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Amperage Considerations when Wiring for 220/230 Volts 1ph

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Apologies in advance for the length, but I'm especially interested in hearing from anyone whose shop has more than a single 220 volt connection dedicated to a lathe or other piece of machinery.

Scenario
Shop space is currently an attached 2-car garage with 3 walls approx 20 feet each in which I'm going to add circuits for 220/230 volt operation. FWIW, a lightly utilized 150-amp subpanel is already installed in 1 wall, added a few years ago in anticipation of wiring the space for shop use.

For setup flexibility to adjust workspace as needed, most--if not all machinery (including wife's kiln)--will be movable via casters, mobile bases, etc.

Preferences
I plan to put 2 outlets per wall per circuit (knowing not to exceed any single circuit ampacity for 2 or more devices operating simultaneously). All together, I'd like to run about 4 separate 220v circuits, but could run more if necessary (within code, but for discussion purposes not addressed in this post).

What's Clear
Power cords, plugs, and outlets will correspond to NEMA types associated with amp ratings for each circuit's wiring and breaker.

Motors for single-phase 230v equipment require higher starting current, necessitating significantly higher amperage circuits than they draw during operation.

If kiln is in operation, it's 50-amp circuit will not have any other devices plugged in, avoiding the risk of interrupting a firing. Motorized shop equipment may utilize this circuit if the kiln is not in use.

A second 50-amp circuit will be installed to operate other equipment while the kiln is in use. (Outlets will be ID'd according to circuit.)

Murky Issue #1
The Manual for a soon to be delivered bandsaw with a 5hp motor stipulates connecting to a 50-amp circuit. Considering a worst-case scenario, the Manual for a potential future piece, a planer also having a 5hp motor, stipulates a 60-amp circuit. Granted, during normal operation I understand a planer may be subjected to heavier loading / higher amp draw than a bandsaw, but one reference I have indicates a 28 amp draw for a 5hp motor (when not under load, I presume). This planer does not show a second, smaller motor for the feedrollers (as I've seen elsewhere), so the need for 60 amps instead of 50 is not clear.

Do I really need to consider installing a 60-amp circuit, too, or take a "wait and see" stance? The planned 50-amp circuit(s) could be wired with heavier gauge wire and breaker to handle 60 amps, but there's no 60-amp NEMA plug/outlet combination like those for 50-amps and less.

Murky Issue #2
A 1.75hp dust collector's Manual specs a 20-amp circuit for 230v operation (or 30 amps for 115v). Even higher up the Planned Acquisitions List than the planer is a lathe with a 2hp motor (recommended circuit amperage unknown until I check with the manufacturer).

Knowing that some future lathe might even have a 3hp motor, and many of you already have such lathes, what amperage(s) should I consider installing as Circuits #3 and #4?
 

Bill Boehme

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Preferences
I plan to put 2 outlets per wall per circuit (knowing not to exceed any single circuit ampacity for 2 or more devices operating simultaneously). All together, I'd like to run about 4 separate 220v circuits, but could run more if necessary (within code, but for discussion purposes not addressed in this post).

No, put only one receptacle per circuit breaker. If you want more receptacles, you will need to have each on a dedicated breaker for stationary equipment (the fact that you might put it on rollers is immaterial). The reason for this requirement is to prevent someone from simultaneously running two machines on the same circuit. While you might know not to do this, somewhere down the road, someone else will be living in your house and they won't know about any non-compliant wiring.

You may be thinking of general purpose 120 volt receptacles or lighting where you can daisy chain as many devices as you please (actually this may have been modified, but I no longer actively follow the NEC updates.

The owners manual for the equipment will probably also state that the equipment shall be on a dedicated circuit.

What's Clear
Motors for single-phase 230v equipment require higher starting current, necessitating significantly higher amperage circuits than they draw during operation.

True, but you do not need to worry about it. The nameplate on the motor will give the requirements for what ampacity circuit to use. Circuit breakers are designed for momentary overloads of even several times the indicated rating.

If kiln is in operation, it's 50-amp circuit will not have any other devices plugged in, avoiding the risk of interrupting a firing. Motorized shop equipment may utilize this circuit if the kiln is not in use.

