Roughing gouge run-back

[Jay Coulson]

I am having trouble with run-back on ONE stupid piece of dry rosewood. I am making wine glass stems. I have made them out of cherry, canary and mahogany with no problems. All pieces start with a 3" spindle as, the base is finished to 2 3/4 to 3". After roughing to round, I have been using a 3/4" deep roughing gouge to taper from the base to about 3/4". The balance of the finishing is done with spindle gouges down to about 1/2" where the narrow end mates with the glass wine globe. All of the other woods above have gone well. I'm keeping the cut in the lower 1/3 of the gouge as, I know that using too much of the gouge will cause me to run back...a little and, only sometimes. But, I have tried twice to rough taper this piece of dry rosewood down and both times, turning at 1500-1900, I have had the roughing gouge run back horribly and,completely ruin the piece. It feels lame to blame the wood but, I have noticed that this stuff appears a bit pourous after roughing to round. At least for rosewood, it looks a little pourous to me. Anyway, I figured that if I could do well with the very hard canary, the rosewood would be no problem.
Looking for some technique help, criticism or ideas as to what is going on.
Thanks,
Jay

 

[C Edward Moore]

Presenting the tool

Jay,

It sounds as if you are presenting the tool with it perpendicular to the lathe axis. Try moving the tool handle to the left so that the bevel of the tool is not quite parallel to the axis and making cuts to the right. If the tool doesn't cut then you have overcompensated, so move the handle back a little towards perpendicular and try again.

 

[MichaelMouse]

You ARE staying above centerline on your cuts, right? Could be one reason. Lower third of the tool means nothing, since you can't cut anywhere but between the points where the curve enters the wood and exits it. Beauty of a gouge.

Other is the reason people get the same thing with skews, you're getting the upper part of the tool ahead of the start of the cut. I think this is what Ed is trying to say. Anyway, drop the handle of the gouge below horizontal and it'll set up right.

Example in a still http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Rough-Sweep.jpg

Example in a video http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n28/MichaelMouse/?action=view&current=PeelandPare.flv With the piece already circular, your shavings should roll like the ones in the final few seconds.

Something else just strikes me. You aren't trying to push the tool into the wood directly, are you? You want that bevel on a tool ground straight across. So swing in to start the cut with your off hand anchoring the tool to the rest, not under it as you see in the video for demo purposes.

 

[john lucas]

My guess is you are coming off the bevel just like if you did it with a skew. Personally I would use a spindle gouge to do this. The rosewood is harder than the other woods and you have to take smaller bites. It could be your just forcing the cut which makes it harder to control. Then it's easier to push the handle too far and come off the bevel.

 

[Jay Coulson]

My run-back trouble

Thanks Ed. I am out of town at the moment so, I can't go into the shop to experiment. I sort of came to the same conclusion last nite, laying in a hotel room. I was thinking about my skew practice--I usually do 2 or 3 spindles every morning before work. Just use 2x4 stock ripped to square, round it off and then do my beads, grooves, planing etc. It's helped me alot with confidence using the various size skews. All about the bevel...that's what I think is the problem also. I think that as I am forming the left end (fattest end) of the taper, I am presenting the cutting edge perpendicular to the wood without regard for the bevel. I know that won't work with the skews...no matter what size. So, I should be home tonite and, will make another go at tapering with the 3/4 deep gouge on th pine (very forgiving) and, then go back to the rosewood. I knew it wasn't the wood!
I was so frustrated, I was ready to buy a couple of "German spindle gouges from Packard ( 3/4 up to 1 1/2" shallow) to relieve the anxiety.
Thanks again,
J

Jay,

It sounds as if you are presenting the tool with it perpendicular to the lathe axis. Try moving the tool handle to the left so that the bevel of the tool is not quite parallel to the axis and making cuts to the right. If the tool doesn't cut then you have overcompensated, so move the handle back a little towards perpendicular and try again.

