piercing question

[Michelle Rich]

Does one really need an expensive 400,000 rpm air tool and a compressor to do piercings? Packard Woodworks has 2 drill bit type units that go in a dremel and run 35,000rpm. Would this be an acceptable way to go about it, or will this not cut fast enough, and not clean enough? Thanks

 

[Gynia]

The advantage of the 400,000 RPM unit is that the direction of cutting is mostly unaffected by the grain of the wood. The 35,000 RPM and slower units tend to be influenced by the grain of the wood which may push or pull the cutting off line.

The higher speed unit is easily bogged down so wood that is more than 1/16" thick will need several passes to get through.

The faster unit is good for control and the slower unit is better for deeper cuts.

 

[Mike Peace]

I am no expert but compared a dremel with a hi speed handpiece at a piercing workshop my club had. My take was that it could be done with a dremel if you have the patience. A dremel is a low cost wasy of trying some piercing. But, the dremel does not cut as well as Gynia said. The dremel is much heavier and more awkward in your hands. My take is piercing can take hours to do a piece. It would not be enjoyable with a dremel. YMMV.

 

[Michelle Rich]

Thanks Gynia & Mike. I also asked this at sawmill creek, and people are telling me what you both have. The speed gives you contol & the small handpiece makes it easy to use in one's hand. Like using a pen. This is a very expensive "toy" as I do not have a compressor either, and I may not even like it when I go to do it. Hate to spend 800.00 and hate using the tools!!

 

[john lucas]

Mike I've tried a lot of alternatives to the ultra high speed tools and there really isn't an alternative. I've used 3 different types over the years when taking a class or borrowed from a friend. I've tried the small air die grinders that run 50,000, the small electric carvers that run about 50,000 and of course the Dremel and Fordom. For a small occasional job they work. As mentioned above they want to follow the grain so you have to nibble away at the cut and really grip the tool. I did a vase several years ago with a 3/4" pierced band around the lip. It took about 2 1/2 hours. I was only able to work about 15 minutes at a time before fatique made me sloppy. This would have been about a 15 to 30 minute job with a high speed tool.
So to answer your question. Yes it can. I've done it on several pieces. But I will preface that with, if there is any way you can afford the high speed tools do it. If you are going to do very much of it then it is a waste of your time not to buy one.

 

[Michelle Rich]

thank you John for sharing your experience with all the options. Good to hear from a person who has done them all. Experience is a good teacher.

 

[Gynia]

This is a very expensive "toy" as I do not have a compressor either, and I may not even like it when I go to do it. Hate to spend 800.00 and hate using the tools!!

Borrow one of the hugh speed tools, perhaps someone in your woodturning club has one you could borrow. It is easy to burn up the tiny bits so you may need to provide replacement bits. Getting a quick lesson in proper use would help make your "tryout" more valuable to you.

 

[Bill Boehme]

If you do some shopping, you can find refurbished high speed drills for about $100.

 

[DOCworks]

Ranting

I would like to rant a "little" bit... Bill B. is the reason, no I'm not upset, Bill's comment that you can get a used one for $100. He is absolutly correct, BUT then what? Do you get the whole unit, do you still have to buy a compressor, etc? This is not directed at Bill, this is directed at everyone who has offered a "cheaper" solution and I'm as guilty as the next guy. I do some carving and piercing of my pieces and when I took a class on surface texture the instructor had this cute little mini orbital sander that really helped speed up the project, she wouldn't tell me how much it was other than it was stupid expensive for what you got. She was right, almost $80 with shipping. So I says to myself hey this ain't that tough I can make it much cheaper...and I can I put one together for about $12, BUT I bet I spent $80 in time, gas and mistakes. But you don't see much information on these pages about working through the cheap solutions. Just you can do it cheaper. Now the lathe vacuum systems you can find instructions on doing it cheap. We need more instructions on doing it cheap. For starters....most of us can get "cheap" dentist drill...but how do you hook up a 4 port dental drill to your air compressor. What or were do you get the fittings to make it work? Sorry for the rant, I'll shut up now.

 

[Matthew Clarke]

Bill,
Well stated, no apology necessary. Sometimes we all need to be reminded of the adage that, "You only get what you pay for." Often, we fail to factor all of the things you mentioned into the 'price' that we pay for homemade. On the other hand, if someone really enjoys (gets real satisfaction) out of working those issues out, then, it doesn't become part of the problem because 'the reward was in the journey.' I'll be quiet now too.

Matt

 

[egsiegel]

Bill,
Well stated, no apology necessary. Sometimes we all need to be reminded of the adage that, "You only get what you pay for." Often, we fail to factor all of the things you mentioned into the 'price' that we pay for homemade. On the other hand, if someone really enjoys (gets real satisfaction) out of working those issues out, then, it doesn't become part of the problem because 'the reward was in the journey.' I'll be quiet now too.

Matt

I just wait until Matt buys it and borrow it from him.

Ed

 

[john lucas]

Your talking to the king of doing it cheap only to buy the real thing a few year later. I guess it's the cheap side of me that gets a thrill out of it. I do learn other valuable things while trying to do the cheap inventions.
You didn't mention things like buying a $170 dollar welder to build a $39 tool rest. Oh and that doesn't count the $175 dollar horizontal bandsaw I bought to speed up cutting those things. Then add on the $39 el cheapo angle grinder I bought to clean up the bad welds. I've made about 6 tool rests now so I'm in the hole $150. However you can't count the joy I've had learning and in reality I've made a lot more stuff with those tools.
I do want to get a High speed carver so if we can get back to the topic and actually name brands that people like or if you have a source for the cheaper ones that work it would be much appreciated.

 

[LHauch]

I use the NSK Presto sold by Craft Supplies and got a set of bits from Binh Pho (the long versions of the bits are a little hard to locate). I did not get the control unit, as I'm fairly adept at plumbing, so I built my own setup (I did purchase an Iwata air gauge/filter - air brush folks hate water in the lines.)
I would also recommend the oil-lubricated dental drill sets from Brian McEvoy http://www.onegoodturn.ca which are a little less than the NSK.
It all boils down to how often you plan on using them.
The maintenance cost of the NSK (replacement turbine) is higher than the dental drill sets. However if you only use it occasionally and don't try to force it through the wood, it could last a lifetime. If you use it a lot and have a "heavy" hand, you might be better served with the oil-lubricated ones just because of the price of the replacement turbine.
Both the NSK and Brian's tools run at about 400,000RPM and require a compressor that has a minimum of a 3/4hp motor. You need to be able to sustain 4CFM @ 40 - 42psi to run at that speed. Anything less, and you'll just slow the speed down (taking longer to cut through.)

 

[DOCworks]

I do enjoy doing it myself, most of my tool rests I made and the cost of my MIG welder will probably never be recooped, but it's really fun to play with. I did same money when I built my hollow form base for my small lathe, that way I don't have to have two rigs or tear it down. I make my own tool handles which I like better than the store bought and they protect the edge when traveling. But of all the "cheap" stuff I've done my tool holder is the one I like the best. Plastic bin and PVC with a wood bottom. Works great.