• Beware of Counterfeit Woodturning Tools (click here for details)
  • Johnathan Silwones is starting a new AAW chapter, Southern Alleghenies Woodturners, in Johnstown, PA. (click here for details)
  • Congratulations to Paul May for "Checkerboard (ver 3.0)" being selected as Turning of the Week for March 25, 2024 (click here for details)
  • Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.

Archived David Ellsworth Demo

Joined
Mar 17, 2006
Messages
213
Likes
96
Location
Canton, Connecticut
I recently received an email from the AAW (as I'm sure many of you did) advertising the recent David Ellsworth demo for viewing. As I was not available to view the live demo, I was looking forward to seeing the video. However, I was rather surprised to see that the fee is double what it was for the live event. I emailed the AAW to inquire about the fee and received the following response:

"Think of it as a premium fee for not signing up the first go-around. I’m sure as we go forward with this Masters Series, this will be the rate structure."

I view the doubling of the fee to be a penalty for having a scheduling conflict. I have not seen other professional turners impose a "premium" to view one of their archived demos. In my response to the AAW I suggested that they reassess this fee structure so that anyone who can't attend a live demo, will not be penalized to view it at a later time. I would encourage anyone who views the "premium" fee as I do to contact the AAW and encourage them to be in step with the other professional turners that offer archived demos.
 
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
419
Likes
317
Location
Lexington, KY
When the original sign up was offered, the announcement stated that if you signed up, you would be able to watch it until November 14. I did not intend to watch it live, and did not, but signed up for the $10 fee since I would be able to watch it later at a time of my choice. I have yet to watch it but still have two weeks left.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
411
Likes
249
Location
Millington, TN
I recently received an email from the AAW (as I'm sure many of you did) advertising the recent David Ellsworth demo for viewing. As I was not available to view the live demo, I was looking forward to seeing the video. However, I was rather surprised to see that the fee is double what it was for the live event. I emailed the AAW to inquire about the fee and received the following response:

"Think of it as a premium fee for not signing up the first go-around. I’m sure as we go forward with this Masters Series, this will be the rate structure."

I view the doubling of the fee to be a penalty for having a scheduling conflict. I have not seen other professional turners impose a "premium" to view one of their archived demos. In my response to the AAW I suggested that they reassess this fee structure so that anyone who can't attend a live demo, will not be penalized to view it at a later time. I would encourage anyone who views the "premium" fee as I do to contact the AAW and encourage them to be in step with the other professional turners that offer archived demos.

I was too late for the cutoff to watch the live demo, but have just about decided not to watch the recording because AAW doubled the initial fee. Seemed rather odd for AAW to penalize their supporting members this way. Makes me wonder if David had anything to do with this pricing (getting a fee back on each sale because of his popularity), or if someone on the board is just getting greedy after the seeing the large turnout for the IRD. Either way, AAW’s 200% markup seems out of line as you stated.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
135
Likes
63
Location
Western Ma.
Doubling the fee because you weren’t able to view it live! That’s just not right. I’m not in the habit of signing up for some thing til I’m positive I’ll be available to to view it. Disappointed in the AAW.

"Think of it as a premium fee for not signing up the first go-around. I’m sure as we go forward with this Masters Series, this will be the rate structure.
This response seems like a slap in the face.
 
Joined
Mar 17, 2006
Messages
213
Likes
96
Location
Canton, Connecticut
Karl:
I've had a few communications with an AAW administrative assistant concerning this matter. She tells me that it's the AAW that devised the fee structure for access to the video for those that did not preregister. I also will not pay a penalty to view the video. I think the AAW is misguided in it's fee structure for viewing an archived demo.
 
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Messages
34
Likes
46
Location
Christchurch, New Zealand
Unable to view first showing and thought I might view second but doubling of fee and then our exchange rate another one third more no thanks.
Not trying to foster worldwide learning.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
261
Likes
312
Location
Cameron, Illinois
I could never view it live as out here in the boondocks, I don't have and can't get fast enough download speeds. I was considering picking some of these and viewing later, but even with that, would take me two hours to download and view a one hour presentation. Now to know I will be penalized even more by not pre-registering for something I couldn't watch live anyway, No Thanks!


Disappointed in the AAW.
This response seems like a slap in the face.

Agree! My membership is up for renewal in a couple of months, and seriously considering dropping it. All I'm getting from them right now is a really expensive magazine subscription.
 
Joined
Apr 9, 2020
Messages
20
Likes
4
Location
Summerville, South Carolina
It was my mistake not to register on time for the viewing of David's live edge bowl demo. Doubling the price for members to view it who did not pre-register encourages me to pay closer attention to my calendar. I hope the precedent setting "penalty" does not cost the AAW more in the loss of membership.
 

Bill Boehme

Administrator
Staff member
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Messages
12,886
Likes
5,169
Location
Dalworthington Gardens, TX
Website
pbase.com
All I'm getting from them right now is a really expensive magazine subscription.

