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Delta/Milwaukee 1460 RPM range

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Looking for an older used lathe, I came across a Delta Milwaukee 1460. The price seemed right, so I went to look at it. The lathe is in GREAT shape, obviously very well taken care of. Everything is original, but looks like its only a couple years old. Well, it would be at the top of my list right now if it wasn't for the fact that it only has 4 speeds, and I don't know if the slowest one looked slow enough for turning bowls/vessels. I don't know what the RPM's are, I'm having a hard time finding that online. Does anyone know what they are, or where to find that info? Edit: I just found it, the range is 900 to 3400.

Does anyone have experience turning on this lathe? They made the same lathe with a counter shaft that gave 16 speeds. Too bad this isn't that version. Is there an easy/inexpensive way to give it a slower speed? At this point I don't have the expertise or the money to get into VFD, are there any other options?? I just really liked this lathe, but don't want to limit what I can turn!

Thanks again everyone!
Dan
 
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Countershaft it. I'd go 3:1 ratio to get the bottom end to a comfortable 300 rpm. You'll need a shaft - recommend ball-bearing - which will support your existing motor cone pulley on one end, and a, say 3" on the other. Mount a 1" on the motor, and Robert's your relative.

Generally this kind of counter involves a mount of the motor and shaft on the same moveable member, so rig a lever to lift and allow belt changes without having to grunt. Motor goes toward the mount, of course, or it'd be even heavier.
 
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Agreed. 900 is too fast for lowest speed. Check out Grizzly bench mandrels for countershafts. Model #s G5546 through G5549. Two sizes with bronze, two with ball, bearings.
 
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900 as a minimum speed would be too fast for me too, and not just by a little bit.
It seems you are finding no shortage of candidate lathes to look at, so it's now a matter of patience maybe?
You could rig this one to run in a slower, or an expanded, speed range with a countershaft and all that, but what you want to do is get a lathe and start turning, right? Rather than jumping right into a bunch of mechanical work?
Anyway, rigging a countershaft, while certainly doable, is often not as outright simple as it may sound, for a whole bunch of reasons that may not be apparent until you actually get into it.
I'd keep looking, but that's just me, as always.
 
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The countershaft seems like a great idea. If I decide to go with this lathe and go that route, I'll have to get some more details on the right way to do it. Since Delta made a version with a countershaft, I wonder if there are any parts out there to use.
Anyway, Dave you have a good point too. As much as I really like this lathe, I'm not sure I'm up to the task of modifying it right out of the gate. I'll have to give it some real thought. I could certainly start turning smaller things right away, but it sounds like 900 RPM would restrict me to that.

I attached a photo of a similar lathe, unfortunately I don't have a pic of the exact one I'm looking at. The one I saw was in slightly better shape, but it's the same lathe.
 

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Dan, 900 is too fast as a minimum speed for anything of any size at all, and especially for bowl work much bigger than an egg cup.
No kidding.
I'm not trying to swing you one way or the other, but if you get this unit you will want to slow it down or it will make you crazy. It would me, anyway.
 
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Delta/Milwaukee Speed Range

The old Delta countershaft units can be found on eBay once in a while and they'll cost about $100 plus shipping. It's not difficult to make one. You need 2 pulleys with 4 steps (to get 16 speeds) that have a 5/8" or 3/4" bore, a matching shaft about 15" long and 2 pillow blocks to fit the shaft. You also need a belt to connect the motor and the countershaft unit. I made one for about $50, with most of the parts coming from eBay.
Tim Carter
 

Bill Boehme

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... I attached a photo of a similar lathe, unfortunately I don't have a pic of the exact one I'm looking at. The one I saw was in slightly better shape, but it's the same lathe.

I believe that is the exact same model lathe that I saw a week ago. I was visiting a friend who is a 97 year old active woodworker. He gave me and my dad a tour of his shop to show us some of his current projects. I have been in his shop several times, but I got distracted by the lathe and turning tools on this visit -- I think that there was a total of about six or seven tools. Most of his tools were worn down to the handles and none were the fancy tools that are so popular today. He said that he does not use the lathe much any more, but I noticed that his tools all had bright sharp edges.
 
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Countershaft it. I'd go 3:1 ratio to get the bottom end to a comfortable 300 rpm. You'll need a shaft - recommend ball-bearing - which will support your existing motor cone pulley on one end, and a, say 3" on the other. Mount a 1" on the motor, and Robert's your relative.

Generally this kind of counter involves a mount of the motor and shaft on the same moveable member, so rig a lever to lift and allow belt changes without having to grunt. Motor goes toward the mount, of course, or it'd be even heavier.

Michael,
I'm trying to envision what you're describing here, and I think I understand it to an extent. My question is if I have a 3:1 right from the motor, wouldn't this affect the top range RPM's and not allow the higher speeds? I'm not overly mechancially inclined, but I'm usually decent with common sense. But I have a feeling it's failing me this time.

Thanks

Dan
 

Bill Boehme

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^ It would affect both by the same ratio. Therefore, you would have 300 to 1100 RPM. Sounds OK for bowl turning. If you want faster, try a 2:1 ratio to get 450 to 1700. For bowl or spindle turning there is rarely a reason to go faster.
 
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It depends on the amount of real estate available, especially the length of the motor shaft. If that shaft can hold two pulleys (in two sizes), put an opposing pair on the countershaft, with existing cone pulleys (opposing) on the countershaft and the lathe spindle. In effect, you've created a two-speed intermediate transmission, for 8 final speeds.