 

[Jay Coulson]

my run back

Thanks Michael.
Yep, I believe you guys are correct. I am not giving the bevel of the gouge it's do by, probably presenting the cutting edge to the wood with disregard for the bevel. Thanks for the links also. One would think that after a zillion run-backs with the skew, that I would have figured it out. Skew work is improving dramatically because I am concious of the bevel.
Now here's a question Michael. I have to make a bunch of these glass stems and, would like to spped up the roughing process. What about peeling down in steps with a skew, then going to the 3/4 deep gouge to "refine the rough out"? Then finish with my spindle gouges. Anything that you can think of in terms of presenting the roughing gouge to the steps from the skew that might present problems?
Thanks again. You guys are really helpful and gracious with your feedback.
J

You ARE staying above centerline on your cuts, right? Could be one reason. Lower third of the tool means nothing, since you can't cut anywhere but between the points where the curve enters the wood and exits it. Beauty of a gouge.

Other is the reason people get the same thing with skews, you're getting the upper part of the tool ahead of the start of the cut. I think this is what Ed is trying to say. Anyway, drop the handle of the gouge below horizontal and it'll set up right.

Example in a still http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Rough-Sweep.jpg

Example in a video http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n28/MichaelMouse/?action=view&current=PeelandPare.flv With the piece already circular, your shavings should roll like the ones in the final few seconds.

Something else just strikes me. You aren't trying to push the tool into the wood directly, are you? You want that bevel on a tool ground straight across. So swing in to start the cut with your off hand anchoring the tool to the rest, not under it as you see in the video for demo purposes.

 

[Jay Coulson]

run back-thanks

Thanks John. Will try it when I get home to the lathe. No pushing into the wood going on with me. I'm letting the wood come to the tool. BUT, if I am presenting the cutting edge first, there's my trouble. You know, it might be that the simple transition from rounding out the spindle..not needing to be to pre-occupied with the bevel and then, going to the taper down which we know requires attention to the bevel may well be the source of my trouble.
Just a thought.

Tks again,
J

My guess is you are coming off the bevel just like if you did it with a skew. Personally I would use a spindle gouge to do this. The rosewood is harder than the other woods and you have to take smaller bites. It could be your just forcing the cut which makes it harder to control. Then it's easier to push the handle too far and come off the bevel.

 

[john lucas]

Jay for faster roughing use anytool so the edge is parallel to the wood or 90 degrees to the direction the wood is traveling. Think about how a flat scraper would cut or a parting tool. I use the bottom of the rough out gouge and just push in, with the bevel rubbing of course. You can take a pretty big fast cut. If you tilt the tool a little it's a little slower cut but it cuts cleaner.
If I have the flute pointing toward the tailstock a little I will push the tool in and it want's to go to toward the tailstock (because the bevel is pointed that way). Then move toward the headstock and take another bite. Repeat as much as needed and then move back to the tailstock side and start over making the cuts deeper. You can remove a lot of wood very quickly this way and since it's slicing it won't tear off corners so you can cut very close to a square base or shoulder if needed.

 

[MichaelMouse]

I wouldn't use a skew, because I only use one for planing. But I do have forged gouges with constant angle bevels that work as slick as the rougher with less fear.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Three-Noses.jpg

This is turning at 90 degrees to the spindle orientation, but, of course, it's the same cut across and out that a spindle orientation presents. Since the nose of the gouge is curved across as well as dished, it is almost impossible to get a "catch" with it.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Peeling-Outside.jpg

I'm not real sure what John is suggesting, but though a pommel cut or parting push type presentation is possible, it would not be my choice, because the wood will squirm more when presented with a broader edge than with a skewed cut, where a little bit at a time is taken, not a whole bite.

 

[john lucas]

Unfortunately I'm video challenged or I would show the cut. I can probably do a still photo that might help get the point across. I have a video camera but the software to use it sucks so bad I don't use it. I believe it's called Pinnacle. The book they give you with it is useless and trying to figure out how to use it on my own doesn't work very well.

 

[Richard Baker]

Guess I'm the only one that thinks "run back" is the left button on the DVR remote. But then I am kind of isolated back here in the hills. Anyone care to explain. If it is bad, I have probably done it.

 

[odie]

Guess I'm the only one that thinks "run back" is the left button on the DVR remote. But then I am kind of isolated back here in the hills. Anyone care to explain. If it is bad, I have probably done it.

