For those of you who turn bowls with those thin natural edge wings, I have a new found respect. I did a small one last night and that's just scary even at low speeds. Is there a trick to making this any easier. I really like the look, maybe I just need some more practice.
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New Found Respect
- Thread starter Bryant
- Start date
Max Taylor
In Memoriam
[You are right. Only light cuts, as part of the time the tool will be in thin air. Do not advance the tool aggressively, especially when you get to the 'wings'.Hopefully helpful.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I have two tricks that I think make it easier, especially for beginners. Put a piece of tape on your tool rest to show you where the "invisible" tip of the bowl is. This makes it easier to start the cut.
PLace the gouge inside the bowl where you can actually see the wood spinning. Place it with the bevel rubbing lightly but the tip is not cutting. Now back it up along the bowl until you get to the tip. Now move the handle toward the right so the cut will start and start cutting. This lets you get comfortable with how light to push on the bevel and also how to move your body to trace the bevel across the bowl.
Only cut the first inch or so to the final thickness. Then move down and cut the next inch or so. The technique mentioned above helps blend this "lump". I make a cut then drag the bevel back up, move the handle slightly and make another cut. Each one of these movements is like a muscle memory thing that helps you learn the movements to control the shape.
PLace the gouge inside the bowl where you can actually see the wood spinning. Place it with the bevel rubbing lightly but the tip is not cutting. Now back it up along the bowl until you get to the tip. Now move the handle toward the right so the cut will start and start cutting. This lets you get comfortable with how light to push on the bevel and also how to move your body to trace the bevel across the bowl.
Only cut the first inch or so to the final thickness. Then move down and cut the next inch or so. The technique mentioned above helps blend this "lump". I make a cut then drag the bevel back up, move the handle slightly and make another cut. Each one of these movements is like a muscle memory thing that helps you learn the movements to control the shape.
Speed
Major tip is speed. I've turned some bigger ones (20+" at the wings), so to smooth the cuts I step on the gas. This decreases the time you're cutting air. With a 20" piece spinning at 1,400 rpm, the "gap" almost disappears. See the piece at
http://www.woodturner.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2144&password=0&sort=1&cat=500&page=1
This is a pretty nervey endeavor. Do make sure you use a grip that allows you to strongly control your tool's advance, and keep the rest as close as possible, adjusting it after each cut, if necessary.
Be carefull of how you set your rest. Its angle to the spindle axis will, as much as anything, determine the form of the wings.
Need I say you need to be sure of your mounting?
BE SURE OF YOUR MOUNTING!
Need I say to use the tailstock?
USE THE TAILSTOCK AT ALL TIMES! You can do this even if the "bowl" is finished by placing a block of softer wood between the bowl surface and the TS point. Add a little piece of double faced tape between the wood block and the bowl surface to help the friction fit.
Others comments are also good.
Major tip is speed. I've turned some bigger ones (20+" at the wings), so to smooth the cuts I step on the gas. This decreases the time you're cutting air. With a 20" piece spinning at 1,400 rpm, the "gap" almost disappears. See the piece at
http://www.woodturner.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2144&password=0&sort=1&cat=500&page=1
This is a pretty nervey endeavor. Do make sure you use a grip that allows you to strongly control your tool's advance, and keep the rest as close as possible, adjusting it after each cut, if necessary.
Be carefull of how you set your rest. Its angle to the spindle axis will, as much as anything, determine the form of the wings.
Need I say you need to be sure of your mounting?
BE SURE OF YOUR MOUNTING!
Need I say to use the tailstock?
USE THE TAILSTOCK AT ALL TIMES! You can do this even if the "bowl" is finished by placing a block of softer wood between the bowl surface and the TS point. Add a little piece of double faced tape between the wood block and the bowl surface to help the friction fit.
Others comments are also good.
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Remember that you are cutting "cross-grain" out on the wings. Therefore you can expect some feathering and tearout on the trailing edge as the tool leaves the wood. Keeping your tool very sharp (I hone for this cut) will reduce this, but you can also help by adding some strength to the fibers with a little finish like shellac.
mind your fingers!
Mark, I turn the "wingers" much as do you but not as large. Speed is the key as are watching the "shaddow" on the off-side of the piece & knowing were the "shaddow" is in relation to the tool and your fingers. I also "mark" the tool rest, as does John, just to be sure.
