 75 miles of the city. 289 for San Jose 272. For Tampa. Lots of local support.
Las Vegas and Reno have been considered in the past because of the low cost possibilities. both have pretty low AAW populations. There is also the family atmosphere consideration. I know Vegas advertised the family concept a few years ago but they seem to be back to the "stays in Vegas" message.
Right or wrong it is a perception.

3. The two symposiums have been discussed by the board. General consensus was that one a year is enough. It is a lot of work two big ones is twice as much work.
We are working on 2013 now an we aren't done with 2012. With 2 a year we would be working on 4 at time. The regional Symposiums do a pretty good job of filling some gaps.

There are several sessions planned on the future of symposiums at the San Jose symposium. Be a good place to bring suggestion like these .

The current site selection process is posted:
http://www.woodturner.org/sym/AAWSymposiumSiteSelection.pdf



Happy turning,
Al

 

[Dale Canapini]

Now I am not saying we should or should not but some thing to think about. I used to be a CAD support guy. Autodesk the maker of Autocad used to hold there big symposium all over the country every year and had decent attendance. In 2000 they held it in Vegas. Turn out was 10 times what their previous turn outs were. Since then they have held them there every year, largely for the reasons Ruth cited. The hotel virtually gave the rooms away. Flights in & out were very cheap.

 

[Steven Antonucci]

Now I am not saying we should or should not but some thing to think about. I used to be a CAD support guy. Autodesk the maker of Autocad used to hold there big symposium all over the country every year and had decent attendance. In 2000 they held it in Vegas. Turn out was 10 times what their previous turn outs were. Since then they have held them there every year, largely for the reasons Ruth cited. The hotel virtually gave the rooms away. Flights in & out were very cheap.

I used to work for another software vendor and we had the exact same result. The event doubled the first year it was in Las Vegas, and never moved after that. The biggest fear that the company had was that there would be too many "distractions", and that was quickly dismissed by the obvious fact that once you've paid to go, who cares if you decide to play blackjack instead of attend a rotation?

 

[hockenbery]

Las Vegas has worked well for the big computer and gadget shows.
Does it will wok for AAW?
Woodturning has presence in las Vegas with Christian Brisepierre, woodworkers emporium, is a big supporter of AAW.
The Vegas chapter seems to have a lot of activities.

you all have a few years to convince the BOD that Las Vegas will work for AAW.

Below are a couple of views of AAW members as dots. The 2 maps of southern Canada and the lower 48 Shows show where members live and where chapters are located.

The others show how many AAW member live within 75 miles of Las Vegas, Phoenix, San Jose(2012) and Tampa(2013).
Los Vegas has a small number of AAW members to daw local support from. Currently AAW depends on our member to run our symposium.
A strong cadre of local volunteers is essential.



Al

 

[underdog]

On this same subject....

I'd like to voice my huge disappointment that the folks in charge for next year's symposium decided on Tampa rather than Atlanta....

Seems to me that Atlanta is a hub for the whole southeast, with Alabama, Tennessee, North and South Carolina, and Florida being adjacent states, with quite a few active clubs in each state. Atlanta is within pretty easy driving distance of said states.... not to mention the international airport minutes from downtown.

But nary a time has the AAW symposium been held there. Looking at the map of past symposiums, I see several cities where the symposium has been held, not once, but several times. This last time Atlanta was up for consideration, but for some reason Tampa was chosen instead. I don't really see why. (And whoever said Nick Cook agreed with this decision is wrong- he told me so himself.)

I'm sure there are many members who cannot afford to fly clear across the country, much less drive. I certainly can't... but I could afford to drive to Atlanta for several days.... I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking this, since there was a whole group of folks boycotting the Tampa symposium....

I'm not boycotting it, just can't afford to take off that much work time and spend even more money for airfare and hotels....

 

[Mark Mandell]

On this same subject....

I'd like to voice my huge disappointment that the folks in charge for next year's symposium decided on Tampa rather than Atlanta....

Seems to me that Atlanta is a hub for the whole southeast, with Alabama, Tennessee, North and South Carolina, and Florida being adjacent states, with quite a few active clubs in each state. Atlanta is within pretty easy driving distance of said states.... not to mention the international airport minutes from downtown.

But nary a time has the AAW symposium been held there. Looking at the map of past symposiums, I see several cities where the symposium has been held, not once, but several times. This last time Atlanta was up for consideration, but for some reason Tampa was chosen instead. I don't really see why. (And whoever said Nick Cook agreed with this decision is wrong- he told me so himself.)

