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Street Fair Woodturner stand Observation

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Last night I went to the street fair and came up on a guy that said he was as turner/sculptor. I saw he had several vessels that were fairly large in size and allowed me to pick one up to take a close look at it. I asked him a couple questions in a curious way.

First was why he cut out such a large plug in the bottom of the vessel (some 4" plus in size). He told me that it was the only way to control cracking at the center of the log. I told him there are other ways to control the cracking even with the pith in and that started a good conversation about his work.

Second was what he used for a finish - he said he coats them with linseed oil and then uses Varathane - usually a few coats and that completes the finish.

I only mentally critiqued his work because my stuff if far from perfect but I noticed a few things that I didnt like. The sanding was not that great and I could see the sanding lines if you look close in the light. His idea of a vessel is a poor one because while the outside looks like a nice vessel shape the inside was not hollowed out at all and therefore made the vessel very heavy. He had drilled a hole straight down and called it done. The finish had a few spots of what i would call aligatoring in the finish - like maybe he put it on to soon before the oil was dry but who knows. Prices ranged from $20-$85 depending on size which is not bad considering some of the short cuts i suppose.
The wood was myrtle and redwood that he used.

The interesting thing i saw was some hand carved bowls and were not done on the lathe at all but were unique and simply finished with some type of oil and left alone......the finish was like a satin. He told me about the tool he used which was the King Arthur Line of tools. I decided to look it up online and found the website at
www.katools.com
There are some videos on U-tube about it also and i thought if anyone was interested they could take a look................its a really nice tool for what it does................Dan

thanks Dan
 
Joined
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Riverside Ohio
The interesting thing i saw was some hand carved bowls and were not done on the lathe at all but were unique and simply finished with some type of oil and left alone......the finish was like a satin. He told me about the tool he used which was the King Arthur Line of tools. I decided to look it up online and found the website at
www.katools.com
There are some videos on U-tube about it also and i thought if anyone was interested they could take a look................its a really nice tool for what it does................Dan

thanks Dan

Dan I have one of these tools. I use it on my 4 inch electric grinder (hand).
You have to treat as a chainsaw and be real careful with it. The tool will remove wood very quickly.
 
Joined
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Denver, Colorado
Street Fair Observation

I have been using the KA Lancelot for about 2 years now and the Holey Galahed for about a month. Both are good tools and you can horse out a lot of material, particularly making bowls-also good for roughing out sculpture. It sure beats mallet and gouge, the downside is the noise.

When you meet people who are offering a poorly made product I generally do not make any sort of snide comment unless the guy or gal is really obnoxious. Just hope they improve and notice the next year if they are still around. That one application of oil, usually Watco was a big deal with woodworkers in the 70 and 80's. A lot of good woodworkers used it and the one application, natural look was standard-unfortunately a lot of otherwise good work was degraded.

After saying that I am looking up on the shelf and there is an 8" poplar bowl with one soaking of Deft oil. It looks good.
 
Joined
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His prices sound about right, from your description of the quality. Depending on his market, he might get more with more effort. You don't have your location listed.

I've had the Lancelot tool for several years. You treat it as a chainsaw because it IS a chainsaw, except with twice the number of teeth per inch. They can be sharpened. I think the chains are made by Oregon for King Arthur. With substantial practice, I can get a finish almost as good as a belt sander. For flatwork, I blueprint (any color paint, actually) against a piece of plate glass. I also use it for balancing heavy pieces on the lathe, sometimes with auxiliary rotisserie drive.

Our WT club had a meeting at his shop a few years ago, and I've visited his Australia Day celebration, complete with didgerido construction and concert. Arthur is a transplanted Aussie, and he's also the ringleader of the Norwegian woodturning cruise.
 

john lucas

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I've been using the lacelot for about 6 or 7 years. I like it but I have been using the small Arbortec lately and I think it is easier to use. It's also carbide so it holds an edge for a long time.
One trick I found with the lancelot. I rotate the guard into a position so that it can be used like a bevel. I touch the guard to the wood and I can then lower the tool into the work and it can't pull itself in.
 
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John's trick is an excellent idea; use the guard as a tool rest for better control.

I got tired of switching the Lancelot cutter for metal-cutting disks, so I got another RA grinder from Harbor Freight for metal cutting. But the new one has a simple on-off switch, not dead-man. For the Lancelot, I prefer a simple trigger, so it can coast to a stop when/if necessary. I'd also suggest getting a RA grinder with easily repairable power cord - BTDT. Most electric chainsaws have a short power cord for self-protection.

If you do a forum search for "lancelot" you'll get more insight.
 

john lucas

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Joe it's funny you said that. My power cord has a patch. In fact the power cord on my circular saw has a patch also.
My good friend Brad Sells who carves all of his pieces switched to using 24 grit sandpaper on the angle grinder. He said it removes wood just about as fast and is a lot safer if it gets away from you. Here's brads website. You will be impressed.
http://www.bradsells.com/
 
Joined
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Denver, Colorado
Street Fair Observation

1. Dan, there is a carbide cutter that will fit the 4 1\2 grinders. Not sure if it is from KA or Arbortech. It costs about $150. The one I saw had 3 teeth and was resharpenable.

