Segmented Vase Design - What's He Talking About?

[Tom De Winter]

I watched this video and in his description says: "Every ring on this vase is tapered to 7 degrees which makes you give the vase a second look."

What is 7 degrees?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqC5nSkuDYw&feature=youtu.be

 

[Russ Braun]

Looks like a 7 degree taper yields a vessel angle; move it in and out yields a non-traditional form. For my two cents, form is so important when creating a piece; it’s always a challenge! Opinions are personal but I’ve seen an amazing amount of work put into pieces that ultimately look odd because of the “end result” form! Just looking at this piece is an example of that IMO. I would say this piece should have stopped just before the first bend! Excellent Segmenting work regardless!!

 

[Chris Lawrence]

Maybe the shape of the outside? Love when people make hey watch me turn videos with no real info and no replies to comments. Looks like he is doing this just to make a profit through amazon sales by all the links in his text description below the video.

 

[Gene Kearns]

Yeah, I don't get this, either. With 24 segments, I'd say the angle should be 7.5° per side. I don't know what a vessel angle is, so that may change the answer. I would think any quality glue-up would involve ((360° divided by the number of angled segments) divided by 2) for the saw cut angle. If 360° is divided by the degrees used, it should be an integer or something is amiss... assuming all of the segments are at the same angle and glued up in the same direction. I would consider the diameter of the rings to be a red herring.

 

[john lucas]

Perhaps is saw is cutting inaccuratly and he has to use 7 degrees to get the segments to fit.

 

[Lawrence Duckworth]

Looks like a 7 degree taper yields a vessel angle; move it in and out yields a non-traditional form. For my two cents, form is so important when creating a piece; it’s always a challenge! Opinions are personal but I’ve seen an amazing amount of work put into pieces that ultimately look odd because of the “end result” form! Just looking at this piece is an example of that IMO. I would say this piece should have stopped just before the first bend! Excellent Segmenting work regardless!!

Russ, I can't tell you how many times I've looked at my work a week , a month or a year later and asked myself...what was I thinking. ...ya just don't see sometimes

 

[Tom De Winter]

Love when people make hey watch me turn videos with no real info and no replies to comments. Looks like he is doing this just to make a profit through amazon sales by all the links in his text description below the video.

Well I had the same feeling. Looks like he only answers a few fluff questions and never anything else.

My stomach churned and I clicked the Idiot Button when he stuck his arm up to the elbow inside to sand with the lathe turned on.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Maybe the shape of the outside? Love when people make hey watch me turn videos with no real info and no replies to comments. Looks like he is doing this just to make a profit through amazon sales by all the links in his text description below the video.

But we did get to listen to the radio that he left playing in the background, and that was no extra charge.

 

[Chris Lawrence]

Well I had the same feeling. Looks like he only answers a few fluff questions and never anything else.

My stomach churned and I clicked the Idiot Button when he stuck his arm up to the elbow inside to sand with the lathe turned on.

Did you watch the next video in the list that he makes the big one? That was interesting when he rode the ways like a cowboy to turn the inside.

 

[Don O. Jr.]

It appears to me that the rings themselves are tapered 7 degrees across their diameters. So 1 side of the ring is thicker than the other, not individual segments. When you put the tapers opposite each other it comes out straight-I think. Kind of like Malcolm T does with his elaborate sculptures, but he usually puts all the thin sides together to form curves. Clear as mud, right?

 

[john lucas]

I just did 2 pieces like that with tapered rings. My computer is down so i cant post photos right now. I took my new and old computer in to have all.the info moved.over. the 2 guys that do all.the repair had to self quarantine due to possible covid exposure so my computer is in limbo right now. I built two bowls. One with the thin side of the rings all on the same side. So about half way up the vessel it was turning mostly air with one side being mostly open. Really harrowing hollowing. The other one was a bowl.with everynother ring flipped. It was hard to see the joints so it was a.waste.of time. If I had used colored glue or veneer between each layer it might have been very interesting.

 

[brian horais]

I enjoy it when turners deviate from the 'normal' path and try something a little different. In this case, it presents a visual effect that is subtle but very interesting once you realize what the turner has done. Experimenting with techniques and adding different techniques together keeps turning interesting for many of us and opens new avenues for those willing to explore. I've tried some of this by combining segmented turning with multi-axis turning. The challenge for this is to make a segmented design work with the twist (or vice versa). I bet many of us enjoy the mental planning challenges in woodturning just as much as the actual turning phase. Here's some examples of segmented designs integrated with multi-axis turning.

 

[Robert D Evans]

Ok Brian, now you got me thinking. Hmmm. Multi axis vase with the tornado pattern.

 

[brian horais]

That's a great idea Robert! Exploring the combination of techniques can be very satisfying (and sometimes challenging). But if anything is too easy, is it really worth doing? Here's an excerpt from the 2019 AAW Symposium presentation/demo I did on Twisted Segmented Turning. This may give you some ideas for your 'exploration'. Enjoy (and let me know how it 'turns' out).

