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Dye help

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I am impressed with Barbara Dills's ? sycamore or cottonwood platter that highlighted the swirly grain. About time I expanded!!!
I have turned 2 small 7-8" bowls 3-4 days ago. They come from weathered maple and were "drying" in a field after another turner that does huge nested bowls thru them in a field. (actually waiting to be turned into firewood when I scavenged them from a friend) They are a "spalted maple" kind with mottling honey and white, with some lite black thruout and a couple of black spalted lines. One has some bark inclusions. They have some swirls in them. I think they should have a finish that makes them stand out. They are currently at 5 and 7% moisture so I think are ready.
I have used oil in the past, but think they can be highlighted more than that.
I have one coat of sanding sealer and sanded to 600. Now they are waiting for the dyes.
I ordered some 'Artisan dyes from Craft supply 2 days ago )red/blue/green/black/orange-alcohol based aniline dyes and should get shortly.
Any hints on what to do?? (dilution, after drying, then what???)I want hints of color, not a "painted" surface. Gretch
 
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Gretch,
I too have been thinking of trying to dye some bowls, used india ink to dye one the other day and liked it but it is solid black. I want to experiment with hints of color also so let us know how yours turn out and what method you use ot color them.
I know a lot of turners use an air brush but I don't have one and am not interested in more expensive tools if I can do it another way. I love the fading of one color into another and I know that is done with the air brush.
I want to order some dyes so let me know how you succeed. Thanks Gary
 
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Gretch,
Practice or playing is the key. Dyeing is like cooking not baking, baking you follow a receipt, because all the ingredients are measured out and you get the same results every time. Wood dyeing is a little different each and every time because of all the variables, wood, weather, dye, dye concentration, etc. I use cloth, brush and airbrush to dye, but I use the cloth or paper towel the most (Viva). I try to use a sliced up scrap of the wood I'm turning for 3 reason, color, color and to see how it's going to penetrate the wood. Sometimes I’ll seal the wood with shellac if I can’t control the penetration. I use the left over plastic tube from protein drinks to mix up my alcohol-based dyes and test until I get the color I want. Then when I get the color "right" I'll write down the concentration, not that I ever use it again but just because. As far as blending colors, alcohol dyes are fairly easy to blend, with a little practice, put some alcohol in a spray bottle and give it a mist. The practice is to get a blending of color and not a run. Hope that helps a little.
 

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.... I have used oil in the past, but think they can be highlighted more than that.
I have one coat of sanding sealer and sanded to 600. Now they are waiting for the dyes.
I ordered some 'Artisan dyes from Craft supply 2 days ago )red/blue/green/black/orange-alcohol based aniline dyes and should get shortly.
Any hints on what to do?? (dilution, after drying, then what???)I want hints of color, not a "painted" surface. Gretch

I woud very highly recommend the "Turnaround" DVD or "Turn It Up" set of DVD's by Jimmy Clewes as an excellent tuturial. I have also seen the demonstrations by Jimmy Clewes at SWAT a couple years ago which were very useful to learn about dyeing woodturnings.

If your wood has reached the point of spalting, it is likely that it is not a good candidate for dyeing. Also, if it has spalting, then adding dyeing might just lead to the dye embellishment making the piece too busy.

I have dyed a few pieces of maple and the process works best with rock hard maple that is highly figured. Dye helps add depth and accentuate the natural chatoyance of wood because the early and late wood accept the dye differently. Since you have already added a sealer and sanded to 600, about the only thing that the dye will do is to put a fairly uniform amount of stain across the surface which will not do much, if anything, to help bring out the chatoyance.

You will need some empty plastic squeeze bottles that have spouts similar to what you would find on a CA glue bottle. Fill the bottles about half full of denatured alcohol and then add a few drops of dye. Test its effect on a piece of wood and then add more dye and repeat the process until the dye is at the desired strength. If your dye is a powder, then use a very tiny tool like a small flat blade screwdriver to add small amounts of dye to the alcohol. Wear nitrile gloves unless you like colorful hands. You only need three colors -- red, yellow, and blue to create most any color that you might want. You also need to get a plastic spray bottle and fill it with denatured alcohol to help wet the wood and to blend colors together on the wood. You can also consider adding a very tiny amount of shellac to the dyes that you mix so that they will have more of a layering effect -- otherwise, the colors can become a bit muddy when they blend together on the surface of the wood. After dyeing, I apply several coats of lacquer and polish them level with Micromesh. Here is a link to one of the dyed platters that I made: Tranquility
 
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Cindy Drozda has a section on coloring wood in her DVD Star Finial or Finial Star. She is a member of our local Front Range Woodturners and a world class turner. I have seen her work and held her work plenty of times as well as seeing her working at local demos. the DVD is rather expensive, about $40, covers all aspects of making finials. You might get it through some library. Her coloring of burls is outstanding.