I'm sure there are many members who cannot afford to fly clear across the country, much less drive. I certainly can't... but I could afford to drive to Atlanta for several days.... I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking this, since there was a whole group of folks boycotting the Tampa symposium....

I'm not boycotting it, just can't afford to take off that much work time and spend even more money for airfare and hotels....

Hey Jim,

While I wasn't involved in any way, I did hear a couple of comments last year in St. Paul that the problem with Atlanta was the venue not having a facility that could physically handle the size of the AAW Symposium, apparently because of demonstration and banquet space limitations. Perhaps the AAW's strong growth in membership has forced a change in criteria. Nothing like being a victim of your own success, eh?

I'd hate to be in a position, as a dues-paying member, of not being "allowed" to go to the Symposium because all available tickets were sold out. Can you see some guy scalping tickets outside on the sidewalk? . . . "Yo, my man, you a woodturner? Hey, hey, very special for too-day 'cause I like youz, $750 cash; $500 more gets the little lady in as well and I even throw in passes to the Big Dinner"

PS: Boycott? Hadn't heard about anything like that. What's the issue?

 

[hockenbery]

On this same subject....

I'd like to voice my huge disappointment that the folks in charge for next year's symposium decided on Tampa rather than Atlanta....

Seems to me that Atlanta is a hub for the whole southeast, with Alabama, Tennessee, North and South Carolina, and Florida being adjacent states, with quite a few active clubs in each state. Atlanta is within pretty easy driving distance of said states.... not to mention the international airport minutes from downtown.

....

History:
I was on the board when we voted (in 2009) to go to Marietta for 2013 over Tampa and Orlando. Then the AAW got into a bad contract in Atlanta (not Marietta). The contract was signed without a site visit by anyone from AAW. The AAW got out of the bad contract. The board then revisited the selection process. In 2011 the board narrowed the selection to two sites. Georgia was definitely the sentimental favorite because it should have better attendance, the AAW has never been in Georgia, and the expectations from the earlier announcement.

Decision maker:
The deciding factor was the banquet facility in georgia could only seat 1200 and maybe less with our stage. We have been selling out banquets with 1400 seats and have lots of unhappy people who can't get tickets. The Tampa facility seats 3000 for the banquet. The available Georgia facilities were not large enough for our symposium.

I visited the Tampa facility with the AAW ED and the AAW conference Coordinator.
I serve on the symposium Committee. My report to the board was pretty simple.
1. The Tampa facility is ideal for AAW in every aspect we considered.
2. Atlanta will have a larger attendance.

I hope you might be able to make the trip to Tampa.
It will most likely be cooler than Atlanta and it has beaches nearby.
Tampa will be a great venue for the 2013 symposium. Everything has been renovated top to bottom for the GOP convention.
Al

 

[underdog]

I hope you might be able to make the trip to Tampa.

I wish I could.

Keep hoping. If I come it means I get more than one week of vacation and a substantial raise.

Read that as saying, "I can't afford it Ed." I don't see how so many folks can afford to travel every single year to a symposium halfway across the country, much less one state away....

I guess I'm having a hard time believing that Atlanta has no convention centers large enough for the AAW symposium. I attend the IWF every other year, and they seem to have enough room for a convention that's a whole lot larger than anything the AAW puts together...

But maybe it's true....

I'm still hugely disappointed. Of course I'd like to go, who wouldn't?
The fact remains, I can only go if it's a couple hours drive away.

 

[hockenbery]

I guess I'm having a hard time believing that Atlanta has no convention centers large enough for the AAW symposium. I attend the IWF every other year, and they seem to have enough room for a convention that's a whole lot larger than anything the AAW puts together...

But maybe it's true....

I'm still hugely disappointed. Of course I'd like to go, who wouldn't?
.

The available sites were not large enough. A site in the Atlanta area that was large enough It did not have any open dates in June 2013.
Generally the AAW contracts 3 years ahead. Having to get out of the bad contracts and re do the the 2012 and 2013 contracts put us behind with fewer options to chose among.
The AAW is now back on the 3 years out with 2014 set and is working on 2015.

Most AAW members like to drive and many are on tight budgets.
The AAW symposium is moved around attempting to be within a day's drive of most members every 5 years.
The AAW come close but there are always some members further than a days drive for more than 5 years.
our symposiums have been having attendance of 1400 -1600 since 2007. maybe 200 members come to all or most of them.

Consider finding 3-4 people you enjoy spending time with. Carpool and share rooms and it does not cost that much.
People stay in campgrounds, Hillsborough river state park is an easy
Doesn't solve the extra day off from work as you would want to drive down on Thursday.

Al

 

[underdog]

Well, here's hoping that it comes even closer in the future...

