i used Danish Oil for the firwt time on a cherry bowl and a walnut bowl. 3 coats. finish was dull on both bowls at that point. i just bought some butcherblock wax (has carnuba and bees wax) put on 2 generous coats and buffed with a plain buffing wheel. but got no shine/luster at all?
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need buffing help
- Thread starter Jake Truxal
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Did you get a good white surface after the solvent had flashed off, or did it remain dark? If dark, you probably had not allowed enough time for the DO volatiles to evaporate and the resin to cure. It shares common solvent with the wax.
Beeswax doesn't really shine. It's there to soften the carnauba. If You're making heat with a power buff you can use straight carnauba, which makes a high shine.
Beeswax doesn't really shine. It's there to soften the carnauba. If You're making heat with a power buff you can use straight carnauba, which makes a high shine.
no i did not get a white finish, the wax never seeemed to totally dry, so you are probably right, I let the DO "dry" for 2 days before waxing. how long should i have waited/how do you know when the DO has cured? will the DO still dry now that I put the wax on? how will i know when it is cured to try again?
I bought the butcher block wax just cause that is the only thing with carnuba that rockler had in stock when i was there. does pure carnuba come in a paste? Thanks.
I bought the butcher block wax just cause that is the only thing with carnuba that rockler had in stock when i was there. does pure carnuba come in a paste? Thanks.
Steve Worcester
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The butcher block wax is probably very high in bees wax, so you won't get much shine out of it, more of a satin.
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I assume, with all the peril that word carries, that you are speaking of Butcher's (brand) wax. http://www.bwccompany.com/ The furniture formulation will make a nice shine if they haven't changed it in the twenty years since I used it. But I would definitely let the DO cure a week in the warm and dry before I'd use it. More if you've applied multiple coats at short intervals. You may have solvent trapped under the top coat. Butcher's will show haze, but not full auto polish (emulsion) white on the surface after the solvent flashes off, and can be buffed by power - don't press too hard or you'll flow it!
The floor wax was our "go to" for inspectors back when. Buffed up far better than the water emulsion stuff.
The floor wax was our "go to" for inspectors back when. Buffed up far better than the water emulsion stuff.
buffing
If your bowl is not dry, the wax and oils will just soak in and just keep dulling down so you need to make sure your piece is totally dry.
I find that as soon as I sand my piece I coat it will 50-50 mix of gloss varnish and thinner. I repeat that four or five times allowing each coat to dry then sand with 400 grit and finally coat with spray gloss varnish. Let that dry 24 hours and then take it to the buffing wheels and wala--- super shine. I love it, you can see yourself in the finish.
If your bowl is not dry, the wax and oils will just soak in and just keep dulling down so you need to make sure your piece is totally dry.
I find that as soon as I sand my piece I coat it will 50-50 mix of gloss varnish and thinner. I repeat that four or five times allowing each coat to dry then sand with 400 grit and finally coat with spray gloss varnish. Let that dry 24 hours and then take it to the buffing wheels and wala--- super shine. I love it, you can see yourself in the finish.
Hello Jake. All I can say is what I've done and if you like that then give it a try.
I've used Danish oil for many years. I generally apply the oil and allow it to penetrate for about 10 - 15 minutes and re-apply. After the second application I wipe off the excess after about 15 minutes and allow the piece to dry for a day or two.
When dry I buff with tripoli or white diamond or both depending on the wood and follow that with carnauba wax. You won't get a high gloss but a beautiful satin sheen.
If you want a high gloss, build the finish with a product that is high in solids like varnish or use polyurethane and then buff.
Be well.
Ed
I've used Danish oil for many years. I generally apply the oil and allow it to penetrate for about 10 - 15 minutes and re-apply. After the second application I wipe off the excess after about 15 minutes and allow the piece to dry for a day or two.
When dry I buff with tripoli or white diamond or both depending on the wood and follow that with carnauba wax. You won't get a high gloss but a beautiful satin sheen.
If you want a high gloss, build the finish with a product that is high in solids like varnish or use polyurethane and then buff.
Be well.
Ed
For the high gloss finish, would the varnish/poly be used in place of the Danish Oil or over top of?
Jake,
If you like the color of Danish Oil but want more gloss than it normally gives you might try something like Waterlox, a Tung Oil variant. You would get the color of the Danish Oil, with the protection of a shell like finish like a varnish. You can build it up over time to whatever kind of thickness you want, and once it is dry buff it with tripoli and white diamond, then finally buff with carnuba or Renaissance Wax. I prefer to apply it with a paper towell while the piece is slowly spinning on the lathe. I like a lighter coat of it resulting in a soft finish rather than a thick gloss, but it will work either way. If you are buffing using the lathe to hold the wheels you might consider changing your belt so you can use the highest speed range. The buffing results tend to be better at higher speeds. Use a light touch and dont linger in one place. You dont want to heat the wood.
I find that Danish Oil can take time to cure depending on conditions. As everyone has already suggested, you may have an uncured layer in there that is affecting the wax. More curing time might help, as well as making sure the piece is drying someplace reasonably warm and dry (lower humidity than I usually run into in my shop.)
