New SPAM Sources Apparently Using AAW Email Addresses

[Rick M]

Starting about a month ago, I began receiving Unsolicited Commercial Email to an address unique to my AAW membership listing. After a 2nd spammer also began emailing me a few days ago I'm convinced someone is either pilfering addresses from the AAW Member database/directory or the AAW has chosen to offer that information to vendors without being particularly clear to members about it. My suspicions lean more toward the former than the latter.

If there's anything good about this, it's coming from woodturning related vendors--for now, anyway--and the spamming vendors are using bulk email companies whose "unsubscribe" links are IMO likely to be honored, although I haven't tested that yet.

Neither business's owners (nor any employees mentioned within the emails) show up in the Membership list--therefore no online access--and the General Privacy Policy (1 of 2 Privacy Policy pages on the AAW web site) mentions use of email that essentially indicates it'll only be used for AAW related purposes and not shared with outside parties.

Has anyone else noticed lately new email coming from woodturning vendors you haven't done business with or exchanged info at a symposium?

 

[Barbara Gill]

No, nothing different here.

 

[AlanZ]

Rick,

Is the email address specific to your AAW membership, or have you also used it for registering for this forum (where AAW membership is not required)? Those are two very different membership lists, and it might indicate which list is being used.

 

[ray hampton]

I received a E-MAIL from a unknown company today [wood related content ] everybody [even you ] sells people names list

 

[Bob Salvetti]

Spam Me Too Scotty

I received mine today also - addressed to "Dear Woodlover"

??????

 

[Bill Boehme]

Have you ever provided your email address to a vendor at a woodturning or woodworking symposium? Many vendors solicit your email address when you make a purchase so that they can keep you posted on specials and new offerings. I have never found any of them sharing lists or abusing the privilege.

 

[Rick M]

Alan and Bill,

Of the multiple addresses this retired I.T. Systems Engr. uses (based on purpose or expected type of messages), the one I provide to vendors is a totally separate provider from my address registered w/ AAW. The AAW address also takes advantage of that providers' feature which allows users to customize their basic address by tagging on unique characters handy for identifying the originator of inbound messages.

The benefit is two-fold: You can set up filters to sort inbound messages into topic-specific folders based on the modified portion of the recipient address--and you can see who's leaking your address to 3rd parties or narrow down where a spammer may have scraped up your address--as has happened here. Since I don't forward emails from AAW (outbound messages wouldn't contain the unique part anyway), or have any reason to post it online, these companies--neither of which lists an owner or employee who's an AAW member--could not have gotten my AAW-specific address by the usual means.

The vendors I'm seeing are wood suppliers--the first from KY (a familiar name to many here) and the new one from ME (previously unknown to me). They each use a different bulk email service, neither of which is the same one AAW uses, so I'd be a little surprised if competitors are sharing their lists. Unfortunately, like any other spam, once your valid address is "in the wild", the probability of receiving more spam is high, even if you've figured out who leaked it.

Times may be tough for vendors, tough enough to understand why they stopped offering AAW members specific discounts, but that doesn't justify or excuse the spam. Having been an Internet user from the time before there were web browsers, viruses, phishers, vishers, and spammers, I have a strong dislike for businesses who stoop to the same level as the other vermin on today's Web.

 

[AlanZ]

Rick,

Did I miss something in your answer?

My question was specific. Did you use the same email address for two different registrations:

• As a member of AAW (paid, card carrying members)
• As a member of this AAW forum (where anyone can join, not just AAW members)

The reason I ask this is because in your original message you stated that you used
"an address unique to my AAW membership listing"

If you used the same email address for the TWO distinctly membership different lists, then it's not a unique use... and would help indicate which list is being solicited.

 

[Rick M]

Short Answer: No

One address at AAW only, another address used elsewhee. If it helps, hypothetically call them UserAAW at provider1 is registered w/ AAW, while UserXYZ at provider2 is registered here on this forum (and elsewhere that I'd expect forum-related or certain other messages).

I don't give out "UserAAW" to anyone because it wouldn't be relevant.

Bob Salvetti apparently received the same email I did from the "new" vendor.

The first vendor may have flown under the radar of many folks' "spam detectors" because that vendor has been at various symposiums, but were not previously corresponding with me. Had I given them an address there, it would've been the "UserXYZ" address.

 

[Brian McInturff]

I've received a couple during the same time frame from those 2 vendors. One I was actually glad to get. The other I just deleted. It doesn't bother me, I get various emails I just delete.