As you say, this is not a turning that can be rushed, especially if one is new to the process. It's no fun putting bandaids on your fingers or pulling a gouge out of either you or the wall. If the turner doesn't own a face shield--GET ONE.
Mark, I turn the "wingers" much as do you but not as large. Speed is the key as are watching the "shaddow" on the off-side of the piece & knowing were the "shaddow" is in relation to the tool and your fingers. I also "mark" the tool rest, as does John, just to be sure.
As you say, this is not a turning that can be rushed, especially if one is new to the process. It's no fun putting bandaids on your fingers or pulling a gouge out of either you or the wall. If the turner doesn't own a face shield--GET ONE.
What I haven't tried is those off-center things that Batty does, where one wing is 2" and the other is 8". Seems like that would be about all air in the cut! 
Bandaids? I met one guy who had his left hand and wrist in a sling sporting a large number of sutures after getting caught in the "propellor"!
m
ps If a turner doesn't have a face shield, they should not be a turner (until they get one and wear it)
Bandaids? I met one guy who had his left hand and wrist in a sling sporting a large number of sutures after getting caught in the "propellor"!
m
ps If a turner doesn't have a face shield, they should not be a turner (until they get one and wear it)
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Steve Worcester
Admin Emeritus
Large size + high speed, you may need a prosthesis not a band aid.Mark Mandell said:
I have done some multi-winged pieces, up to about 30" and it is indeed a whole new game when you get big. I still prefer under 12" tip to tip.
Steve Worcester said:
Fella I met counted himself lucky because he wasn't cutting on the wing, but rather at the center. He had the rest set to the right so when he got "caught", so his hand didn't get slammed into the rest which would have broken bones as well.
And we call this fun?
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Card of the opposite color is a great place to start. If light wood, dark background, light for dark. Helps you keep the edges in view. Get a clip flood or some such so you can get nice directional light to keep the real edge, not some shadow in sight.
Slow is still smart, but it can be frustrating. There's no "just right" here, but there is a "just wrong" speed. That's the one that won't allow you to pull back in time to compensate for follow as you depart the wood for air, getting you in smack and crack territory on the leading edge of the next wing. I think this is why people want to go faster. Personally, I am overhand grips and rest-hugging all the way. I keep reminding myself not to push.
Your choice of gouge can help you. I stick with the large-radius types on their edges, where a too slow retract will push the top of the gouge away rather than dig in when the next wing comes through. Staying above centerline outside is bright, too. Same reason. Inside goes below center so a falling hand will hit air, a press will push clear.
I like pivot entries here as well. Some turners don't even recognize what I'm saying, but it's a full body pivot to move the nose of the tool from no touch to the high-angle high-risk entry without moving your small muscles. Shift body weight and scoop through. Safer, because the pivot has you already established on the way out as you begin.
Slow is still smart, but it can be frustrating. There's no "just right" here, but there is a "just wrong" speed. That's the one that won't allow you to pull back in time to compensate for follow as you depart the wood for air, getting you in smack and crack territory on the leading edge of the next wing. I think this is why people want to go faster. Personally, I am overhand grips and rest-hugging all the way. I keep reminding myself not to push.
Your choice of gouge can help you. I stick with the large-radius types on their edges, where a too slow retract will push the top of the gouge away rather than dig in when the next wing comes through. Staying above centerline outside is bright, too. Same reason. Inside goes below center so a falling hand will hit air, a press will push clear.
I like pivot entries here as well. Some turners don't even recognize what I'm saying, but it's a full body pivot to move the nose of the tool from no touch to the high-angle high-risk entry without moving your small muscles. Shift body weight and scoop through. Safer, because the pivot has you already established on the way out as you begin.
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fingers & tools
whenever I turn a "winged" piece I put a piece of tape over the "high" edge leaving 3/4" overhang as a saftey flapper. If the tape hits my hand or tool I know I'm real close. Any tape works, just don't use red electric tape cause you don't know if its bloody.
whenever I turn a "winged" piece I put a piece of tape over the "high" edge leaving 3/4" overhang as a saftey flapper. If the tape hits my hand or tool I know I'm real close. Any tape works, just don't use red electric tape cause you don't know if its bloody.