Texian......

I assume Jay means the "run back" is a catch with the gouge skittering across the wood in the opposite direction of the intended cut......that's just my best guess.

The cause of that catch is up for speculation, but he's got some good suggestions and advice in response to his enquiry.......

ooc

 

[Richard Baker]

Thanks Odie. That's kinda what I though he meant, but have never seen that term applied to it. Not exactly a catch in the lathe stalling, belt squealing, tool rest breaking sense. More of a "grabby", reverse spiral cut kind of thing? I can do that. Easy to do and easy to avoid, but I did not follow the various explanations very well. Must read them again tomorrow.

 

[Jay Coulson]

th 'ole run-back

I'm back home and, gettin ready to try out the basic concept of the bevel presentation to rough out my taper. The taper is the issue here..I think. Starting with a 3x3 square..about 4" or a freckle more long, I'm am tapering from the 3"--headstock end and, need (would like to) rough down to about 3/4" over the length of 4". So, a tool presented perpindicular to the axis will work fine for the "last" 2 1/2" or thereabouts--the end toward the tailstock. The first 1 1/2" on the headstock end needs a medium to aggessivea taper down to this 3/4". So, for that section of the piece, because if the curve (or taper), it's pretty much impossible to present the tool perpindicular to the piece in that area because, on the left (headstock) side of the piece, the gouge will naturally want to present more cutting edge to the wood on the left side which, of course is much thicker. I have a dvd of Clewes making a candlestick ( I think) out of bunbinga and, he gets a small run-back (catch) doing exactly what I am trying to do. He credits the error with presenting too much of the cutting edge of the tool to the wood but, I never watched him closely in regards to the bevel. Of course, I will yank out the video and, give it another look.

I still might try peeling the rough profile in steps with a 3/4" skew and then, figure out the best way to plane the steps down from left to right...perhaps also with the skew. I can cut gentle coves with the skew, as long as it's one of my curved skews so, maybe I can go downhill ( left to right) with that and, remove the "steps" that I created when I peeled down.
I still don't understand why I was able to accomplish the whole process with the deep roughing gouge on the canary wood which, I find to be very "chippy" at times and, the stuff is generally tough stuff. Ever try to back-hollow canary wood while you're making a box? Don't...it's no fun.
Maybe I just had a brain %art when I was working the rosewood and, ignored the bevel.
Appreciate everyones' input.
Tks again,
J

Jay for faster roughing use anytool so the edge is parallel to the wood or 90 degrees to the direction the wood is traveling. Think about how a flat scraper would cut or a parting tool. I use the bottom of the rough out gouge and just push in, with the bevel rubbing of course. You can take a pretty big fast cut. If you tilt the tool a little it's a little slower cut but it cuts cleaner.
If I have the flute pointing toward the tailstock a little I will push the tool in and it want's to go to toward the tailstock (because the bevel is pointed that way). Then move toward the headstock and take another bite. Repeat as much as needed and then move back to the tailstock side and start over making the cuts deeper. You can remove a lot of wood very quickly this way and since it's slicing it won't tear off corners so you can cut very close to a square base or shoulder if needed.

 

[Jay Coulson]

my run back

Tex...yeah, I guess that you could call it a catch. It's most like a skate with a skew. Only difference is, with a sharp 3/4" deep roughing gouge and, the wood spinning at 1900, the gouge will walk all the way back to the left (up the hill of my taper) until it runs out of wood to chew on and, is back to the 4-jaw that's holding the piece. It happens in a micro-second and, trashes the rounded piece that I'm trying to taper. And, yeah...it's bad...hope you haven't done it or, that it doesn't happen to you again.
J

Guess I'm the only one that thinks "run back" is the left button on the DVR remote. But then I am kind of isolated back here in the hills. Anyone care to explain. If it is bad, I have probably done it.