I get no commisions for this endorsement.
 
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dying tips

"I woud very highly recommend the "Turnaround" DVD or "Turn It Up" set of DVD's by Jimmy Clewes as an excellent tuturial. I have also seen the demonstrations by Jimmy Clewes at SWAT a couple years ago which were very useful to learn about dyeing woodturnings."

Bill I saw a Jimmie demo 3-4 years ago I Traverse City, Mi. Made notes and actually found them this am. But they are sparse on techinique on dying, as he showed you a diff type of dye. And of course, I didn't understand my handwriting either!!! Bought his set of 3 after. but it was "Turning it on, " not Turning it up"
" Since you have already added a sealer and sanded to 600, about the only thing that the dye will do is to put a fairly uniform amount of stain across the surface which will not do much, if anything, to help brin".
I thought I recently read where the piece should be sealed.. I guess I could "unsand" and take it to 350. I got lots of plastic bottoles-thanks for the tips!!!!!
These pieces are small and an experiment. Will see if it ruins them!!!!!! Gretch
 
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I'll echo Bill's recommendations about sealing the wood. I think you'll have better dying results on unsealed wood, although as Bill pointed out, the dye will absorb differently into the various parts of the wood depending on how hard they are. For that reason, sometimes partially punky wood can give pretty inconsistent results. (Soft spots will drink up a lot of dye, and hard spots will take on hardly any.)

Another general warning about spraying anything with DNA in it...wear a VOC-rated respirator when you do it. I nearly ended up in the ER the first time I used an airbrush to apply TransTint in DNA. I bought a VOC respirator the next day. ;)

Sounds like you have the right approach, though. Experiment, experiment, experiment. :)
 
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sealing before dying

Just remembered where I readi about sealing. Last week at 4 am when I couldn't sleep!!!-May 10 issue of woodturning"ariticle on gilt cream, and liming wax used on ash. He (Mark Baker-edit) used a base color to highlight the ebonizing. Said to seal it first. "by applying sanding sealer , it is easier to get a sharp delineation between the softer wax-filled grain and the harder wood". It was a diff process but I thought the base would be similar- I/ll experiment. Think the dyes (from Craft supply) are here in town and should be delivered today. I don't have air brush capability. Not intending to do this much . I have alot of maple and it's boring unless alot of spalting, or curl/flame, etc. Gretch
 

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You don't use an air brush with dyes -- just paper towels and old rags. Put some stain on the paper towel/rag and wipe it on the wood as necessary -- just go slow and do not apply too much. Next, sand away part of the stained area with 400 grit to fade it to the second color. Do the second color the same way, overlapping as desired. Let it dry a bit and then hit it with just a touch of alcohol from the spray bottle -- make sure that it sprays a very fine mist and do not hold the bottle too close or it will cause blotching. While still wet, use a rag to gently wipe the two colors together. The next step should be done outdoors -- use a butane lighter to flare off the alcohol and raise the grain. Sand with 400 grit. Apply accent color as desired. Hit very lightly with alcohol. Rub it in with rag. Sand with 400 grit. If using a second accent color, apply very sparingly in desired spots. Blend it in and use slightly more alcohol for final blending. Do final touch up sanding with 400 grit. Let dry and then apply lacquer topcoat. Level and apply second coat. Repeat a couple more times and after leveling, the surface should be free of imperfections. Do final polishing with Micromesh to desired gloss level. On the platter that I showed in earlier post, I used dark blue, regular blue, yellow, and purple TransTint dye. The result was mostly green with some areas where the other colors dominate.
 
