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Minimizing spindle vibration

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I've been making spatulas lately, with handles tapering down to as little as 3/8" and overall lengths up to about 14". If I mount the pieces between centers, which gives me more flexibility for shaping and centering, I tend to get a lot of vibration when I'm working the slenderest part of the spindle, usually right at the midpoint.

I've gotten around this by holding the headstock end (which becomes the blade of the spatula) in my pin-jaw chuck, but the jaw alignment requires the pieces to be milled symmetrically before I put them on the lathe or I can't center the handle end on the tailstock live center. Since I use a lot of very random wood, I'd love it if I didn't have to put extra time into careful milling before turning.

I've tried various hand-holds to support the back or underside of the spindles while cutting (I use either a skew or detail gouge). If you know of any spindle technique videos that address this problem, could you provide a link or pointer? I'm not looking for steady-rest recommendations, just information on how to properly support a spindle while hand cutting.
Thanks!
Kalia
 

hockenbery

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A couple of things to check

too much tailstock pressure will cause the spindle to flex. This is probably the issue since 3/8 is not thin.

I like to keep the hefty part towards the drive center and turn from the tailstock toward the headstock.

I also put my forefinger under the spindle where I am cutting it. This may not work if the spatulas blade is too close.

also nothing wrong with gripping the blade with the Chuck.
This is a good video of turning a thin spindle. Although for the goblet the base is in a Chuck.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7se6hIfivA
 

john lucas

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You already tried my number one suggestion which is to hold the large end in a chuck. Perhaps you could use wedges or some other thing to move the blade so the handle is centered. My other tip is to lighten up on the tailstock pressure. I loosen the tailstock until the live center quits rotating and then tighten it just enough to make it spin. That and using my fingers to support shaft on the backside while I make the cuts. Also it's important to use as little pressure on the bevel as possible. If you burn your fingers to reduce the chatter thats telling you that you have too much pressure in the bevel. A steady rest is also an option but it doesn't have to be complicated. Here is one the old guys used to use. I built on years ago when I had to make a bunch of long thin spindles and it works.
 

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Dave Landers

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Look for videos (or a demo) by Cindy Drozda - she doesn't have too many "how to / demo" videos, but she has some about using her gouges that do show her technique and how she uses her hands to support the work and hold the gouge.

I'm in the "chuck with pin jaws" camp. I find that lets me loosen up the tailstock pressure so it's not compressing the spindle - it doesn't have to hold the blank against the drive center. But you're right that you have to have reasonably dimensioned stock or else the runout at the tailstock end is too much. I will often turn (between centers) a round bit on the chuck end, just to avoid dealing with how terribly inaccurate my old table saw is.

I did Eli Avirsera demo at SWAT a couple years ago. He used a string steady rest for a really long, thin spindle. Basically wax-coated string wrapped around the spindle. He had made a sort of cup with nails to support the string, just used tape to secure the ends of the string, and that cup fit in the tailstock. So he could pull the spindle in tension against the pin-jaws.
I've never tried it, but am keeping that in my "bag of tricks" to hopefully pull out someday.

Here's a sketch I made at the time
stringsteady.jpeg
 
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I've been wondering whether I was using too much tailstock pressure. I'll try backing off a bit and see if that helps. And thanks for the video of Rudy Lopez. He's such a great demonstrator, and his little clothespin steadyrest is freakin' brilliant. It's not applicable to what I'm doing, but I still love it. I saw him do a version of this demo for the online symposium this year.
 
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Many skilled tuners that do a lot of fine spindle work usually use a finger on the back side of the spindle to support fine cuts with a skew. Watch a few videos were they
turn finials for ornaments and you will see several techniques used for the final finish cuts on these delicate pieces. Finesse is the word that best describes these skills.
 
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Many skilled tuners that do a lot of fine spindle work usually use a finger on the back side of the spindle to support fine cuts with a skew. Watch a few videos where they turn finials for ornaments and you will see several techniques used for the final finish cuts on these delicate pieces. Finesse is the word that best describes these skills.

Mike, can you recommend any specific ones? I'm trying to sort out hand positions for making long, smooth cuts with a skew or gouge while also stabilizing the spindle, and I keep getting in my own way. Either I can't see what I'm doing or I can't see where I've been . Either way, it makes for bad lines.
 

hockenbery

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this is a video clip from an ornament demo that I put a clip on YouTube

you can see how I support the finial as I turn it.
I work most of the final on the right before turning the hanging ball on the headstock side
Then cut the finial end free. At the very end I adjusted the tailstock pressure I think I backed off a quarter turn because it felt too tight.
I saw off the end on the hanging ball.

in the demo I use mostly the hand under the tool rest for support so the camera could see it.
The thumb holds the tool on the tool rest.
Finger supports the spindle.

I watched cabachon finial clip
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Z48DmFlL4
 
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Cindy Drozda probably has the most interesting tool-hand-wood technique. She has several DVDs and also does some inexpensive interactive remote demos, either of which should allow you to watch her hands at the tool rest. I don't know if she does long thin spindles, but if not, her finial demos would be applicable. cindydrozda.com
 

john lucas

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One thing I find helps is having a thinner tool rest so you can get your fingers under it to support the thin spindle. I purchased a special rest from Robust that has their long mini rest welded to a 1" bar so I can use it on my Powermatic. I use that rest more than any other for all my turnings. I haven't looked to see if he offers this now but probably will as a custom option. String steady's aren't really meant to support the kind of work your doing. They are mostly used to keep vibration and wobble to a minimum on really thin long spindles. I made 3 for a Trembler style project many years ago and they just hang on the wall. Haven't used them since.
 
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Another thing that causes spindle vibration is too much pressure on the bevel rub. "The bevel should rub the wood, but the wood should not know it." No clue as to who said that. My whole view on bevel pressure for spindles changed after watching Ashley Harwood turn one of her finials for her sea urchin ornaments. I don't think she even used her finger as a steady rest. That is how little bevel pressure you need. Difficult concept to get around, more so for me as a bowl turner. I can do the one handed push cuts on bowls, but need a lot of work on the skew. After watching Ashley, I told her, "I need to go home and work on my dainty skills."

robo hippy
 

Dennis J Gooding

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Kalia, if you are making multiple items with a standard diameter at the end of the handle, there is a very effective technique for increasing the rigidity of the turning. It involves making a slip chuck that screws onto the threaded nose of a Oneway or other similarly equipped live center into which the handle will slip snugly. These are easily turned, bored and tapped on a wood lathe from aluminum rod stock. For more details and some pictures, see the following posting in the Tutorials and Tips Forum:
An Engineer’s Look at Turning Slender Wood Spindles
 
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