 

[AlanZ]

Rick,

Thanks for the followup... that rules out any mechanism that could be crawling the forum software underpinnings harvesting addresses.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Rick, I appreciate your concern regardless of the innocuous nature of the solicitations received so far.

Since you elaborated on your expertise in IT, it is more evident that your original post was more of an advisory to others about potential inappropriate use of information rather than an average person's request for help to fix an email issue.

 

[egsiegel]

Alan and Bill,

...also takes advantage of that providers' feature which allows users to customize their basic address by tagging on unique characters handy for identifying the originator of inbound messages.

Can you elaborate on this feature?

 

[Rick M]

Can you elaborate on this feature?

Instead of an email "alias", a more common method that some providers offer for having an alternative name for the same inbox, this provider calls them "personalized email addresses", where it's user-managed and unlimited rather than administrator managed by the service provider.

 

[Rick M]

Deep down, what I'm bothered by is the handling of our information by those to whom it's been entrusted. I don't yet advocate that AAW make our addresses unavailable to other members, but a different professional organization to which I belong once had a member business that pilfered the organization's member directory and began spamming other members. That business no longer belongs to the organization, but I still get spam from them despite using their "opt out" (mistakenly presuming they'd be professional and honor the request). Hence the well known caveats about using "unsubscribe" links in spam email.

As for these 2 vendors, the products and info in their emails are appealing and interesting enough that I might've chosen to subscribe if they had taken a more respectful approach and offered the opportunity to "opt in" after viewing a sample of what they send and even better, a means to select how often I'd like to hear from them. They chose the low road instead, just like any other ordinary spammer.

 

[Betty Scarpino]

Deep down, what I'm bothered by is the handling of our information by those to whom it's been entrusted. I don't yet advocate that AAW make our addresses unavailable to other members, but a different professional organization to which I belong once had a member business that pilfered the organization's member directory and began spamming other members.

The AAW does not share members' contact information with any other organization or business. Yes, other members can obtain that information, through the online directory or the paper directory. So, it's conceiveable that a business might obtain members' names and email addresses from the paper (or online) directory.

I suggest that you contact the AAW office (info@woodturner.org or more directly phil@woodturner.org) with a copy of the offender's email so the business sending out SPAM can be questioned.


Betty Scarpino, editor, AW

 

[Mark Mandell]

Deep down, what I'm bothered by is the handling of our information by those to whom it's been entrusted. I don't yet advocate that AAW make our addresses unavailable to other members, but a different professional organization to which I belong once had a member business that pilfered the organization's member directory and began spamming other members. That business no longer belongs to the organization, but I still get spam from them despite using their "opt out" (mistakenly presuming they'd be professional and honor the request). Hence the well known caveats about using "unsubscribe" links in spam email.

As for these 2 vendors, the products and info in their emails are appealing and interesting enough that I might've chosen to subscribe if they had taken a more respectful approach and offered the opportunity to "opt in" after viewing a sample of what they send and even better, a means to select how often I'd like to hear from them. They chose the low road instead, just like any other ordinary spammer.

Rick,

There's been at least one instance of a copy of the AAW Resource Directory being offered for sale; not sure now whether it was E-Bay or Craigslist. Obviously, control over print copies after they leave the printer is functionally impossible for AAW. AAW would discontinue the printed Directory option, the information would be much easier to control. The web directory search mode is set up to make it very difficult for bots to pull information off the server.

Personally, I opted not to receive one because I don't wish to have to worry about shredding or recycling the book.

 

[Steven Antonucci]

Let's think about the economics of this?

Say I am a business owner and I want to get access to an audience? I can buy a marketing list for a lot of money, or join the organization for $48. Tough one.

I join the organization and get what I need, writing off the $48 as a cheap expense for 13,000 names. Less than a half penny per name. If I find one or two customers on that list, I make my money back. Is it the best strategy? Probably not if I spam 13,000 users, but there is no way to stop it.

I am sure that everyone thinks that their e-mail is a private, sacred right to their iner private lives, but that's simply not true. If you frequent any of the forums, FaceBook, or have ever gotten an e-mail from someone who does, your e-mail is probably on some list somewhere. How it got their is not really all that important. Just delete it and move on. I get 500 e-mails a week from all over the internet, and I only read the ones that I care about. The rest are just deleted as I clear my inbox, unopened.

 

[Rick M]

Betty,

Thanks for confirming my conclusion about the way AAW treats its members' info as I referenced in my opening post where I linked to the General Privacy Policy page on AAW's web site. Glad to know economic pressures haven't led to any change in policy.

