Would this combination be ok for "food safe"?

odie · Feb 12, 2011

I've been using the General Finishes "salad bowl finish" for my bowls intended for use with food.......and, I'm not very happy with it.

The finish I've been getting with Danish Oil is much more appealing, in my opinion.

Would there be any drawbacks to using the Danish Oil, and allow to fully cure......and then use the General Salad Bowl Finish on top of that? As a wax to the finished product, Lemon Oil Wax would be used to complete.

Comments?

Thanks, ooc

davidwalser · Feb 12, 2011

Hmmm...

Well, since Danish Oil finishes, once cured, are considered "food safe", I have to assume a Danish Oil finish topped by a salad bowl finish would also be food safe. I don't think I'd bother with the salad bowl finish because I don't think its addition would make the Danish Oil extra-duper food safe.

Barbara Gill · Feb 12, 2011

For items to be used for food I use a penetrating oil followed by Claphams (beeswax and mineral oil). I sometimes will use a microcrystaline wax on the outside.

Vaughn · Feb 12, 2011

It's my understanding (and experience) that "salad bowl finish" is just a well-marketed wipe-on varnish/oil blend. Danish oil is also a wipe-on varnish/oil blend. I'm with David...I don't think putting the salad bowl finish over the Danish oil would offer any advantage at all.

Matt Hutchinson · Feb 12, 2011

I can't imagine adding the GF Salad Bowl Finish would add anything. A film finish on a salad bowl may look more "finished", but if it gets damaged then repairs and maintenance may be a problem for the average buyer. Since you like the Danish oils a lot, have you tried Mahoney's walnut oil? I have heard it's a good product....have yet to try it myself.

Just as an interesting side note, I had an opportunity to learn all about General Finishes products from one of their chemists. I can't remember what he stated about its formulation vs. regular wipe on poly, but that's basically what it is. The reason they market it specifically as food safe (versus their other products) is because it's the only product they make that has actually been sent to a lab to confirm and prove that it's non-toxic when cured.

Hutch

odie · Feb 12, 2011

Matt Hutchinson said:
I can't imagine adding the GF Salad Bowl Finish would add anything. A film finish on a salad bowl may look more "finished", but if it gets damaged then repairs and maintenance may be a problem for the average buyer. Since you like the Danish oils a lot, have you tried Mahoney's walnut oil? I have heard it's a good product....have yet to try it myself.

Just as an interesting side note, I had an opportunity to learn all about General Finishes products from one of their chemists. I can't remember what he stated about its formulation vs. regular wipe on poly, but that's basically what it is. The reason they market it specifically as food safe (versus their other products) is because it's the only product they make that has actually been sent to a lab to confirm and prove that it's non-toxic when cured.

Hutch

Howdy Matt........

Yes, it's true I've been using the Danish Oil for a long time.....and, have felt very satisfied with the results of the Natural blend.

It does appear to me that there is a distinct difference between the General Salad Bowl finish and the Danish Oil finish. That difference is the tendency of the Danish oil to soak into the wood, leaving the surface finish unsealed, and vulnerable to things like salad dressings and oils. The General Salad Bowl finish seems to make a more appropriate surface, in that the pores of the wood appear to me more sealed. I suppose I could use a sanding sealer prior to applying the Danish Oil, but I'm thinking I'd really rather have the Danish Oil be absorbed, rather than preventing that action.......

Salad bowls are something I've never focused on much, but do get a few requests for them.......so, I guess this is just something I'll have to work out the details on........

Haven't tried the Mahoney's Walnut Oil finish yet, but I am aware of it. If, for whatever reason, this idea of mine doesn't pan out, I may give it a try. I am usually slow and methodical about these things, so it might be awhile before my intentions are thoroughly tested......

ooc

Bernie Weishapl · Feb 12, 2011

Odie I use Mahoney's walnut oil and like it a lot. Easy to keep up. I also had the honor of talking with Ernie Conover. He uses antique oil on all his utility items. He told me General Finish is a poor finish for utility items and the food safe claim is just advertising junk. His words. He said today any finish is food safe if allowed to cure for a minimum of 72 hours. He said a long time ago he used General Finishes Salad bowl finish but he said they came back to him to figure out how to fix them because most of them had turned gummy after 2 or 3 yrs.

