Radios and Lathes

[Ted Mellin]

Just wondering if anyone else has the same problem as I do. When I turn on my lathe my shop radio changes to static and painful to listen to. Just wondering what causes this problem and if there is any way to fix it. Have tried a couple of different radios with similar results. Thanks for any input - Ted

 

[Syd Sellers]

Radio Noise

Ted, two things come to mind, your lathe motor controller is generating RF due to the way it's made or your lathe motor has carbon brushes that maybe starting to arc and this generates RF that bugs your radio. Check your brushes on the motor...

Has this just started or has it been a problem ever since you purchased this lathe??

 

[Steve Harder]

If your lathe is variable speed with a knob controller it likely has a variable frequency drive - which are notorious for rf noise which makes any am radio unuseable - and can affect fm also. Mine certainly does.

There are filters you can buy but I doubt they would do much good. Have to switch to a CD player, or computer laptop getting the online broadcast of whatever you are trying to listen to.

 

[Ron Solfest]

Or get a new lathe

 

[Gynia]

The RFI filter on my lathe works great. The filter needs to be inserted close to the source of the interference. Knowing how to do that can be an issue. Oneway offers an RFI filter for the lathes that make. They provide instruction on how to hook it up on Oneway lathes. Other manufactures may be able to help with the placement of an RFI filter.

Placement of the radio and radio antenna can help.

The interference is usually reduced by distance from the lathe. You might be able to play the radio in a distant room in the house and run a speaker into your shop. You can get a volume control from radio shack.

 

[Bill Boehme]

It is one of those things where the buck doesn't seem to stop anywhere. Inverter manufacturers have a legal loophole that allows them to say that it is a system integration problem that is the responsibility of the machine manufacturer since they have no control over the motor, wiring length and type, and shielding. While they have valid points to a limited extent, on the smaller consumer grade inverters, I have not seen much in the way of design guidelines for the OEM System Integrator.

There really are not any effective user installable filters for most inverters to mitigate the issue (there are some exceptions). The solution usually involves equipment shielding and in some cases wiring shielding. Shielding is not a trivial matter if you really need to eliminate EMI (electromagnetic interference) and EMS (electromagnetic susceptibility). Line and load reactors are two auxiliary items often used with inverters, but they do not address interference issues. Line reactors are used for certain types of line impedance issues and load reactors are primarily used when the distance between inverter and motor is very long (typically greater than 100 feet) in order to reduce ringing on the line.

As you might expect, the cheap consumer type inverters are usually the worst with respect to radiated and conducted noise. Sometimes changing the PWM frequency will help (the PWM frequency is the carrier frequency for the power that is delivered to the motor's windings. This frequency is usually set somewhere between 2.5 and 8 kHz. There are, however, some performance tradeoffs in changing the frequency. One caution that I would give is to never use a so-called interference filter, such as you might find at Radio Shack on the inverter because they could potentially damage the inverter.

You can do some investigating to find out whether the interference is radiated or conducted. FM is less susceptible to radiated interference than AM. If you have a battery powered receiver that is not plugged in and still gets interference, then it is radiated and the best solution would be to use an external antenna located as far from the inverter as necessary to reduce the interference to an acceptable level. Otherwise, the interference is most likely conducted and you might be able to reduce it by finding another outlet to plug the radio into. This is a case where the aforementioned filter might do some good, but make certain that it is used on the receiver and not the inverter.

 

[n7bsn]

First, no lathe has to conform to the Federal regulations on RFI (Radio Frequency Interference). Since the assumption is, they are not "consumer" items, unlike say TV's, Computers or light-switches. So most of them produce lots of crap.

So we get lathes (and other wood-working tools) that trash radio and TV reception.

My Nova DRV-XP just trashes both my AM radio and the Ham (SSB) radios. But causes no interference to the FM. This interference is "broadcast" by the lathe (it also trashes the radios in the cars)

The lathe also trashed "old" (analog) TV, but the new digital TV broadcasts are not effected.

 

[waltben]

There's the very simple solution of just putting some distance between the inverter/motor/lathe and your radio. My shop radio is about 20' away and hung on peg hooks about six feet up. My lathe is a Stubby, 220v single phase, older Eurotherm controller, and I get no noise on the old cassette playing boom box I use, no matter spindle speed.