Don't forget the forum where we can ask questions and share information ... and occasionally complain about the ten dollars that we didn't spend last week and won't spend this week. :rolleyes: While woodturners, in general, seem to be a frugal lot we don't hesitate much when a new expensive tool promising to be our path to greatness comes along.

The AAW isn't exactly awash with money and it's rather impressive what they accomplish on a very tight budget.

I didn't see the live demo so this is a question for those who did ... if the cost had been $20 instead of $10 would you feel like you got your money's worth? Before seeing the demo would you have decided that $20 was too much to pay for a David Ellsworth demo?

Many years ago the only option for seeing an instructional woodturning video was to buy a VHS tape or a few years later, a DVD ... and most of them were amateur quality. And, they cost a lot more than $20.

A lot of events have a lower early bird price
 
Joined
Jul 10, 2017
Messages
824
Likes
665
Location
Windermere, British Columbia
I think penalizing us members is absolutely wrong. I thought this organization was educational non profit. This sure seems like profit motivated to me. I for one will continue to watch all my zoom demos for $10. And not pay a penalty to watch a rerun of a live event.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
411
Likes
249
Location
Millington, TN
Don't forget the forum where we can ask questions and share information ... and occasionally complain about the ten dollars that we didn't spend last week and won't spend this week. :rolleyes: While woodturners, in general, seem to be a frugal lot we don't hesitate much when a new expensive tool promising to be our path to greatness comes along.

The AAW isn't exactly awash with money and it's rather impressive what they accomplish on a very tight budget.

I didn't see the live demo so this is a question for those who did ... if the cost had been $20 instead of $10 would you feel like you got your money's worth? Before seeing the demo would you have decided that $20 was too much to pay for a David Ellsworth demo?

Many years ago the only option for seeing an instructional woodturning video was to buy a VHS tape or a few years later, a DVD ... and most of them were amateur quality. And, they cost a lot more than $20.

A lot of events have a lower early bird price

At what price point you probably not watch a recorded IRD even from a well known demonstrator? Many professional demonstrators have settled around $10 as a reasonable price for IRDs and any recordings which seems like a reasonable amount to me. Keep in mind not every turner or club is awash in money either. Many of us are paying to be in a club which provides benefits like remote IRDs with professional demonstrators.

AAW response seems like they are punishing those who couldn’t make the IRD by charging them double. This is a good way to lose both sales and some memberships.
 

Bill Boehme

Administrator
Staff member
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Messages
12,886
Likes
5,169
Location
Dalworthington Gardens, TX
Website
pbase.com
I think penalizing us members is absolutely wrong. I thought this organization was educational non profit. This sure seems like profit motivated to me. I for one will continue to watch all my zoom demos for $10. And not pay a penalty to watch a rerun of a live event.

Being penalized suggests that you are made to do something against your will. This is just a free will offer ... you can either take it or leave it. Whatever the rationale for the price structure, I very seriously doubt that there was some unseemly profit motivation. Making such an accusation is not in accord with the forum civil behavior rule.

The income from membership dues don't cover expenses so it is necessary to find ways to make up the difference. One small source of revenue comes from selling logo wear, smocks,books, back issues of American Woodturner, print copies of Woodturning FUNdamentals, DVD's, etc. The average price of the DVD's is about $30 if you're not a member (AAW members get a 33% discount).

I agree with Emiliano about the tone of some of the posts crossing the line. Everybody knows (or should know) the rule about civil behavior. Nuff said.

AAW response seems like they are punishing those who couldn’t make the IRD by charging them double. This is a good way to lose both sales and some memberships.

The best way to effect change is to talk to board members. My experience is that they are very receptive to getting feedback from members.
 

hockenbery

Forum MVP
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
8,591
Likes
4,886
Location
Lakeland, Florida
Website
www.hockenberywoodturning.com
It does cost more to offer the archived.
For the live there is one upload of zoom codes and one emailing to registrants
For the archive add ons there is a daily upload and email. Same manual work repeated many times.

If you think the AAw is wrong to charge more - email or phone a board member.
They react to personal contacts.
It’s you organization trying to manage resources in an effective way...
it’s not some evil group deciding to punish their fellow members.
You elected board members to work on your behalf. Let them know your concerns.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Messages
290
Likes
199
Location
Quad Cities, IL
I'm new to AAW and the forum. In an effort to understand the last comment by Emiliano and Bill B. I went to the AAW website and read the Board meeting minutes for the last six months.
It's clear to me that the Board is doing a great job of navigating this difficult time.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
411
Likes
249
Location
Millington, TN
My apologies. I truly don’t know AAW’s pricing motive besides their response above that seemed to have the opposite affect in making people reconsider the benefits of joining AAW. I will email the board to let them know my thoughts, and try to read the board’s meeting notes to better understand their thoughts.