As previously mentioned, do not use more than one receptacle per branch circuit. You might decide to share one single receptacle for several pieces of equipment -- just make sure that the equipment is intended for the ampacity of the circuit being used. In other words, it is not good practice to plug a machine requiring a 30 A service into a branch circuit with a 50 A breaker. Functionally, it is OK, but it doesn't provide protection to the equipment and might possibly not be in compliance with code requirements for dedicated machinery circuits.

A second 50-amp circuit will be installed to operate other equipment while the kiln is in use. (Outlets will be ID'd according to circuit.)

There is nothing other than breaker panel space (and money) to prevent you from installing as many separate 240 volt branch circuits of whatever ampacity is needed. Of course, to prevent tripping the main breaker, you should determine the maximum load scenario for he entire panel. Will everything including lighting, fan, heater, air conditioner, dust collectors, shop vac, and greatest likely simultaneous load from ww machines be within the limits of your panel?

Murky Issue #1
The Manual for a soon to be delivered bandsaw with a 5hp motor stipulates connecting to a 50-amp circuit. Considering a worst-case scenario, the Manual for a potential future piece, a planer also having a 5hp motor, stipulates a 60-amp circuit. Granted, during normal operation I understand a planer may be subjected to heavier loading / higher amp draw than a bandsaw, but one reference I have indicates a 28 amp draw for a 5hp motor (when not under load, I presume). This planer does not show a second, smaller motor for the feedrollers (as I've seen elsewhere), so the need for 60 amps instead of 50 is not clear.

Do I really need to consider installing a 60-amp circuit, too, or take a "wait and see" stance? The planned 50-amp circuit(s) could be wired with heavier gauge wire and breaker to handle 60 amps, but there's no 60-amp NEMA plug/outlet combination like those for 50-amps and less.

If the manual says you need a 60 A feed, then that is what you need. Starting current for different motors varies considerably, but is typically 4 to 6 times the FLA (full-load amps when the motor is delivering its full rated horsepower). Also, the efficiency of motors varies widely so one motor might require 25% more electrical power for the same mechanical power output. The 28 Amps that you saw would be a typical FLA of a 5 HP 240 volt single phase AC induction motor. You normally would not encounter the no load current, but it is roughly around 30 - 40% of FLA, but that number is very dependent upon the motor design.

The "SAW WARS" has resulted in bandsaw motor horsepower ratings getting rather extreme. I thought that the motor on my MiniMax MM-16 was excessive at 3.6 HP when I got it eight years ago, but I see that they have long since gone way beyond that point.

Murky Issue #2
A 1.75hp dust collector's Manual specs a 20-amp circuit for 230v operation (or 30 amps for 115v). Even higher up the Planned Acquisitions List than the planer is a lathe with a 2hp motor (recommended circuit amperage unknown until I check with the manufacturer).

A 2 HP motor is likely to need a 20 A breaker, but could require a 30 HP breaker especially if it uses inverter drive for the motor, which most larger lathes now do.

Knowing that some future lathe might even have a 3hp motor, and many of you already have such lathes, what amperage(s) should I consider installing as Circuits #3 and #4?

That is getting into the "Tim the toolman Taylor" realm. :D I did consider a 3 HP motor for my Robust American Beauty, but decided that I need to draw a line somewhere. So far, I have not even come close to taxing the capability of 2 HP motor on the lathe. Someday, I might wish that I had gone for a 3 HP model, but I doubt it.
 
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Thanks Bill, for taking the time to digest and dissect my post. From your feedback, it looks like the level of flexibility I was aiming to achieve requires a different approach that the one I was planning.

Preferences
I plan to put 2 outlets per wall per circuit (knowing not to exceed any single circuit ampacity for 2 or more devices operating simultaneously). All together, I'd like to run about 4 separate 220v circuits, but could run more if necessary (within code, but for discussion purposes not addressed in this post).
No, put only one receptacle per circuit breaker. If you want more receptacles, you will need to have each on a dedicated breaker for stationary equipment (the fact that you might put it on rollers is immaterial). The reason for this requirement is to prevent someone from simultaneously running two machines on the same circuit. While you might know not to do this, somewhere down the road, someone else will be living in your house and they won't know about any non-compliant wiring.

