Making your own tools

[Big Dog]

Does anyone have any information on making your own tools. In particular gouges. I am looking for information on tooling and machine set up and different types of steel used. I have been interested in making some gouges for myself but am not sure how to get started. I have a small mill and metal lathe and most of the required tools (I think) although you can never have enough tools.

Big Dog

 

[Rick-U]

Suggestions from a tool making novice

Hi Big Dog,

If you have a mill and metal lathe I presume you already know how to use them. You probably won't want to buy and mill round HSS stock, because I'm pretty sure it comes alreay hardened. I also don't know if you can get away with annealing it, milling it, and retempering it successfully. I sure wouldn't trust myself to do it. If it's a good idea I'll let a pro suggest it.

What I would be willing to try myself (if I had the tools) would be to get some drill rod of the appropriate size, mill it, and harden it. I have some waiting for me to make some poor boy tools not requiring a mill or lathe. I found some good info the other evening with a Google search. Here are a couple of URLs to get you going.

http://www.westyorkssteel.com
http://www.littlemachineshop.com
http://www.westyorkssteel.com

John Lucas did a tool making demo for our club last November, and that got me started.

Hope this helps.

 

[john lucas]

The one tool I haven't made yet is a gouge. I just don't have the tools. My best friend had access to a machine shop so he made one out of HSS. He used a grinder. He shaped the flute with a round end mill and then polished the flute with a grinding wheel on an ID/OD grinder. He had access to a high quality heating unit to heat tread the HSS.
I looked into heat treating HSS and it was far to difficult to do at home with out a good furnice. I use Drill rod and heat treat it the Blacksmith way. It comes annealed so it's easy to mill or shape.
Since you have a metal lathe and mill you might consider making bowl gouge tips. I forget who markets those but they are 3" or so tips that fit into a bar. It only requires that you mill a short flute.

 

[Steve Worcester]

I have a heat treating oven, but for the amount of time, tooling and the cost of the steel, I just buy them. 1/2" M2 is $47 for 3', but it needs a 2200 degree oven.

You could probably make it out of O1, it is pretty forgiving, easy to machine and relatively inexpensive. As quenched, without tempering, it is about rockwell 63.

The hardest part is getting a mill bit shaped the way you want the flute. I suppose a ball-end mill would work.

There are a few good books on metal heat treating and tool steels out there, but for gouges, I buy them.

 

[Glenn]

Making Gouges

I have made turning tools out of O1 tool steel on two seperate occasions. I have made 1 1/2" by 3/8" thick scrapers, 3/8" bedan, 3/8" parting tool, 3/8" round skew, 1/2" and 3/8" pyramid point and 1/2" and 3/8" skewchie gouge. Most recently, I made a 3/4" bowl gouge.

The flute is about 3/8" deep and extends back about 4". The total length is 18". The O1 worked fairly easy with a silicon carbide cutter in a (air powered) die grinder. It cut quick enough to get the job done but slow enough to be forgiving when doing it free hand. I shaped the tip to a fingernail on a bench grinder using a jig for a Tormek grinder. The gouge was placed in a pipe and packed with (ground up) pet coke. The pet coke is there to scavenge oxygen (burn). By preferentially buring the coke, the steel is less likely to become decarburized. Charcoal can also be used (real charcoal is better than the briquets...) but we had the pet coke laying around. It was heat treated at 1400 F for 1.5 hrs, quenched in used motor oil and tempered at 375 F for 1 hr. I'll sharpen it in the Tormek when I get a chance (my Dad has the Tormek...).

O1 is a good substitute for M2 in turning tools. M2 is more prone to cracking than O1. O1 is also easier to work (cut, grind shape) than M2 and also displays better toughness (ability to deform rather than fracture). O1 has good resistance to wear but has a low resistance to softening at elevated temperatures. For amature tool makers like us, we're better off with O1. Just take it easy when you sharpen O1. Don't let it get too hot.

 

[john lucas]

I did talk to one gentleman who made his gouge by glueing the round stock into a piece of wood and then used a metal cutting abrasive wheel in his table saw. He made multiple passes to get the shape close and then used sandpaper wrapped around a dowel to sand away the cut marks.
If you try this be sure to clean out your table saw of all sawdust because the cutoff blade produces a lot of sparkes.

 

[Big Dog]

Thanks for the tips. Has anyone had any experience with A2 steel?

 

[Dr_dewey]

scraper from A2

made a large scraper from A2, 1 3/4" wide and 1/2" thick, i cut it with Oxy-acetylene torch and finished the shape with a #24 grinding wheel. Had it heated treated at a shop, vacuum heated to over 1700 and cooled then oven treated at 400 or so for 2 hours. Rockwell about 59.

the little henry taylor scraper beside it is 1" wide

 

[Glenn]

Thanks for the tips. Has anyone had any experience with A2 steel?