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May 10 issue of woodturning"ariticle on gilt cream, and liming wax used on ash. He (Mark Baker-edit) used a base color to highlight the ebonizing. Said to seal it first. "by applying sanding sealer , it is easier to get a sharp delineation between the softer wax-filled grain and the harder wood". It was a diff process but I thought the base would be similar- I/ll experiment. Think the dyes (from Craft supply) are here in town and should be delivered today. I don't have air brush capability. Not intending to do this much . I have alot of maple and it's boring unless alot of spalting, or curl/flame, etc. Gretch

For what it's worth, I believe the various angles of grain presented in curl are what dyes and stains highlight. They are the source of chatoyance, not the annual rings. This because the stain or dye will penetrate better into endgrain than face grain, making it darker, just as it will penetrate better into earlywood than latewood, making a contrast possible there even when the wood is relatively unexciting.

Sealing is a way to equalize things a bit, and can be exploited by sanding after the stain or dye, making a reversal look, where the latewood is lighter than the early. Pigmented stains or paints are different than dyes, and almost universally benefit from a seal coat. Liming is in the category of pigment staining or glazing.

I would think that you would have a lot of urban trees and pieces to work with there, Gretch, which means a lot of stress and strain that translates into funny grain. Trees grown with competition head for the sky rapidly if they want to survive, so they make good lumber, but not necessarily dramatic turning.

A spring-felled soft maple can be left in the log for a couple of months with some sun. This will cause the sap to ferment, giving off a characteristic winelike odor. It will also darken the normally pale wood significantly, which can be quite attractive. If you forget about it, it's still not much of a loss, because the next stage is staining, then spalting if you forget a whole second season.
 

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For what it's worth, I believe the various angles of grain presented in curl are what dyes and stains highlight. They are the source of chatoyance, not the annual rings. This because the stain or dye will penetrate better into endgrain than face grain, making it darker, just as it will penetrate better into earlywood than latewood, making a contrast possible there even when the wood is relatively unexciting.

Good point. If I am not mistaken, it is when the medullary rays in hardwoods have "character" that results in ripples and curls rather than simply being plain and flat that we see an illusion of depth that extends beneath the surface -- or, as the French say, chatoyance (the cat's eye). A visual characteristic of medullary rays which differs from annular rings is that they sometimes reflect with an almost metallic sheen.
 
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I should have said that you do not need to. I think that there is much more control over where the dye goes with paper towels and rags -- and certainly less mess.

I use paper towels if I'm doing a solid color, but for doing things like fade or shading effects, I get better results if I spray.

And I tend to make a pretty good mess whichever way I go with dyes. :p I've also learned that nitrile gloves might keep the dye off my hands, but they don't do much to keep it off my blonde hair when I brush it out of my eyes. I looked kinda cool with turquoise highlights, though. :D
 
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Vaughn I feel your pain, I got a lot of ribbing at work with the blue highlights in my handlebar. What the hairs are cold or is that icing in your stache or what have you been eating now? Some people are just cruel. :D
 
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thanks

Thanks for the tips, guys.
Can you tell me what coloration does to a plain maple bowl?? Does it have to be artsy in form, or lots of chautouncy??? or will it just look like plain colored bowl. Most of the dyed woods of Cincy and Bill, Jimmie Clewes are pretty spectacular to begin with. I can experiment with plain stuff too, so I won't ruin a "good" one, but will it "turn me off" if it is plain?????
Won't be able to experiment for a couple of weeks as I am going to work next week and then to a National professional meeting.besides if I use the 'firestick" it'll be warmer outside in 3 weeks-I think spring is coming, in fact I'll bet on it. Just when is the question. Gretch
 

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Thanks for the tips, guys.
Can you tell me what coloration does to a plain maple bowl?? Does it have to be artsy in form, or lots of chautouncy??? or will it just look like plain colored bowl. Most of the dyed woods of Cincy and Bill, Jimmie Clewes are pretty spectacular to begin with. I can experiment with plain stuff too, so I won't ruin a "good" one, but will it "turn me off" if it is plain?????
Won't be able to experiment for a couple of weeks as I am going to work next week and then to a National professional meeting.besides if I use the 'firestick" it'll be warmer outside in 3 weeks-I think spring is coming, in fact I'll bet on it. Just when is the question. Gretch

By the time that you sand it to 400 grit, you should be able to tell a lot about the chatoyance. Even "plain" maple is likely to have some depth. Just lightly wet the wood with alcohol or water to get an idea of how much figure to expect. However, while it certainly won't hurt to experiment with plain wood, do not expect the dye treatment to work miracles if there is no figure. Just think of it as working on technique and not as if you are making a gallery piece. So far, It seems like it is hard to mess up a piece of wood if you do not overdo the effect.

