Is it "proper" to make the urn only hollowing out the end grain or is the side grain approach OK?
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Pet urns
- Thread starter cwearing
- Start date
The urn will become oval if the opening is in the side grain and the lid will become very lose and very tight as the seasons change. The structural design of a side grain hollow form tends to fail over the seasons. You can overcome this issue in a few ways. Make the urn thin walled so that the urn is flexible (likely opens up other issues). You can stabilize the wood by coating inside and out with epoxy so that there is no seasonal moisture transfer. Also hollowing is more challenging through a side grain opening as the grain direction changes with the spinning wood.
You could provide a larger cover for the opening with a lose tenon to keep the lid positioned through the seasons.
The bottom line is that end grain urns are usually easier to turn and more predictable in use.
Good Luck with your efforts
You could provide a larger cover for the opening with a lose tenon to keep the lid positioned through the seasons.
The bottom line is that end grain urns are usually easier to turn and more predictable in use.
Good Luck with your efforts
I have turned them both ways, and have had no problems. I use pvc threaded inserts in the openings. I prefer to turn them end grain. I turn them green, let them dry, and then re-turn them. I leave them about 3/8" thick to help prevent breakage in the event they fall.
I've only turned one urn (for human cremains), but a number of hollow forms, and all have been turned side grain. I've not run into the movement problems you've mentioned. Most were turned green, then dried and re-turned. Granted the urn lid was never a "pop" fit, and it's sealed with epoxy, but it went over a year before being filled and sealed, and I never noticed a marked change in the fit of the lid.
Future urns will use threaded PVC like Jeff mentioned, though.
I prefer turning side grain because I like the way it shows the wood better in most cases.
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I guess epoxy is the definitive finish, but dipping in polyurethane seems a good way to keep inside and outside working wet at the same rate. Remember to give extra cure time for the thick coat you're liable to have.
Make the top from the same wood and grain orientation and you minimize fit problems. Oval lids fit oval holes pretty well. I like to run a thin parting tool groove around the tenon to accept an O ring. Keeps things tight even when the wood won't.
Make the top from the same wood and grain orientation and you minimize fit problems. Oval lids fit oval holes pretty well. I like to run a thin parting tool groove around the tenon to accept an O ring. Keeps things tight even when the wood won't.
Pet "Urns"
At the craft show last week, a veterinarian friend saw my toothpick holders/key chains and suggested it for pet cremains. Neat idea. Gretch
At the craft show last week, a veterinarian friend saw my toothpick holders/key chains and suggested it for pet cremains. Neat idea. Gretch
As a pet lover/owner, I have turned several urns both for my own pets and for friends that have lost a pet. Side grain does show off the wood better, end grain works better in the changing climate of Oklahoma. Hot and humid in the summer, cold and dry in the winter.
Have not done the PVC insert but have seen it done on urns for human cremains.
Have not done the PVC insert but have seen it done on urns for human cremains.
My pet urns
I have turned urns in both side and end grain orientation and have found that side grain tends to warp a bit more, causing me more work. I will however use the side grain method if the wood has a super feature or grain that will make the extra work worth wild. There are several solutions for the
lid that can deal with warpage, but I am with Michael, that o-ring sounds like the ticket.
Dwight
I have turned urns in both side and end grain orientation and have found that side grain tends to warp a bit more, causing me more work. I will however use the side grain method if the wood has a super feature or grain that will make the extra work worth wild. There are several solutions for the
lid that can deal with warpage, but I am with Michael, that o-ring sounds like the ticket.
Dwight
Steve Worcester
Admin Emeritus
If you turn it side grain and do a twice turned, or start with DRY,DRY, wood, you won't have issued
Yes , big box store or hardware store, in plumbing department. several sizes are available.
Pvc
I would steer away from pvc for the simple fact that it has a tendency to freeze up when tightened to tightly. I buy ABS 1/2 male and female fittings(black plastic) and they work excellent with no problems with freezing up.
I would steer away from pvc for the simple fact that it has a tendency to freeze up when tightened to tightly. I buy ABS 1/2 male and female fittings(black plastic) and they work excellent with no problems with freezing up.
pvc
A few wraps with thread sealing tape (Teflon aka PTFE) will reduce seizing.
A few wraps with thread sealing tape (Teflon aka PTFE) will reduce seizing.
or dont use ugly tape and buy black ones? I would not want to sell an urn to someone and tell them....here is some tape, put that on there so it doesn't freeze up on you.
Angelo
President Emeritus
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Re-open
Why would one want to re-open an urn once it has been filled?
I was under the impression that when they are sealed they are sealed forever.
Interested to hear more.
Angelo
Why would one want to re-open an urn once it has been filled?
I was under the impression that when they are sealed they are sealed forever.
Interested to hear more.
Angelo
I have made small urns for friends. One guy says he opens the urn so his dear departed friend can "visit" with him. Yea I know it sounds a bit creepy but if you knew the person you would know that it isn't creepy at all. The point is that folks interact with the departed in many different ways. Opening the urn from time to time is one of those ways.
