4 Jaw 6" Chuck For Old Lathe

[Gregg Adams]

Hi Everyone!
I've got an old lathe that I would like to fit with a 4 jaw 6" sync chuck, but I'm not sure what I need. My concerns are: Is the headstock too long and will protrude out of the chuck? I've attached a picture of the headstock which I believe is 1" @ 8TPI. Will a chuck fit directly on this or do I need some sort of an adapter? Does anyone have any recommendations on a good chuck that will fit this?

Thanks in advance,
Gregg Adams

 

[Mark Mandell]

Hi Everyone!
I've got an old lathe that I would like to fit with a 4 jaw 6" sync chuck, but I'm not sure what I need. My concerns are: Is the headstock too long and will protrude out of the chuck? I've attached a picture of the headstock which I believe is 1" @ 8TPI. Will a chuck fit directly on this or do I need some sort of an adapter? Does anyone have any recommendations on a good chuck that will fit this?

Thanks in advance,
Gregg Adams

Gregg,

Since your spindle has threads I believe that your first job is to remove that spur drive from the Morse taper in the spindle. Your photo appears to be an old Delta 1460 lathe, and, while you may think it's all one piece because the spur is likely rusted into the spindle, they are separate parts. To remove the spur at this point will require a 1 x 8tpi nut and a good thick washer. You'll have to cut the nut in half in order to get it onto the spindle threads. Take a regular thick steel washer with a hole just larger than the shaft of the spur drive, and cut an opening the same size as the interior to make a "U" shape. Apply rust solvent to the spindle/spur and squirt some through the spindle from the outboard side. Let sit, then tap the spur sideways with a piece of wood in several directions. Repeat the penetrating oil application and allow to sit. Drop your washer onto the spur (points down) in front of the spindle threads and behind the flanged head, lock the spindle, fit the split nut onto the threads, then use an good size adjustable wrench (not a pipe wrench) to snug the nut up to the washer and apply pressure. The spur should pop out. You'll then have some restoration work on the inside Morse taper, but your lathe will now take a scroll chuck that you'll buy with a 1 x 8 thread adapter. Do NOT try to pound the spur drive out with a rod from the outboard side at this point as you're likely to further damage the inside of the spindle.

When you're ready, a Vicmarc VM 100, a Technatool Nove G3, or a Oneway Talon chuck will do nicely on your 12" swing machine.

Good Luck!

PS: More later on restoring the Morse taper.

 

[James E Gaydos]

chuck

Hi Gregg,
This looks like an old Delta,or a Rockwell, or it could be a Walker Turner, Look for a name on the lathe first. It does appear to be a 1" x 8 thread. It also appears to have a nut screwed on the spindle. If it is a nut, soak and I mean soak the spindle, nut and the drive spur and inside the spindle if it is hollow with something like WD-40, or any type of rust remover.
Let it sit for a while and soak it some more. Do this a couple of times letting the fluid do it's thing and work it's way in to the rusted metal parts.
I would then attempt to knock the spur drive out from the other end through the spindle, unless the spindle is solid. If the spindle is solid, and that is a nut, take a fine wire brush and remove as much rust as possible. After doing that use a proper sized wrench and attempt to unscrew the nut. Unscrewing the nut will help to force the spur drive out of the spindle.If it won't move, try a little harder or maybe soak it again.
I have been able to remove a spur drive that was rusted a whole lot more than the one in your photo. One lathe I restored had been sitting in a barn for over twenty years and it was total rust. I used two big cans of WD-40 to clean it up, and it worked fine. If you need any more info just ask.
Oh and you can get a 4 jaw chuck that will fit. All the best
Jim

 

[Gregg Adams]

Thanks for the replys! I'm so lost on all of this. You don't know how much I appreciate the help. Heck I didn't even have a clue that the end would come off of the spindle. It sounds like I need to do a couple of days of soaking that thing with some lubricant. I'll get that started and I'll keep you updated on my progress... let's hope it's progress! I attached another picture so that maybe you guys can help me identify what kind of lathe it is. I haven't found any markings on it at all. The base has "Simplex" casted on each side, but I don't think the base came with the lathe.

Thanks again!