My opinion about dyeing is to apply the color sparingly and use more than a single color. In other words, do not just dunk the entire bowl into one color. A monochrome colored bowl will probably look worse than one with a clear finish unless there is something else going on in the bowl that justifies doing a monochrome color treatment. I also prefer if the coloring is not overdone -- if it is a platter then do only the rim -- if it is a bowl, pick an area to dye and use a border to delineate its bounds. Also consider having accented areas using art paints such as interference colors, pearlescent colors, and halo colors.

Once I have turned a maple blank round, I play with the dye colors before I begin any shaping just to see how the wood is going to behave with the various colors. Doing this helps me decide what I might want to turn and which colors would work best. For the most part, I like turning platters if I am going to dye them. Here is an example of some coloring that I did on a maple blank using purple, dark blue, blue, and yellow TransTint colors.

_MG_8039.jpg

There is a lot of "quilting" going on in this piece of maple, so I think that I will make a wide rimmed platter to show off the figure.
 
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Gretch, I've dyed several plain sycamore pieces...plain maple would be similar. I agree with Bill that a single color on plain wood doesn't tend to add much to the piece. Most of the dye jobs I do are either the multi-color blends similar to what Bill showed, or shading/fading using one or more colors. I've also done a few solid black bowls, but those were meant to be more of a study in form than show off the wood, and even then I played with different levels of gloss and things like liming wax.

The black bowl below is dyed black inside and out, with a natural color rim. The inside is finished with satin lacquer, and the outside is finished with gloss. (Pardon the photo. It hides a finish that's not quite up to par.)

Bowl%20072%20-%2003%20800.jpg

The green bowl uses a single color, but in varying levels of darkness. (I cheated and added a bit of black to my green dye as I got toward the bottom.)

Bowl%20094%20-%2001%20800.jpg

The hollow form fades from light yellow at the top to sunset red at the bottom.

HF057%20-%2002%20800.jpg

All of these are made of fairly plain sycamore, so I used them as practice pieces for color experiments. My best advice would be to just start experimenting and let your ideas run wild.
 

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I took a class in Jan with Jimmy Clews we used Spirit Dyes which I can't seem to find a source for.

Ed

It is just another name for aniline dyes that are dissolved in alcohol. Jimmy uses the word "meth" which may be either methanol or the Brit word for ethanol. He says that a license is required in the UK to purchase it. However, methanol is extremely toxic and unnecessary for dissolving aniline dyes. He mentions in one of his videos tha in the US, ethanol is used as the solvent. There used to be a few US companies that socked the brands of dyes that he used, but I have not found any place that carries them any longer. Use TransTint -- it is just as good and costs a heck of a lot less.
 
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I hate lacquer

You don't use an air brush with dyes -- just paper towels and old rags. Put some stain on the paper towel/rag and wipe it on the wood as necessary -- just go slow and do not apply too much. Next, sand away part of the stained area with 400 grit to fade it to the second color. Do the second color the same way, overlapping as desired. Let it dry a bit and then hit it with just a touch of alcohol from the spray bottle -- make sure that it sprays a very fine mist and do not hold the bottle too close or it will cause blotching. While still wet, use a rag to gently wipe the two colors together. The next step should be done outdoors -- use a butane lighter to flare off the alcohol and raise the grain. Sand with 400 grit. Apply accent color as desired. Hit very lightly with alcohol. Rub it in with rag. Sand with 400 grit. If using a second accent color, apply very sparingly in desired spots. Blend it in and use slightly more alcohol for final blending. Do final touch up sanding with 400 grit. Let dry and then apply lacquer topcoat. Level and apply second coat. Repeat a couple more times and after leveling, the surface should be free of imperfections. Do final polishing with Micromesh to desired gloss level. On the platter that I showed in earlier post, I used dark blue, regular blue, yellow, and purple TransTint dye. The result was mostly green with some areas where the other colors dominate.

