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Cabinet scrapers as turning tools

john lucas

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I find these very useful and don't see mention of it often. I had been using them for years on flat work. I first saw them used on turnings during a Clay Foster demo way to many years ago. I don't want to embarass Clay or myself. Clay was using it on green turnings with the lathe at very slow speeds, to clean up the tool marks on the outside.
I use them for several other things. One is to repair areas of the wood that want to tear out no matter what you do. If it's on the outside of the piece I use a flat scraper. For the inside I use curved scrapers. Every once in a while you get a piece of wood that has one area that wants to tear out or fuzz up and no amount of hardening, sharpening tools, cutting with wax or water or what ever will work. Just stop the lathe and work on that area with a card scraper.
Sometimes on really punky wood you use some sort of hardener, be it thinned epoxy, CA glue, Thinned lacquer, whatever. If your lucky these areas will cut clean and your done. Sometimes you just need to sand but the repaired areas are harder and if you sand too much you get a lumpy area. With the card scraper you can take down this hard area without affecting the soft areas around it. I do this all the time when repairing holes with epoxy or Inlace. I will level the surface with a card scraper before sanding it smooth.
If you have a small tearout area you can use the card scraper to cut down below the tearout. Then blend this divot into the rest of the area so you can't see it. If done properly you can't feel the divot either.
Do you have trouble cleaning up inside the foot on a bowl. If you have a vacuum chuck or other good way to hold the bowl you can just turn it. When I do demos at public venues I don't carry all that stuff so I turn the bottom with my tailstock in place and then carve away the little stub tenon. To smooth the rest out I use a small piece of card scraper that I cut off a larger care. It is about 1" wide by 2 1/2" long. I sharpen the narrow side and use that to clean up the last little bit of the bottom.
When I was inexperience and doing segmented hollow vessels I would do 2 bowl shapes and then glue them together to form the hollow vessel. (no way was I skilled enough to hollow and I could also leave the hole in the top impossibly small). I didn't trust my skills to turn away the glue joint and sanding often left the wood lumpy. I would use the card scraper to level the surface and then I could start sanding with 220 and avoid the lumps.
There's probably more but that's all I can think of on the spur of the moment. Card Scrapers are cheap and you can even make them out of old hand saw blades if you want. In a pinch for small areas I've used the tip of a chisel. They cut clean but it does dull your chisel fairly quickly.
 
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John thanks for the info. I have thought about using those for a while but just haven't bought any. I have seen a couple of video's on sharpening and burnishing. John how do you go about sharpening and burnishing one? I have seen them used and gives a really good looking mirror finish.
 

john lucas

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Lay it flat on an oil stone and polish off any old burr. I use a file and some use a stone to flatten the top edge. It should be square to the sides. I made a simple wooden jig to hold the file perpendicular to the wood by cutting a groove in the wood and push the file into it. Now I just put the wood against the scraper and file the top. that should keep it square.
Then you need a burnishing tool. Before I bought mine I simply used the shank of a 3/8" drill bit. Push down on the top of the steel with the burnisher and push it across several times. This raises a burr. Now you have to get the burr to the correct angle for cutting. tilt the burnisher about 5 degrees and rub across the top again. This will form a burr on one side. Do the same but tilt 5 degrees to the other side to raise a burr on the other side. That usually does it.
 
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One way that I frequently use this type of tool is to remove sanding sealer. On many of my segmented pieces with varying openness of grain, I apply multiple coats of sanding sealer, scraping off each coat before applying the next coat. I do this multiple times before doing any sanding. Sometimes a couple of applications are enough; other times, I might do this 4 or 5 times. The goal being to fill the wood pores prior to any sanding, thus keeping any dark dust from getting trapped in the light colored wood. After doing this several times, the surface also is improved, allowing for initial sanding to start with 220-grit. Several cautions... Be very careful on the inside of any turning - you wouldn't want to catch the other side of the scraper :mad: Also, if using a handheld scraper, be aware that it will remove side-grain faster than end-grain. Aggressive handheld scraping will likely create an un-round shape. :rolleyes:
 
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Thanks John and Malcolm. I appreciate the info. I had did some research before and watched several videos. Now I just need to get some and try it.
 