 

[john lucas]

Jay Have you thought about using the toe of the skew. I find this to be much more controllable on that kind of cut than the using the heel. My choice would still be a detail gouge but I've used the skew when I already had it in my hand to clean up the outside of the goblet.
I didn't have time last night to do any photos to show the rough out gouge technique I discussed. This is mostly a rough out technique but I often use the rough out gouge as a skew by using the wings as a skew. I grind them so they have a straight section and then I use the lower 1/3 of that section just like you would use a skew. Since the U part is down in this cut you can cheat a little and rotate the tool onto the U part to finish a cut that goes into a rounded area.

 

[Joe Greiner]

Guess I'm the only one that thinks "run back" is the left button on the DVR remote. But then I am kind of isolated back here in the hills. Anyone care to explain. If it is bad, I have probably done it.

Thanks for asking my "stupid" question in a much better way.

For steep cuts like this, I've had some success with the skew toe down, as John suggests. Also, on occasion, with a hand chisel with a bevel of about 25 degrees, for steeper yet.

An Oland tool, normally used for deep boring, can also be used for rough shaping. It's almost catch-proof because it takes small bites, but it provides a stopping cut for more ambitious use of the roughing gouge, cutting back and forth along the waste region.

 

[Joe Gorman]

I use the roughing gouge to go from square to round and then switch tools.

I am skew challenged.. I keep trying to use it and am learning in baby steps.

For tapering, I would use a detail gouge, you can get up close to the chuck with the tip... you could even switch too a scraper when you get far enough away fro the chuck. know a lot of peopled just groaned because I saaid scraper... but they do work.

 

[Mark Warden]

What angle are you grinding the gouge at. I had this problem when I was trying to put a longer bevel on my gouge thinking I could make it sharper.Didn't work

 

[MichaelMouse]

What angle are you grinding the gouge at. I had this problem when I was trying to put a longer bevel on my gouge thinking I could make it sharper.Didn't work

Slimmer wedges dive deeper. Great truth in all woodworking. Longer bevels are slimmer wedges, and don't push the waste out of the way as much as steeper wedges or sharpness angles. Of course, we can fool the wood a bit by skewing the edge to the direction of travel, but even that has its perils. I keep my 1/2 beading tool equipped with a 2.5:1 bevel, and it planes beautifully and gets into small places well. Easy to bury it if I'm not careful, though.

 

[john lucas]

I know rough out gouges come with all sorts of grinds. My first one was ground at about 75 degrees included angle. I grind it to about 45 because I use it as a shaping tool after the roughing part. I think the production turners probably grind it more blunt and just rough with it and then switch to a spindle gouge to do all the other work. On my mirror handles I go from rough straight to the skew because I can use the rough out gouge to do almost the whole shape. Sharp angle grinds can be a little more difficult especially when rounding over the bottom bowl shape of a goblet or rounding over a ball. It's really easy to move the handle just a little too far and come off the bevel. that's when you get runback.

 

[hockenbery]

If it is just one piece of wood maybe it is the grain of the wood.

Like all the suggestions you need to cut the long fibers and not let the tool wedge under them. when you lose the bevel the tool may run instead of cut.

if your wood is not straight grained ( ie cut from a crotch section, near the root, twisty limb, big knot) you may be hitting a spot of endgrain where the grain twists. The end grain is harder and may cause you to get tearout or lose control of the tool. The good cut across the grain is suddenly running straight into the end grain the tool gets pulled into the endgrain a bit then bounces out and you lose the bevel.

If your proven repeatable technique doesn't work on a particular piece of wood you need to use a different technique.
try lighter cuts, try different lathe speeds both slower and faster.
try a bowl gouge. try scrapping.

happy turning,
Al

 

[Jay Coulson]