OK Bill et al. I have been dabbling with color. I hadn't used lacquer before as Bill outlined
. I have colored 6-8 pieces now. MY inexperience with lacquer is showing. I have used hard maple, soft cottonwood, ash. As I build up the layers and hand buff with synthetic :"steel wool" -gray stiff + ultra fine in between lite coats. The lacquer I bought was from a paint store -"old Masters" -satin. The first couple of bowls went ok. Then The problem is that it has a dimpled surface all over-where there are no flaws. Looks like made in China.
Drove me nuts, sanded back reapplied a 7-10th layer-finally gave up on a natural edged ash white bowl with no natural color xcept for the crotch. This was after sanding to 400, then using 800=3200 micro mesh, and then buffing. I hate such a shine. One bowl came out ok, after I cut back the shine (just tripoli and white-no wax) with ultra fine synthetic. Then the ash was so ugly and I sanded it all back down (have spent 2-3 hours alone on "finishing" this one learning piece). Now am trying color, sanding sealer, and my old standby+danish or liberon oil. Am also experimenting with liberon liming wax. I hate lacquer. Did I just have a wrong knid?? Help!!!. Did I say I hate lacquer???? I kinda like the colors I have "created". Have showed a couple to friends and they said "wow". Gretch
 

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Gretch I use a lot of lacquer. I think you may be having problems with 2 things although it's hard to tell not holding the piece in my hand. One is that it may be drying before it can flow out. You might need some retarder or try thinning it differently. Usually I thin more but I am using too cheap of a spray gun so I have to play with the thickness a little.
I used the retarder in the winter but now I've quit using lacquer in the winter because I simply don't have a place to spray and don't want to die from the fumes.
The other thing is leveling the finish. I sand with 600 grit between each layer. If I want a smooth gloss (or satin) then you have to either spray enough coats to fill any imperfections, or you have to use a grain filler. What i do is sand until only the pores and imperfections are glossy. apply another coat, let it dry and do the same. Eventually when you sand the pores won't be glossy either. Now they are filled and you just need one or two more coats to have level surface. You can buff it up to whatever gloss you want.
Try diffferent lacquers. I found a local brand made to sell to professional finishers. It is great but you probably won't be able to by it. It's a company called Benco.
Lacquer did or does have a learning curve. I use it mostly for it's durability and repairability. Since each layer disolves the last one it's very easy to go back and repair a damaged piece.
I'm trying to get away from it due to the fumes. I just read an article about water based finishes and may try using those now. Of course I'm expecting a learning curve on that as well. Just like everyone else I'm wishing for the easy finish. near as I can tell a good finish with any product takes time and good preparation.
 

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Gretchen, from what it sounds like, it is called orange peel. Happens when the material is skinning and starting to dry before it can flow out. Try some retarded as John says. It doesn't need much, maybe %5 or so. It slows down the drying. Some manufacturers sell different formulas for different temperatures.

What lacquer brand and type are you using and what gun and tip size are you using? What is your thinning ratio?
 
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LaCQUER

Gretchen, from what it sounds like, it is called orange peel. Happens when the material is skinning and starting to dry before it can flow out. Try some retarded as John says. It doesn't need much, maybe %5 or so. It slows down the drying. Some manufacturers sell different formulas for different temperatures.

What lacquer brand and type are you using and what gun and tip size are you using? What is your thinning ratio?

Steve-I bought a spray can of the stuff (12 oz?-"Old Masters" brand from paint store where I was buying oil based stain for staining the new siding for my house)). Already made up. Didn;e experience the problem on the first 2 pieces I did. Maybe it was getting gummy in the can????
However I bought a quart of Minwax clear brushing lacquer from Home Depot earlier (before I was having problems) and a "disposable" spray applicator that a clerk and patron advised me on.(jar and pump=$5, lasts about 4 jar fulls patron said-and bought just spare "pumps" for $2.50 on sale.) Didn't get lacquer "thinner" tho. Will have to pick up some if i continue. I am now experimenting with my old way. (Liberon oil on a few pieces, but used mostly danish oil-am trying out yesterday and today.). Thanks for the suggestions-not going to give up yet.
What is the advantage of lacquer over Danish oil when usede over dyed woods??????????Durability?? Danish oil is easy to "repair" Gretch
 

