-
Beware of Counterfeit Woodturning Tools (click here for details) -
Johnathan Silwones is starting a new AAW chapter, Southern Alleghenies Woodturners, in Johnstown, PA. (click here for details) -
Congratulations to Keven Jesequel for "Big Leaf Maple" being selected as Turning of the Week for April 15, 2024 (click here for details) -
Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.
Bleaching wood
- Thread starter squirrel
- Start date
I think the best is to start with a white wood and use a water based finish.
Ed
Ed
First you put an adequate mask, those designed for use with chemical products.
Second: you go outside with a jar and the required product
third: you make a 95% hydrogen peroxide 5% ammonia
fourth: you put it on your wood with a brush, you let it dry and you start again.
Works beautifully but to be handled with care.
Second: you go outside with a jar and the required product
third: you make a 95% hydrogen peroxide 5% ammonia
fourth: you put it on your wood with a brush, you let it dry and you start again.
Works beautifully but to be handled with care.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
Use a 2 part wood bleach. Kleen strip is the brand. It takes several coats to get most woods white. Many woods will not go white. Some woods will only change part of the color. The red doesn't bleach in Box Elder, The dark brown in Wenge doesn't bleach only the light brown. It leaves a cool effect.
I've had the best luck with maple, cherry, and walnut.
I've had the best luck with maple, cherry, and walnut.
Use two-part bleach
I use a two-part bleach. It is available in better hardware stores, some home improvement centers, and from most woodworking stores.
Read and follow the instructions on the box. Don't overlook the instructions printed on the inside of the box.
It may take half a dozen applications to get the wood really white.
Waterborne finishes, spray acrylic finishes (Krylon), and some spray lacquer finishes usually keep the wood the whitest.
It is always a good idea to test on a scrap piece first.
I use a two-part bleach. It is available in better hardware stores, some home improvement centers, and from most woodworking stores.
Read and follow the instructions on the box. Don't overlook the instructions printed on the inside of the box.
It may take half a dozen applications to get the wood really white.
Waterborne finishes, spray acrylic finishes (Krylon), and some spray lacquer finishes usually keep the wood the whitest.
It is always a good idea to test on a scrap piece first.
Hi,
what is a 2-part bleach?
I only have householdbleach here and it indicates that it contains less than 5 % chlore.
I gave it several layers .... on birch .... the result is not fantastic, I'm afraid.
So, What does 2-part bleach mean?
Meanwhile, I'll try the waterperoxide and ammonia .... on the bleached birch.
Why ammonia??? ammonia makes woods which contains tannin brown.
You can say birch does not contain tannin but ... the turned wood was a bit damaged here and there and I soaked the small damaged part with hot water and vinegar and steamed the damage out (just as flexner indicates). It worked well but left some dark traces in the birch .... caused by the vinegar, I suppose. Vinegar normally dos not react ... I use it to clean unfinished dishes for food ... but in this case it reacted. Why? Probably not on tannin in birch but why did it react?
I'm just afraid that .... if something innocent as vinegar gives dark spots on innocent birch, ammonia will certainly do ....
But I'll try it anyway.
thanks! ... and .... what is a 2-part bleach?
Squirrel
Bye and thanks
squirrel
what is a 2-part bleach?
I only have householdbleach here and it indicates that it contains less than 5 % chlore.
I gave it several layers .... on birch .... the result is not fantastic, I'm afraid.
So, What does 2-part bleach mean?
Meanwhile, I'll try the waterperoxide and ammonia .... on the bleached birch.
Why ammonia??? ammonia makes woods which contains tannin brown.
You can say birch does not contain tannin but ... the turned wood was a bit damaged here and there and I soaked the small damaged part with hot water and vinegar and steamed the damage out (just as flexner indicates). It worked well but left some dark traces in the birch .... caused by the vinegar, I suppose. Vinegar normally dos not react ... I use it to clean unfinished dishes for food ... but in this case it reacted. Why? Probably not on tannin in birch but why did it react?
I'm just afraid that .... if something innocent as vinegar gives dark spots on innocent birch, ammonia will certainly do ....
But I'll try it anyway.
thanks! ... and .... what is a 2-part bleach?
