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Walnut oil curing on Poplar

Randy Anderson

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I recently made a set of 8 coffee mug tumblers for someone that ordered them. I used dry poplar and per my standard routine used walnut oil. After a few days they still feel a bit oily and leave a thin film on your fingers when you handle them. I've wiped them down several times, brought them inside the house where it's warmer and drier. I'm used to oil taking different times on different woods to soak in and not feel oily. Some can take a day, others a few days or longer. I believe sunlight helps the cure process but this time of year that's been scarce here. I often put bowls in my shop on a table that gets sunlight.

Any tips or advice on helping the oil cure? I need to deliver them in a couple of days. Could it be something about poplar? Friend of mine suggested short cycles in the microwave? Put back on lathe, reverse turn with a cloth to generate a little heat to maybe burnish it in? A little warm air from my heat gun?
 
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I found the same situation with Poplar and Mahoney’s Walnut oil. My first experience was a few months ago when I applied W.O directly to a platter and smeared it around with gloved hands until it no longer absorbed the oil. I wiped it down with clean paper towels for about a week and I would find oil on the surface where my fingers made contact with the wood, very little residue was on the towels. I then tried heat from buffing with a clean buffing wheel, heat gun, and direct sun for 2-3 hours at a time. The sun and/or time did appear to mute the slight green streaks of the wood to a more pleasant brown. It took 5-6 weeks before it appeared to be dry. The next platter I applied the oil to a cotton cloth and then twice around both sides and a wipe down after 20-30 minutes. Nothing other than an occasional wipe down and it took about 2 weeks before the oil stopped appearing under finger pressure. I found that Melaleuca behaves similarly with regards to time. Podocarpus, White oak, Sycamore and Liquid Amber take a few days to be what I would call dry.
 
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The oil "cures" through oxidation, and about the only thing you can do to speed that up is to keep them in a warm place that gets plenty of air movement. If you have forced air heat in your house, that is probably enough air movement. I've read that some will put a fan on items to help with the oxidation, but doubt that really helps unless there is zero air movement where the item is sitting.
 
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I have never had a problem with Mahoney's walnut oil not curing quickly. I always use it while the piece is on the lathe and burnish with a paper towel. I have used it on hundreds of rolling pins and salad bowls and have never had a complaint
 

Randy Anderson

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Heading out to the shop shortly to mount and burnish them a bit with a soft cloth. Being in the warm dry house has helped a bit. I think normally I wouldn't notice the extra time these pieces are taking since they would cure for a few days in my shop and then go into my storage cabinet. These are an order for Christmas so the clock is ticking. Gloves? I get it all over my hand when using it. My hands get really dry in the winter in my shop and it seems to help them.
 
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A couple years ago I had the same problem on a Walnut bowl and platter. Opened a fresh can of La Tourangelle walnut oil, applied, and it didn't want to cure for days. After about a week I thought maybe a little heat would help resolve the situation. Turned our oven on around 160deg and put them in there for a couple hours...it cured the walnut oil, but resulted in a crack in a beautiful knot that was the centerpiece of the bowl :(

Used the exact same can of walnut oil a year later (so no longer fresh) on an oak bowl and it cured up beautifully..

Sorry, no good recommendations for you Randy. I hate being under the gun for a needed occasion and having to deal with finish issues...been there many times (in my case usually procrastination).
 

Randy Anderson

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Always good to know you're not alone in having unexpected and unexplained issues. I put them on the lathe, gave them a good buffing at about 400 rpm with a grey scotch brite pad, lots of residue on the pads, then a good buffing with a soft shop cloth until I could feel a good bit of warmth under my fingers. They're better but still get some oil film on my fingers. They're in the house in front (not too close to get hot) of a small space heater with a fan. Will see what happens. I'll try and delay delivery until this Saturday and hopefully they'll improve. If not I'll just explain to them the situation, it's not permanent (I hope) and it will be fine over time. In the meantime don't set them down on your favorite tablecloth. It's my standard finish so very familiar with using it and have a number of items I've done since then that are now fine, no oily feel at all.
 
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I have found that putting the bowl, or what ever, in a bright sunny window helps. Rotate it periodically to put the shady side in the sun.
 

Randy Anderson

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Putting in sunlight is my usual routine but it's been overcast, rainy and very cold here since I started them. Some sunshine today so maybe it'll help.
 