I have not used A2. According to the
Metals Handbook (Amer. Society for Metals), A2 looks to be a good chioce. It is superior to O1 in the wear department and isn't prone to cracking. The only detractor is that it is harder to machine. (See Dr.Dewey's post)

I'll try to get some pix of my stuff up tonight.


Dr.Dewey: How do you like your scraper? I made a couple big ones with 20" Oak handles. I love the feel (or less chattering/vibration) of the massive scrapers. I find them easier to control too.

 

[Dr_dewey]

Big scrapers and gouges

Yes it is a joy to use, less chatter like you said. Still use the little guys for finer stuff, but for roughing out the bottoms of green blanks it is a winner. Made a similar one from D2, a little smaller and more a radiused scraper. It was much harder to cut with a torch but hold the edge well.

My one question about gouges, apart from the milling problem and finding the proper profile for a grinding or cutter wheel, would an offset gullet be better for cutting on one side of the gouge?? My thought is that if one side was wider you could get a bigger side grind and have better control of the cut. Might need 2 gouges with the asymetry left and right handed for inside and outside cutting.

The other thought for making a grinding profile for the gullet would be to use a diamond dressing tool to shape a normal grinding wheel, maybe start with a very coarse wheel for the initial cuts and then move to a fine wheel. they're much cheaper than custom made cutting wheels.

 

[Steve Worcester]

I think the only tools still forged are roughing gouges.

As far as heat treating, some good guidlines are available on the Buffalo Presicion metals website
http://www.buffaloprecision.com/data_sheets/data_sheets_cp.htm

RE: Decarbing - I asked around and most people don't seem to think that it would matter that much. After that though, I did start using stainless foil wrap in the oven and cut down on the decarbing considerably.

Another problem with M2 is that it requires a much higher temp, but you can alway nitrogen treat it. I may send a batch of the tools I am working on to them and try that route.
You can read about Nitrogen treating at http://www.onecryo.com/onecryo/manufact.htm

 

[Glenn]

Ok, got some pix....

Please excuse the quality of some of the pictures. I just grabbed the camera and started snapping.

This is the 3/4" O1 gouge I made.


Close up of the flute.


Another close up, looking down the flute.

Next to the lathe in the handle.

On a side note, here are the two 1 1/2" (W), 3/8" (Thick) scrapers I made out of O1. Blade length is 7" exposed. Handle out of 8/4 oak, 20" in length. These are a dream to use. Kind of like that baseball bat/golf club/ tennis racket that just feels 'right'.

Edit to add: Sorry about the repulsively titanic jpegs....

(Steve: Please resizse the pictures, 640x something should be OK)

Edit to remove pictures and replace them with smaller ones.

 

[Glenn]

Yes it is a joy to use, less chatter like you said. Still use the little guys for finer stuff, but for roughing out the bottoms of green blanks it is a winner. Made a similar one from D2, a little smaller and more a radiused scraper. It was much harder to cut with a torch but hold the edge well.

My one question about gouges, apart from the milling problem and finding the proper profile for a grinding or cutter wheel, would an offset gullet be better for cutting on one side of the gouge?? My thought is that if one side was wider you could get a bigger side grind and have better control of the cut. Might need 2 gouges with the asymetry left and right handed for inside and outside cutting.

The other thought for making a grinding profile for the gullet would be to use a diamond dressing tool to shape a normal grinding wheel, maybe start with a very coarse wheel for the initial cuts and then move to a fine wheel. they're much cheaper than custom made cutting wheels.

I don't know the answer to this. It is, however, one of the joys of tool making. Get a drill rod, play around with cutting/grinding it to you specifications and see how it cuts! Your gouge may be the next big thing to hit the turning market. Or it might be the next Edsel. For a $6 piece of tool steel, it might be worth your time.

 

[Jeff Jilg]

Neither Steve nor I can resize the pics once they have been posted. We can do minor text editing, or we can delete posts or entire threads.

You might consider deleting your post, editing the pics to the appropriate size, and then reposting. This is just a suggestion....you could also leave them as-is, it's up to you.

 

[pfduffy]

Making tools

When it comes to small detail tools I find that allen wrences make great raw material. You can round the ends, grind them flat or leave them alone but it is nice to have a little tool of a particular shape to do fine work. - - just my 2cts. Phil

 

[Dr_dewey]

concrete nails

Work fine also, grind the head to a hook and it makes a good tool for captive rings.

 

[akransom]

roughing gouge needed

Several years ago I got a 3" roughing gouge and after a year of searching I can't find another. It is made from 3/8" stock and it is getting too short, see it a www.turningaround.org . Anyone know where I can get one made? The 3" roughing gouge and a 3/8" bowl gouge are used for 90% of my work and I am getting desperate.

 

[Steve Worcester]

At the symposium Cryosteel (CET) showed this roughing gouge. I am sure it aint cheap, but it would be the biggest one I have ever seen commercially available.

 

[Dr_dewey]

The pic has no scale - how to tell - what size it is.