Please understand asking for $20 to watch one recorded IRD would put my investment in AAW at $80. Like others, I was already having a hard time justifying the $60 on a membership fee for primarily getting the magazine. Started making me wonder if I’d be better off spending my $80 to watch 8 IRDs instead, or just wait around for the great IRDs that my club sponsors for less cost. Obvious others feel differently which is why I wanted to know what others like Bill are willing to pay.

Admins, feel free to erase any of my post that you feel were inappropriate including this one.
 
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
2,432
Likes
1,850
Location
Bozeman, MT
To the Admins:
Thank you for doing this important and largely unappreciated job.

I think all who show up here agree that an online forum is a reasonable place to hold a conversation. Granted, those conversations (not necessarily on this forum) can get off topic and argumentative, sometimes mean spirited, hostile, demeaning, and a whole bunch of unpleasant things. We are very fortunate that this forum does not tend in those directions. Perhaps that's due to the work of you Admins.

At the same time, I would caution you as the Moderators to be very careful about discouraging comments critical of the AAW. Doing so could be interpreted as trying to suppress dissent, and some of the forum members, as is true of people throughout the US, may be very sensitive to the anti-democratic, Big Brother feel of that.

We the participants need to be very careful to avoid appearing to stir up trouble and making an issue bigger than it needs to be. Your suggestion to those with concerns to contact a board member is wise and should give them a more effective outlet for addressing their unhappiness.

Again, thank you for working to ensure a generally pleasant and positive discussion here on the forum.
 

hockenbery

Forum MVP
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
8,591
Likes
4,886
Location
Lakeland, Florida
Website
www.hockenberywoodturning.com
My apologies. I truly don’t know AAW’s pricing motive besides their response above that seemed to have the opposite affect in making people reconsider the benefits of joining AAW. I will email the board to let them know my thoughts, and try to read the board’s meeting notes to better understand their thoughts.

Please understand asking for $20 to watch one recorded IRD would put my investment in AAW at $80. Like others, I was already having a hard time justifying the $60 on a membership fee for primarily getting the magazine. Started making me wonder if I’d be better off spending my $80 to watch 8 IRDs instead, or just wait around for the great IRDs that my club sponsors for less cost. Obvious others feel differently which is why I wanted to know what others like Bill are willing to pay.

Admins, feel free to erase any of my post that you feel were inappropriate including this one.

You can edit or erase your comments if you are uncomfortable with them.
I often get second thoughts about something I have posted in haste.

I actually think it would be better to keep the same price or not offer a catch-up option.
I realize the extra cost and the challenging times for managing the budget.
I had my time on the board. I do let the board know what I think even if they haven’t asked my opinion
 

hockenbery

Forum MVP
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
8,591
Likes
4,886
Location
Lakeland, Florida
Website
www.hockenberywoodturning.com
would caution you as the Moderators to be very careful about discouraging comments critical of the AAW. Doing so could be interpreted as trying to suppress dissent, and some of the forum members, as is true of people throughout the US, may be very sensitive to the anti-democratic,
You have a good point.
I have no moderator role. I think all AAW members feel it is appropriate to discuss AAW actives and policies on the forum.
It is not appropriate to introduce ad-hominem attacks ever.

I personally get irritated when people talk about the AAW as “them” because the AAW is “US” if you are a member.
AAW is run by a board we elected. The board works for us. All board members realize the work for the membership - but in truth there are always nine individuals who have different views on how to best to serve the membership. ( there are also those pesky bylaws, governance documents, and 503-c docs that impose limits an direction on activities.)
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Messages
29
Likes
62
Location
Sodus, New York
Website
www.DragonsRose.studio
I don’t view the doubling of the fee as a penalty, I think of it as testing the market. To be fair, this whole concept of IRD’s is new to the AAW leadership. It is sad they are trying to move to a different beat than the rest of the market, but I expect the free market will send a better message. I will not pay more for a recording than a live interactive event. The potential for interactivity differentiates the live event from the recording.
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
495
Likes
744
Location
Bay Settlement, WI
As Philip Rose points out, they may be testing the market.

By comparison, Glenn Lucas is charging 10 Euro (US$11.62) for a live IRD, or 15 Euro (US$17.44) for live IRD access plus a downloadable recording.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
261
Likes
312
Location
Cameron, Illinois
I would love a downloadable recording that I could watch at my leisure. As mentioned before, I don't have the speed to ever watch one live, and it would take me two hours of stopping, starting and buffering to try to watch a recorded 1 hour demo.
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Messages
29
Likes
62
Location
Sodus, New York
Website
www.DragonsRose.studio
Another take on the concept. Trent Bosch seems to be $10 for live plus a recording, and $10 to purchase the recording after the fact.

ooh, and Phil, please:)

As Philip Rose points out, they may be testing the market.

By comparison, Glenn Lucas is charging 10 Euro (US$11.62) for a live IRD, or 15 Euro (US$17.44) for live IRD access plus a downloadable recording.
 
Back
Top