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What AAW can do to protect safety of members

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Hi,

this is an awfull accident ... another awfull accident! I hope you will recover well.
I want to give a reply to James E Gaydon... and then give some advices:
When I hear what he has done (the man who had the accident with the Lancelot), I find his handling was 'stupid' (as you are saying) as well. BUT: this is what I can say NOW, I mean after so many years of woodturning and using machines for wood. I would not be able to say that 4 years ago.
The fact is that if you have not a lot of experience and if you are not particular 'handy' or 'technical minded' .... you simply do not know and simply do not feel in advance what the impact of certain ways of handling can be.
You simply do not feel or know how hard the machines can hit you and neither can you feel or imagine the implications of their strikes. Even when you are carefull, the lack of experience and the fact that you are working alone makes that now and then you make 'faults'. What is a 'fault' only can be concluded AFTER something happens. And if you are not lucky ... then it is sometimes too late.
In my first years:
. I was carefull with the bandsaw but I had no idea that the small piece of wood and the blade would twist that much when it left the wood ... and it damaged my finger ... luckily I was not pushing hard and I was concentrated because I tried to be carefull, so it finished with a couple of stitches
. I also read that you could have a kickback with the chainsaw and that you never may use the nose of the chainsaw and that you must use the metal pins/teeth at the front of the machine to fix the chainsaw ... but the first time I used it, althought I thought I was carefull, I had a kickback, since that time it never happened again ... but I was lucky that nothing happened. Now I know that in this case I did a 'stupid' thing.
. The tablesaw can be dangerous as well and kickbacks are very dangerous, that is what I read , so I was and still am scared as death to use it and I am very very carefull. But one day a very small piece (1 cm2) did not go completely to the end and kicked back: result the nail of my thumb and 3 cm of the flesh beneath had to be stitched. I never could imagine that such a small piece of wood could do so much damage. later, I have read that the speed can be 110 km / hour , and I also read that the best thing is to place yourself completely aside of the tablesaw and that is what I do now ... but it takes time to learn all those things and in the meanwhile a lot of things can happen and ... fellow woodturners with a lot of experience seem to have forgotten the day that they were not experienced at all when they say that it was 'their own fault'.
. One day I was working with oak from the south of France - the rainy side of France where the soil is pure clay. Now I never work with that wood again because now I now that it never stops moving: it grows too fast, too much sun and too much water at once but at that time I did nt know that it was possible that preturned wood was able not to stabilize even after 2 years of preturning. I was a bit in a haste but not too much, I should have controlled if the grip was firm once more (but in case the wood was stable this accident would not have occurred and I did not know that it was THAT unstable) ... my speed must have been lower (but as a young woodturner I was told to have the speed as high as possible because at that time woodturners were proud to say that they turned their pieces at 2500 rpm - anyway I was only turning at 1400 rpm, much too fast anyway (this is what I know now) ... and the piece came off of the lathe. I wore a faceshield so this saved my eye ... I could print similar photographs on the forum but the worst thing what happened is that I felt on the floor and hit the BACK of my head .. which makes that I am permanent handicapped now. I'm still doing woodturning with my handicap although I only can work halftime. There was a photograph in the magazine of a woodturner, a beautifull young lady who died ... it hurted my heart. A while ago there was another announcement of an experienced old Canadese woodturner who died ... and I myself know 2 woodturners , old and experienced as well who died of woodturning.
And how much more ???

Woodturning IS dangerous, it is lovely and my biggest passion but it IS DANGEROUS and we woodturners must be so honest to SAY THAT and why? To help protect the people who are less experienced, less skilled , less talented. It is not good enough to say : it is not dangerous if you are carefull because .... you only can be carefull with the things and acts that you know.