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Steve-I bought a spray can of the stuff (12 oz?-"Old Masters" brand from paint store where I was buying oil based stain for staining the new siding for my house)). Already made up. Didn;e experience the problem on the first 2 pieces I did. Maybe it was getting gummy in the can????
However I bought a quart of Minwax clear brushing lacquer from Home Depot earlier (before I was having problems) and a "disposable" spray applicator that a clerk and patron advised me on.(jar and pump=$5, lasts about 4 jar fulls patron said-and bought just spare "pumps" for $2.50 on sale.) Didn't get lacquer "thinner" tho. Will have to pick up some if i continue. I am now experimenting with my old way. (Liberon oil on a few pieces, but used mostly danish oil-am trying out yesterday and today.). Thanks for the suggestions-not going to give up yet.
What is the advantage of lacquer over Danish oil when usede over dyed woods??????????Durability?? Danish oil is easy to "repair" Gretch

Spray can products are usually pretty tolerant, but not the best finish. Usually lower solids so that it can be used in a wider range of applications.
Are you spraying the brushing lacquer? I don't have any experience with that, but I think brushing lacquer is a little thinner so that it flows out and leaves less brush marks.
The disposable sprayers I think you are talking about is a Preval? A glass jar and replaceable aerosol cans on top? If so, make sure to run a good amount of thinner through them so they don't block up the tube and you have to throw them away. I would pick up some lacquer thinner and a little reducer. Reducer you may be able to get at a local auto paint house by the quart, if they have a house brand. You don't need much.
As for their quality, I never used them to spray a whole piece, but it would be more versatile than a spray can in that you can alter the product that went into it. If the brush lacquer is a true lacquer, then it is pretty repairable and I would favor it over a Danish oil.
As far as not liking the shiny, go to a satin or a different product that has flatteners in it. That works better than going glossy and having to cut it back in the "post production".

If this is a route you are going to pursue, think air compressors and spray guns.
 

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I agree with Steve that your finish has what is known as orange peel.

Lacquer is fairly easy to apply. Even though I have a spray gun, I normally just buy a can of Deft clear gloss lacquer. It dries much faster than most formulations so it takes a bit of experience in getting a good smooth flow. I have had poor results using some of the high solids spray can lacquers. I would suggest that you use a gloss lacquer rather than a satin lacquer. The satin lacquer contains ingredients that both obscure the transparency of the finish and scatters light. Instead of that, just use Micromesh to determine the level of surface sheen -- that way you can scatter light without obscuring the transparency.

The synthetic steel wool is not a good way to level the surface because it conforms to the existing surface, bumps and all. Use fine sandpaper or Micromesh with a flexible and semi firm backing. I like the stiffness that the double sided Micromesh has. The material is a stiff closed cell PVC foam. The objective here is to knock down the high places and not the entire finish. I find that double-sided 1500 Micromesh used wet is great for initial smoothing a surface. At 2400 or 3200 grit, you will have a nice soft satin finish. A gloss starts to develop at 4000 grit and looks great at 8000 grit (even better at 12000 grit). These high grits really need to be done wet to flush away dust and keep the Micromesh cool.

I have a very strong feeling that putting an oil finish over a dyed finish is going to produce some ugly results. Watco has a clear oil finish that is basically linseed oil and mineral spirits -- and both of those ingredients are likely to interfere with your dyed finish. I presume that you re not talking about the colored Watco products which are most definitely not a good idea.
 
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Lacquer

I agree with Steve that your finish has what is known as orange peel.

Lacquer is fairly easy to apply. Even though I have a spray gun, I normally just buy a can of Deft clear gloss lacquer. It dries much faster than most formulations so it takes a bit of experience in getting a good smooth flow. I have had poor results using some of the high solids spray can lacquers. I would suggest that you use a gloss lacquer rather than a satin lacquer. The satin lacquer contains ingredients that both obscure the transparency of the finish and scatters light. Instead of that, just use Micromesh to determine the level of surface sheen -- that way you can scatter light without obscuring the transparency.