 

[James E Gaydos]

lathe

Hey Gregg,
That could even be an old Sears lathe.
Is the spindle hollow?
Is that a nut on the spindle?
Jim

 

[Mark Mandell]

Thanks for the replys! I'm so lost on all of this. You don't know how much I appreciate the help. Heck I didn't even have a clue that the end would come off of the spindle. It sounds like I need to do a couple of days of soaking that thing with some lubricant. I'll get that started and I'll keep you updated on my progress... let's hope it's progress! I attached another picture so that maybe you guys can help me identify what kind of lathe it is. I haven't found any markings on it at all. The base has "Simplex" casted on each side, but I don't think the base came with the lathe.

Thanks again!

Well, with that photo I can tell it's no 1460. As James mentioned, it looks like an old Rockwell/Delta. Used as a spindle lathe so they never took the spur drive out. The live center on the tailstock is much newer. You should crank that back until it ejects from the tailstock quill so you can get at that Morse taper as well.

It's fun to take old gents like this and bring them back to use. I've helped a couple of friends put vintage saws to very good use.

Have Fun!!

 

[Gregg Adams]

Ok, I'm shooting it with the WD-40 everywhere I can.
James: You asked if the spindle is hollow... It is. I can stick a screwdriver in it about 5" which is still quite a ways from the spur. I shot a picture of the hollow spindle named Hollow.jpg. You also asked if that was a nut on the spindle. I'm not sure but I don't think it is. Take a look at the picture Spur1.jpg. Thank goodness for cameras!
Mark: Take a look at the picture Spur2.jpg. Am I correct that just past the threads is where the spur will be breaking free from? I put the new live center on it. The old one(pictured in LiveCenter.jpg) was frozen and was burning the wood. Oh, I noticed that the jaw chucks that you listed look like they are mainly for doing bowls. Though I would love to try my hand at bowls, will those chucks hold a workpiece like a 1/2 diameter dowel? I had my eye on doing a rolling pin with spinning handles held by a wooden dowel, so I need to be able to do a range of sizes. Boring the holes in each end of the rolling pin is what got me started on wanting a jaw chuck. So I guess what I'm asking is will one of those chucks cover this range, or will I need to buy more than one?

Thanks guys for putting up with and helping this newbie!

 

[James E Gaydos]

old lathe

Hey Gregg,
OK, you got a hollow spindle.You need to get a steel pin or a longer screw driver and insert it into the hollow end of the spindle and wack the back of the spur drive with a hammer, or give it a few taps first, if the spur drive does not come out, put a rag or a glove on it to catch it, than wack it. It will come out. Make sure that anything you put in the hollow end is smaller than the hole, you do not want to damage the inside.
You will not hurt anything by doing this, maybe the end of the screwdriver, use an old one.

In the one picture, it looks as though that thing on the spindle is a nut. Some kind of home made one. I believe it will unscrew. Try it and see if you can turn it. Older Sears lathes had this type of set up. It will be a right hand thread. If you have too, hold on to the spur drive with a vise-grip wrench, but not by the prongs, or on the threads. Try to turn that nut loose. See if any of this works. That nut was put on the spindle for two reasons, one to help remove the spur drive, two, to prevent a faceplate from being over tightened.
Nice older lathe.
One chuck is all you will need, you can get different size jaws to fit. Look up the Super Nova 2, it is a very good chuck, I have three. Jim

 

[Gregg Adams]

Ok, I'll let the WD-40 sink in a day or two, and give all of the advice a try. I took a look at the Supernova 2. I like the looks of that chuck even though I don't know anything about them. I watched a couple of videos on it also. I'll give everything a try and report back in a day or two I hope.

Thank you!

 

[Mark Mandell]

Guys, the "nut" you're speaking of is part of the spindle and is used with a wrench to lock the spindle when unshipping a chuck. That's why it's got the two machined flats. Just leave it there, Gregg, although I doubt you have any choice.

Yes, Gregg, the spur will separate at the point you indicate. I personally don't care for knock-out bars (never used one on my Stubby). Instead I use a nut that fits my spindle threads with a washer that's welded to it. Spin it on, then insert the spur drive through the washer hole into the spindle's taper. Comes time to remove the spur, just back the nut off and the spur comes right out with it. No pounding/beating etc. on headstock or spindle.

Greg, suggest you invest in a good live center that uses a pint and cup (or has multiple tips), and s***can that dead center in the picture. The point center has limited use because when you apply pressure it will tend to split your wood.