Conclusion:
- it MUST be said that woodturning costs on regular base the life of one or the other (experienced and not - experienced). If the consequence is that some people will not start woodturning well, probably they make the right choice for themself!
- factories put much too dangerous products on the market for not-professionals and professionals and there are almost no usefull safety guidelines in it or ways you may use it or not , not more than the general stuff you find with every new tool you buy.
example: in the woodworkersshop I bought an arbortech. It is a plain metal circle with a couple of very small cutting 'wheels' at the border. I asked information in the shop ... there seemed to be no problems. I used it several times to take away a lot of wood: I kept my dewalt in both my hands and moved it vertical in the wood, horizontal and diagonal ... . One year later I visited a fair for wood and there was a German factory who sold blades with teeth, not the chainsaw teeth but a bit similar. That man told me that it was forbidden to move the arbortech type of blade I had in horizontal direction because accidents occur. He also said that this type of blades were forbidden in Germany because they were unsafe! Since that time, I do not use that type of blade anymore ... but what if something had happened before the time I met that man. Was I uncarefull? No. I simply did not know.
And I blame the factories not to give more guidelines how to use it and I blame the woodworkersshop who want to sell and nothing than sell ... even if this can cause the death ...

- and I think also the woodworkerssociety must be still more explicit. Woodworking is not about JOY. It is about avoiding DANGERS and after that there is some place for joy. I remember there was on this forum a discussion about protection and wearing a faceshield. OK, I agree, a faceshield is a necessity for several reasons. But what do you think will happen if a rather serious piece of wood comes off the lathe? Do you think the effect will be the same as if a fly hits the shield? Do you think it will have no impact on your neck, on your stability, do you think you will be able to stay straight on your both feet as if nothing had happened? You will not, I assure you and if you do then it means that the strike was not hard and is not a real danger.
Most of the time you will have to find a new balance if the strike is really hard and then it may happen that the back of your head is hit, by a cupboard, by a table, by the floor and ... it is wellknown that the back of the head does not have to be hit very hard to cause braindamage. My faceshield was broken, my face was a ruin, red, blue, purple colours ... all over. Both my eyes were closed and thick for a couple of days, the heavy wood was broken in two pieces ... but it is the clash on the floor on the back of my head which causes the permanent handicap. Although, on the back of my head there was apparently no damage: no blood, no gap, just a little bit of pain ... so, once again: WEAR A HELMET.
When I ask the shop to sell helmets they don't do it. Of course, they do not want to present the woodturning as something dangerous, that means a loss of clients (and lives is not their business).
When I put it on the forum .... silence. I'm sure the fellows are thinking: this is not for me - it is not a necessity to go so far, woodturning is a gentle recreation ... and it is ... but not always ... one unlucky time is enough ... I'm handicapped and a guy I know (experienced) died because of that, so it is worth saying it, even if you choose not to do it yourself, it is worth to give the information to others to give them the CHOICE to applicate or not.

. Task for the woodworkerssociety.
I think it is a good idea to gather all kind of stories which occurred with woodworking machines and to make a kind of booklet of it. The stories has to be followed by safety guidelines. To read stories of what happened and how you can avoid this or that is much more effective for the non-experienced user than the much too much abstract warnings. I think there must be a book on this subject because not everybody is following the forum day after day and ... if you enter the forum in 2011 then you do not know about the discussions which were on the forum on 2010! I think that a woodturnerssociety who loves his members has to protect them as effective as they can and that is a way to be effective.


It is not likely that I will soon have another accident. I'm very carefull and much more experienced now. Each time I handle a new machine I'm thinking very carefull about it and I'm thinking all the time about WHAT CAN GO WRONG! When I know what can go wrong I start to work with it - as you see recognizing the danger comes before the pleasure. I can do it now ... because I survived and now I became a more or less experienced woodturner ... but what if one of the accidents who occurred would have caused my death or cut of my hand or several fingers? I am not too technical - but that is not a fault - I have no 'golden' hands but I'm not at all CLUMSY, not at all, I was just working on projects which were too ambitious for somebody with so little experience. Is that a fault - even if you do not realise it? No it is a lack of information and education.
For me this is a very important tag: First think about al the dangers and then think about joy.

Squirrel
 

odie

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Well, now that we're "fessing up", here's my story:

I haven't had a major catch for years, but I did have one just a couple of months ago. I am an experienced turner, and have the occasional minor catch of little consequence.....but, this one was a whopper! :eek:

Probably most new turners have major catches from improper tool handling.....until we "get it", and learn what works, and what doesn't! As experience is gained, we regularly go very close, but not quite far enough to have a catch, because often this zone is where the best cut is to be had.......but, this wasn't what happened to me a short time ago.......