I've a second small shop in my basement that has a CD boom box about eight feet from my Delta midi. Radio reception is very poor there, but the few times I've tried it I have gotten noise from the Delta, but not all that loud. CDs aren't bothered at all.

 

[MichaelMouse]

I think listening to the the wood is good. Changes in tone, or a click from a newly revealed fault can get early investigation and adjudication then. I whistle occasionally, but only when turning. Mask gets in the way sanding.

 

[odie]

My cheapie little shop radio is close to the lathe, and it has plenty of static when the lathe is in motion.

It looks like there are a number of possible solutions to the static issue being discussed in this thread, but for me, I simply ignore the radio when the lathe is running. As I see it, this is an issue of safety, in a way. Besides the safety aspects, it's also an issue of me producing the highest level of excellence I am capable of.....and I need an uninfluenced mental effort for this to happen consistently. I don't want my concentration diverted by anything outside of what's happening on the lathe, and the radio will do just that. The radio is never on anything but a very low volume anyway, and it makes less noise than the lathe running......so, it's really easy to ignore whatever low volume static is being broadcast. When I turn off the lathe, the radio is there, and can be heard again.....and, I no longer require that level of concentration.

The radio is never tuned to background music, but strictly to talk programing......so, this is definitely an issue of concentration for me. Others may wish to hear the radio when their lathe is running, and that's fine by me......only relating my own thoughts that apply to myself, and not necessarily to anyone else.

ooc

 

[TJ Hamilton]

Another alternative is to listen to the radio through a smart phone and headphones using one of the "radio" apps.

No static and no noise from the dust collector.

Just a thought, Tom, in Douglasville, headphones and radio...ON!

 

[Syd Sellers]

Radio Noise.

Seems this is a huge problem. Grounding maybe part of the solution. Make sure everything is grounded to your electrical service
I use XM Satellite Radio and it sits just above my lathe which has a VF drive. No problems at all.

 

[David Wilkins]

When I set up my shop, the radio was thought of too. I can listen to fm, there are no more am stations in this city. I also set up a 1/8 jack for input, meaning anything that outputs to earbuds can play through the system. I use my ipod, a little over 14 days of music there with no interference, and I can stream from countless sources. If the laundry sink I had installed was heavier duty I wouldn't have to go upstairs.

 

[egsiegel]

When I use my lathe my wife can't listen to AM radio anywhere in the house or out by the pool. I'd love to find a way to filter this.

 

[ray hampton]

how close to the lathe can your radio been before the static cuts in ? A M radio will pick up static from a storm that are close-by ,if you need a weather radio

 

[n7bsn]

When I use my lathe my wife can't listen to AM radio anywhere in the house or out by the pool. I'd love to find a way to filter this.

I'm guessing the answer is nothing. If it's like the NOVA-DVR I have, it broadcasts RFI through the air. It's a distance thing, far enough away and there is no problem.

 

[egsiegel]

I'm guessing the answer is nothing. If it's like the NOVA-DVR I have, it broadcasts RFI through the air. It's a distance thing, far enough away and there is no problem.

nope...AM radio anywhere in the house or out by the pool turns to static when I'm turning. I have to assume it is something in the electrical line when when lathe is on.

 

[n7bsn]

nope...AM radio anywhere in the house or out by the pool turns to static when I'm turning. I have to assume it is something in the electrical line when when lathe is on.

Does it also affect your car radio? If so, it' a broadcast thing.

Common-mod (ie power-line) is easy to fix. If it's a 110 lathe, just get any power-strip with RFI/EMI installed ($30 or $40). A 220 lathe is tougher as commercial chokes for them are harder to find

 

[hughie]

Ipod or its equivelent is what I use set to random play

 

[john lucas]

It seems to affect AM radio from what I hear. I never listen to that so I wouldn't know. I have heard that Oneway has some sort of filter that can be installed. I think I've heard about Powermatic mentioning the same thing. Anyone know if this is fact.

 

[egsiegel]

Does it also affect your car radio? If so, it' a broadcast thing.

Common-mod (ie power-line) is easy to fix. If it's a 110 lathe, just get any power-strip with RFI/EMI installed ($30 or $40). A 220 lathe is tougher as commercial chokes for them are harder to find

never tried the car radio...don't drive much while I'm turning :cool2:

I'll look into the power strip. thanks

 

[n7bsn]

never tried the car radio...don't drive much while I'm turning :cool2:

I'll look into the power strip. thanks

Just to be clear, if you can hear the noise on your Auto radio, a power strip or other RFI/EMI power line filter is going to do NOTHING.