You may be thinking of general purpose 120 volt receptacles or lighting where you can daisy chain as many devices as you please (actually this may have been modified, but I no longer actively follow the NEC updates.

The owners manual for the equipment will probably also state that the equipment shall be on a dedicated circuit.
Yes, the daisy-chained equivalent of 120v circuits was the main driving thought. Another thought was any future owner who ignored the circuit labels would soon realize his folly when the associated breaker trips in conjunction with energizing the 2nd machine.

I took the "dedicated circuit" mentioned in the Owner's Manuals as more a recommendation than a requirement, but I understand your points.


What's Clear
Motors for single-phase 230v equipment require higher starting current, necessitating significantly higher amperage circuits than they draw during operation.
True, but you do not need to worry about it. The nameplate on the motor will give the requirements for what ampacity circuit to use. Circuit breakers are designed for momentary overloads of even several times the indicated rating.
Lightning and other transients measured in milliseconds aside, I'm aware of the differences with the "overcurrent vs. time" response characteristics of breakers compared to fuses, but in the planer scenario I wasn't certain how a 50 amp breaker might respond to current drawn at startup. As you point out, I'll let the nameplate determine the circuit's requirements, although I have only the description in the Owner's Manual for now.


If kiln is in operation, it's 50-amp circuit will not have any other devices plugged in, avoiding the risk of interrupting a firing. Motorized shop equipment may utilize this circuit if the kiln is not in use.
As previously mentioned, do not use more than one receptacle per branch circuit. You might decide to share one single receptacle for several pieces of equipment -- just make sure that the equipment is intended for the ampacity of the circuit being used. In other words, it is not good practice to plug a machine requiring a 30 A service into a branch circuit with a 50 A breaker. Functionally, it is OK, but it doesn't provide protection to the equipment and might possibly not be in compliance with code requirements for dedicated machinery circuits.
That's why I referenced matching the NEMA plug and outlet types to the amperage rating of the circuit's breaker and wiring. Going forward, I'd be inclined to run wiring rated for 60 amps on 50- and 60-amp circuits, and wire for 30 amps on 20- and 30-amp circuits, adjusting plugs, outlets, and breakers as appropriate for the machine.


A second 50-amp circuit will be installed to operate other equipment while the kiln is in use. (Outlets will be ID'd according to circuit.)
There is nothing other than breaker panel space (and money) to prevent you from installing as many separate 240 volt branch circuits of whatever ampacity is needed. Of course, to prevent tripping the main breaker, you should determine the maximum load scenario for he entire panel. Will everything including lighting, fan, heater, air conditioner, dust collectors, shop vac, and greatest likely simultaneous load from ww machines be within the limits of your panel?
Prior to adding the 150-amp subpanel, there were already a few circuits off the main panel for items in the garage, and they're still in use. The subpanel capacity was chosen at the time by rough estimate of additional needs for shop use (although not so many 240v circuits), therefore everything added is done with that total 150 amp limit in mind, including what woodworking equipment the only operator will choose to energize simultaneously.

With your suggestions in mind, it looks like I'll have to plan for more circuits, within limits of space, cost, and avoiding turning the studs into Swiss cheese.


Murky Issue #1
The Manual for a soon to be delivered bandsaw with a 5hp motor stipulates connecting to a 50-amp circuit. Considering a worst-case scenario, the Manual for a potential future piece, a planer also having a 5hp motor, stipulates a 60-amp circuit. Granted, during normal operation I understand a planer may be subjected to heavier loading / higher amp draw than a bandsaw, but one reference I have indicates a 28 amp draw for a 5hp motor (when not under load, I presume). This planer does not show a second, smaller motor for the feedrollers (as I've seen elsewhere), so the need for 60 amps instead of 50 is not clear.