In my case, it was simply a lax moment in awareness. I had a gouge in one hand, off the tool rest while I was reaching for something with the other hand.......and.......crash! I allowed the gouge tip to catch on the spinning wood and it violently slammed the gouge into the tool rest, knocking the tool out of my hand and flipping into the air. I was lucky that I wasn't in the line of fire and didn't sustain injury. It didn't ruin the bowl I was working on, but I did have to remove 1/4" or 3/8", or so of bowl wall thickness to get rid of the torn fibers!.......and, it put a horrible embarrassing dent in my tool rest that will serve as a reminder of my carelessness.........:eek:

When we get locked into a routine that comes with some experience, it's easy to lose focus of the dangers.....and, this is exactly what happened. Awareness.......it's a constant effort to never lose that, and in one moment of lax focus......I paid the price.......but was lucky the price I paid was not in the form of physical injury .

ooc
 
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Video vs booklet

The idea of a book on woodturner accidents is not likely to work. To much reading and in a short span of time the book would be set down mostly unread. Videos might be a better way. There are hundreds if not thousands of videos on YouTube which depict woodturning activities. More videos are posted all the time. A forum which identifies a video and then the ensuing thread talks about safety issues depicted in the video might be a more effective education process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8J4xcOd6QU

is a video by Devon Palmer, not to pick on Devon, but any video has something to learn about safety. He is turning a bowl. Are there things depicted in this video which could be learned about working safely? Please note that I never said or implied that Devon is working in an unsafe way. We can learn as much from pointing out what is a safe action as we can from an unsafe action.
 
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I also doubt a book on wood turning accidents won't fly. I'd also like to point out that while riding a motorcycle is dangerous, many do so. The insurance industry statistics on causes of death show that just walking a city street is more dangerous than riding a motorcycle however. Both are vastly more dangerous than flying, but we all do one or the other, or both. Any action we do has the potential for harm if we're careless (or stupid). Having a book on accidents would be much the same as the accident slide shows some schools had for kids about the dangers of driving.

Turning, like motorcycle riding, boating, or walking down the block, has dangerous potentials. Misusing tools is a good way to raise those potential risks to unacceptable levels (unless you're really trying to get hurt!). I'm 67 and am pretty much resigned to giving this up in a few years - or at least giving up turning larger stuff - when my arthritis gets to the point that I can't safely do things. IMHO everyone should periodically consider the potential risks involved and figure out if they really want to continue - not just turning, but just about any pastime they're involved in.
 
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I had a gouge in one hand, off the tool rest while I was reaching for something with the other hand.......and.......crash! I allowed the gouge tip to catch on the spinning wood and it violently slammed the gouge into the tool rest, knocking the tool out of my hand and flipping into the air.

That's the one! Problem is, the tool is off the rest when it happens, which means a smashed finger is a real possibility. One of the MANY reasons for keeping the rest up as tight to the work as possible is to make it impossible for the tool to get between wood and iron, jamming or "flipping."

Now who's run a tool off the end of the rest recently trying to save the ten seconds it might take to move it?
 
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Demonstrators????????

How many times do they "big boys" say in demos, "Don't do this. It is unsafe." But I am showing you, how I do it. No face mask, because the sound is better. GET A BETTER MICROPHONE. I can move the rest while the work is spinning, because it is faster. DON'T LET THEM TEACH YOU UNSAFE PRACTICES.

Make it plain, right up front: NO UNSAFE STUFF. If the best among us cheat, the rank and file will never learn! :(
 

Bill Boehme

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Squirrel,

You have very eloquently laid out the case for woodturners to be more cognizant of safety around machinery as well as the obligation to share safety information with each other and especially beginners. Thank you for such a thoughtful post.

Your comment about concussion injury also caught my attention because I fell backwards a few days ago and hit the back of my head on a hard tile wall in our bathroom. I was stunned for a moment, but thought that I was OK. The next couple days I could hardly keep my balance and I am still having headaches ... and this is from a seemingly rather minor bump.

The idea of a book on woodturner accidents is not likely to work .....

I also doubt a book on wood turning accidents won't fly ......