Now that I've seen a few responses here that verify I'm not the only one making the same observation about these two vendors, I do plan to follow up with the good folks at the AAW Office.


Mark,

Although any systems admin will tell you the bad guys are always probing for new ways to get at your data, I suspected the printed copies of the directories were probably the weak point. Learning they've been offered for sale leaves me a little stunned. Thanks for pointing that out, and add whoever has stooped to that level to my previous list of vermin on the Web (for using it to promote their illegal ware).


Everyone Else,

Thanks for your interest and responses. The overlap of AAW members and active forum participants may represent only a small sample, but anyone else who has recently noticed unsolicited email from new sources and dislikes the practice of spammers obtaining your address surreptitiously, this is your opportunity to fight back by documenting it here so the organization can address the problem at a higher level with the vendor(s) as well as the seller(s).

 

[odie]

Choice Woods

Rare Woods USA


These are the two outfits that are suspected of using the AAW member's list.

I am getting emails from both businesses.

When Choice Woods first started emailing me their literature, I sent him a return email with my complaint. I suspected, at that time, that the AAW was his source of my email address. His response was that I had actually requested his advertisement emails, and that I could opt out of the list. I don't recall requesting the information.

ooc

 

[odie]

Choice Woods

Rare Woods USA


These are the two outfits that are suspected of using the AAW member's list.

I am getting emails from both businesses.

When Choice Woods first started emailing me their literature, I sent him a return email with my complaint. I suspected, at that time, that the AAW was his source of my email address. His response was that I had actually requested his advertisement emails, and that I could opt out of the list. I don't recall requesting the information.

ooc

Can I make a quick suggestion to Betty here?

Betty:

Is it possible for the contact information of members not to be published, but have some way to use the AAW website to forward emails from a member, to a member......?

That way, the option of giving out the email address or other contact information is still left up to the individual member.

ooc

 

[Betty Scarpino]

Can I make a quick suggestion to Betty here?

Betty:

Is it possible for the contact information of members not to be published, but have some way to use the AAW website to forward emails from a member, to a member......?

That way, the option of giving out the email address or other contact information is still left up to the individual member.

ooc

Odie, I could speculate, but it's best if instead I refer you to the operations director, Phil McDonald, phil@woodturner.org. He is aware of the problem of unauthorized use of AAW members' emails and is looking into the situation.

As editor of the journal, I am a contract employee and live in Indianapolis. The AAW business office is in Saint Paul, which is where the directory information is managed. I have limited day-to-day contact with the staff. I don't have anything to do with the membership directory. I simply happen to know a little bit, enough to occassionally get me involved. I check the Forum periodically, and I respond when I can provide helpful information about the AAW.

I have also received emails from the two businesses you mention. I never sign up for that sort of solicitation, so I suspect they got my email from a source such as the AAW directory.

A personal email to Phil McDonald with your suggestion will be responded to (give him time to respond, he's still learning the job and really busy right now preparing for the symposium). Also, a direct email to Dale Larson, President of the AAW Board, will be responded to: dale@woodturner.org.

I'm glad that you and others are being proactive. It's really only a few bad apples that spoil the sharing of personal contact information within the AAW membership.

Betty Scarpino, editor, AW

 

[ray hampton]

Choice Woods

Rare Woods USA


These are the two outfits that are suspected of using the AAW member's list.

I am getting emails from both businesses.

When Choice Woods first started emailing me their literature, I sent him a return email with my complaint. I suspected, at that time, that the AAW was his source of my email address. His response was that I had actually requested his advertisement emails, and that I could opt out of the list. I don't recall requesting the information.

ooc

I received E-MAIL from Choice Woods often and I did ask for their ads , Rare Woods also sent me a e-mail , do not know why since I eat my wood well cook [L O L ] I also receive a numbers of E-MAILS from a women only group[forgot the national name ]

 

[odie]

Betty.......thanks.

Email to Dave and Phil sent. I also sent you a pm with copy attachment.

ooc

 

[John Lawson]

Choice Woods

Rare Woods USA


These are the two outfits that are suspected of using the AAW member's list.

I am getting emails from both businesses.

When Choice Woods first started emailing me their literature, I sent him a return email with my complaint. I suspected, at that time, that the AAW was his source of my email address. His response was that I had actually requested his advertisement emails, and that I could opt out of the list. I don't recall requesting the information.

ooc

I've started getting these also. Never thought much about it, since I do a fair amount of internet purchasing, and recently registered at a couple different forums, my email address is all over the place. They don't come as frequently as most spam, so I glance at them and then delete. Hardly annoying at all compared to what comes in to our shared email account for my wife.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I bought some stuff from Choice Woods at SWAT last year and I figured that is the reason that I was getting email from them although I do not recall giving them my email address. I won't be buying anything from them this year.

