Brown Paper Bag Source?

[Gregg Adams]

Hi all,
I'm looking for an online source for 50-80 lb. brown paper bags. None of the local shops around here use paper anymore. I've found some sources online, but they sell in 500 bulk. I just want around 30 or so being that I can reuse them.

Thanks!

 

[Clifton C]

lawn bags

Gregg,
Ace hardware sells these, 6065411 which is a 30 gallon lawn and refuse bag.
If you google "lawn and refuse bags" you might find something you can use.
30 gallon from homedepot is what I have been using, but I cannot find them
on their site, guess I'll have to find a new source. Graingers also has them
item # 4JMZ4 you need an account or know someone who does.
Not 50 to 80 gallons, but still a good size bag...

c

 

[ray hampton]

how big is a 50-80 pound bag ? bigger than the ones at your super market ?

 

[Stuart Johnson]

If you are looking for them to use in drying roughed out turnings one option is what I use. I bought a roll of brown paper at HD and just wrap them up. I then cut out the center to allow air movement.

 

[TJ Hamilton]

Sam's sells bundles of brown paper grocery sacks in the food service department.

Kroger and Publix, here in GA, also offer a paper option at checkout. When I run low all purchases go in paper for a couple of weeks and the inventory problem is fixed.

Hope this helps, Tom

 

[Gynia]

how big is a 50-80 pound bag ? bigger than the ones at your super market ?

Many trash cans are 30 gallon and you should be familiar with the size of a 55 gallon barrel.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Bag paper weight

Hi all,
I'm looking for an online source for 50-80 lb. brown paper bags.

Hi Greg, Do you mean grocery bags that are made from 50 to 80 pound paper? I assume that's what you mean, similar to refering to printing paper by weight, such as 24LB stock.

 

[Art Betke]

If you're using them for drying rough turned pieces, an alternative that's worked well for me is to use several layers of newspaper.

 

[Gregg Adams]

Ray: They would be the same as the super market size. Most of the bags that I've been using have an 8lb marked on the bottom of the bag. An 8 inch bowl fits but not much more and I'm wanting to do some bigger bowls. The 8lb bags I use are white and seem to let the bowls dry too fast because I'm getting some a lot of warpage and I'm leaving the wall thickness of the bowls more than 10%. The paper of the 8lb bags are much thinner than the big super market bags. I would have doubled up if I'd known that they would warp that bad. I'm hoping there is enough material to turn down the bowl and still have a 1/4" wall give or take.

Thanks everyone for the great responses/sources. This gives me some new directions I can go!

Take care

 

[Paul M. Kaplowitz]

Bags for drying

For many years I put green bowls in paper bags with wet shavings. I have found however that I have much less warping and cracks by coating the bowls inside and out with Anchor Seal and just putting them on a shelf to dry. I weigh them evry month and when the weight doesn't change for two months they are dry. The most important thing is to make sure the walls are a consistant thickness. I don't use the 10% rule. Bowls of 20" in dia. I leave about 1 1/4" thick. If I left them 2" they would take over a year to dry.

 

[Gary Chapman]

Do you have an Aldi's super market around? I buy them there all the time for like 10 cents apiece. I anchorseal my roughs and put them in a bag,tape the end and put them on the shelf until they stop losing weight. Gary

 

[Gregg Adams]

Paul and Gary: I don't have an Aldi's, unfortunately. I didn't even consider the Anchorseal. I thought it would stop the drying. I just might get some of that on order and give also.

Thanks guys!

 

[john lucas]

I agree with the others on Anchorseal. I get my paper bags in the Sunday paper. I used them a lot for awhile but now I just Anchorseal the end grain areas and sometimes the lip and tenon. Now I only use the paper bags when I have a piece I really don't want to lose. Not that I don't want to lose any of them but every now and then you get a piece of wood that is really special. Those I put in the bag for the first week or so.

 

[Jorge Castaneda]

No Bags

After using paper bags for several years, I did have the chance to discuss drying strategies with Dave Lancaster, the founder of our club, he talked me into using nothing, no wax, no shavings, no paper, just stack them with sticks between in an area with low air movement.
They did dry quite a bit faster and yes a few develop cracks, but the great majority did not and are ready to final turning in a month or two. With a lot less work and bother.
When I have very green wood, once the bowl is roughed, I leave it a few minutes at the lathe's top speed, centrifuge works wonders!
My $0.02

 

[Rick M]

Gregg,
Ace hardware sells these, 6065411 which is a 30 gallon lawn and refuse bag.
If you google "lawn and refuse bags" you might find something you can use.
30 gallon from homedepot is what I have been using, but I cannot find them
on their site, guess I'll have to find a new source. Graingers also has them
item # 4JMZ4 you need an account or know someone who does.
Not 50 to 80 gallons, but still a good size bag...

c

YMMV based on my own experience to date, but Grainger Industrial Supply is one of several businesses that offer discounts to AAW members (login required to access list).