I think that the idea is that a book would be about safety as its central theme and not merely some disjointed collection of horror stories. Whether a book is able to grab the reader's attention sufficiently to compel him/her to continue reading is, of course, almost entirely up to the author's writing ability. Of course, there is also the problem that some people's attention span won't allow them to even read through a one-page instruction sheet.
 
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So I took up woodturning ...

Four years ago I fell in a shower, two very long operations later I have twelve fused vertebrae in my neck and back. But that's not what I am writing about. I used to make cabinets and furniture, BECAUSE of my injury I could no longer make large, heavy, items ... So very recently I took up woodturning, I love it, it's addicting. The irony is; I convinced my wife that I should invest this money into something that was SAFER for me to do. SHHHH!!! Don't tell my wife.
 
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Safety must be an attitude. Even with this attitude "ingrained" experience both helps and potentially hurts us. It seems with any endeavor bad things happen to the very new and the very seasoned. I must agree that a book might not be the best idea. However, another suggestion might be a forum chapter on AAW dedicated to reporting of incidents/accidents. The fire service has such a site called Safenet. It could be used for folks to report unsafe experiences with tools, talk about their past injury experiences etc. I recently suffered hopefully my first and only injury with kickback from my table saw. While the injury was luckily not too severe the anger and embarrasement for me was far worse. I also admit to being a little gun shy about wanting to resaw anything on the table saw again. It would seem that a forum chapter here might be the best thing to store the experiences of the collective.
 

hockenbery

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Bill Turpin said:
How many times do they "big boys" say in demos, "Don't do this. It is unsafe." But I am showing you, how I do it. No face mask, because the sound is better. GET A BETTER MICROPHONE. :(

I agree leading by example is important. Dale and Bill make good points.

Al STIRT does every demo with a face shield. I'm one that uses a face shield when I have a microphone and generally don't wear one when I don't have a microphone. The majority of clubs and some regional symposiums do not have microphones. In these cases, I demo without a face shield.

Most of the big boys and girls I have met are quite safety conscious. If the get hurt they don't work and don't get paid.

Local clubs can set their rules.
This is a hot topic for AAW. Should minimal standards for demonstrators be mandated at AAW events?
face shields? Dust masks. Shields for the audience?

Work safe
Al
 
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Every time someone does something STUPID everyone goes crazy with I wouldn't use those______ there to dangerous. When are we as a very large organization going to stop knocking the tools and look at the people. This last one is a perfect example. I can't believe anyone that picks up an angle grinder can not till that you need two hands on one. All tools are dangerous and if the user wont read the instructions or even just THINK about what the tool does then your going to have these accidents.
Even if he was using the tool with a grinding wheel he still probably would have been hurt cause he was using it one handed.The Lancelot carving tools have been around a long time and used correctly have made allot of carvings with no problems or at lest not a whole lot. When the tools are used correctly very seldom is there a problem.
And if you wont a scare tool that used with BOTH hands will still take your arm or leg OFF look at you chain saw,Then think about using it ONE HANDED.
 

Bill Boehme

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Every time someone does something STUPID everyone goes crazy with I wouldn't use those______ there to dangerous. When are we as a very large organization going to stop knocking the tools and look at the people. This last one is a perfect example. I can't believe anyone that picks up an angle grinder can not till that you need two hands on one. All tools are dangerous and if the user wont read the instructions or even just THINK about what the tool does then your going to have these accidents.
Even if he was using the tool with a grinding wheel he still probably would have been hurt cause he was using it one handed.The Lancelot carving tools have been around a long time and used correctly have made allot of carvings with no problems or at lest not a whole lot. When the tools are used correctly very seldom is there a problem.
And if you wont a scare tool that used with BOTH hands will still take your arm or leg OFF look at you chain saw,Then think about using it ONE HANDED.

QFT

Harry,

I re-read all of the replies in this thread and did not see any that mentions anything about their view towards using the Lancelot. It seems to me that the gist of this thread is primarily how we can insure that tools are being used in a safe manner and ways that this information can be shared with beginners and less experienced woodturners. The OP offered some ideas for consideration and a couple other ideas have been mentioned in the replies. There is no need to make personal characterizations in a civil discourse.
 

odie

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That's the one! Problem is, the tool is off the rest when it happens, which means a smashed finger is a real possibility. One of the MANY reasons for keeping the rest up as tight to the work as possible is to make it impossible for the tool to get between wood and iron, jamming or "flipping."

