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Bedan tool- bevel up or down?

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Made a Bedan tool a while back and was looking at a YT video. The guy turned a recess for a chuck to turn a bowl. He turned with the bevel down. I would think that bevel up would be proper. What is the proper way to use the Bedan tool? More than one way, depending on the application to the wood?
 
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If the guy turned a recess, I would imagine he was using it as a scraper, so yes, bevel down. Used by a Master, (that would not be me) it is a cutting tool and used bevel up, from my experience, mostly spindle work. My class was years ago with Jean-Francois Escoulen at Arrowmont. He did some amazing things with a bedan. So did I for that matter, beautiful spirals, amazing dig ins and some spectacular catches... The bevel is quite steep and honed razor sharp, so, used like a scraper, would lose the edge fairly quickly.
But, it will scrape...
 

john lucas

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Escoulon uses it with the bevel.up. he is using the flat side as his bevel. I tried it both ways back when I had one. I couldn't tell much difference although I was kind of new to the skew back then it seemed catchy. I would think I would be much more successful today.
 
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Bevel up, if you want to do much more than scrape. I'm slowly trying to learn to use it bevel up, which makes it much more useful and cuts very cleanly.. As Clifton C commented mistakes can be 'interesting'.
 
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I watched Escoulon's Japan video but the sound wasn't real good. I know he is a wizard with the Bedan tool. Will look for other videos by him. Anyone else you would recommend? John, I have a catchy skew.:p Didn't cost extra for the catchy part.
 

Timothy Allen

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More than one way, depending on the application to the wood?

Yes, this. I use my Bedan bevel-up to make slicing cuts, especially when turning spindle stock, but will sometimes use it bevel-down as a scraper, for example when fine tuning a tenon or recess on a face-grain (bowl) blank.
 
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I tried my DIY Bedan tool and it did absolutely nothing either way! Sharpened it and honed it with a diamond file. Nothing!
 
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One of my Bedans is sharpened to the angle of my chucks jaws, makes making the dovetail easy. That Bedan is straight sided, I have ground a couple trapezoidal for side clearance.
 
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One of my Bedans is sharpened to the angle of my chucks jaws, makes making the dovetail easy. That Bedan is straight sided, I have ground a couple trapezoidal for side clearance.
Thanks. I have two more pieces of square stock that I can make some other configurations of a Bedan type tool.
 
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Watched some YT videos on the Bedan. One thing was the angle of the bevel. Guessed at 60 degrees but came out exactly to 55 degrees. OK. Hit the four edges with a touch to the grinder. Applied to a piece on the lathe. Chips were flying! Actually worked as a parting tool. Decided to take a chance and rolled the edges down into the parting groove. That worked, too. Jean Francois would be proud of me!
Might try to take a video of the Bedan at work.
Edit- remembered one video that used the Bedan on its side to make a dovetail on a tenon to fit the chuck.
 

RichColvin

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John,

Which YT videos did you find most useful regarding the bedpan bedan (DYAC)?

Rich
 
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Bill Boehme

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..... [Jean-François Escoulen] is reputed to be a wizard with the Bedan tool.......

Almost seventeen years ago when I retired and had this silly notion that I wanted to poke a sharp piece of metal into a spinning chunk of wood, the folks at the local Rockler's suggested in a nice way that I could stand to have some mentoring. They recommended the Woodturners of North Texas as a good place to start. So, the first meeting that I attended, the demonstrator was using a square shanked tool (the name sounded something like "bedpan") and an eccentric chuck that he had designed to create some amazing pieces ... the demonstrator's name ... Jean-François Escoulen. I was hooked.
 
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Bill, and it was downhill from there. I saw the Bedan used as a parting tool, skew, turn coves, etc. Made a groove as a parting tool and then turned a cove. I was intrigued when it was stated the tool is used on the corners. Watched a video of turning an end grain box. The turner said he was going to use a parting tool for the interior of the box. Got a good look at the tool and it was a Bedan tool. Got a piece of round wood on the lathe and plan on experimenting with it. I do want to hone it as shown in the one video.
 

RichColvin

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John,

Thank you for posting the videos. I like the French style of turning, and attending a class at the Escoulen school is on my bucket list. Would love to take classes with Jean-Francois or Jean-Claude Charpignon. Maybe one day.