 

[KellyDunn]

Now hold on here folks. I like having the print version of the directory. gives me a flip through version of a supply side vendor to check out and when I want to correspond with an AAW member I look up the email addy or phone number.
So get this. At least it was a wood related email. And not the dozens wanting to sell you viagra or asking for help in getting millions out of a represive country. And your the only one being asked. You do get a kickback if you help I have been told. So get a grip. If you dont like getting the wood supply email the phone # is right there. They say a real person will answer the phone. Ask to get your name off the list. I for one would like to get my name off every broker in New York who thinks I am a billionaire. The frickin phone calls in the middle of the night. i pissed off a broker I think and he put me on a list. The A list. Its f%$# 2am, what theF*&^% do you want? Jim? Is this Jim? Oh, I woke you up? Hey its 9am in New york. Time you got up. Hey? As long as your up.
If you dont get that crud consider yourself a very lucky woodturner who gets wood related emails.
My first name is James. I go by Kelly. No Jim lives here. I can delete an email from a source thats actually related to the lathe if it does not interest me. But hey? As long as your up check it out. They just may have a yank of wood that gets you excited.
Hey, you know me. I called you six weeks ago with a stock recomendation. How did you do on it? Its up 35% since we talked.
Its rare a caller gets that frickin far with me. 2 am its a thing from me. DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS? But hey. New York brokers.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I hope you feel better now that you have gotten that off your chest.

I got a call once at 2 AM. My wife asked who it was and I said that it must be a wrong number. It sounded like they were trying to call the weather bureau because the caller wanted to know if the coast was clear.

 

[John Altberg]

Lol

I got a call once at 2 AM. My wife asked who it was and I said that it must be a wrong number. It sounded like they were trying to call the weather bureau because the caller wanted to know if the coast was clear.

ba DUMP bump!! He'll be here all week, ladies and germs! I didn't know that the Borscht Belt had extended that far southwest, Bill!

 

[ray hampton]

I hope you feel better now that you have gotten that off your chest.

I got a call once at 2 AM. My wife asked who it was and I said that it must be a wrong number. It sounded like they were trying to call the weather bureau because the caller wanted to know if the coast was clear.

speed BUMP ahead

 

[wwlewis]

I have gotten emails from both these vendors. Much ado about nothing. So
what? You have a delete key.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I'm with the OP on this issue. When I was working, I interfaced quite a bit with our company's IT department and gained a good understanding and appreciation of their efforts to maintain data security and to keeping our intranet clean of malware and undesirable email. While things may seem innocuous enough to the average person, the method by which these two companies gathered the email information doesn't cast them in a good light. One of these companies even claimed that I had visited their website and requested to be put on their mailing list which is an outright baldfaced lie. Given that bit of information about their integrity, I doubt that they make any effort to safeguard the security of the email addresses that they obtained. I believe that the OP pointed out that once an email address gets out in the wild, the next thing that one can expect is to start receiving loads of the type of spam that nobody cares to get.

 

[David Wilkins]

I can't help but notice that each time this topic is brought up, it is the most popular thread in the forum. Shouldn't we be discussing bevel angles, curl vs burl scrape vs cut, art vs craft or perhaps design, methods to sell our work, lathes, tools accessories or even technique? It does just bother me sometimes that the things that are not relevant or important to our intended discussion are the ones people get charged up about.

 

[Choice Woods]

And They're Off

Hi ALL.... Go KY Wild Cats, (Even though I am a U of L Fan)... Did anyone have the winner of the Ky Derby? I did. Wish I had of bet some money on him..... And NO, I wasn't really riding "He's too Fat for My Back" in the derby. (The only people that will get that is if you get our news letter)....

Ok, Back to the subject at hand...I don't get on the forums much, just not enough time in the day. A friend of mine said that my name/company was being mentioned in one of the forums so I thought I would see who is talking about me. I kinda look at it if you are talking about me then you are not talking about someone else.....

I am speaking for me, Choice Woods and only Choice Woods.

Some of you are aware of our e-mail program that we have. We have a very intense, comical, (sometimes), Interesting, (maybe) miss spelled (most the time) E-mail program/ newsletter. We send them out quite often. We have a lot to tell you....Sorry....