Regarding waxes like Carnuba. You usually want to apply very thin coats, especially if your goal is gloss. The technique I have always been shown is to have a buffing wheel dedicated to wax only. Bring it up to speed (3,000 rpm) and then tap the carnuba bar against it briefly. You dont want to load the wax onto the wheel, just a light touch. Then apply the wax to the piece from the spinning wheel. One application of wax will likely cover your entire piece. You also want to keep the touch of the piece against the wheel light. Dont press, dont linger. Move the piece smoothly against the wheel. A thick application of wax generally is generally muddy looking and may even feel waxy. A good wax application is almost undetectable to your hand.
A wax like Rennaisance is usually applied lightly with a paper towell, then buffed on a dedicated wheel. Same technique though.
By the way....if you are buffing with compounds you want to treat them the same way as the wax. A wheel dedicated to one grit...a brief application of the compound bar to the spinning wheel, and then a light touch as you buff your piece. Tripoli first, then white diamond, then finally your wax.
One last thought. You mention making bowls, but dont say what they will be used for? Other than just making a piece look the way you want it to, you might want to use finishes like Danish Oil and Walnut Oil for utility pieces that will be in contact with foods and save the shell finishes like varnish and Poly's for display pieces. The reason being that the shell finishes will develop small cracks over time, trapping food. Over time that will discolor those areas as well as creating a potential bacterial problem with your foods. Correcting it involves stripping the finish...something the pieces owner is not likely to do. An oil finish can be easily renewed by the user, even using something as simple as mineral oil (unscented of course). So as a utility piece dries out from repeated use and washing the owner can easily treat it to keep it looking sweet.
Hope that helps some.
Dave
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Hi Jake I have had good success using Mothers Car Wax they have one that is pure Carnuba in a paste.I apply it like a friction polish at high speed on the lathe I get a nice glossy finish but it goes away quickly if the piece is handled allot.I now use the Beal system and its a much more durable finish and worth the investment.A few words of caution paper towels or safety rags should be used not Teeshirt or dust rags in case it catches your chuck or the piece.And never use the white diamond on walnut it gets in the open grain and the only way to fix it is to sand it down and start over.And if you do go for the Beal system don't get the 3 on 1 the wheels are too close together for larger pieces.
Jake...A little more info on waxes for you.
Carnuba is a good wax, and cheap. A bar of Carnuba will last you a looooong time. Remember, like the buffing compounds; Tripoli and White Diamond, it is applied to a dedicated buffing wheel very lightly. A brief tap of the bar to the wheel will do it for a whole piece. Or more if it is a small piece.
Carnuba holds up well and does not show water spots, but it does not hold up well to the oils in hands so for an object that is handled a lot it is not a good wax.
Rennaisance Wax is prefered in Galleries because it does hold up excellently to being handled. But, it water spots easily. Galleries are usually not too worried about water hitting their collection so that is not a problem though. Renaissance will be applied very thinly with a paper towel and then buffed on a wheel dedicated to it.
The Beale buffing system mentioned in the previous post is great. You will get 3 wheels with it and a mounting post so you can put it on your lathe. So you can dedicate a wheel to tripoli, one to white diamond, and one to wax. I keep a 4rth wheel so I can have one specifically for carnuba, and one specifically for renaissance. It is probably worth getting a set of balls from Beale as well so you can do the inside of bowls more easily. And, probably an extension for the mounting post so you dont have to work so closely to the headstock.
And lastly, make sure you grip your piece firmly before you touch the wheels. When I first started buffing I sent some nice pieces winging into the wall because I was not holding them well. Nothing like a 3,000 RPM buffing wheel for embedding wood turnings in sheetrock. It is quite artistic looking and makes a bold visual statement.
Happy New Year!
Dave
Carnuba is a good wax, and cheap. A bar of Carnuba will last you a looooong time. Remember, like the buffing compounds; Tripoli and White Diamond, it is applied to a dedicated buffing wheel very lightly. A brief tap of the bar to the wheel will do it for a whole piece. Or more if it is a small piece.
Carnuba holds up well and does not show water spots, but it does not hold up well to the oils in hands so for an object that is handled a lot it is not a good wax.
Rennaisance Wax is prefered in Galleries because it does hold up excellently to being handled. But, it water spots easily. Galleries are usually not too worried about water hitting their collection so that is not a problem though. Renaissance will be applied very thinly with a paper towel and then buffed on a wheel dedicated to it.
The Beale buffing system mentioned in the previous post is great. You will get 3 wheels with it and a mounting post so you can put it on your lathe. So you can dedicate a wheel to tripoli, one to white diamond, and one to wax. I keep a 4rth wheel so I can have one specifically for carnuba, and one specifically for renaissance. It is probably worth getting a set of balls from Beale as well so you can do the inside of bowls more easily. And, probably an extension for the mounting post so you dont have to work so closely to the headstock.
And lastly, make sure you grip your piece firmly before you touch the wheels. When I first started buffing I sent some nice pieces winging into the wall because I was not holding them well. Nothing like a 3,000 RPM buffing wheel for embedding wood turnings in sheetrock. It is quite artistic looking and makes a bold visual statement.
Happy New Year!
Dave
Jake, you didn't say, but what grit are you sanding to? Cherry will sand to a very fine finish on it's own. I just finished a cherry hollow form sanded to 1200 and finished with two apps of Original Waterlox (wiped dry and allowed to cure for a couple of days between coats, each coat lightly rubbed out with 6/0 steel wool cloth). The piece was then buffed with the Beale system. It's almost too glossy...I am thinking of knocking it back a bit.