Steve Worcester
Admin Emeritus
That was my thought as well. But I didn't want to hear more.
The one I made was for a cat and sealed with wax with a glass top.
Angelo
President Emeritus
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Dust to Dust
I have our dog Roxie but have no desire to let her out of the can!
I think I would seal with wax but not sure I would want the contents open to fresh air
A
I have our dog Roxie but have no desire to let her out of the can!
I think I would seal with wax but not sure I would want the contents open to fresh air
A
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
Well I've only built one urn for my wife and plan to open it once when I dump her ashes at our favorite spot. I told my son he could have the urn to use when I go so it will be opened maybe 4 times.
I have turned a lot of threaded boxes. I played with PVC. It threads really easily or you can simply buy two mating parts and turn down the non thread areas to fit into a groove in your vessel. What I haven't found is a way to guarantee it won't come unglued. Nothing seems to stick PVC to wood for very long.
A better alternative is to cast epoxy into a groove in the vessel and chase the threads into that. Epoxy takes a thread really well, bonds to the wood, and can be colored or left clear. Since you can cast it on top of the wood you can more easily match the grain on smaller vessels. This worked great on the above mentioned urn because I only had one piece of wood large enough and dry enough to turn the urn from. It was too soft for threads so I used the epoxy method.
Why does it have to be threaded? You can make a tapered fit that would seal with wax. You could also use O rings to make a pressure fit that won't come loose as long as the neck of the vessel is strong enough not to break from that pressure.
I have turned a lot of threaded boxes. I played with PVC. It threads really easily or you can simply buy two mating parts and turn down the non thread areas to fit into a groove in your vessel. What I haven't found is a way to guarantee it won't come unglued. Nothing seems to stick PVC to wood for very long.
A better alternative is to cast epoxy into a groove in the vessel and chase the threads into that. Epoxy takes a thread really well, bonds to the wood, and can be colored or left clear. Since you can cast it on top of the wood you can more easily match the grain on smaller vessels. This worked great on the above mentioned urn because I only had one piece of wood large enough and dry enough to turn the urn from. It was too soft for threads so I used the epoxy method.
Why does it have to be threaded? You can make a tapered fit that would seal with wax. You could also use O rings to make a pressure fit that won't come loose as long as the neck of the vessel is strong enough not to break from that pressure.
wax seal
I made a couple of small urns for a friends dog that was going to be put down in a few months. I made a 4 (small). Ones not used, I had on hand and had the opportunity to get some of my mothers ashes. One urn for my sister and one for me. I sealed a lid with hot glue. and a few years later someone noticed it loosening-I redid about 7 years ago and she still sits on my mantel. The cats knocked her over once 5 feet to the floor and the seal held well. Looks good this am. Gretch
I made a couple of small urns for a friends dog that was going to be put down in a few months. I made a 4 (small). Ones not used, I had on hand and had the opportunity to get some of my mothers ashes. One urn for my sister and one for me. I sealed a lid with hot glue. and a few years later someone noticed it loosening-I redid about 7 years ago and she still sits on my mantel. The cats knocked her over once 5 feet to the floor and the seal held well. Looks good this am. Gretch
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PVC urn threads + picture
I didn't want my dog's urn to open again.
I used a mechanical step in the wood and turned PVC irrigation fittings to fit the step. I turned the PVC fitting (Lowes) from 2" tall to 1/2" of threaded parts. The combination of a stepped fit, stepped PVC and extra epoxy ensures a forever seal. I tend to have the thickness at the glue joint to be around 3/8" while the rest is thinner. The PVC extends a bit into the cavity and then I put more epoxy inside and let it flow back against the PVC. That makes it a 2-step glue process.
The top has a slight concave shape under to help hide the white pvc connection. A crack in the bottom was filled with epoxy, to which shoe dye can be added prior to application if you wish to avoid the obviousness of 'glue fill'.
Super Glue will crystalise after 5-8 years and flake off.
I hope the picture comes thru.
I didn't want my dog's urn to open again.
I used a mechanical step in the wood and turned PVC irrigation fittings to fit the step. I turned the PVC fitting (Lowes) from 2" tall to 1/2" of threaded parts. The combination of a stepped fit, stepped PVC and extra epoxy ensures a forever seal. I tend to have the thickness at the glue joint to be around 3/8" while the rest is thinner. The PVC extends a bit into the cavity and then I put more epoxy inside and let it flow back against the PVC. That makes it a 2-step glue process.
The top has a slight concave shape under to help hide the white pvc connection. A crack in the bottom was filled with epoxy, to which shoe dye can be added prior to application if you wish to avoid the obviousness of 'glue fill'.
Super Glue will crystalise after 5-8 years and flake off.
I hope the picture comes thru.
Attachments
pet urn
Very Nice, Richard!!!!, Gretch
Very Nice, Richard!!!!, Gretch
The attached is a write up by Brad Adams on threaded insets.