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Your favorite sandpaper for hand sanding?

Roger Wiegand

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(I posted this at SMC, but thought I'd ask here as well, apologies to those who see it both places)

I need better sandpaper for hand sanding on the lathe. I use the blue or green disks from Vince's for power sanding and they work quite well for me. They are also good when hand held, bit it doesn't seem to make sense to pay for small disks with velcro backing when I only need a plain paper.

A couple years ago I bought the bargain box from Klingspor and have been working my way through it, hating every minute. The stuff I got is on a way too heavy backing, won't hold a curve (cracks to a sharp angle when you fold it over), and doesn't last for beans. Well, it was real cheap.

I use Abranet disks on my ROS mostly, for turnings I've found it to be overly flexible and slow. It really doesn't seem to like it if you push too hard and heat it up.

So what have you found that you really like? I want extremely uniform grit (hate that one deep scratch), as fast as possible, it should last long enough to sand a modest size piece with a few square inches of paper, and it should be fast (yes, I said that twice). Within limits, I don't much care how much it costs if it gets the sanding done sooner rather than later with a great result.

I only need anything below 120 grit on bad days, but want to go up to at least 800. (Abralon seems good for the very high grits.)
 
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Forgot to add this over at SMC, but I did have Vince punch out some 5 inch discs for my Festool ROS, and their special hole pattern. Way better than anything else out there. I did have some of those rolls of yellow abrasives from Klingspoor, but ran out of them and never replaced them. I want that blue stuff from Vince in sheet and belt stock....

robo hippy
 

Tom Gall

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Carborundum "Premier Red" AO Dri-Lube sheets. I've been using these for over 20 years and have been happy with them. I buy them (rarely) in boxes of 100 per grit - #120 thru #1000 (available #80 - #1200). My local source dried up a long time ago and these can be a little difficult to source. My last purchase ( awhile ago) was from an auto supply company in CT or MA. Prices have more than doubled since I started using these.:( A quick search came up with this link for one source .... I would search around a little more to see if you can get better prices.
http://www.abrasivesupply.com/9in_x_11in_Aluminum_Oxide_Waterproof_Paper_Sheets_s/578.htm
 
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I do have to research new sources.

Having a handful of lighter years in the workshop, it has been taking me awhile to get through my last Klingspor bargain box. Like Roger said, the stiff X-weight cloth is way too stiff for turning. But I really like their much more compliant J-weight cloth abrasive, right up to 400 grit aluminum oxide. It is flexible to even the finest details, and tears easily by hand.

I just checked their site. This yellow box contains a 50-yard x 2" wide J-weight cloth backed of various grits. Pricy at $80-90 per roll for this 2" width, but I think it would take me a long time to get through a box. Half a football field long. Buy it with a friend to make it more economical. If you are able to follow backwards at the site, you'll find boxes of different widths, narrower and wider.
https://buy.klingspor.com/e2wShoppingCatalog.aspx?
parentId=3100531591&parentLink=2100530022:3100531468:3100531590:3100531591


They do still have bargain boxes of different varieties, but you'd have to contact them about boxes with only J-weight. Maybe their "woodturner's bargain box" has more J-weight? ($20-35, 10 and 20 pounds.)
https://www.woodworkingshop.com/product/bb00006/

Steve.
 
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I've been using these high quality 1.5 inch x 25 yards (or 50 yards) J-Flex Klingspor rolls for the past 15 years or so. Just tear off what you need from the roll and go: https://www.woodworkingshop.com/category.aspx?id=22&f1=1-1/2"+X+25

Thanks Ed. In all the looking and backtracking I did at the Klingspor site, I never came across those ones. An easier $$ pill to swallow with these vs. the ones I linked. Within your link, you can back up on the size spec and pick different roll widths and lengths. Don't pick a grit, that way all will show. Now I need to do an inventory of my old grab box.

Theirs is definitely not a phone-friendly site, probably best on a computer.

Steve.
 
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If I understand correctly, aluminum oxide is best for sanding wood - it comes in several grades.
If you sanding finish, silicon carbide is the better choice - it is sharper and requires less pressure - Eagle Abrasives is silicon carbide and is available from TurningWood.com
If you're sanding on a running lathe, the aluminum oxide is probably best.