Hello MM.......

As is per my usual with outside turning, the tool rest was about 1/4" from the bowl. The tool was being held one-handed, off the rest, by the butt end, and the catch was about 1/4" deep, or slightly more. This means the gouge shank probably extended 1/2", or more over the tool rest. Even though the tool rest itself was properly positioned, the nature of this catch means the tool shank extended beyond the point where I'd normally adjust the rest.


ooc
 

john lucas

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Bill I use the Lancelot a lot. Right now it's my only rough wood removeal tool other than the chainsaw. I do have some smaller burrs that I use on flex shaft machines but when I want to get rid of wood I use the Lancelot. I would like to switch to the larger burr cutters or try the Arbortec but they are about $50 or more and since I'm able to use the Lancelot it's hard to spring for the money.
Here's how I use it. First of all I use 2 hands, always. It's just easier to control. I do the same with hand carving tools. One hand pushes the other helps guide the tool. I only use one hand on the Dremel or Flex shaft tools. With any of these tools clamp the wood down. If your holding the wood in one hand and using the other to cut your just asking for danger. I only do that with small tools and very controlled cuts. I never never never use the angle grinder with the Lancelot or the small Arbortec without having the wood clamped in some sort of holding device. My choice is a faceplate or chuck held in the Bestwoodtools carving stand.
A scraping type cut, which is running the blade left to right it relatively safe and very controllable. Take light cuts. I can hog off wood or take the finest of cuts this way.
Plunge cuts, where you go straight in will make it run on you. Imagine having the car on a jack stand with the wheels spinning and then drop it on the ground. It isn't going to sit still. This is what the Lancelot will do. With light cuts it's very controllable. Think about pushing a carving gouge into the wood and trying to take a 1/8" deep cut. It's very hard and all goes well until it slips. All that force behind the cut then goes forward and is quite dangerous. However it's very controllable when you take off hair thin shavings. The Lancelot is the same.
To help control all these cuts I rotate the guard ( you should have the blade guard on at all times). I rotate the guard around so that it acts like a bevel. The guard sits on the wood and you rotate the tool into the cut. Then just like a bowl gouge it won't go any deeper until you lift the handle to make it go deeper. Lower the handle and it comes out of the cut. This works extremely well and I suspect would do just as good at limiting the cut on the Arbortec or Kutzall burrs.
If you want to learn to use this or any other tools I suggest practicing. Go out into your log pile and take a piece of wood and just carve out a bowl shape. It doesn't have to be pretty, just waste away wood and get a feel for how it cuts and which direction it wants to pull into the wood. Once you've spent and hour or so doing this you'll have a much better feel for how to control it safely.
 

hockenbery

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The AAW safety guidelines focus on lathe operations.

http://www.woodturner.org/resources/safety.htm

26. A significant number of accidents to woodturners occur while using saws, especially band and chain saws. Learn and follow the safety guidelines for these machines before operation.

The Lancelot is more a saw than a carver. i would call it a chainsaw.

I was delighted by Kieth Tompkins bandsaw safety article in the last journal. Of the people I know requiring hospital visits, most have been the bandsaw. Most common is a trying to push a defective piece of wood through the saw. The wood give way and a hand goes into the blade.

Two things to keep in mind

our most important safety equipment is an alert mind
In the end the most dangerous tool is the one you are using.

Work safely
Al
 
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When the Lancelot first came on the market I thought I just had to have one, man could I hog off some wood with that thing, and it was cheaper than a chain saw. This was during my attempts to be a wood sculptor. I never did buy one, and the more I thought about it, the more it scared me. It's just like a chain saw, or a table saw, they scare me, but I still use them. I have a healthy respect for these tools and what can and will happen, If I am not very careful.

I do not have an instruction manual for the Lancelot, I will try to get a copy and read it. There is no dought in my mind that it will mention at least some of the possible dangers of using this tool.

A lot of you seem to be upset because I used the word stupid.
Well, I'm not always politcally correct, or professional in what I say, or how I say it. But I believe I am able to get my point across well enough.
Stupid is, as stupid does. Forrest Gump.