2. KA also has a kit for about $220 . It consists of a Proxxon 2" right angle grinder, 2'' chain saw, carbide abrading discs and various sanding discs. Not nearly as powerful as a 4 1/2 grinder but it is also useful for decorating bowls and smaller carving. It would probably work OK for carving out spoons.

If you buy a rt angle grinder look for lightness, they get heavy carving for very long. I have gone to a combination of cheap cost and light weight, not an easy combination to balance when buying.
 
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
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Milwaukee, WI
Dan

What you stated in your message is the sole reason why I never joined the local woodturning club until I had my business up and running.

I am a profeshional woodturner. Think about the guy in the booth. Say he has 2 hours tied up into a weed pot, because that is what you described. He charges 50 dollars for the said pot. It would not be worth it for him if he hollowed it out to make it lighter. What I have learned is that people don't know how light something should be. If he did hollow it out he would have to charge more, and then he wouldn't be able to sell enough to make any money.

What I say to everyone who critiques my pieces is "what do you do for a living"

It is easy to judge someones elses work, when you do it for fun, one day a week. Being a business, you have to find out what the market will bear, then figure out how you can complete the project to make enough money to pay your rent, phone, electric, overhead, beer, and dog food.

There is a local turner by me who is a great turner, actually does better work than me. He has been turning for ten years and is trying to become a pro, but still has a fulltime job. He is attempting to sell everything at gallaries and hit the homerun as an ARTIST. His wall thickness are down to 1/16 of an inch in some of his work. Then there is me, I started turning a year ago. figured out the market, and I can't keep up with the volume of sales I get per week. I hollow out my vessels to a quarter of an inch thick. Not once did any person that bought or even felt the items say that it was heavy. In my mind it is, but it is what the market will allow me to do. Only a woodturner would know the difference.

What I have described is neither right or wrong, It just depends on what you want to do. So my guess the guy is selling weedpots and probably making 25 dollars an hour. Would you invest any more time if you aren't going to get paid for it?
 
Joined
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My 2 cents worth

You know I agree. I love to turn, but it's not my full time job. I play with computers and the web all day and when I get home, I don't really want to work on another PC. Sorry mom! I did a demo at the woodturning show a couple of weekends ago. I just put together a new tool and thought, wow I can play and see if this thing is any good and no one will care as long as I'm making shavings. I found out a few things...you have 4 types of folks watching you. First - Have no idea what your doing and don't care. Second - Have no idea what your doing and think it is interesting. Third - Have some idea what your doing and have questions. (These folks are my favorite) Forth - The expert who will tell you what your doing wrong. The tool was a "Easy Rougher" The expert informed me I was scraping the inside and outside of the natural edge bowl. My response (cleaned up) Yea so...do you think the customer really cares how I get there or just that the bowl is pretty? I still look at other peoples work with a critical eye, but am careful with my comments. Well sometimes... :D
 
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There is a difference

It is a good thing that there aren't many critical people. You can always find what you don't like about something. It is usually easier to find what you don;t like than to look for the good.

I used to think the same thing about the weedpots, they are so heavy...but in reality there is about 1 percent of people that would know the difference.
 
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I used to think the same thing about the weedpots, they are so heavy...but in reality there is about 1 percent of people that would know the difference.

Prior to this thread I had only seen sculptured lumps with borings referred to as weed pots. Since they are purpose-built to hold dry accents, I'm not sure it would matter an iota if they were fully hollowed. Has the terminology changed? Am I behind times again?

Thin is for turners, as I see it. Customers don't care. Can't tell you how often I answer the "why is it so thin" question when selling. I tell them that it's a turning tour-de-force as I wrap the heavy thing they bought. When someone asks how thick it is, I know they're a turner.
 
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Utterson.Ontario.Canada
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Lancelot

Be very careful when using the Lancelot. About 15 years ago, I, foolishly, thought that I could get deeper into a burl vessel if I removed the angle grinder guard altogether. The only thing which I got deeper into was a finger on my left hand of which I removed an inch. It was during the healing process that I found woodturning to be much safer and a lot less painful.
Now if I wish to do any rim carving, I use Arbortec's mini grinder with the guard in place.

Don Thur
www.knotsburls.com
 

Bill Grumbine

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I am a profeshional woodturner. Think about the guy in the booth. Say he has 2 hours tied up into a weed pot, because that is what you described. He charges 50 dollars for the said pot. It would not be worth it for him if he hollowed it out to make it lighter. What I have learned is that people don't know how light something should be. If he did hollow it out he would have to charge more, and then he wouldn't be able to sell enough to make any money.

...