Do I really need to consider installing a 60-amp circuit, too, or take a "wait and see" stance? The planned 50-amp circuit(s) could be wired with heavier gauge wire and breaker to handle 60 amps, but there's no 60-amp NEMA plug/outlet combination like those for 50-amps and less.
If the manual says you need a 60 A feed, then that is what you need. Starting current for different motors varies considerably, but is typically 4 to 6 times the FLA (full-load amps when the motor is delivering its full rated horsepower). Also, the efficiency of motors varies widely so one motor might require 25% more electrical power for the same mechanical power output. The 28 Amps that you saw would be a typical FLA of a 5 HP 240 volt single phase AC induction motor. You normally would not encounter the no load current, but it is roughly around 30 - 40% of FLA, but that number is very dependent upon the motor design.

The "SAW WARS" has resulted in bandsaw motor horsepower ratings getting rather extreme. I thought that the motor on my MiniMax MM-16 was excessive at 3.6 HP when I got it eight years ago, but I see that they have long since gone way beyond that point.
Once I started woodturning, it didn't take long to begin bumping into the limits of my 70's era 12" Craftsman, and bumping up to a 14" didn't seem like it would justify the investment. A recent Black Friday sale price on an 18" I had been contemplating was my downfall, triggering the need to prepare for a future that includes more 230v machinery, while the interior walls are still open and studs accessible.


Murky Issue #2
A 1.75hp dust collector's Manual specs a 20-amp circuit for 230v operation (or 30 amps for 115v). Even higher up the Planned Acquisitions List than the planer is a lathe with a 2hp motor (recommended circuit amperage unknown until I check with the manufacturer).
A 2 HP motor is likely to need a 20 A breaker, but could require a 30 HP breaker especially if it uses inverter drive for the motor, which most larger lathes now do.

Knowing that some future lathe might even have a 3hp motor, and many of you already have such lathes, what amperage(s) should I consider installing as Circuits #3 and #4?
That is getting into the "Tim the toolman Taylor" realm. :D I did consider a 3 HP motor for my Robust American Beauty, but decided that I need to draw a line somewhere. So far, I have not even come close to taxing the capability of 2 HP motor on the lathe. Someday, I might wish that I had gone for a 3 HP model, but I doubt it.
I already described my revised ideas for wiring sizes paired with plugs, outlets, and breakers, so will close by saying again how much I appreciate your feedback--including your perceptions regarding your Robust lathe.

Wandering OT now, Summer of 2010, I spent a week turning on an American Beauty (as well as another week on a OneWay), although I don't recall the HP of either. I'm drawn to Robust's Sweet 16 for it's versatility and additional capability compared to my current lathe. A 2hp motor is available on the Sweet 16, making my only question centered on whether 2hp is sufficient for bowl coring (if I decided to start coring)?
 
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Wandering OT now, Summer of 2010, I spent a week turning on an American Beauty (as well as another week on a OneWay), although I don't recall the HP of either. I'm drawn to Robust's Sweet 16 for it's versatility and additional capability compared to my current lathe. A 2hp motor is available on the Sweet 16, making my only question centered on whether 2hp is sufficient for bowl coring (if I decided to start coring)?

I'll just say that I routinely do bowl coring (McNaughton System) with a 2 HP Jet 1642 lathe (16" swing), and I have had no problems coring up to 15" blanks. I don't know if or how a 20" American Beauty would differ from a 16" lathe in terms of additional torque required for larger blanks, but I suspect 2 HP would be sufficient. If you're going "Sweet 16", I think it should be fine.

Rob Wallace
 
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Wiring

One must remember that the building's circuit breaker (or fuse) is intended to protect the wiring and the building and not the equipment connected to the circuit. Each machine or other equipment must be designed to protect itself and not depend upon the house wiring. The deisgner can only control what he ships. He can recommend the characteristics desired for the building wiiring but he has no control over it. There is a strict seperation of responsibility between the equipment and the building wiring that meet at the power connection between the equipment and building wiring.
John Giem
 

hockenbery

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Rick,

2 hp on a sweet sixteen should be plenty of power for coring for a modest number of bowls.
If you are doing salad bowls you will core a 12" out of a 14" bowl and a 10" out of the 12 and dry them.
The coring kerf will run a bit over a 1/4.
You also get and 8" core that you can use for something.