Kind regards,
Rich
 
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Bill, and it was downhill from there. I saw the Bedan used as a parting tool, skew, turn coves, etc. Made a groove as a parting tool and then turned a cove. I was intrigued when it was stated the tool is used on the corners. Watched a video of turning an end grain box. The turner said he was going to use a parting tool for the interior of the box. Got a good look at the tool and it was a Bedan tool. Got a piece of round wood on the lathe and plan on experimenting with it. I do want to hone it as shown in the one video.
John,
Be careful with end grain hollowing with your bedan. With a regular scraper, I recommend learners have no more than 1/4 of the edge in contact with the wood (the other 3/4 are out in space toward the center of the box.) The bedan is wider than a parting tool and narrower than a scraper, so maybe go for less than 1/3 of the end. It can get WAY too exciting if you engage too much of the end of the tool.

I would also assume you would use the tool with the edge a little lower than the tool rest, as with a scraper. Bevel up would be different and interesting, and honestly I wouldn't know what to expect until I tried it. (maybe I will do that just to see--I made a couple bedans earlier in the year but hadn't thought to use them that way)
 

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would also assume you would use the tool with the edge a little lower than the tool rest, as with a scraper.

I know you mean outside but there was a reference to hollowing about which is inside.
My scraper 101 is below center on the outside above center on the inside

inside I want the edge above center. With a square scraper this accomplishes 3 things.
1. Keeps the bevel from contacting the wood which is usually a catch when scraping
2. Let’s the left top edge be a contact point on the sidewall to make a clean straight sidewall.
3. Related to 2 keeps the bevel from pushing the tool away from the sidewall
 
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Nope. I angle the scraper down on the inside, too. The edge is slightly above centerline, and the tool rest is raised a bit from where it is for the outside. I suspect we're saying the same thing but a little differently.
 
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John,
Be careful with end grain hollowing with your bedan. With a regular scraper, I recommend learners have no more than 1/4 of the edge in contact with the wood (the other 3/4 are out in space toward the center of the box.) The bedan is wider than a parting tool and narrower than a scraper, so maybe go for less than 1/3 of the end. It can get WAY too exciting if you engage too much of the end of the tool.

I would also assume you would use the tool with the edge a little lower than the tool rest, as with a scraper. Bevel up would be different and interesting, and honestly I wouldn't know what to expect until I tried it. (maybe I will do that just to see--I made a couple bedans earlier in the year but hadn't thought to use them that way)
Hollowing was done with another tool. The parting tool/Bedan was to clean up and square the bottom of the box. I like to experiment with tools. Spent some time regrinding tools and trying them on a piece of wood. I had a round nose scraper in my HF set. I ground the end and left side to hollow out the center. I also added a tiny bit of negative grind on the top of the tool.
 
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John,
Be careful with end grain hollowing with your bedan. With a regular scraper, I recommend learners have no more than 1/4 of the edge in contact with the wood (the other 3/4 are out in space toward the center of the box.) The bedan is wider than a parting tool and narrower than a scraper, so maybe go for less than 1/3 of the end. It can get WAY too exciting if you engage too much of the end of the tool.

I would also assume you would use the tool with the edge a little lower than the tool rest, as with a scraper. Bevel up would be different and interesting, and honestly I wouldn't know what to expect until I tried it. (maybe I will do that just to see--I made a couple bedans earlier in the year but hadn't thought to use them that way)
Dean, here is the link for the end grain box. You have to tolerate or skip the ads at the beginning. I fudge and start the hollowing with a Forstner bit.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVZYvKeqOwE
 
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That's a pretty clear video on basic box making. I have 2 comments from making dozens of boxes and teaching others.

First, I decide the size and proportions (and shape) of the box before I start cutting. To get the result I want, I hollow the top and bottom to match the outside dimension, rather than cutting the box off wherever the inside dictates, as shown in the video.

Second, the demonstrator is very good at estimating tenon/opening sizes, but the method for fitting top to bottom that he shows will not work so well for someone just learning box making. The fit will also change as the wood relaxes or dries after the box is made. For these reasons, I would recommend that you hollow both top and bottom before you go to work fitting the parts together, and you should leave it tighter than you will want in the finished product until the parts have had a few days to move. Then put the parts back on the lathe and fit the joint. That means you have to leave the tenon on at least one side. BTW, unless there is some insurmountable reason, I strongly recommend you adjust the tenon of the join to fit the already made recess, rather than trying to adjust the recess.

I would also recommend beginners use their tail stock as long as possible when the parts are stuck together at the joint, for sanding the outside and finishing the top of the top. Putting a little donut of wood or plastic on the tailstock will prevent the point from putting a deep hole in the top.
 
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Thanks for the info. My cherry wood is dry as it's been in the shop for several years. BTW, I see where people say to dry wood for a year or two. I might not live long enough to turn it!
 
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