Roughing gouge bevel angle

Mark,
I'm not sure what the exact angle of the 3/4" deep gouge is. I know that it's a bit shallower than when I bot it. It's a Taylor Kryo and, about 2 weeks ago, it was getting pretty dull so, I sharpened it. Didn't really line up the existing bevel too well and, ended up taking longer to sharpen it because I was making the bevel shallower and, grinding off a bit more steel at the heel. I'm getting used to the slightly different angle and, it really is of no consequence because I use it mostly for turning hardwood stuff to round. I ended up buying a couple of more gouges (we can never have enuf turning tools, can we?). Bot my first Thompson spindle gouge in 5/8" which, is the largest he sells. Put a Hosaluk handle on it so, that entire tool ended up being pretty pricey BUT, it is probably the best tool that I own. Workmanship of the gouge is flalwess and, the handle(12" Aluminum) looks cool, fits well in my hand and, is perfectly balanced. It worked very well for the taper I am doing.
I also bought a 3/4" German spindle gouge from Packard and, for the original purpose of this thread, it works like a dream. Takes alot of wood off while making the taper and, zero run-backs. It's not a "name brand" tool but, it really works. Only problem I can see is perhaps sharpening it as, it will not fit in the Wolverine Vari-Jig so, I've been touching it up by hand...haven't butchered it up yet.
Tks,
J

What angle are you grinding the gouge at. I had this problem when I was trying to put a longer bevel on my gouge thinking I could make it sharper.Didn't work

 

[Jay Coulson]

run back

Refreshing Al...thanks.
I made about 8 of the tapered wine stems yesterday out of straight grained, dry mahogany. Also used a 3/4" German spindle gouge for roughing and, had absolutely no run-back trouble. Maybe that piece of rosewood had some funky grain in one section because, the problem started in the same place every time.
What you're saying makes alot of sense.
Tks,
J

If it is just one piece of wood maybe it is the grain of the wood.

Like all the suggestions you need to cut the long fibers and not let the tool wedge under them. when you lose the bevel the tool may run instead of cut.

if your wood is not straight grained ( ie cut from a crotch section, near the root, twisty limb, big knot) you may be hitting a spot of endgrain where the grain twists. The end grain is harder and may cause you to get tearout or lose control of the tool. The good cut across the grain is suddenly running straight into the end grain the tool gets pulled into the endgrain a bit then bounces out and you lose the bevel.

If your proven repeatable technique doesn't work on a particular piece of wood you need to use a different technique.
try lighter cuts, try different lathe speeds both slower and faster.
try a bowl gouge. try scrapping.

happy turning,
Al

 

[Jay Coulson]

run back

Hi Joe,
I think that I've solved my problem by using a 3/4" shallow German spindle gouge from Packard.
As far as your skew problems, boy did I have them too! I bought Alan Lacers' video about the skew...Sweet side/Dark side and, just watched it a bunch of times. Then, went to Lowes and got about 5---2x4's...select grade or, whatever they call the stuff that has as few knots as possible. Put them on the tablesaw, cut them into 12" lengths and then ripped them into square spindles. The pine is soft and, very forgiving. Then, just throw them on the lathe and practice. I use a stebcenter but, you can use any drive center you wish, depending on your tolerance for dig-in's and skates. If you have the tailstock slipped a little, it will help you avoid the violent kick-backs until you get better and, develop some confidence and, absolute repect and knowledge of the importance of the bevel with the skew. The single biggest improvement for my skew work was getting the tool sharp. It can never be too sharp...never. If it's dull, it behaves ENTIRELY differently than when sharp. Also, I would start with a standard straight grind skew as opposed to the curved ones. Especially for rolling beads, the difference for me was very noticeable because the short edge needs to travel in further and differently than the straight grind.
Know that you didn't ask for all of this advice but, couldn't help telling you of my troubles learning the tool because, it drove me nuts.
Tks for your advice and, good luck with the demon skew.
J

I use the roughing gouge to go from square to round and then switch tools.

I am skew challenged.. I keep trying to use it and am learning in baby steps.

For tapering, I would use a detail gouge, you can get up close to the chuck with the tip... you could even switch too a scraper when you get far enough away fro the chuck. know a lot of peopled just groaned because I saaid scraper... but they do work.

 

[Bill Boehme]

.... about 2 weeks ago, it was getting pretty dull so, I sharpened it....

I am thinking that if it has been two weeks since the spindle roughing gouge was sharpened and you have been turning very hard wood, it is likely that the tool is dull and the consequence would be that you are applying more pressure to cut the wood and increasing the chances of a catch.

.... Didn't really line up the existing bevel too well and, ended up taking longer to sharpen it because I was making the bevel shallower and, grinding off a bit more steel at the heel......