You will learn the speed and feed rate of the coring that doesn't slow the lathe.


Remember you loose 2" of swing for the tool rest banjo. So the largest core you do routinely will be the 12" from the 14" bowl.
I've turned 11 3/4 bowls on a 12 lathe by unmounting the bowl to move the tool rest from one side of the rim to the other and then remounting the bowl. This fine once in a while.



Now if you plan to core hundreds of bowls a year get a 3 hp
If you want to turn 16" bowls get a 20, 24, or 25" lathe.
 
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No, put only one receptacle per circuit breaker. If you want more receptacles, you will need to have each on a dedicated breaker for stationary equipment (the fact that you might put it on rollers is immaterial). The reason for this requirement is to prevent someone from simultaneously running two machines on the same circuit. While you might know not to do this, somewhere down the road, someone else will be living in your house and they won't know about any non-compliant wiring.

Bill,
I have three 220v tools pigtailed off one wall mounted junction box with 10 (or maybe 12) gauge "extension cords" hard wired to the box. The wire from the breaker to the wall box is 10 gauge. I would not argue whether this meets NEC, it probably does not, but I live way out in the boonies and inspectors are rarely seen around here.:) Even so I try not to do something that is totally foolish.

I am curious to know if you see any practical problem or risk with this arrangement. The breaker amp rating is higher than the combined load of all three tools (even though I rarely run more than one at once). I have been using this set up for 2-3 years.

Seems to me that so long as the wiring is adequate the worst that would happen would be a tripped breaker, and that has not happened yet. I see your point that running a tool on a circuit with a breaker that is rated too high may not be a great idea. But I'm not convinced that is a big enough problem to worry about.

I'd appreciate your thoughts.
 
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Your points are good, John, but note I didn't advocate undersizing any of the wiring or oversizing any breakers. My initial ideas may have been possible electrically, but good practice takes precedent even if it means less configuration flexibility than I first sought.

Rob, Al, and others offering feedback on the Sweet 16 and it's option for a 2hp motor might be interested to know that it's got a 16 inch swing in its default configuration, but can transition into a 32 inch capacity gap bed bowl lathe in an alternate configuration. Not sure I can quite yet see myself wrestling a 30+ inch blank into position, but something bigger than 16 is a definite possibility and if it's a great piece of wood, the option to do some coring might be very appealing.

Being a patient type, I can handle going slow and easy if it's only a matter of skill and feed rate of the coring tools into the wood, but if larger diameters noticeably bog things down without hogging into the blank, I don't want to abuse the lathe motor (and controls), whatever its size.

While I've found more comments on the web about the American Beauty than the Sweet 16, they've all been very favorable regardless which lathe. I just haven't found any that address coring. Maybe I should have asked what's the largest size blank anyone here regularly cores with a 2hp motored lathe of any brand/model?
 
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Bill Boehme

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One must remember that the building's circuit breaker (or fuse) is intended to protect the wiring and the building and not the equipment connected to the circuit.

Very true in most situations, but I believe that "fixed appliances" and other permanently wired dedicated machines have provisions tied to motor ratings, heating elements, etc. My knowledge in this area is somewhat rusty since it has been around 35 years since I took a Master Electricians course and never actually worked in the electrical contracting field. I stayed abrest of NEC updates for about 15 years.

Bill,
I have three 220v tools pigtailed off one wall mounted junction box with 10 (or maybe 12) gauge "extension cords" hard wired to the box. The wire from the breaker to the wall box is 10 gauge. I would not argue whether this meets NEC, it probably does not, but I live way out in the boonies and inspectors are rarely seen around here.:) Even so I try not to do something that is totally foolish.