Randy Anderson

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My wife just suggested I look at getting one. Looking on amazon I see lots of them for fingernails and sanitizers but not sure what I should be searching for either.

After a bit of looking I'm seeing plant grow lights. My neighbor has some of these. Not sure if that's the right solution. Ones I see say UV free. UV lamps/bulbs come with warnings to leave the room and only use when no people present.

There are a few other posts here on the topic - sorry for creating another. General take away from them is sunlight and warmth are key to the curing process. Nothing specific to poplar which is what I was primarily focused on.
 
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I generally dry my wet blanks on a wire shelf. Once, I put an incandescent bulb under some oiled bowls to see if that would help. It did. I am guessing that if you have one of the freezer type drying kilns, that would work. Moving air and a little bit of heat. I would be careful with direct sun light. Winter time, not much of an issue. In the summer time, it can get really hot in the windows...

Ron, I think that bowl with the knot in it was bound to crack off of the knot. It was not a matter of if, but when. The oven speeded it up a bit. I do know if you leave the light on in the oven, that will raise the inside temp up to about 80 degrees, which is great for raising bread.

robo hippy
 
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robo - you're probably right, I just loved the grain and chatoyance of the piece and couldn't throw it out. It's a shallow bowl that we've used it to hold bunches of banana's in the kitchen for a couple of years. Time for another coat of wax and buff it looks likebowl.jpg
 
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I have had good success with curing walnut oil in my kitchen oven. The 'warming' function produces something around 160 degrees. 4 hours ought to do it but on occasion it might need another session. I have found both Drs Woodshop and Mahoney's oil needs this --- I think it depends more on how heavy the soaking is compared to which brand you use. I have not had any issues with cracking.
 

Randy Anderson

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Better today after sitting on the dining room table with some sunlight. Will put on the floor in front of the space heater overnight - not too close to get hot. Don't have to deliver until Saturday so I have another day. Absorbent paper under them to try and wick some out of the bottom end grain. Your house works different than mine - no way my wife would agree to me putting my stuff in the oven. At this point I'm about convinced it's something about poplar. I had to buy a piece from the local wood shop. Can't remember the last time I bought wood but I didn't have enough dry stock to make 8 of them. I hate buying wood when I have it piled up out in my barn.
 
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I've had a half dozen occasions where oil would seep back out of the wood for a while. If it's related to the type of wood, then it happens with more wood than poplar. Our local poplar is a true poplar rather than your tulip poplar, so it could be different, but I don't put oil on our poplar as I don't like the look. It seemed to me that it was a result of putting oil on 'until saturated', then repeating a second time, which suggests it was too much oil. I've reduced the amount of oil I put on to a good, thorough, single application, and not had a problem since. The resulting finish looks good and seems to last, so the lesser amount apparently is adequate.

I appreciate the suggestions on speeding up curing. That's another problem I've had with oil finishes, so thanks.
 
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Interesting to read the different accounts of how fast walnut oil (prepolymerized Dr Woodshop or Mahoney’s) “dries” with different wood types and application methods.

These wo’s actually cure very slowly. Putting less oil in the wood does 2 things - there is less of it and it can oxidize more quickly, and the wood is not saturated, so the oil is able to move away from the surface, giving the perception it is “dry”.

Try this as a test - place a few drops on a small non porous surface (I used small clear plastic container lids) and place somewhere it wont be disturbed for a few months. Mine took about 3 months to actually cure - in my home office with steady temp and humidity. Never tried heating it - that would be a worthwhile experiment.
 
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I have had good success with curing walnut oil in my kitchen oven. The 'warming' function produces something around 160 degrees. 4 hours ought to do it but on occasion it might need another session. I have found both Drs Woodshop and Mahoney's oil needs this --- I think it depends more on how heavy the soaking is compared to which brand you use. I have not had any issues with cracking.
Michael passed the "walnut oil oven tip" on to me some time ago and it has worked for me very nicely. This is the only way that I can get a reliable cure on a walnut oil coated vessel before I die of old age. While we are at it...I have tested it over and over and I see no difference in Mahoney's oil and La Tourangelle Roasted Walnut Oil (bought at Walmart at a great price savings). I now use the Drs Woodshop oil products and they are a different kettle of fish. I get a good reliable cure with his products and I find the friction cure technique on salad bowls (that he explains in his videos) a great finish.
 