Squirrel
Bye and thanks
squirrel
- Joined
- May 16, 2005
- Messages
- 3,540
- Likes
- 15
This is a pretty good article. Language is simple, chemistry nearly so.
http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/jeff/using_wood_bleach.htm
One supposes the ammonia is a substitute for the lye in other two-part bleaches.
http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/jeff/using_wood_bleach.htm
One supposes the ammonia is a substitute for the lye in other two-part bleaches.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
The wood bleach that I buy is 2 part. It has a part A and Part B and you mix them together and apply it to the wood. It lasts for about 24 hours or so. I usually mix up about 2 oz and apply as many coats as I can letting each layer dry. I can do about 6 or more in a day. Usually 6 to 10 coatings is all it takes. It says to neutralize the bleach with White vinegar after the last application but I've never done that and haven't had any problems.
since the finish always darkens it it is best to make it lighter than you want. You can check how dark it gets by applying straight water on the piece. This will give an approximation of what it will look like with finish applied. If it's not light enough apply another coat or 2 of the bleach.
since the finish always darkens it it is best to make it lighter than you want. You can check how dark it gets by applying straight water on the piece. This will give an approximation of what it will look like with finish applied. If it's not light enough apply another coat or 2 of the bleach.
Steve Worcester
Admin Emeritus
See if these guys will ship to belgium or if they have a distributor there. They have a 2 part bleach that is the best I have found
http://www.hoodfinishing.com/
It is far better (or caustic?) than the stuff you mix together. If you mix these two parts together, it would probably catch on fire.
http://www.hoodfinishing.com/
It is far better (or caustic?) than the stuff you mix together. If you mix these two parts together, it would probably catch on fire.
Hi Squirrel,
as far as I know, 2 part bleach is not available on our side of the pond.
I use the following recipe:
1- first apply a mix of caustic soda (10%), St Marc (10%, you probably have this in Belgium), water (80%). apply to the wood. don't be afraid, the wood will turn very dark (especially if it's highly tannic). it brings the tannin out of the wood, and then the bleaching step gives better result
2- then mix 95% hydrogene peroxyde (H2O2) with 5% ammonia. the ammonia is here to help activation of H2O2.
3- repeat step 2 until you are happy with the result.
all these products are dangerous. wear gloves, protective googles and long sleeves. take care of the small droplets that can touch your body. it burns.
never touch a piece treated with H2O2 before it's really dry. otherwise after a few seconds you'll feel a burn on your fingers.
Pascal
as far as I know, 2 part bleach is not available on our side of the pond.
I use the following recipe:
1- first apply a mix of caustic soda (10%), St Marc (10%, you probably have this in Belgium), water (80%). apply to the wood. don't be afraid, the wood will turn very dark (especially if it's highly tannic). it brings the tannin out of the wood, and then the bleaching step gives better result
2- then mix 95% hydrogene peroxyde (H2O2) with 5% ammonia. the ammonia is here to help activation of H2O2.
3- repeat step 2 until you are happy with the result.
all these products are dangerous. wear gloves, protective googles and long sleeves. take care of the small droplets that can touch your body. it burns.
never touch a piece treated with H2O2 before it's really dry. otherwise after a few seconds you'll feel a burn on your fingers.
Pascal
dryness before applying bleach
I have just ordered 2 part bleach from Kingspors-no label but "2 part bleach" (my local true value hardware, home depot nor sherman williams carried Kleen Strip). I turn "green" wood (some dead for several years tho) using mineral oil for the 400+ grits. Then I let dry several days to weeks before applying finish. I have some ambrosia natural edged single turnings that I'd like to try bleaching as the white is smudgey looking. When can it be done??-After totally dry and stable or before??? Bigger stuff I double turn and then it would be dry. If I bleach it and then use Danish oil ( or walnut oil) am I defeating the reason for bleaching???? Gretch
I have just ordered 2 part bleach from Kingspors-no label but "2 part bleach" (my local true value hardware, home depot nor sherman williams carried Kleen Strip). I turn "green" wood (some dead for several years tho) using mineral oil for the 400+ grits. Then I let dry several days to weeks before applying finish. I have some ambrosia natural edged single turnings that I'd like to try bleaching as the white is smudgey looking. When can it be done??-After totally dry and stable or before??? Bigger stuff I double turn and then it would be dry. If I bleach it and then use Danish oil ( or walnut oil) am I defeating the reason for bleaching???? Gretch
Waw! Such a forum is wonderfull!