 

[John Hicks]

Me make bowl

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

Well I just watched the video again and noticed the method he uses to set the length of his segments is nothing more than holding up the stick to a cut edge on the fence and if you watch carefully you can see that it isn't always right on. The sloppy length stop ( or lack of ) and the 7 degree cut instead of 7 1/2 degree indicates that the joints must be very poor. The black paper or whatever it is in all of the joints must be something to hide the poor joints.
The part of the video where he runs the rings thru the drum sander makes sense but is he doing it on both sides? The portion of the video where he is gluing the rings shows him flattening the previous ring why is that necessary unless he didn't flatten both sides with the drum sander.
There are many poor and unsafe practices already pointed out previously and I don't understand why AAW has not blocked it from the forum.

 

[Tom De Winter]

I think he said (or wrote?) that the black material was a veneer.

I'm new here so maybe I just don't get it. I realize that this is an AAW forum but why should they be the "safe practices police"?

 

[Michael Nathal]

Well I just watched the video again and noticed the method he uses to set the length of his segments is nothing more than holding up the stick to a cut edge on the fence and if you watch carefully you can see that it isn't always right on. The sloppy length stop ( or lack of ) and the 7 degree cut instead of 7 1/2 degree indicates that the joints must be very poor. The black paper or whatever it is in all of the joints must be something to hide the poor joints.
The part of the video where he runs the rings thru the drum sander makes sense but is he doing it on both sides? The portion of the video where he is gluing the rings shows him flattening the previous ring why is that necessary unless he didn't flatten both sides with the drum sander.

I disagree. He runs the rings through the drum sander to create a 7 degree taper like Don O. and John Lucas mention above. I have watched several of his videos and believe his miter saw is dialed in perfectly. In fact, his work looks to me to be extraordinarily precise, in the same category as John Beaver or Malcom Tibetts. Look at his video called "A calm before the storm" -- to make a 3 ft long, 18 inch diameter vase with a 3/8 wall thickness is quite impressive.

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

I disagree. He runs the rings through the drum sander to create a 7 degree taper like Don O. and John Lucas mention above. I have watched several of his videos and believe his miter saw is dialed in perfectly. In fact, his work looks to me to be extraordinarily precise, in the same category as John Beaver or Malcom Tibetts. Look at his video called "A calm before the storm" -- to make a 3 ft long, 18 inch diameter vase with a 3/8 wall thickness is quite impressive.

In the matter of the 7 degree taper if my math is correct a 10 " diameter about 1.22" on one side and 0 on the other.

 

[Tom De Winter]

Wouldn't that take a tapered sled for the drum sander? I didn't think a drum sander would have that much adjustment.
Plus it complicates the segments unless you are willing to make the rings thick and do a lot of sanding.

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

Wouldn't that take a tapered sled for the drum sander? I didn't think a drum sander would have that much adjustment.
Plus it complicates the segments unless you are willing to make the rings thick and do a lot of sanding.

In the video there is a phase where he hot melt glues them to to a sled and then runs them thru the drum sander.

 

[Tom De Winter]

Guess I missed that

 

[egsiegel]

I watched this video and in his description says: "Every ring on this vase is tapered to 7 degrees which makes you give the vase a second look."

What is 7 degrees?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqC5nSkuDYw&feature=youtu.be

it looks like his rings are tapered so the layer lines are not straight around....(hard to word that so it makes sense).
I don't think it adds to the piece...and actually looks like a mistake to me. it if is done at 7 degrees...maybe a 15 degree taper would make it more obvious and interesting.
Something like this looks to me like something you do to impress other turners....because they know the challenge. But the overall piece is not very pleasing. I would look at this piece and say "he couldn't get his rings flattened before gluing"
Just my humble opinion.

 

[Michael Nathal]

He use shims on the sled to achieve a taper. The OP's specific video does not show it clearly but another one by Toth shows it better:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHjfu9cOVeo



I am pretty sure the technique was developed first by Malcolm Tibbetts, Malcolm shows the details pretty clearly (not to mention an amazing segmented project) in this video:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PtDu34V2zM



Also attached is an extreme example of tapered rings from Kyle Toth:

 

[egsiegel]

He use shims on the sled to achieve a taper. The OP's specific video does not show it clearly but another one by Toth shows it better:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHjfu9cOVeo



I am pretty sure the technique was developed first by Malcolm Tibbetts, Malcolm shows the details pretty clearly (not to mention an amazing segmented project) in this video:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PtDu34V2zM



Also attached is an extreme example of tapered rings from Kyle Toth:

this sample LOOKS like it was done intentionally...and it interesting and looks good. The one on the original question (video) is so close to straight, it looks like a mistake.