Whichever you're using, a good shoe-brush will reduce the clogging. Simply swipe the wood a few times and then swipe the shoe brush
 
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Just a thought about Klingspor: They were founded over 125 years ago, in Germany as a supplier of sandpaper for the furniture making industry. They make too many kinds of sandpaper for me to count. But, I would recommend that if you wish to find the right sandpaper/abrasive cloth/screen from them...that you can actually call and speak to someone there, and they can point you in the direction of their best product for your uses. I recent years ( best. 2006?) they started building retail stores that are in the same vein as Rockler, or Woodcraft. Very good stores staffed by real woodworkers and woodturners. I think they only have 3 or 4 stores thus far. They seem to be cautious about expansion. They price match on major tools, and have very customer friendly policies. And...they are my only local resource for almost anything woodturning....:)
 
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Whichever you're using, a good shoe-brush will reduce the clogging. Simply swipe the wood a few times and then swipe the shoe brush

I keep a rubber sandpaper cleaning block right at the lathe. "Sand" the block with a few strokes with my piece of sandpaper and it cleans it up nicely for more work.

Steve.
 
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I don't know that this helps Roger with his needs, but my favorite for hand sanding are the 3" hook and loop Abranet knockoffs from Woodturner's Wonders. I find the hook backing comfortable on my fingers and the size is just right. They conform to curves well and it's very easy to blow the swarf out right into the DC. They may be too flexible for Roger's needs. @Emiliano Achaval , is the Abranet roll you mentioned easy to tear? I'll have to price compare.

I also like and use the J weight rolls from Klingspor a lot. These are available up to p600. At p800 the backing changes to something stiffer. Klingspor will sell any length you want and I bought 30 foot rolls.

There are two Klingspors retail outlets. There is Klingspor Abrasives, Inc ( www.klingspor.com ), which is directd to commercial customers. The other is Klingspor's Woodworking Shop ( www.woodworkingshop.com ), which is directed at hobby customers. I have a commercial account with Klingspor Abrasives, Inc. (easily set up) and buy through my local rep who has been very helpful both with sorting out their offerings and getting rational quantities.
 
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Norton 3X sandpaper works well for me. I've used it for hand sanding for many years. I believe Norton has rebranded it, maybe upgrading at the same time and now call it Prosand. I buy the 20 sheet Job Pack. Rockler and Woodcraft sell at premium prices. A couple of times Lee Valley has sold a bundle of 5 job packs, different grits, for a very good price. Plenty of other places sell it too. USPaintSupply dot com is much cheaper than Rockler/Woodcraft if you buy enough to overcome shipping charges.

One drawback vs your request is that they only make up to 400 grit. I use 3M paper from Home Depot or Abralon for higher grits.
 
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Here's an interesting site with explanation and a comparison chart of N. American abrasive paper grits and European, and even the obsolete 0 (ought) grit system. I found it because a friend gave me some ancient 3M garnet cloth-backed sandpaper, grit 2/0, from his dad's basement, which I found is comparable to 100 grit N. American.
http://www.woodbin.com/doc/sandpaper-grit-chart/

Based solely on the statements of this site, the European grit system has a tighter tolerance on grit grading, so the finer grit papers are more consistent in the grit size bound to the backing material. I'm sticking with the Euro stuff then (Klingspor for me), even if 3M (Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing) is in my hometown, and they invented sandpaper.

Steve.
 

odie

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The two things not mentioned so far for final step sanding doesn't involve sandpaper at all.

1- grabbing a handful if the shavings from the wood you just turned and working it on the surface of the spinning wood like you would with the sandpaper. Make sure it has no bark or thick shavings which may mar the surface, use those light, fluffy shavings from later stage cutting. Use moderate pressure and keep it moving. I do this with every project as my last grit. It burnishes and polishes, it really doesn't abrade like sandpaper. It will show where you failed with the sandpaper.

2- using a piece of paper grocery bag as your final sanding grit. Probably acts more similar to the shavings trick from above, but I once heard someone say eons ago it is similar to a 2000 grit.

One product I don't use very much anymore is steel wool. I learned that the hard way, using 0000 as the final step on a small ash bowl, the open grain got steel particles embedded into the surface that wouldn't sand out, had to grab a gouge to cut off one more layer, then re-sand.

Steve.
 

Roger Wiegand

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Thanks for all the replies!

I've ordered up the mixed pack of Finkat papers to try. I also sent an email to Indasa asking for their recommendations and almost immediately had a half hour phone call from a very knowledgeable tech rep discussing the differences, advantages and disadvantages of each of their various lines. Just based on customer service I ordered several of their products that seemed most promising for what I'm looking for. Their top line paper (red) stresses durability, their second tier product (white) apparently cuts faster, but with a shorter lifespan. The latter may actually be better for how I use paper at the lathe. He really pitched their foam backed stuff, so I've got some packs of that on the way.