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picture

could someone post picture of Cabinet scrapers and card scrapers, i find this a good thread but would like to see example of exactly what we are referring to :eek:
 
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Some scrapers are illustrated at http://www.grizzlyindustrial.com/products/searchresults.aspx?q=scrapers

I think John is referring to something like the H5568 set, or DIY's of particular shapes. I've employed utility knife blades, handheld, on flat work. Usually, only the tips get worn down in normal cutting, and the interior is still usable for scraping; I often have enough surplus blades, and haven't tried sharpening them. In contrast to sanding, scraping doesn't dig into the softer parts of the grain - baby-butt smooth.

For turned work, I hope we're discussing lathe speeds near zero. Scraping works best along the grain.
 
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Cabinet scrapers are fine for use with the grain and with the lathe off. They can cut your hands (or leather gloves!) quickly even when being used without a holder on flat work. I'm tempted to take mine back through the sharpening process if I don't have at least one red badge before use.

I let gouge work take care of the problems others address with cabinet scrapers. When I was brand new to "bowl" gouges I used them quite a bit. Then it dawned on me that I had never had such problems with forged gouges, so I started making the finishing passes with them again.

Tenon folks - for what it's worth, a nice curved knife and this spoon scraper will remove the nubs very nicely. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32641&cat=1,310,41069
 

john lucas

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I guess I must be more careful, I seldom draw blood. :) I sharpen all 4 sides of a square scraper before I use it so that I have 8 sharp surfaces to work with. I have started using a flat magnetic business card on the back side of the scraper to protect from the heat. This is only a problem when I'm doing large flat areas. I never have a problem with turning because I am usually only working with a small area.
By the way a 1" putty knife makes a good scraper. You can buy them really cheap and shape the end any way you want. I like the thicker ones but the thin ones work well if you need to make a custom round scraper for cleaning up unusual shapes.
 
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Joe,
I sharpen utility knife blades with a fine diamond hone. Eventually the tips get too rounded for some jobs, but they will take many sharpenings.

Do cabinet scrapers work well going cross grain? Note that segmenters scraping with lathe turning slowly are scraping with the grain.
 
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A few years ago when I heard of using cabinet scrapers on turnings I thought the person was nuts. I had the opportunity to try it one day and have been using them on my turnings ever since. It is important to keep a good burr on them and not to use much pressure. Allow the tool to do the work. If you are worried about getting cut by the scraper they do make handles for them. I think the last place I saw the handles advertised was in the Garrett Wade cataloge http://www.garrettwade.com/Default.asp?splid=SPLID01&bhcd2=1254062623

Greg
 
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I let gouge work take care of the problems others address with cabinet scrapers. When I was brand new to "bowl" gouges I used them quite a bit. Then it dawned on me that I had never had such problems with forged gouges, so I started making the finishing passes with them again.
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Michael, I agree that a sharp gouge in experienced hands is the way to go. Just to be clear, my use of the card-style handheld scraper is not so much to shape or remove tear-out; it's to remove sanding sealer on the surface. I could sand off the sealer, but that results in a big waste of sandpaper. For me, the card scraper more or less replaces 180-grit sandpaper.
 
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Well, I found the gooseneck a better choice inside, the superthin flexible best outside. Since I use a mortise to turn, I just chuck up a lousy finish and take the stuff off with the gouge rather than clog paper.

It's a questionable practice with the lathe running, because just a bit of twist means a hack and a half. With the piece stationary its easier to maintain the proper scraping angle and run the grain properly. Masking tape over the thumb and first two fingers, like the carvers use, is a good way to protect them from a nice sharp edge and heat. The Veritas dial-a-burnish tool is a wonderful way to set from glue (or finish) scraping aggressive to translucent shaving capable burrs.
 

john lucas

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I always use them with the lathe off. I scrape from different directions so that I can blend more easily level a surface, such as when leveling an epoxy repair or when filling carved areas with Inlace.
As the other 2 said I always work with the gouge first, using keener edges that are freshly sharpened and any other techniques for getting rid of bad areas. However if that fails or if I've had to repair an area on a bowl that has warped and can't be put back on the lathe then I grab the scrapers followed by sandpaper.
 
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I tried the card scrapers and didn't really like them. I do use them on my flat work. For one thing, you need fairly slow speeds for them to be effective, slow, or with the lathe turned off. For another thing, I haven't found anything that I couldn't turn out as well as I could with a standard scraper, at a 45 degree angle, and a fresh burr from the grinder. A burnished burr doesn't seem to work as well for me as the one from my grinder. I do use a finer grit wheel, and press into the wheel for a better burr.

robo hippy
 

john lucas

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If the wood is spinning I also prefer turning tools. I find the scraper handy when you have to work with the lathe off.
 
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