But thank you for your response, and the good suggestions. I'll keep those in mind as the date comes closer... who knows, maybe I'll convince the wife to come with me, since it's near the beach.... although I strongly doubt it..

 

[Ruth Niles]

History:

I hope you might be able to make the trip to Tampa.
It will most likely be cooler than Atlanta and it has beaches nearby.
Tampa will be a great venue for the 2013 symposium. Everything has been renovated top to bottom for the GOP convention.
Al

Just curious, are there a lot of woodturners who are influenced by the attractions nearby when deciding if they will attend that years' symposium?

Over the years, I've taken a very informal and certainly not complete survey of attendees who stop at my booth and I ask this question. Never heard one say yes that it was so their partner would have something to do. The AAW has so many fantastic things going on constantly, why would anyone care where they are except to find good food............and even that isn't priority. We usually have a gaggle of turners, descend on a food place just to sit down, eat and talk turning!

Also, Ed, thanks for the explanations, they are quite enlightening.

Ruth

 

[hockenbery]

Just curious, are there a lot of woodturners who are influenced by the attractions nearby when deciding if they will attend that years' symposium?
Ruth

Ruth,

The tourist aspect doesn't have much to do with selection. It is hard to find a convention center that can hold AAW located in place no one wants to visit.
Harder still to find one that doesn't promote their area.

We don't have any data that says a great tourist destination increases attendance
Tourism probably doesn't draw too many members.
I know lots of folks do tourist things in the area. Whether it is chicken or egg?

personally we went early to Albuquerque and visited the painted desert, petrified forest, canyon de Chelly and bandolier
This year we are going to go to Yosemite for a few days. But that is more taking advantage of things nearby


I have to think there might be a bunch of grand children coming to turning classes in 2013 and maybe spending a few days at Disney.

Think we can get a bunch of folks interested in paddling in the wake of The Bosch's, Al Stirt, and Jimmy Clewes on the hillsborough river?

Al

 

[Steven Antonucci]

Al-

FYI- Yosemite is 4 hours from San Jose. It is well worth the ride, but you may find that it is better to be in its graces than stuck in some room watching someone turn wood

San Francisco is only 2 hours with traffic... also many distractions that trump a turning demo...

If I were you, I'd go to San Jose first, or you just may not make it there ...

Steve

 

[hockenbery]

Al-

FYI- Yosemite is 4 hours from San Jose. It is well worth the ride, but you may find that it is better to be in its graces than stuck in some room watching someone turn wood

San Francisco is only 2 hours with traffic... also many distractions that trump a turning demo...

If I were you, I'd go to San Jose first, or you just may not make it there ...

Steve

Steve
I know we'll enjoy Yosemite.

Thanks for the advice.

in June 1972 , the Army sent this Florida boy to Skaggs Island north of San Francisco to show the navy some software.
I thought all California was warm and sunny like Florida. San Francisco was like another planet. Windy and cold..... Skaggs Island being 40 miles North was warm and sunny.

We had a free afternoon and drove to see the golden gate bridge. Got to enjoy it for about 2 hours mostly right on top of it.


Al

 

[Steven Antonucci]

Mark Twain was noted for suggesting that the coldest winter he ever felt was the summer he spent in San Francisco.

I've been to San Jose and San Fran off and on for the past 13 years of my life. Everytime I go, I find something new and unique to do that makes it hard to fit in the next time I go. Yosemite is very similar, as I am still of the thought that I am young enough to "go for a hike" pretty much anywhere. My knees don't always share that opinion.

So much to do, so little time...

 

[Don O. Jr.]

Think we can get a bunch of folks interested in paddling in the wake of The Bosch's, Al Stirt, and Jimmy Clewes on the hillsborough river?

Al

Now THAT just might get me thinking about trying to get there.

 

[hockenbery]

Now THAT just might get me thinking about trying to get there.

Don if you come to San Jose you can see a photo of Al Stirt chasing alligators.


Florida still has some of the wildest country in the US. Has the biggest cattle ranch in the US too!
Now is that fun fact or what!

Al

 

[hockenbery]

Consider those people who do not fly to their destination plus time of year for the climate. Why would I want to go south in the Summer???

Walter,

The simple answer is to attend the symposium. 2015 is likely to be a shorter drive for you.
It is a long long drive for 1 day from PA. an easy 2 day drive. It is a lot closer than San Jose or Phoenix.

Tampa in June is usually high 80s with constant sea breezes. Convention center is right on the water.
Best of all you can breath the air, no warning messages to stay indoors that are so common in the north east.