What a lot of information!
I think 2-part bleach does not exist here ... I'll have a look anyway.
In the meanwhile I used the 95 % peroxide and 5 % ammonia ... and it bleaches very well ... I'm very satisfied BUT ... the wood moves!!! I put first 3 coats of bleach and then 4 coats of the peroxide and ammonia and now, the platter (diam 45 cm) which had a superb flat bottom ... is not flat anymore! What a pity!
I'll have another try on another platter and now I'll use only the peroxide (30 %) but it still will need several coats ... and this takes risks with it.
So, I will have a look if I can get it in higher concentration: 60 % maybe.
Then I need lesser coats, don't I? And yes, I'll be carefull not to burn myself.
I wonder whether I can apply the finish now directly on the bleached surface (peroxide + ammonia) or do I have to wash the platter with water before I can apply a finish.
And: should this finish be waterbased (waterbased varnish) or can it also be a finish based on alcohol (shellac)? I think both are possible.
I'm very curious to try out the other possibilities you have wriiten as well.
Thank you very much!
Squirrel
What a lot of information!
I think 2-part bleach does not exist here ... I'll have a look anyway.
In the meanwhile I used the 95 % peroxide and 5 % ammonia ... and it bleaches very well ... I'm very satisfied BUT ... the wood moves!!! I put first 3 coats of bleach and then 4 coats of the peroxide and ammonia and now, the platter (diam 45 cm) which had a superb flat bottom ... is not flat anymore! What a pity!
I'll have another try on another platter and now I'll use only the peroxide (30 %) but it still will need several coats ... and this takes risks with it.
So, I will have a look if I can get it in higher concentration: 60 % maybe.
Then I need lesser coats, don't I? And yes, I'll be carefull not to burn myself.
I wonder whether I can apply the finish now directly on the bleached surface (peroxide + ammonia) or do I have to wash the platter with water before I can apply a finish.
And: should this finish be waterbased (waterbased varnish) or can it also be a finish based on alcohol (shellac)? I think both are possible.
I'm very curious to try out the other possibilities you have wriiten as well.
Thank you very much!
Squirrel
Squirel, I'm not sure you can buy a stronger H2O2 (except if you are an industry). 30% (130 vol) is what is available in hardware stores. I believe 35% does exist, but have never seen it.
with it, you are adding water to the wood, no wonder it moves if the wood is not stable. it will also raise the fibers a bit. Like John, I have never put anything to neutralize the bleach before applying a finish (oil). but most of the time bleach is followed by other steps before the finish.
Gretch, I never wondered about green or dry wood. for sure I've used it on both and haven't noticed a difference. there's no risk in trying. the walnut or danish oil will add a yellow tint to the wood. the best finish is no finish.
all this is experimentation, I've developped my method with various comparative trials over the years, on the woods I use. the best advice I can give is "try, and let us know the results".
Pascal
with it, you are adding water to the wood, no wonder it moves if the wood is not stable. it will also raise the fibers a bit. Like John, I have never put anything to neutralize the bleach before applying a finish (oil). but most of the time bleach is followed by other steps before the finish.
Gretch, I never wondered about green or dry wood. for sure I've used it on both and haven't noticed a difference. there's no risk in trying. the walnut or danish oil will add a yellow tint to the wood. the best finish is no finish.
all this is experimentation, I've developped my method with various comparative trials over the years, on the woods I use. the best advice I can give is "try, and let us know the results".
Pascal
Steve Worcester
Admin Emeritus
You will definitely be changing the color with the oil.
- Joined
- May 14, 2004
- Messages
- 445
- Likes
- 1
- Location
- Middlesex County, Virginia
- Website
- www.velvitoil.com
If I want to keep the white color I use a thin water base poly. It will soak in with the first two coats. I lightly sand between coats to smooth the raised fibers.