With a couple of locations within a few minutes drive time, I haven't needed the free shipping and other discounts mentioned are not necessarily obvious. IIRC, the account setup process states it takes a few days after setting up your online account there to view discounted prices, but the few items I've checked appear the same whether I'm logged in or not. Nonetheless, I'm all set if I need something--especially if there's a good discount.

I thought they were a bit pricey, but I've seen bundles of standard brown paper grocery bags at Sam's Club, and have heard others recommend large cylindrical storage drums made of laminated cardboard, or large dog food bags when emptied (though I wonder if these might seal too well if not monitored closely). Many cities have (corrugated) box and other specialty paper companies, which might also be an option.

 

[Owen Lowe]

The 8lb bags I use are white and seem to let the bowls dry too fast because I'm getting some a lot of warpage and I'm leaving the wall thickness of the bowls more than 10%. The paper of the 8lb bags are much thinner than the big super market bags. I would have doubled up if I'd known that they would warp that bad. I'm hoping there is enough material to turn down the bowl and still have a 1/4" wall give or take.

Gregg,
As I understand it, the drying speed has little to do with the degree of warping you'll see. The warping is a function of the loss of a volume of water contained in the structure of the wood. The amount of warping is dependent on the species of tree. Some woods warp a LOT and others not so much -- and even within a single tree, warpage is dependent on where in the tree the wood originated.

The occurrence of cracking is a function of the speed at which the bound water is lost with respect to the cellular structure's ability to conform to the volumetric loss and consequent stresses.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Gregg,
As I understand it, the drying speed has little to do with the degree of warping you'll see.

Squarely hit on the head. It might affect the development of checks on the outside endgrain which can grow into cracks. Inside is being squeezed, so checks don't start.

I see Mississipi as your location, which means you don't have far to go to reach EMC, and should have pretty high RH without close enclosure. If you don't have flat-bottomed vertical-sided blanks, you should be good to put 'em on the shelf and let nature take its course. If you do have those types of blanks, you're going to lose a percentage regardless because of the mechanical stress factors placed on the ends as the bottom contracts. Leaving things thinner will reduce the total warp. Remember that the wood contracts only on itself. 7% of a 3" chord is more than the same on a 2" after all.

Almost forgot - Kraft paper in various weights is available at places that sell wrapping and packaging. Most grocery bags used to be rated by capacity in bushels, not by the strength of the paper. Recycled paper product makes them a bit weaker. Wrap around, tape together, don't worry about open middles.

 

[ray hampton]

Ray: They would be the same as the super market size. Most of the bags that I've been using have an 8lb marked on the bottom of the bag. An 8 inch bowl fits but not much more and I'm wanting to do some bigger bowls. The 8lb bags I use are white and seem to let the bowls dry too fast because I'm getting some a lot of warpage and I'm leaving the wall thickness of the bowls more than 10%. The paper of the 8lb bags are much thinner than the big super market bags. I would have doubled up if I'd known that they would warp that bad. I'm hoping there is enough material to turn down the bowl and still have a 1/4" wall give or take.

Thanks everyone for the great responses/sources. This gives me some new directions I can go!

Take care

I do not think that the white paper bags are as strong as the brown bags , had you consider the paper shopping bags [the bags comes with a handle ]

 

[Gregg Adams]

Ah, ok. So the warping will happen no matter the speed of the drying. It's the cracking and checking we are avoiding by slower drying. I'm not having any problems with cracking and checking, so maybe I'm on the right track then?

 

[MichaelMouse]

Ah, ok. So the warping will happen no matter the speed of the drying. It's the cracking and checking we are avoiding by slower drying. I'm not having any problems with cracking and checking, so maybe I'm on the right track then?

Right place, certainly. MS is pretty humid IIRC. Be careful how much you try to slow the evaporation process, though. It's easy to slip into mildew territory if you keep things too damp too long.

I'll pop the reference from the gov't on what warp to expect with various grain orientations. Extent depends on species and rate of growth.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/LogEnd.jpg

 

[Gregg Adams]

Right place, certainly. MS is pretty humid IIRC. Be careful how much you try to slow the evaporation process, though. It's easy to slip into mildew territory if you keep things too damp too long.

I'll pop the reference from the gov't on what warp to expect with various grain orientations. Extent depends on species and rate of growth.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/LogEnd.jpg

Thanks Michael! That reference is handy. I got lucky today and found some bags at a local non big box hardware and building supply store. I noticed in that picture that they even had a reference to the pith. Can wood containing the pith be used?

 

[MichaelMouse]

Thanks Michael! That reference is handy. I got lucky today and found some bags at a local non big box hardware and building supply store. I noticed in that picture that they even had a reference to the pith. Can wood containing the pith be used?

Yeth.

It's the juvenile wood around the pith that is weak, and splits easily.

 

[Gregg Adams]

Yeth.

It's the juvenile wood around the pith that is weak, and splits easily.