If the motor shaft can hold a 4-step cone pulley, use an opposing cone on the countershaft, and continue as above. This will be a 4-speed intermediate transmission, for 16 final speeds. The tricky part will be finding another set of cone pulleys, which need not be the same cones as the other.

The 8-speed version could be manageable. The 16-speed will likely be somewhat disorderly. A spreadsheet can create a table of final speeds for different combinations, to be attached to the lathe. Brute force with a calculator can do the same.

The whole affair can be made even weirder, by allowing the motor and/or the countershaft to slid along its own axis. My 1929 Delta had such an arrangement, but without the countershaft, and a cone pulley only on the spindle.
 
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Michael,
I'm trying to envision what you're describing here, and I think I understand it to an extent. My question is if I have a 3:1 right from the motor, wouldn't this affect the top range RPM's and not allow the higher speeds?

Yes, it would take away the higher speeds, but they're really not too important in woodturning. Actual cutting speed is a function of how many times a spot comes past and how fast you're feeding the tool. Most useful for all human versus wood work is going to be in the 500-1000 range.

You can choose a 3:1 or 2:1 or something in-between. you could even go jazzbo and have all kinds of options you'll never use, because it's turning, not tweaking that you'd rather spend time doing. As long as I had a bandsaw, I'd consider a 450 low end useable for your capacity.
 
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Joe - That's certainly a consideration, I think there is plenty of room on the motor shaft since a 4-step pulley is on there now. If I'm thnking of that the right way, I'd get low end RPM's, and high, and maybe even a couple speeds that would end up way too high? Not a big deal if that's the case, I suppose

Is there anything that would keep me from putting two, say, 2" pulleys on the motor, then one 6" and one 2" on the countershaft? That way, I could basically keep my original range by going 2" to 2", then have a stepped down range by going 2" to 6" ?? (just randomly picked sizes, of course)

Michael - Thank you, just wanted to make sure I was thinking of that the right way. Maybe this is all overkill if I don't really need the higher speeds. I guess I thought those speeds were useful for spindle turning or smaller pieces. I'm still learning all this stuff.

thanks again,

Dan
 

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Joe - That's certainly a consideration, I think there is plenty of room on the motor shaft since a 4-step pulley is on there now. If I'm thnking of that the right way, I'd get low end RPM's, and high, and maybe even a couple speeds that would end up way too high? Not a big deal if that's the case, I suppose

Is there anything that would keep me from putting two, say, 2" pulleys on the motor, then one 6" and one 2" .....

Some considerations are:
1. How much travel you will need in the tensioning mechanism when the sum of the belt wrap lengths for your pulley combinations is not kept fairly constant.
2. Pulley rim speed is important so when selecting a pulley make sure that it will not be exceeded.
3. Do not exceed the maximum FPM belt for the belt length being used.
4. Check wrap angle vs. pulley radius for the belt used. Too much wrap and length will result in belt slap be rapid wear.
 
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...Is there anything that would keep me from putting two, say, 2" pulleys on the motor, then one 6" and one 2" on the countershaft? That way, I could basically keep my original range by going 2" to 2", then have a stepped down range by going 2" to 6" ?? (just randomly picked sizes, of course)

Something like that would be my preference. Sixteen speeds is more choices than I'd need, and like MM says, some of them would never be used.

For properly-fitted V-belts, the pitch diameter is very close to the OD of the pulley, which makes the arithmetic easier. I'd set up a spreadsheet matrix, with auxiliary fields for the first set of pulleys, and massage those numbers to display the spindle speeds. Even in a perfect world, the two ranges could have a gap or overlap - so what? You can expect about 5-10% variation as the belts wear anyway, as well as resistance to cutting.
 
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Delta 1460

I have this lathe and it had the 16 speed and I changed it over to DC motor years ago, works great.
 
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IMO too much is being made about low end speeds on some of the older lathes. While I agree that 900 rpm is higher than desirable it's still usable. I've had lathes in the past that had similar low speeds and they worked fine for me. If you have a bandsaw to get a blank of 10 or 11 inches in dia. nearly round then you really don't have a problem. A little shake, rattle and roll is just a part of bowl turning. A few minutes of work with a gouge takes care of that. Most of those older lathes had a max capacity of 12 inches.

The first lathe that I had that had a low end speed of just under 400 rpm was a General 260 Reeves drive. That was after over 30 years of turning on lathes that required a belt change to change speeds, and they all had quite high low end speeds. With the General, unless I had an ubalanced blank mounted I seldom used the lowest speed. The second speed was probably around 600. That was nearly always comfortable. It takes only a few minutes of turning on a vibrating lathe to turn the blank so that it's balanced.

I taught for 10 years at a local Woodcraft. We had 5 Jet Mini lathes. In my beginners bowl classes I set the speed at 1200 rpm and it stayed there. Students started off with 7 x 3 inch blanks that had been rounded on a bandsaw. My first demo to them was to show them how to quickly bring the blank into round. Nobody ever had a problem, even though the lightweight mini's weren't even bolted to the benches.

I agree that a jackshaft setup would be a good thing to install. The fact is that until recently all lathes were actually designed with the spindle turner in mind.

Wally
 
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Adding a countershaft

Hi Dan,

If you can find it, I just saw a 1994 video by David Ellsworth called "Shop Stuff, Tips for Turners, Tape #2". It descibes how he built and added on a countershaft to his lathe. It went in to a fair amount of detail on how to build the system and what size pulleys to use. Hope that helps.

Ron
 
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