A longer bevel would make the tool have a greater tendency to have a bad dig-in and skate if the bevel lost contact with the wood.

 

[Jay Coulson]

longer bevel on the roughing gouge

Thanks Bill,
I have absolutely no doubt that you are right about the longer bevel contributing to my problem. Funny thing this spinning wood...I "bought" my way out of my problem with the wide, shallow German spindle gouge. I actually had the "yips" about trying to use the deep, reground(poorly sharpened) gouge for roughing the taper again. It wasn't poorly sharpened...it was real sharp, just re-beveled (is that even a word in the Kings English)?
Hell, I was nervous when I started roughing with the new wide spindle gouge. But, fortunately, I got over it...I had to. Had to put some more stuff in one of the stores that has my stuff on consignment and, there were a couple of people asking for wine glasses. I'm sure that the bunch of stems that I made previously from canary dulled the tool and, I was just used to it until the run back. Little doubt that I was un-knowingly pushing too hard due to the dullness. My answer was immediately to sharpen up. But, when I sharpened and lengthened the bevel, I unwittingly created a new problem...now I was plenty sharp with a longer bevel so that, when I dug into the rosewood, the runback was much more violent and, with a nice sharp tool, I really trashed the piece of rosewood.
I still like Als' suggestion that the wood may have had some squirly grain!
Take it easy,
J

I am thinking that if it has been two weeks since the spindle roughing gouge was sharpened and you have been turning very hard wood, it is likely that the tool is dull and the consequence would be that you are applying more pressure to cut the wood and increasing the chances of a catch.



A longer bevel would make the tool have a greater tendency to have a bad dig-in and skate if the bevel lost contact with the wood.

 

[john lucas]

Jay I don't think one sharpening would have lengthened the bevel enough to make a difference. By lengthening the bevel we are actually talking about decreasing the sharpening angle. The bevel length has little do to with this other than a more acute sharpening angle will usually lengthen the bevel. Since I grind the heel of the bevel off on all of my tools the bevel length varies a lot.
What I'm trying to say in way too many words is when you sharpened the tool you probably didn't change the actual cutting angle all that much. I think you just took too big of a bite or possibly rolled the tool too far and got the runback. I could be wrong, it would be the first time of course. No just kidding. Without standing there and watching you it's really hard to say.
Turn about 50 goblets and I'll bet the problem goes away.

 

[Bill Boehme]

BTW, Jay, don't ask me how I came about my knowledge of what happens when using a dull tool. It is something that we all have to go through.

... By lengthening the bevel we are actually talking about decreasing the sharpening angle. The bevel length has little do to with this other than a more acute sharpening angle will usually lengthen the bevel.....

This is a bit off topic, John, but the length of the bevel has everything to do with the bevel angle. Grinding a more acute angle will always (not usually) lengthen the bevel.

 

[Mark Warden]

Maybe I worded the question wrong.I made a crude drawing so hopefully you'll know what I mean.The top picture is more of what I understand the bevel on a roughing gouge should look like.The bottom picture although I had a sharper edge I got alot more catches.I'm not by any means questioning anyones advise just trying to pass on one of my errors to maybe help.

 

[Jay Coulson]

sharpening those forges gouges?

Hi Michael,
I'm curious, how do you sharpen those wider gouges? Is there a jig available somewhere that will hold something 3/4" to 1 1/4 " wide. If you have read any more posts on this thread, you will see that I bought a German 3/4" spindle gouge. I have the vari-jig and, the packard jig for long bevel gouges, which while simple in design, grinds Irish and Ellsworth very well. I made some more of these glass stems last night out of canary wood and, the shallow german 3/4" spindle gouge was getting dull. It won't fit in the vari-grind so, I tried to free-hand grind it and, ended up with a pretty ugly grind...lots of facets. Later, I put it back into the long bevel gouge and, got one nice sharp bevel but, to be able to grind the wings I had to make the bevel slightly longer and shallower than the original grind. Tool got nicely sharp but, the new bevel was a little longer. I would have preferred it to be steeper as when I received the new tool. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Tks,
J