As far as the AAW doing more to protect it's members, shy of putting out a manual on safety that most wouldn't read, I believe they stress the aspects of safety very well, and on a continual bassis.
I believe it is up to the individual to practice safety, no amount of written literature will do this. It will only be suggestive at the most.
The individual must practice safety.

When I say that people do stupid things, here is one example:
At the company where I worked as a production turner, I had a bench behind me where I kept my turning tools. It was my habit to sharpen my tools each morning before I started to work. This guy, a cabinet maker with 30 plus years of experience in the woodworking field, pick up my freshly sharpened 1" skew and started to ask me how sharp my tools were. I heard him say "OUCH"
He had proceeded to run his thumb across the cutting edge of the skew.
About 5 hours and 4 stitches later, this guy came back to work and proceeded to chastise me for having sharp tools out in the open where someone could get hurt. This was in a cabinet shop. Sharp tools everywhere.

I looked him in the eye and said "Stupid is, as Stupid does.
This is all I'll say on this matter, Jim
Oh buy the way, I have done some Stupid things in my life.


Dennis, Gods speed on your healing.
 
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you can not protect anyone from their self,(no matter how much safety stuff)
Have you ever watched any of these dyi shows on tv, it is a wounder that no one gets hurt or killed, the way they take a person that don't even know what the tool is are what it used for and then show to make one cut or what ever the tool does and then turn them loose on it, I know I do not know what goes on behind the seens, but why tape all of the un-safe things.(Stupid)
You take any tool set in the corner or on a shelf it is safe untill some person starts to use it and that is when it becomes un-safe.
I cut the end of my finger. it was not the saws fault it had all the safety stuff on it, the saw was doing what it was designed to do is cut stuff, and I am the one that had my finger in the wrong place, I can not blame the saw, the manufactor,the lighing, the clamp the power cord,the board manufactor ( tree) are anything else that was around at that time just me.
tools are so much safer now than what they use to be so now it is up to the human factor
if you do not know how to use the tool you can not control it, yes things can still happen, but it most offten the user's fault.
 
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Have you ever watched any of these dyi shows on tv, it is a wounder that no one gets hurt or killed, the way they take a person that don't even know what the tool is are what it used for and then show to make one cut or what ever the tool does and then turn them loose on it, I know I do not know what goes on behind the seens, but why tape all of the un-safe things.(Stupid)

"A wounder?" I like that. Though there are a lot of jobs done safely by some which frighten others. Lack of understanding, mostly, and if they are going to be "regulators," this is a bad thing. They, most of all need to understand the principles behind the operation, not just call it dangerous. Taking your finger across an edge to test its keenness is a lot safer than sliding it along the edge, right? Of course, that's also why a carver slides the gouge edge a bit sideways rather than simply pushing it to remove wood rapidly. Same goes for people whittling a stick. Or a turner who allows the rotation of the work to do the same rather than hacking, tearing and catching. The basics. Hate to think of how many people, including the guy who wrote the article declaring the tool commonly referred to as a "roughing gouge" should be confined to use on spindles don't understand this basic truth which pertains to all edges. It took seeing his video on Youtube to understand how he came to that conclusion. Seems he doesn't apply the tool to the work properly!

It's not just those that "break" the rules, you have to control them that writes the rules too. Don't confuse aura for expertise.
 

Bill Boehme

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James,

I'll agree with you that "stupid is as stupid does" and, in the right context, it is fine to talk about stupid unsafe things that we have done or that we have observed unnamed people doing. From what I have read on the forums, I gather that Dennis is fully aware aware of the mistake that he made and rubbing his face in it doesn't seem to be very helpful at this point.

While we sometimes do stupid things knowing full well that we are doing something unsafe, there are also situations as Squirrel (I wish that I knew his real name) pointed out where there is simply a lack of experience and proper training.

My worst injury was a result of of using a hand carving tool in a manner that I knew was wrong, but did it anyway. My stupidity was rewarded by a trip to the ER to sew up a long deep gash. On the bright side, the doctor said that it was the smoothest job of fileting a hand that he has ever seen. Carving tools are very sharp and can cut meat much easier than they cut wood.
 