robo hippy · Feb 12, 2011

I use Mike's Walnut oil as well. I will not use any oil that is solvent based or has driers in it. Simply, I was talking to a woman at a show who was sensitive to petrolium distilates, and she informed me that it is not all gone. If it isn't some thing that I wouldn't be able to eat out of the can with out getting sick, then I won't put it on a bowl I would eat out of. Mike doesn't put any thing on his personal wood ware, but the oiled and wax make bowls look and feel better.

robo hippy

Gretch Flo · Feb 13, 2011

walnut oil

I have been using it for over a year-sometimes alone (as others have stated that maple yellows less with Mahoney's.) So I often combine (using Deft Dan oil first, rubbing, and then finishing up with Mahoneys. Not sure this is right in the long run with multiple washings. I want a person to be able to wash the item multiple times without it getting "furry" or lose it's luster.
Now Mahoney's alone will look great but after 4-5 days, loses its luster. More coats. Wait-loses its luster. That's why I may use the danish oil first. Too may coats of Danish oil makes it too shiny and too much hand rubbing needed.
I am now getting the best finish I have ever had with the following. One or 2 coats of sanding sealer, and after 400, I apply deft and sand with 600 or 800 and wipe "all" off right away. Magnification is used to detect any residual sanding marks. Then allow wood to thoroughly dry ( several days-using moisture meter-depends on how dry the wood was before turning, and usually I turn to 2/8- 3/8" ) . Then Danish oil. allow to dry 2-4 days. Rub with synthetic steel wool , then Mahoneys . one to 8 coats. Just depends on the wood. I like nice sheen , but not "plasticy" look or feel.
The problem with this regime it takes longer using 2 coats of sanding dealer both on the inside and outside. I just use the "down" time" cutting up blanks, or sand paper, or checking my 2 wood stoves. Gretch

MichaelMouse · Feb 13, 2011

odie said:
It does appear to me that there is a distinct difference between the General Salad Bowl finish and the Danish Oil finish. That difference is the tendency of the Danish oil to soak into the wood, leaving the surface finish unsealed, and vulnerable to things like salad dressings and oils. The General Salad Bowl finish seems to make a more appropriate surface, in that the pores of the wood appear to me more sealed. I suppose I could use a sanding sealer prior to applying the Danish Oil, but I'm thinking I'd really rather have the Danish Oil be absorbed, rather than preventing that action.......

"Danish" oil has less solids than a wiping varnish like the Salad Bowl Finish. It's also thinned to a lower viscosity which is why they say it "penetrates" better. Farther, anyway. If you use this knowledge to use your heavier resin finish to almost make a surface film -two coats of wiping varnish on woods like cherry, three on elm - which you abrade away with a 600 wet/dry or steel wood rub, you get what I like on a salad bowl. Though good sense should also tell you that the ultimate finish is vinegar and oil. You can slow the process, but short a continuous film, you can't avoid it. Burnished bare is a pretty good "finish."

You can heat the first coat of a wiping varnish in if you want. Lower viscosity will make it penetrate as far as the thinned Danish. Leave the bowl on the lathe and heat with your rag, or warm the finish in a minicrock and apply it static.

How does the lady with the sensitivity to petroleum products fill her tank, I wonder. The air at even a full-service station would be pretty rich.

KellyDunn · Feb 13, 2011

In a gallery setting you want the work to have art finish. That being a buff and wax. I used to use mineral oil as my salad bowl finish. Looks horrible pretty fast. I now use a thinned down poly mix. Goal is to have the pores have some good hard finish yet not built up. Normally a couple dips in my mix. Its been about 16 years since I switched to poly. If they use the bowl I suggest mineral oil. But also soap and water after use, then dry the bowl. If I get a bowl back that has been damaged with heavy oil soaked in I play hell getting any kind of glue to adhere because of the oil. If the bowl ends up just on display it looks great for a really long time. If one of those gets damaged its no big deal to glue it up and add a butterfly patch or so. Sand it flush and refinish it. After having made thousands of salad bowls its what works for me.

Bill Travelstead · Feb 14, 2011

Read this article by Bob Flexner on this subject:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/finish3.html