St paul was a 102 the week before the 2011 symposium.
As the symposiums are indoors it doesn't matter a whole lot. .If you want cool San Jose is your spot.
2012 San Jose, 2013 Tampa, 2014 Phoenix, 2015?? If you want to attend a symposium before 2015, Tampa is closest for your.

Tampa has beaches, Seminole Casino, museums and great state parks nearby.
Best of all if you have young turners in the family bring them to Tampa and spend a couple of days at Disney on the way home.
What could be better week for a 12 year old?

Al

 

[underdog]

Point. :cool2:

That's like asking me to take a winter vacation in the north... why would I want to spend my vacation in a place that's colder than it is here?

 

[Charlie Knighton]

Al,

have they signed a contract with Phoneix for 2014???/???

 

[hockenbery]

Al,

have they signed a contract with Phoneix for 2014???/???

Yes! About a month back.

Al

 

[dbonertz]

Since this is being discussed I would like to ask a couple of questions.

First: Has it been discussed to move the date of the symposium from summer date to a late fall, early winter or late winter date? I understand that travel conditions need to be factored in but I know several people including myself who just cannot pull away from work in the busiest business time of year for so many industries. It seems to me that even many turners who do art and craft shows could use a more friendly date. I asked this question to some of the old timers and got the response that originally the summer date was set because the early symposiums were on college campuses thus the need for summer dates. This now seems obsolete so thought I would ask.

Second: This is more of an observation but it is getting harder and harder to move wood across state lines. With keeping this in perspective does this start making sense for maybe two locations rotated? Places like Salt Lake City or Denver in the west and Louisville or wherever in the east. They are centrally located north and south and central in the west and the east. They are also easy to drive and fly into and out of these cities. Obviously the state would need to be wood friendly and have the correct facilities. From an AAW fiscal standpoint would it be easier to negotiate better contracts if these same locations knew you were coming every other year? It would also seem easier for AAW members to budget and plan attendance if they knew this year it is in SLC and next Louisville and not all over the place.
These are just a few thoughts and questions and I am certainly open to any enlightenment for the why not’s and or why it may be a good idea. I have heard Ed say the committee is trying to be within driving distance every five years which I understand but besides that what are other comments pro or con. I think driving distance becomes a relative or non issue if it were in conveniently located areas of the country every two years.

Thanks for your consideration.
Dale

 

[john lucas]

I'm kind of the opposite on time of year. Summer is the slowest time at work so it's easier for me at least to get time off in the summer.
I'm a southerner so heat doesn't bother me. In fact it's the cold that I avoid.
I see the problem with wood transportation just getting worse in the future not better. We'll all just have to learn to deal with that problem.

 

[dbonertz]

John,

You can't fool me, you're retired.

Dale

 

[john lucas]

In 3 more weeks. Of course then I won't have the money to travel so getting to the symposiums will still be a problem.

 

[hockenbery]

Since this is being discussed I would like to ask a couple of questions.

First: Has it been discussed to move the date of the symposium from summer date to a late fall, early winter or late winter date? I understand that travel conditions need to be factored in but I know several people including myself who just cannot pull away from work in the busiest business time of year for so many industries. It seems to me that even many turners who do art and craft shows could use a more friendly date. I asked this question to some of the old timers and got the response that originally the summer date was set because the early symposiums were on college campuses thus the need for summer dates. This now seems obsolete so thought I would ask.

Second: This is more of an observation but it is getting harder and harder to move wood across state lines. With keeping this in perspective does this start making sense for maybe two locations rotated? Places like Salt Lake City or Denver in the west and Louisville or wherever in the east. They are centrally located north and south and central in the west and the east. They are also easy to drive and fly into and out of these cities. Obviously the state would need to be wood friendly and have the correct facilities. From an AAW fiscal standpoint would it be easier to negotiate better contracts if these same locations knew you were coming every other year? It would also seem easier for AAW members to budget and plan attendance if they knew this year it is in SLC and next Louisville and not all over the place.
These are just a few thoughts and questions and I am certainly open to any enlightenment for the why notss and or why it may be a good idea. I have heard Ed say the committee is trying to be within driving distance every five years which I understand but besides that what are other comments pro or con. I think driving distance becomes a relative or non issue if it were in conveniently located areas of the country every two years.

Thanks for your consideration.
Dale

1. The dates have been discussed. With the Youth program a summer date works best and regional symposiums around the country have the spring and fall covered.

2. Fixed locations received a lot of attention in the 2006-2007 time frame. A member poll was decidedly against it and we could no longer rely on volunteers as we do today to keep the symposium costs lower. Ask the folks in San Jose if they would like to run the AAW symposium again in 2 years. The Baltimore/Washington area might be able to support it they have a huge concentration of AAW members but I don't see any other region that has enough AAW members to sustain the level of effort over and over.