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We can talk about safety all we want, but accidents happen "in the moment". I think the best way to keep safety visible is for the local chapters to talk about it, not by lecture but by example. The chapter meetings I attend include, as one of the first agenda items, members talking about accidents and near-accidents they had in the previous month. There is little more attention-getting than hearing about a band-saw mishap from someone with a bandaged hand, or a bowl blow-up from someone with a black eye and fat lip. (He was wearing a face shield. He might have been dead without it.)
 
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I appreciate the detailed facts that were presented and discussion and opinions based on those facts. What is frustrating (and useless) is when an incident gets reported but there are no details. "So-and-so was injured while working at the <blank>." How does anyone learn from that? The flying magazines I read routinely print raw NTSB reports. These detail the accident scene, the condition and maintenance history of the craft and the experience and training of the pilot. Only after a thorough examination of the evidence do they make a determination. Sometimes they make definitive conclusions, but when it's not possible, they draw probable conclusions (and say so). The point of the reports is to (hopefully) prevent similar mishaps.

I also have a Lancelot tool. It's not "like" a chainsaw. It IS a chainsaw. Reading this thread will make me think about safety next time I use it and that is a good thing.
 
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Safety and turning

I did some turning without a face shield but did finally buy one. Hopefully, it will never be used for its intended purpose but piece of mind is a good thing.

James, I can't believe any experienced person would run their finger on the edge of any edged tool!
 
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John

Hey John,
If you knew this guy you would understand. About two weeks after the skew incident, he was walking past a table saw and ran his hand into the blade as he wiped away some saw dust on the table. Lucky for him, the saw was turned off. He cut four of his fingers on the blade, no stitches required. He did this one more than once.

Jim
 
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I agree with John Lawson ...

John Lawson describes exactly what I want to say... I will explain it to you:
- when I had my finger stitched because of a kick-back of the tablesaw,
a question came in on my computer from a woodworkersforum.They wanted to have more information about tablesaw accidents. And there was a huge amount of replies to read. All were written very detailed and very personal: how it happened, what happened and why it happened and what the result was. This 'reality' learned me much much more about tablesaws than all rational theory I ever heard about it. Theory is too abstract for me and with the real 'example' ... I get the point immediately ... and the necessary 'fear' as well.
- and now and then I'm visiting the carpenter who made the windows for my house. When I'm telling him what I'm doing now and then he says me: 'You are crazy, I would not dare to do that' ... and then I can feel, all at once what he means, sometimes without any explanation but not always. I give an example ... don't laugh with me because, as I said I'm not a wonder in technique although I'm not clumsy ... an example; I have a tablesaw, a steady one, very good one, reliable , secondhand yes and very heavy. It is possible to put a saw on it size 50 cm. Ok - I bought a saw of 50 cm , I sew the wood, very frightened and very slow because it was a heavy job to do ... no accidents but this did not please me, I had to push too much, it burned and I knew this was dangerous. A year later a representative of the factory passed by and he told me that for such blades I needed to have a special blade with far less teeth (although the blade I ordered was for massive wood and that was what they gave me) and a lot of space between the teeth - he explained me why and I understood it immediately (and once I understand something I do not forget it anymore), so I ordered another blade.
I used it, it was better but still I did not trust the wood going through the blade. I had the impression that the tablesaw was not made for sewing such a thick wood. But, I was doubting about it because I knew 1. I was freightened more than another person and 2. the fact that they make such blades is because there was a need for them, no, so I thought it was my lack of experience and I went on to use it, as carefull as possible.
Then I told this to my carpenter and he was very surprized about my story and told me that he did not dare to do the same (he is not a scary man) and the WAY he was saying it, I knew immediately that what I have felt was right and my thoughts were wrong ... and I stopped to use the 50 cm blade ... now I only use the chainsaw or the bandsaw for thick wood which seems me NOW perfectly logic. If anyone else would tell me NOW that he uses a tablesaw to cut thick wood , I would tell him rational and emotioanlly: 'that is very stupid' and I will FEEL that it is stupid but in the beginning, no, no, I felt it was stupid but I thought that my feelings were wrong and that I was scared because I had no experience enough.
Stories are an absolute must and yes, it is maybe not a bad idea to have a part of the website permanently dedicated for guys who want to tell what accident happened to them, very lifely and real, not (only) the theory.

Best regards - Squirrel
 
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