 

[Jake Debski]

Greg to speed up the action of the WD-40 lift the Headstock end so that the penetrant flows toward the spur-drive. That will help keep more of it wet.

I would not use a screwdriver as a knock out bar. The tip is hardened and if you slip the morse taper could be galled. Try and find a 3/8" smooth steel bar and use that instead. You will need a decent knock out bar once the machines rehab is complete anyway.

 

[Gregg Adams]

Mark: I'm gonna hit the local hardware store and pick up a couple of 1" 8 TPI nuts tomorrow and so that I can try what you suggested. Thanks for the advice on the center I'm using. I'll definitely add a better live center to my list.
Jake: Great idea! The horizontal position does hinder the penatration of the WD-40. I've been wiping it up all night. I'll prop one side up and shoot some more to it.

We're gonna beat this stuck spur! Not literally

Thanks guys!

 

[john wallace]

WoodRiver chuck for your vintage lathe

I bought a Wood River chuck from Woodcraft for my vintage Craftsman lathe a few weeks ago and it works great. Less than $100 including the insert.

Before mounting the chuck I bought a die and die wrench from W.W. Grainger and cleaned up the threads on the spindle. 50 years of rust and crud are are gone. The damaged threads are cleaned up. The die was less than $10.00 the wrench for larger dies (1.5" dia) was about $25. I used lots of oil and cleaned the die several times while cleaning up the spindle threads. Well worth the time and effort IMHO.

 

[Gregg Adams]

John: Thanks for the info. My threads are a bit dinged up and probably could stand some repair. Also, I'll take a look at the chuck you mentioned. I definitely won't be buying one until I see that spur break loose, so I'm shopping around and open to suggestions that any of the forum members might have on chucks.


Take care!

 

[Mark Mandell]

Gregg,

If you do the split-nut trick to remove the spur, the sharp edges on the two nut pieces where you cut it in half will act much like a die to clean the spindle threads. You can do this by putting a hose clamp around the nut parts to hold them together around the threads and then run it back and forth along the along the threads.

m

 

[Gregg Adams]

Hey Mark, I tried to split a one inch nut using my plasma cutter. Probably not a good idea. It pretty much wrecked it. So much for splitting one the easy way. I've also been trying all of the suggestions that the others have posted. So far it hasn't budged. I'll keep on shooting the WD-40 to it and give it some time.

 

[Jake Debski]

Greg,

There are much better penetrating products than WD-40, which was actually developed as a water displacement oil.

PB Blaster is one that comes to mind. Drop in at your favorite Auto Parts store and see what they carry. The split nut is the best bet but having some one tapping on the spur drive while you apply pressure on the nut with a wrench will increase your chances for success.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Muscle!

Hey Mark, I tried to split a one inch nut using my plasma cutter. Probably not a good idea. It pretty much wrecked it. So much for splitting one the easy way. I've also been trying all of the suggestions that the others have posted. So far it hasn't budged. I'll keep on shooting the WD-40 to it and give it some time.

Hacksaw Greeeeeg Aaadamzzzzzz!

[Doesn't take all that much actually. Just a good sharp blade and a vice. That cutter will do the washer nicely tho. ]

 

[Gregg Adams]

Good news!!! I finally got it. Man was that thing in there! I think a combination of ideas made the stubborn thing give up. I still had a one inch nut left over that I didn't destroy, so I threaded it on the spindle and ran it on and off a few times. Now the threads look much better and should be ready for a chuck. My only problem is which chuck to buy. I did a forum search and on one post most of the members that chimed in really liked the Vicmarc VM 100. It looks like this could get expensive after buying a chuck, adapter, and a smaller set of jaws. I may do some more reading on the forum as to the favorite chuck of the members.

Thanks guys, I couldn't have gotten that spur out without your help!

 

[Gregg Adams]

LOL Mark. Yeah, a hacksaw would have been the better choice. See what happens when they let people like me play with sharp/dangerous objects!!! There for a minute I thought you were suggesting using a hacksaw to get the spur out! Hey, good thing I bought two of those nuts. You were right on it getting the threads in shape.

I'm so happy, it feels like Christmas!