I wouldn't use a skew, because I only use one for planing. But I do have forged gouges with constant angle bevels that work as slick as the rougher with less fear.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Three-Noses.jpg

This is turning at 90 degrees to the spindle orientation, but, of course, it's the same cut across and out that a spindle orientation presents. Since the nose of the gouge is curved across as well as dished, it is almost impossible to get a "catch" with it.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Peeling-Outside.jpg

I'm not real sure what John is suggesting, but though a pommel cut or parting push type presentation is possible, it would not be my choice, because the wood will squirm more when presented with a broader edge than with a skewed cut, where a little bit at a time is taken, not a whole bite.

 

[john lucas]

I sharpen my rough out gouge and some spindle gouges using the V arm of the Oneway system. I like the wings of my rough out gouge to be straight and pretty much U shaped with maybe a very slight backward tilt. It's easy to do in the V arm. I set the distance for the bevel angle I want and then I start with the wings and keep the U pointed in the same direction so the wings stay flat. Then I blend them into the U portion as I rotate the flute up.
for spindle gouges I either rotate them completely while in the V or I will grind the nose and as I get toward the outer portion of the gouge tip I slide the gouge up the grinder to bring the wings or outer edge back a little.

 

[Jay Coulson]

longer bevel

Drawing isn't so crude Mark. I didn't re-grind quite as much as your pic shows but, you have drawn the idea. The bevel of the roughing gouge was definitely longer...as your pic on the bottom. When I need to sharpen again (soon I suspect...been working more canary), I'm going to steepen the bevel. But, then, I am going to end up with 2 bevels or facets...whatever.
Tks Mark,
J

Maybe I worded the question wrong.I made a crude drawing so hopefully you'll know what I mean.The top picture is more of what I understand the bevel on a roughing gouge should look like.The bottom picture although I had a sharper edge I got alot more catches.I'm not by any means questioning anyones advise just trying to pass on one of my errors to maybe help.

 

[Jay Coulson]

sharpening the roughing gouge

I do the same with the V arm. I was thinking more of how to sharpen this new 3/4" shallow German spindle gouge I bought. It really won't roll well, even in the v-arm. I can catch about 2/3 of it but, the swept back edges of the bevel just won't match up with the tip and, about 2/3 either side of the center of the tip. Oh well, I have enuf sharpened to use it ok for now.
J

I sharpen my rough out gouge and some spindle gouges using the V arm of the Oneway system. I like the wings of my rough out gouge to be straight and pretty much U shaped with maybe a very slight backward tilt. It's easy to do in the V arm. I set the distance for the bevel angle I want and then I start with the wings and keep the U pointed in the same direction so the wings stay flat. Then I blend them into the U portion as I rotate the flute up.
for spindle gouges I either rotate them completely while in the V or I will grind the nose and as I get toward the outer portion of the gouge tip I slide the gouge up the grinder to bring the wings or outer edge back a little.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Maybe I worded the question wrong.I made a crude drawing so hopefully you'll know what I mean.The top picture is more of what I understand the bevel on a roughing gouge should look like.The bottom picture although I had a sharper edge I got alot more catches.I'm not by any means questioning anyones advise just trying to pass on one of my errors to maybe help.

Here's mine. Seems typical. Hand ground through thousands of uses on bark, grit and goo. Longer bevels not only slide under more easily, they're also a bit more fragile. Not what you want on a tool that's meant to be bashed in use.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/06-Enter-and-Peel.jpg

 

[MichaelMouse]

Hi Michael,
I'm curious, how do you sharpen those wider gouges? Is there a jig available somewhere that will hold something 3/4" to 1 1/4 " wide. If you have read any more posts on this thread, you will see that I bought a German 3/4" spindle gouge.
J

I sharpen them as if I were working them on the lathe, laying them firmly on the support in front of the wheel, touching the heel, then lifting to meet the edge. One left to right, once right to left, and back to work.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Match-Bevel.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Handle-Right.jpg

I do my narrow ones straight across. Though you'll note that I also make a longer bevel on the finest trimmer.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Bevels.jpg