Dennis J Gooding

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Better today after sitting on the dining room table with some sunlight. Will put on the floor in front of the space heater overnight - not too close to get hot. Don't have to deliver until Saturday so I have another day. Absorbent paper under them to try and wick some out of the bottom end grain. Your house works different than mine - no way my wife would agree to me putting my stuff in the oven. At this point I'm about convinced it's something about poplar. I had to buy a piece from the local wood shop. Can't remember the last time I bought wood but I didn't have enough dry stock to make 8 of them. I hate buying wood when I have it piled up out in my barn.

I believe that light, not heat, is the best route to curing walnut oil. I would suggest that you forego the overnight heating and instead let it sit under the most intense light that you can find, preferably a UV light or a high color temperature light. I ran an experiment a few years ago using three supermarket walnut oils plus Mahoney's walnut oil. I saturated pairs of strips of paper towel in each of the oils. One of each pair was hung in a dark closet. The others were hung in a south-facing window that got partial direct sunlight. After three days, all of the strips hung in the window were crisp, indicating that the oil had polymerized. The strips hung in the closet were still limp and oily after 3 months.
 
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Randy, I'm curious as to what kind of finish surface you're trying to get from walnut oil. I've always considered walnut oil, at least the Mahoney walnut oil I've used, as a soft finish with basically no shine. When you started this post I had a couple pieces from walnut (coincidentally) about ready to finish. So Thursday morning I decided to use walnut oil on them just because I wanted to see how long it would take them to cure. My process is to put the oil on heavy with a paper towel and keep rubbing it around for a few minutes. Then I let them sit for about 20 minutes. And last I rub it off with several paper towels, rubbing it hard to remove as much of the oil as possible until I'm not getting hardly any oil on the paper towel. And btw, that's per Mike Mahoney's directions. Then I just let it sit there until last night. Oil on around 8am and by 8pm I was able to take a photo of the two pieces without it leaving any oily residue on my photo tent. I don't think you ever get a 'hard' finish with walnut oil unless it's some variety with something added to it. That's why it's important to rub it down so well. Any residual might soak into the wood eventually but it will take quite a while. Here's the two pieces I'm talking about. They feel nice to hold already this morning and if anything they might need more oil over time.walnut jar.JPG Walnut with spoon.JPG
 
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Michael passed the "walnut oil oven tip" on to me some time ago and it has worked for me very nicely. This is the only way that I can get a reliable cure on a walnut oil coated vessel before I die of old age. While we are at it...I have tested it over and over and I see no difference in Mahoney's oil and La Tourangelle Roasted Walnut Oil (bought at Walmart at a great price savings). I now use the Drs Woodshop oil products and they are a different kettle of fish. I get a good reliable cure with his products and I find the friction cure technique on salad bowls (that he explains in his videos) a great finish.

please elaborate on Drs woodshop products beingg a “different kettle of fish”. Comparing the same product as Mahoney’s oil or different products?
 

Randy Anderson

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Curtis, very nice work. The finish you show is what I get with walnut oil and is what I'm after on my bowls. Really not interested in a shiny, glossy look. I do find some woods will get a bit of a sheen when I buff it with a grey scotchbrite pad as the last step. I've always liked the "looks like wood, feels like wood" outcome. Smooth but not plastic feel. Most of what I do is natural edge so it fits the character I think. Your process is similar to mine and I've used it on many many pieces without issue. Yes, sometimes it takes a few days for it to cure and not leave a bit of film on your hands or a ring on a piece of paper but nothing like I've experienced with these last items. I've since put walnut oil on several bowls in my shop - no issue, ready to go. I'm leaning toward something unique about the poplar but just a guess.
 
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This side of The Pond there are no walnut oils made/marketed specifically for wood finishing.
Many woodturners use plain walnut oil from discount stores. I have experienced mixed results with that, primarily with (lack of) hardening.
To avoid antioxidants in the oil (vitamin E around here) I went for an organic oil and my problems disappeared.
As for application, I learned from an old gunstock maker only to use a very thin layer right from the start: Wipe a thin layer on and basically rub off as much as you can again. Working that way, I can add the next layer after 24 hours.
 
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I've never used walnut oil, only pure tung oil, and in the last 10 years or so, also the Tried and True linseed oil products. I do not know the characteristics, benefits, or weaknesses of walnut oil.