It is easy to judge someones elses work, when you do it for fun, one day a week. Being a business, you have to find out what the market will bear, then figure out how you can complete the project to make enough money to pay your rent, phone, electric, overhead, beer, and dog food.

^^^^^^This.

There are two kinds of people in the world - turners, and everyone else. Most of my customers (for finished pieces that is) are not turners. Yeah, I trade pieces from time to time, and sometimes I sell one or two, but most of my customers are people who are not turners themselves, and they have a whole set of criteria that is completely different than what other turners seem to have.

I had a student one time in my shop. I was showing him some of my finished work, and I had two natural edged burl bowls that were virtually identical in size and shape, with the exception being wall thickness. One was about 1/8" thick, and the other was close to 5/8" thick. Both have a very pleasing appearance, were well balanced, blah blah blah. I held the thin one back out of sight and gave him the thick one to examine.

He looked at it for a minute or so, and then said, "That's very nice, but why did you make it so thick?" Can't you make them any thinner?"

"You mean like this one?", as I whipped out the thin walled bowl. :D

"Oh."

"Yeah, I can make them thin, and I do it every now and then for the other turners. But most of the people buying my stuff like the thicker ones, so I make them thick."

The critics who get most of my attention are those who are eager to put money in my mercenary hand. :cool2:
 
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For practical consideration, a bored hole can be better than thin wall:

1. A bored hole in a weed pot allows the weed to stand more or less upright.

2. A bored hole in a vase, with cigar tube, test tube, or paint-ball tube, also allows the flower to stand upright and hold water. That's how I make most of mine.

3. The more solid base is less likely to fall over.

4. Water-filled thin wall would also be stable, but it presents additional problems of waterproof lining.
 
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I Agree and my work is far from perfect. But, I would like to say in response to the comment about the time the turner spent on making the pots/vases etc v. making it a profitable by not spending longer periods of time because it would drive the cost up higher.......is simply this....forgeting the hollowing aspect which can be time consuming - the time spent sanding correctly and finishing would be minimal and would make his work much more attractive.
The difference between a mediocore finish and a fanstastic finish is just a little more time.
The converstion between us was a good one with both of us exchanging alot of information but at no point did i critique his work verbally.
 
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judgement

I only mentally critiqued his work because my stuff if far from perfect but I noticed a few things that I didnt like. The sanding was not that great and I could see the sanding lines if you look close in the light. His idea of a vessel is a poor one because while the outside looks like a nice vessel shape the inside was not hollowed out at all and therefore made the vessel very heavy. He had drilled a hole straight down and called it done. The finish had a few spots of what i would call aligatoring in the finish - like maybe he put it on to soon before the oil was dry but who knows. Prices ranged from $20-$85 depending on size which is not bad considering some of the short cuts i suppose.
The wood was myrtle and redwood that he used.


"When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself."

Wayne Dyer

I give this guy(state fair turner) a lot of credit for putting his work out there for people to see and sell. It takes a lot of balls to not care about what people think about you and what you are selling. It boils down to a point of view. To him, maybe it is a great finish. Maybe it is better than what he had at the last show. A good finish doesn't have to take more time, I takes more experience. How do you get experience. By doing it, by making mistakes. Learning as you go...Like life.

Sorry if this hit a sore spot with me, but this is how our society is in general. Was there anything good about his products? That guy is putting his neck out there because somehow, he is not worried about what people think. good for you state fair turner...who ever you are.
 
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Kevin.......Sorry if this hit a sore spot with me, but this is how our society is in general. Was there anything good about his products? That guy is putting his neck out there because somehow, he is not worried about what people think. good for you state fair turner...who ever you are.

Yes.....we discussed form and function and each had view points .....his forms and wood selection were great and we discussed them in some detail............ but, I may not have expanded enough on our conversation which was informative in both directions. He freely talked about how he carves and turns and i did the same - both swapping out ideas and techniques. I would like to think we both walked away with some helpful information/knowledge.
Further, If the sharing of information leads to helping someone (or both of us) become better in the quality of what were doing then the conversation was both productive and very worhwhile.
Maybe you took my observation wrong and im not trying to start a flame but the exchange of information helped both of us.
 
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There's a point here that I think needs to be brought out - just having his pieces out for all to see, buy or not buy, and critique takes fortitude and guts. Can't even begin to say what it feels like when some ditz comes by and says: "I could get that cheaper at WalMart!" The thing I found out though is how my ego was bruised after the first three or four shows, when I realized that the general public didn't have anywhere near the same opinion of the value of my work as I did. Besides getting me to set more realistic prices, that drove me to improving my technique, form and finish. It also firmly set in my head that it doesn't matter how many hours I spend making something perfect, if I'm going to sell it, it matters most what the person with money in their pocket thinks.

That's why I've become completely happy with having other turners in the same shows as I'm in. Every one of us does things at least a little bit differently or makes different things. It's not like we're competing for the single buyer whose looking for a picture to hang on their living room wall.
 
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