Well now that's the piths, I mean pits. Ok so I could turn a limb from a tree as a spindle piece, right?

 

[odie]

For many years I put green bowls in paper bags with wet shavings. I have found however that I have much less warping and cracks by coating the bowls inside and out with Anchor Seal and just putting them on a shelf to dry. I weigh them evry month and when the weight doesn't change for two months they are dry. The most important thing is to make sure the walls are a consistant thickness. I don't use the 10% rule. Bowls of 20" in dia. I leave about 1 1/4" thick. If I left them 2" they would take over a year to dry.

Good post ^^^^^

Gregg,
As I understand it, the drying speed has little to do with the degree of warping you'll see. The warping is a function of the loss of a volume of water contained in the structure of the wood. The amount of warping is dependent on the species of tree. Some woods warp a LOT and others not so much -- and even within a single tree, warpage is dependent on where in the tree the wood originated.

The occurrence of cracking is a function of the speed at which the bound water is lost with respect to the cellular structure's ability to conform to the volumetric loss and consequent stresses.

Truth here ^^^^^

--------------------------------------------------------------

I'm one who also gave up on paper bags.....and, use nothing but a total surface coat of anchorseal. I use three months of unchanged weight as my standard for determining moisture stabilization.

The point of drying is to eliminate the moisture content very slowly, so that the roughed bowl can absorb the stresses incurred without cracking. Generally, the slower, the better. The warping cannot be eliminated, and this is not a consequence of how fast the moisture loss occurs.....but, more so has to do with the physical properties of the roughed bowl, itself.

Paper bags work, but just don't do as good a job as the waxed emulsion, or anchorseal. Gregg: Note that anchorseal does breathe, and slows down the drying rate slower than that you are getting with paper bags.....but, this is what you want. As another poster mentioned, you could get away with not doing anything at all, and just stacking the bowls on stickers, take your losses......but, if you want the best success rate in drying your roughed bowls......anchorseal will provide that.

Once you have a "rotation" of roughed bowls, the drying rate isn't as big an issue......and for success, slower is better. I have about fifty roughed bowls on hand, and never have any moments of nothing to finish. For some "production turners", this number may be higher. For myself, I average about one bowl per week, year after year........

ooc

 

[Gregg Adams]

Thanks Odie. This is definitely a learning experience, and the experience of others is a big help. It's going to save me a lot of trial and error. I'll order some Anchorseal and give that a try.

Thanks again!

 

[MichaelMouse]

Gregg, you are in Mississippi. When wood stays above about 16-18per cent moisture for a long time, black mildew grows on it. Nasty stuff that can blacken the wood to a depth that will force a lot of turning to get it gone. If you're not having problems with cracking, as you indicated, save your money and effort and forgo the wax. 80 percent RH is about 16 percent, and according to the climatology people, you're at 14 or better most of the year in Jackson. http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr117.pdf Not sure I'd slow things down, especially at a price. If you want to know what wax will do, put a piece in a cardboard box for a week. Keep your nose away when you open it, because the air will probably be full of spores!

As to the "pith," if you include it in spindle turnings you're going to want to get close to it either longitudinally or cut directly across it, as when making vases or goblets. If you have too much wood around it, you can develop radial checks. If you reveal it on the surface, you can expect it to open the way those Borg 2x4s open when they split the heart.

 

[Gretch Flo]

warpage

Doesn't warpage also depend on the way the blank was cut??
For instance most trees don't have the pith in the center of the log. If you cut the log vertically thru the pith as you are supposed to do, you should note the annular rings. They may be more compressed on one side of the tree and future blank, which may lead to warpage. So you try to cut thru the pith where the rings are symmetrical on one half of the log . Some woods like sycamore have warped to the point (in double turning) that they were useless to re turn even using more than the 10-1 rule. I usually don't double turn anymore and can't remember the woods that gave me trouble. Gretch

 

[odie]

Doesn't warpage also depend on the way the blank was cut??
For instance most trees don't have the pith in the center of the log. If you cut the log vertically thru the pith as you are supposed to do, you should note the annular rings. They may be more compressed on one side of the tree and future blank, which may lead to warpage. So you try to cut thru the pith where the rings are symmetrical on one half of the log . Some woods like sycamore have warped to the point (in double turning) that they were useless to re turn even using more than the 10-1 rule. I usually don't double turn anymore and can't remember the woods that gave me trouble. Gretch

Very correct, Gretch.......

Besides that, there are a number of other physical factors that contribute to warping.....the way it's cut, for sure.....species.....initial moisture content, knots, grain pattern, bark inclusions, anything that disrupts the grain, and of course, as you mentioned: position of the pith in relation to the bowl, etc.......

-----------------------

By using the 10 percent rule, I've had a few bowls that necessarily got pretty thin after re-truing, (due to severe warping).....but I don't think I've ever lost any, subsequent to adopting the rule. Some have wobbled quite a bit before re-truing, but with a little very careful tool handling, was able to bring everything back to round.

ooc