I always have Abranet in the shop, as that's what I use on my ROS. I don't like it so much for turning as the edges are soft and I find it hard to get into narrow Vs without folding them over and softening the shape. I also find that after it's been handled a bit it won't hold a nice curve for sanding in hollows too small to get a finger into. The flexibility is, however, very nice for sanding large smooth curves.
 
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Here's an interesting site with explanation and a comparison chart of N. American abrasive paper grits and European, and even the obsolete 0 (ought) grit system....
http://www.woodbin.com/doc/sandpaper-grit-chart/

It's interesting, but the "0" scale appears to differ from the one used for steel wool and non-woven pads.

Above around 220 grit the CAMI and FEPA scales really diverge. For flatwork where sanding rarely exceeds 220 the difference in scales is often ignored, but for turners it's really important to be clear which scale you're using. While the FEPA scale has a "p" designation, the CAMI is just the number. Unfortunately people get lazy about that "p", so it's often unclear what grit was used. OK, my pet peave, but personally I always try to be explicit about which abrasive system I'm talking about. Actually, I try to avoid CAMI all together.
 
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Good point, @Mark Jundanian, about the different grit designations between the two systems when in discussion. Klingspor uses the P# system on both the J and X weight papers.

Last night I did an inventory consisting of what remained of a couple Klingspor bargain boxes from years past, separating J-weight from X-weight. (I boxed all the X-weight, and brought it to work today and gave it away.) Then I accounted for each grit of the J-weight and found a good supply of grits between about 240-400. I'm going to buy these rolls to fill in some missing grits, in particular at the sub-240 grit, and higher than 400. https://www.woodworkingshop.com/category.aspx?id=22&f1=1-1/2"+X+25 (On the left side of that screen you can change the roll dimension parameters.) They are all Klingspor's "J-Flex" weight cloth, all "P" grit, FEPA European grit standard. I found I have both regular J-weight and some J-Flex, and the J-Flex seems just a bit more flexible than standard J-weight, it really is easily compliant to whatever shape or surface I'm working on, nice stuff. Both J-weights work better for me at the lathe.

Steve.
 

Roger Wiegand

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The Indasa RhinoDry and foam backed pads came today and I have to say it knocked my socks off in the sanding ability and lifetime. I guess I'd forgotten or never known how good sandpaper could be. Unbelievably fast. I was churning out ornaments this afternoon and got through six of them with 2x3" pieces of each grit in less than half the time it had been taking me before it started to slow down-- at each grit there was a big plume of dust coming off-- I found I needed to move much more quickly to not overdo it, which was fine with me. The paper I had been using before was tired after one ornament. The scratch pattern, based on a very small sample, is perfect.

The foam backed paper was great, I'd never used anything like it before. Same abrasive as the plain paper, but much more flexible and conforming to the work. Not perfect for every situation, but something I can see using a lot.

The downside of the plain paper is that it is almost brittle. It cracks badly when bent, so doesn't make smooth curves (if you bend it backwards it actually breaks off). It's not the ultimate answer, but boy is it better than what I've been doing up until now.
 
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I have bought pre cut disks in the 2", 3" and 5" sizes of various kinds.. But I also have velcro backed rolls of Klingspor that is very flexible in 5" wide rolls. I bought 2" hole saw, and ground the teeth off, and sharpened the remaining face of the steel. Then screwed in a bolt of the proper size - that I can use as a striking surface. I placed the rolls on a piece of 3/4" pipe about 4ft. in length, and have a hangar for this assembly. I pull the paper off the roll, up onto the the bench top, where I have a very hard piece of rubber approx. 1 sq. ft. I use a Dead Blow hammer - and punch out disks as needed up to 400 grit. Saves money - not as convenient, but sometimes worth the time, project dependent. Just another option that will work with any brand of sandpaper you like if it is available on rolls.
 
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As I'm placing an order at Klingspor this morning, I came across this Klingnet product. I've never used products like this before, but it looks like it would compare to the Abranet mentioned earlier. They sell 2" x 5 meter long (16.4') rolls for $13.95, grits from 80 to 800. https://www.woodworkingshop.com/category.aspx?id=22&f2=KLINGNET+ROLLS I didn't research to see how it compares to Abranet, I'll leave that to you.

Steve.
 
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Here a little while back I stopped in the local auto store that sold ppg supplies and asked the waht the best sandpaper they had was.They sold me some Autonet hook and loop longboad paper 240g and some Cubitron II 320g longboard hook and loop.Up to this point i was using 3M a/o and klingspor gold.The cubitron 320 removed wood faster than the 180 klingspor.The auto net I wasen't impressed with tryng to hand sand.I alwys left lines following the weave pattern.I had greater sucess with it by cutting little discs and using it on my disc sander pads,no lines then.
 
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