I have seen things a lot worse than that which worked from a strictly electrical point of view. As far as the code requirements are concerned, they have very little to do with what will work elecrically -- its emphasis is completely oriented towards fire and shock safety. Your wiring arrangement is not a problem for you, but if you or your estate eventually sell the house, it is likely that a lender will require an inspection of the wiring regardless of whether there are any local ordinances. Also, if there is ever a fire in the home, the insurance company may deny any claim if they find code violations in the wiring, regardless of the original cause of the fire (it is their mission to figure out how to weasel out of paying a claim). There is likely to be some future owner of the home who will have no knowledge of any "special" wiring. Whether that causes a problem is anybody's guess, but there is the potential. It doesn't cost much to do things according to code if there is enough panel space to add breakers.

Why it is important to have wiring and breaker sizes "match"? -- it is probably obvious why we should not use wiring that is undersized for the breaker, but having wiring that is oversized for the breaker can lead to erroneous assumptions and confusion about which breaker in a panel goes to what outlets. I was nearly electrocuted by someone turning off the wrong breaker once when I needed to work on a branch circuit to a range.

... While I've found more comments on the web about the American Beauty than the Sweet 16, they've all been very favorable regardless which lathe. I just haven't found any that address coring. Maybe I should have asked what's the largest size blank anyone here regularly cores with a 2hp motored lathe of any brand/model?

When I was at SWAT in August, one of the Robust lathes that was being delivered to a customer was set up next to the Sanding Glove and demonstrating the Steve Sinner hollowing rig. The log being hollowed had an inside diameter of about a foot if memory serves me correctly and the vessel being hollowed was around a yard tall. While this is not coring, they were doing some really aggressive hollowing. At the same time, Johannes Michelsen did a bit of coring as part of his hat turning demo on the Robust that was delivered to me. My Robust is the 2 HP version.
 
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Bill,
Thanks for your comments. I failed to mention that my shop is a free standing building several hundred yards from my house. I still do not wish to have it catch fire, but it is a little different. If it were attached to my home I would definitely have a more conservative attitude.

Rick,
Let us know when you get to where you can't live with a 2hp lathe. I wanna see what you are turning.:)

Of course to be honest, not planning ahead like you are is why I jerry rigged my 220v circuits. When I originally wired my shop I was happy with a 1.5 hp, 120v lathe. Three years later I just couldn't resist the opportunity to buy that 2hp Stubby. Which by the way, I haven't stalled but one time. That was when I got too aggressive roughing a 28" beech platter blank. Also, I have cored several 12"-16" bowl blanks without stalling it. I have other learning problems with coring, but lathe power isn't one of them.
 
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Why it is important to have wiring and breaker sizes "match"? -- it is probably obvious why we should not use wiring that is undersized for the breaker, but having wiring that is oversized for the breaker can lead to erroneous assumptions and confusion about which breaker in a panel goes to what outlets. I was nearly electrocuted by someone turning off the wrong breaker once when I needed to work on a branch circuit to a range.

I've received a couple of memorable tingles over the decades, but nothing close to electrocution unless I count that close encounter with a bolt of lightning--which fortunately had less effect afterward than the tingles. Even for my own electrical repairs and installations, I operate the breaker(s) myself and verify with a light and/or meter before proceeding. I'd be confident guessing your procedure has been revised as a result of that experience.
 
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Rick,
Let us know when you get to where you can't live with a 2hp lathe. I wanna see what you are turning.:)

Of course to be honest, not planning ahead like you are is why I jerry rigged my 220v circuits. When I originally wired my shop I was happy with a 1.5 hp, 120v lathe. Three years later I just couldn't resist the opportunity to buy that 2hp Stubby. Which by the way, I haven't stalled but one time. That was when I got too aggressive roughing a 28" beech platter blank. Also, I have cored several 12"-16" bowl blanks without stalling it. I have other learning problems with coring, but lathe power isn't one of them.

Good info. Thanks.
 
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Plenty of good advice already posted.

Since I am usually the only one working in my shop, I didn't give much thought to wiring it to accommodate a bunch of tools running simultaneously. But my 220V stuff (lathe and dust collector) are on dedicated breakers and circuits. My ceiling mounted air cleaner is on it's own circuit, all ceiling lights are on their own circuit, and I have several 110v, 20A circuits around the perimeter of my 24x16 shop.
 
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