3 As to moving wood. If there were better inspection at our orders we would not have the internal border issue. With declining budgets look for the alien pest problem to increase. We all know the ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure. If only we were curing the ash beetle or the laurel wilt. All we are doing is slowing its spread in hopes of finding a cure.
The Laurel wilt cause by an Asian ambrosia beetle is killing over 90% of the red bays where it is present. In Florida and georgia.

Al

 

[dbonertz]

Al,

All good points but the argument could be made that every time it is moved it is a new building, new group of volunteers, new rules (union or not) and etc. It is like starting new every year rather than have consistency and knowing and understanding what you are walking into every 2 years. I would imagine if you asked the San Jose volunteers that question today they may say no. But after they did it twice they would be much better prepared and things would go smoother as they become more familiar with the surroundings, what is needed , building and etc.

It also seems the AAW could negotiate better contracts if the center knew they were coming every other year. I have heard many say they enjoyed the symposium but it was hard to get around simply do to not knowing the building and surrounding area.

Ahh all things considered it was discussed and decided so no sense in beating a dead horse.

Dale

 

[hockenbery]

Dale,
All good arguments.

That is why it got a lot of serious study.

I suspect in a few years the board will consider it again.

Maybe it is time for another membership poll.
Al

 

[AnnHerbst]

Volunteers sacrifice

Al,

All good points but the argument could be made that every time it is moved it is a new building, new group of volunteers, new rules (union or not) and etc. It is like starting new every year rather than have consistency and knowing and understanding what you are walking into every 2 years. I would imagine if you asked the San Jose volunteers that question today they may say no. But after they did it twice they would be much better prepared and things would go smoother as they become more familiar with the surroundings, what is needed , building and etc.
* * *
Dale

Dale,
You may not realize that many of the local San Jose volunteers did not get to enjoy as many rotations, etc. as other participants. They were the ones solving last minute problems all over the venue. I saw them hustling the halls through out the weekend. I do not believe frequency would help this much.

I have volunteered in the youth room, during the last 3 of 4 symposiums I have attended, on average of three rotations. (Overland Park, Portland, Albuquerque and San Jose) It is fun, but means that rotation time is not my own to choose other things to do or see.

I cannot imagine working on a symposium every other year close to home and not being able to enjoy most of it seeing things to broaden my own art. Giving for a symposium every 6 - 10 years is fine, but Al's comment about burning out local volunteers is spot on.

IF AAW members wish more stability in venues, then AAW will have to face this problem. In my humble opinion until then a sharing of fun and responsibility is working.

Ann

 

[dbonertz]

Ann,

The real heroes are the volunteers since none of this would be possible without them. However, I do understand to an extent (small symposium versus large) since our club has a symposium every year. I have not been able to go to a national symposium so it may be different (definitely is in size). Immediately following our symposium there are a few of us that have to go to work to start organizing the next years symposium. Call for demonstrators, new contract for space, marketing and etc. which is mostly handled through email anymore. The advantage of being in one location is the organizers know the layout and surroundings so site visits are no longer necessary. I guess my point is couldn't the volunteers be from around the country rather than the same club or clubs? Understanding that moving lathes and other equipment may need help from a few locals. Most of the volunteer work won't start until the actual weekend for setup, tear down, cleanup during and after the symposium, video and etc. etc. The issue then becomes those that travel and volunteer will want to see some rotations so scheduling the volunteers on hours and off hours becomes more work for the coordinator of the volunteers. Making a change like this would have its own transition issues to work through.

All of it would be doable but again it has been discussed and decided.

Thank you Ann and all who have volunteered for any of the symposiums. You make this all happen so so many can have an enjoyable weekend.

Dale

 

[Mark Wollschlager]

I am thinking about being a volunteer at an upcoming Symposium.
I did not for the one closest to me due to ...well I was really busy and wanted a break.
The symposiums are generally rolled up into a larger vacation.
We enjoy seeing different parts of the country, and returning to the same couple of spots would get old pretty quickly.
We are lucky to have the ability to travel.
Moving the national symposium around the country should give a large percentage of members to be within driving distance every couple of years.
I have enjoyed a couple of the regional symposiums and will probably attend more.
Each have their draws and drawbacks, time of year, distance, demonstrators, etc.
They are generally at the same locations, which is the essence of a regional event. The region 'owns' that symposium.
The national symposium needs to move to give more than one area a chance to 'own' it
I salute the volunteers and hope to join them in the future.

Mark