We have received many local clubs e-mail list in exchange for gift certificates. Now....So that I will not be accused of promoting my company you will have to contact me to see how that works...We do have it set up where you can "un-subscribe" to it. Some do but most don't . With this system you have to unsubscribe yourself. It takes your name out of the e-mail program so that it can not be used again.

We buy e-mail names for woodworking magazines, "e-mail list" companies ect.
We do not know where these companies get their names and for obvious reasons they won't tell us.

We gather them also from symposiums (including AAW), woodworking shows, and various events that we attend. We are not allowed and do not use the AAW directory.

WE DO NOT SELL OUR E-MAIL NAMES TO OTHER ORGANIZATIONS. No matter who they are PERIOD.

Also thanks to Rick M for noticing that I am not in the directory. I have been a paid member since 1991 or 1992??? Not for sure why I has left out, but I was and, that makes me sad....I became a member in 1991 or 1992??? When Rude Osolnik introduced me to woodturning. You say you don't know the name? Google him. Amazing, fabulous, caring, mentor. Didn't care if you had a pot-to-pee-in. If you like woodturning and wasn't a know-it-all he was your friend. And a true one..... I wish we had some like him.

So I just wanted to clear the air about Choice Woods. If anyone else gets bored and can't think of any woodturning subjects to talk about I give you permission to talk about us. Just every once in a while say something nice.

See ya and have a great day,
Clay Johnson

 

[egsiegel]

At least it was a wood related email. And not the dozens wanting to sell you viagra...

I will leave the jokes up to you :cool2:

 

[Owen Lowe]

We have received many local clubs e-mail list in exchange for gift certificates.

Well now, that's something I hadn't considered. I guess we should all check with our chapter officers to voice support or objection to this.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Well now, that's something I hadn't considered. I guess we should all check with our chapter officers to voice support or objection to this.

Our club discussed this sometime last year and the consensus was that the membership didn't want more email that they personally did not specifically request from a business. The feeling seemed to be that folks thought that "opting-in" was the "right" way to do things and the notion of "opting out" seemed to generally raise folks blood pressure a couple notches.

Clay, I humbly retract what I said about not doing business with you in the future (I have to admit that it was a big lie anyway as I can't stay away from the vendors at SWAT). Choice Woods helped substantially lighten my wallet last year and I happily staggered away with a load of goodies, I probably won't fare much better come August of this year.

I would encourage you when talking with businesses that provide you with email contact lists that you (and, by extension, your customers) feel satisfied that they do not use questionable practices to obtain this information. Just as in the case of trying to insure that imported exotic hardwoods are harvested in a sustainable manner, I think that this is another situation where a policy of "don't ask, don't tell" is not a good component of one's business model.

 

[Mark Mandell]

There's an easy remedy to most of this. Pick an on-line email service with a good spamblocker feature, then set the blocker to "nuke" level and "self-clean" on short interval. The only email you'll receive will be from senders whose addresses you have pre-authorized, and you can actually block entire domains that are being used by the spammers. I get nothing with an "ru" on the end of it.

Now, if I could just do that for the damn phone . . .

 

[Rick M]

Now that I'm back in town after a few days away, I see there's been a bit more activity on this thread, including a response from one of the vendors.

I appreciate the sincerity and explanation how someone's address potentially ended up on their list. For many--even most--addresses, I'll grant there's a plausible method by which they have your address. In my case however, the address being used by these 2 vendors has only been in use for about 6 months and as stated previously, used nowhere but where I updated my prior address in the AAW Member Directory.

As a wood vendor, I'll give Clay the benefit of a doubt and accept his explanation on face value--as he understands the process. OTOH, as an I.T. person, I'll posit that the only other avenue remaining for that data to have gotten onto these 2 lists (if not more) would be through back door deals between AAW's bulk email service company, Constant Contact, and the respective vendors' bulk emailers. OK, it's possible these bulk emailers obtained a printed copy of the directory, but IMO the likelihood seems remote by comparison.

For everyone whose email paradigm consists of clicking to read or delete everything that shows up in a single inbox, that's fine because that's what works for you. Others who have organized a different system for handling email do so because that's what works for them. A thread like this gets the attention it does because everyone should be interested in what happens to their data regardless how innocuous or sensitive the breach in handling. And that was the purpose behind the Original Post. The other threads here do a fine job of handling the specifics of turning itself, but every thread here is AAW, member, or turning related.

 

[Rick M]

. . .Now, if I could just do that for the damn phone . . .

So true! We've got ineffective Do Not Call lists and laws out the wazoo, but where's the avenue to report offenders (especially robo callers and vishers) and see some enforcement!!! (But that's a topic for another forum.)