 

[Joe Greiner]

If you're in frugal mode, consider Grizzly's clone of the Vicmarc, now about $105 with intermediate jaws. Pin jaws and 4" dovetail jaws are about $22 each. Not included in the blurb, it has 24 index holes. (I think Vicmarc has 32, also not yelled about).

 

[James E Gaydos]

chuck

Congratulations Gregg,:cool2:
You need to clean the spindle threads till they shine. Get all the rust off.
If you take a small fine triangular file to them, very carefully, it will clean them up like new.
As far as chucks go, you could take a look at Penn State Industries, they have good deals on chucks with multiple jaws. Penn State specializes in accsesories for smaller lathes.
Jim

 

[Rick Crawford]

Hi Gregg,
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned searching for your machine on this website... http://vintagemachinery.org/
Be careful, this site is very addictive to us tool junkies!

If you look at the photo index for lathes, take a hard look at the bed on one of the Delta Specialty lathes...looks similar to yours, but the tailstock is different. You can also look through the catalog and manual reprints to possibly find your lathe, and these can be downloaded...that's how I got mine for my Yates-American J170 lathe.

The table/stand that your lathe sits on, I believe you said it has a Simplex name on it...it looks like a commercial type sewing machine stand, and Simplex did make these. I don't think the stand and lathe were originally purchased together, especially with where the lathe is situated...you have to lean over quite a bit to use it.

Super Nova2 chucks are sometimes on sale, check out the various tool suppliers. They can be purchased without chuck jaws if you only want to purchase the base chuck and the pin jaws, but you'll find that the standard 50mm jaws will come in handy, too.

Smiles,
Rick

 

[Michael Mills]

Nova’s G3 chuck may be a good match for you also. Normally about $125 including insert on Amazon. Have seen them on sale at various WW stores for about $110. It will handle all the jaws the SN2 will except for the powergrip jaws.

 

[Gregg Adams]

Joe: I'll take a look at the one from Grizzly. I think I even have one of their catalogs laying around. You mentioned index holes... what are they for?

Jim: I'll sure do some good clean-up on the threads, and I'll give the triangle file a try. I like the layout of the Penn State Industries website. Easy to get around. Thanks, I'll dig around in it.

Rick: I can't wait to pass that vintagemachinery website along to a buddy of mine. He has some really nice 50's - 60's woodworking machines and will enjoy it as much as I'm sure I will. Matter of fact, I'm going to look at it after this post. I agree with you. The stand I have didn't come with the lathe. I mounted the lathe on the table and would have moved the lathe more toward the front but this is the best position for it to keep from rubbing the belt. When I first got it, the table was made of about 4 pieces of wood. It looked bad, and the belt rubbed.

Michael: I'll do some looking at that G3. It gives me another one to compare against the other models out there. The Nova name seems to also be pretty popular. The deeper I dig, the more I see how vast and elaborate the world of turning can be. Almost to the point of being intimidating!

 

[Joe Greiner]

Index Holes

The index holes are convenient for locating decorative features, such as flutes, uniformly around the work. Grizzly and Vicmarc have the holes on both the perimeter and the back face of the chuck. There are also purpose-made index wheels available for more variety of patterns. A latching contraption isn't too difficult to devise; for some projects I've used visual alignment only. A forum search for [indexing] will produce a cornucopia of examples and apparatus.

 

[Gregg Adams]

Thanks Joe, I'll do a search on that. Take care

 

[calvinjanes]

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2020042/18872/1-x-8-TPI-SelfCentering-4Jaw-Chuck.aspx

i just bought this last week, have turned 3 bowls and a saucer on it, and love it.its got multiple jaws available, and should do what you want. it holds something like 1 3/4 inch minimum material i think with the jaws that come on it, and only like $93 shipped. im pretty new to the hobby so i might not know everything, plus im just a stupid teenager but i do know that i LOVE this chuck. best of luck to ya! thats an awsome looking lathe

 

[Gregg Adams]

Thanks Calvin! I'll definitely consider that chuck. I took a look at your link, and that's a nice looking chuck. I like the case. That would be handy storage if I ended up with several different sizes. Oh, and you can't beat that price!

Thanks again, and take care!
Gregg Adams

 

[calvinjanes]

And as an added bonus, if you get a new late with different threads, the threads are just an insert so they can be changed. I plan on boing the flat jaw attatchments for it soon, and they're only 35 dollars. It's a great piece of equipment