The synthetic steel wool is not a good way to level the surface because it conforms to the existing surface, bumps and all. Use fine sandpaper or Micromesh with a flexible and semi firm backing. I like the stiffness that the double sided Micromesh has. The material is a stiff closed cell PVC foam. The objective here is to knock down the high places and not the entire finish. I find that double-sided 1500 Micromesh used wet is great for initial smoothing a surface. At 2400 or 3200 grit, you will have a nice soft satin finish. A gloss starts to develop at 4000 grit and looks great at 8000 grit (even better at 12000 grit). These high grits really need to be done wet to flush away dust and keep the Micromesh cool.

I have a very strong feeling that putting an oil finish over a dyed finish is going to produce some ugly results. Watco has a clear oil finish that is basically linseed oil and mineral spirits -- and both of those ingredients are likely to interfere with your dyed finish. I presume that you re not talking about the colored Watco products which are most definitely not a good idea.

Hey Bill-used a new can of the stuff on one today that I really sanded back from the "orange peel" (that is exactly what I had). It looks alot better. The first can didn't do it that I noticed, but was wondering if it were a factor of the kind of wood. didn't do it at first. Later as the can was "emptying" it did.
I have a micro mesh finish kit I bought several years ago. I used that on the ones I had trouble with. Probably started at too hi a grit. As I recall only a few pieces cost $10 . Am I correct that it is quite expensive??/ You suggested 400 grits between colors (which I did and then said "level the lacquer coats" not knowing what that meant i used the 0000 steel wool eqivalent (gray synthetic)..
Do you use the beal buffing system?? (I contacted Craft supply 2 days ago and asked for their suggestions-he said try that. I didn't like it .
One of the articles by Mark Baker ("woodturning" editor) was using color and then liming on ash. He used black color first, then sealed and then limed then oiled. I have a small ash nat edged bowl I am doing similar to. Will let you know. Pictures (when I figure out how to down size) probably won't show what we all are talking about. May get a chance to get some reducer and lacquer thinner tomorrow . Thanks for your help
as well as Steve and John, Gretch
 

Steve Worcester

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The beal system is good but not for this. I prefer to wet sand to level (after all the coats are applied) usually lightly at 800 or so to knock down the nibs and level it, then use Abralon 1000, 2000, 4000 - wet. Wet helps to eliminate lacquer buildup on the sanding medium and the scratches it would make. If I want glossy after that, then I use auto polishing compounds. 2K-4K would probably give you what you are looking for and maybe renaissance wax on top of that.
The 3M compounds will get you to mirror finish, but it is easier with a little orbital buffer. Beal system or any buffing wheel , I think, leaves too consistent of a straight scratch pattern and I don't like the way it looks when the light highlights the scratches.
Out of a can, you will likely get orange peel, but if you expect it, then it isn't too hard to deal with, you just need to sand it level. The idea is to get an off the gun finish and no buffing, with good adhesion between coats, like the custom automotive guys (they don't use lacquer much anymore), but I am not there yet.
If the spray is good, only a few coats are needed. You only need more when you have to sand between coats, which if you figure you spray, sand, spray sand, etc., when finished you don't have the sum total since you have sanded off in between.
 
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Steve, have you used or have any comments on Don Pencils plastic/lacquer buffing compound? I've not and don't know anyone that has is why I asked. And instead of water have you ever tried using lemon oil? When I was refinishing antiques some 30 years ago I had an old-timer give me that tip. I use to use it back then but haven't used it on my turnings as I don't use lacquer much. I might give it a try on one of mine this weekend if I can even find lemon oil at a local store.
 

Steve Worcester

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Steve, have you used or have any comments on Don Pencils plastic/lacquer buffing compound? I've not and don't know anyone that has is why I asked. And instead of water have you ever tried using lemon oil? When I was refinishing antiques some 30 years ago I had an old-timer give me that tip. I use to use it back then but haven't used it on my turnings as I don't use lacquer much. I might give it a try on one of mine this weekend if I can even find lemon oil at a local store.

I am guessing the PL is the one you are talking about. He gave me a beta version of the product, and I used it to hand rub out some bubble wrap marks at the symposium last year. I have since used it quite a bit on bowls with Behlens (General?) Salad bowl finish, and really liked it. Haven't tried it on what I shot from a gun, but I will give it a go.
As far as water vs anything else, the product I use isn't lacquer, it is a poly-urethane that is too nasty for home use. But since I have a process, and have worked out most bugs, I don't experiment in that process much. I would be worried the oils would limit adhesion, maybe not an issue with lacquers.
 
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