Tung oil will let me know every time when I've applied too much, even if I have buffed the daylights out of it while still lathe mounted. Porous woods will be the worst. And every can of T&T has a warning label on the lid to only use very light coats. (Application instructions are at the website)

I'm going to buck the instructions of every manufacturer and user of every type of plant-based oil finishes available that says to flood the surface. Don't. Plant oils are plant oils, the differences being how fast they cure (when raw, all cure relatively slowly, and some may not cure fully at all) and the color they impart. My advice for every type of plant oil finish will be to apply only a very light coat, allow it to sit a few minutes, and then buff it off aggressively- some rag pressure making heat while it spins on the lathe at a medium speed. "But, but, but..." Hey, if for some reason you feel this isn't effective, it's oil, slather on some more, as heavy as you'd like.

Multiple light coats (2-3) applied one per day as I described should net the final result you seek, and with less of an enduring oily mess in the days/weeks to follow.

I would suggest T&T Danish oil for these food contact pieces, it is pure polymerized (heat, not metallic driers) linseed oil free of solvents. Their Original is the same oil with some beeswax, and the Varnish oil has some pine resin for a light surface build. No metals, no solvents. Apply per the instructions and be done with it.
https://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/products/
 
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please elaborate on Drs woodshop products beingg a “different kettle of fish”. Comparing the same product as Mahoney’s oil or different products?
Sure. The Doctor makes a bunch of fine products but I use one of his products called "Walnut Oil and Wax Woodturning Finish" on salad bowls and it is applied as a friction finish. He has a patented process where the carnauba wax is able to be applied without using solvents...so it ends up being a simple applied friction polish where the walnut oil is saturated into the wood and the carnauba is melted for a nice satiny finish via friction. He says that it is food safe and it is finished in one application on the lathe. No waiting around for something to dry...and sweet mercy I like that. Also, I've been using it long enough in salad bowls that I can tell you that it touches-up very easily in just minutes using whatever walnut oil is on hand and a quick buff with a paper towel. As far as the rest of your question, I think that the other two walnut oils that we are discussing are straight heat-treated oils...and like I said previously, the only way that I have ever got a consistent dry using them is by putting them in the oven overnight as a low temp (Michael Nathal relayed this technique to us a couple of years ago). Also as I said previously, I can't tell the difference between Mahoney's oil and La Tourangelle Roasted Walnut Oil (that I buy at Walmart). I'm probably missing something here but both of them appear to be heat-treated oils (allergy kindness) and I absolutely see no difference in their drying times, wear, or anything else...except their price.
 
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Michael Meredith, hope I spelled that correctly, is the Doctor, and has a PHD in chemistry. His process with the carnuba wax he calls 'micro aggregated', and he explained it to us at demonstrations, but, simply, it does allow the carnuba wax to go on and spread evenly without heat. I do like the finish I get it better than what I did with Mike Mahoney's product. I think part of that is that the wax seals in the oils better, so they may take the same time to dry, but I don't get bleeding out days after applying. Not sure if there are other technical differences or not. I guess another reason I go for the Doctor's products is he is also from Oregon.... If you get a chance to see him demo, he is interesting, and he does a good job of dumbing it down enough for the average person to make sense of, though I can't repeat all of the explanations.

robo hippy
 

Randy Anderson

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Final update - I've been able to delay delivery of them until today. Oil curing has made progress and is acceptable now for something recently oiled. Just taking FAR longer than anything I've every put oil on. Not the weather I think since I've oiled a number of bowls since these were made and no issues and I've kept these in a controlled environment. Also developed another issue. The cups didn't fit all the way down into the sleeves. I test fit every one of them before I take it off the lathe so I know they were turned to fit easily. These are 12oz coffee cup sleeves. They fit a standard paper coffee cup. I use them in my shop to avoid ceramic cups piling up in my shop sink, or getting broken. I started selling them at local markets after folks saw them in my shop and liked them. Cups are very cheap on amazon in packs of 120 or so. I put handles on the ones for myself but most buyers don't want handles. I came into the shop this morning and surprise - the cups fit well into the holders now. My conclusion is the oil swelled the wood just enough to cause them to not fit correctly. As it has cured/dried they've gotten closer to original size. The rim is thin and fits around the top of the cup so a little swelling would go a long way.

My takeaway - poplar is different and oil on kiln dried poplar takes very little to be effective. Too much and it saturates in and will take too long to cure. Thanks for all the info here and interesting to see the back and forth on oil types and options. I still have about 1/2 gallon of Mahoney's but next time I might try something else mentioned here.
 

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