The issue is the circuits inside your lathe are generating RFI and broadcasting it like a radio station. They only solution would be building a shield around that part of the lathe (tough to do, after the lathe is designed and built)

 

[egsiegel]

Just to be clear, if you can hear the noise on your Auto radio, a power strip or other RFI/EMI power line filter is going to do NOTHING.

The issue is the circuits inside your lathe are generating RFI and broadcasting it like a radio station. They only solution would be building a shield around that part of the lathe (tough to do, after the lathe is designed and built)

Interesting.
I have to ask my wife if the shower radio (battery powerd) has the problem.
the Lathe is a Jet 1642 (110v model). You would think others would be complaining if it was a design issue.

 

[ray hampton]

static on AM radio and television sets from power tools and motor buses have been a problem since the 1960, and the problem is still not fixed

 

[Dick Hines]

I have no trouble with FM but AM is out of the question. I left my lathe running so a piece would dry with no runs and went to the store up the road. When I got back to my drive way, 250 ft from the shop, I could hear the pops on my AM radio in my truck.

I have always wondered how many radios in the area I am messing up.

 

[AlanZ]

I tried a pair of shop ear muffs today that have a radio built in.

When I was tuned to an AM station and then turned on my wife's Delta 46-460 lathe, the static was overwhelming.

However, then I turned on my Nova DVR XP, there was no interference at all.

 

[MichaelMouse]

I tried a pair of shop ear muffs today that have a radio built in.
When I was tuned to an AM station and then turned on my wife's Delta 46-460 lathe, the static was overwhelming.
However, then I turned on my Nova DVR XP, there was no interference at all.

Nor would there have been any with a regular induction run motor. You're hearing the broadcast from the brushes on the DC motor. As mentioned far above, no solution for that. One of the joys of sanding with the induction motor I use was that the kids never had their (broadcast) TV messed up. A universal motor as on a drill would have done it.

Only real solution for over-the-air FM, if your machine interferes, is to shield and shunt. Problem is that a proper shield will be a dust collector as well. As the discussion wanders, it's well to remember the fundamentals.

 

[AlanZ]

Michael,

The reason I mentioned my Nova DVR XP is because N7bsn said that his trashed the AM broadcasts... and mine does not.

 

[Nick_Hoffman]

Often this problem is caused by improperly grounded electrical wiring in the building and can be rectified mostly by correcting the ground issue.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Michael,

The reason I mentioned my Nova DVR XP is because N7bsn said that his trashed the AM broadcasts... and mine does not.

Splendid. As I said, an induction-run motor will not interfere with AM or FM, while a DC or universal with sparking commutator would certainly trash the former. Look under your wife's 46-460 and you will see brushes. Nature of the beast, so there is no help Any interference from a DVR would not be from the motor, but the controller, which can be shielded and shunted so as to eliminate it.

 

[n7bsn]

Often this problem is caused by improperly grounded electrical wiring in the building and can be rectified mostly by correcting the ground issue.

Only if it's Common Mode, if it is broadcast RF no simple grounding fix is going to do a thing.

 

[Dave Roller]

My shop is @40 feet from my household wi-fi. I bought a Pandora radio and solved the static problem.

 

[dickhob]

Me too!

Not that I can contribute much, but my DVR-XP makes any AM reception within 300+ yards impossible. It sounds like a very rapid fog horn. It definitely is the lathe because I can turn on power to the lathe- it does not have actually have to be running, just plugged in to a live circut and its on the radio. If i switch off the surge protector strip, the beeping stops.

I can pick it in my car up two blocks away.

Does anyone know if there are any detremental problems either to the lathe or to people?

Thanks
Dick

 

[ray hampton]

Not that I can contribute much, but my DVR-XP makes any AM reception within 300+ yards impossible. It sounds like a very rapid fog horn. It definitely is the lathe because I can turn on power to the lathe- it does not have actually have to be running, just plugged in to a live circut and its on the radio. If i switch off the surge protector strip, the beeping stops.

I can pick it in my car up two blocks away.

Does anyone know if there are any detrimental problems either to the lathe or to people?

Thanks
Dick

detrimental problems YES there is a problem , it is like Lay's potato chips, nobody can have just one