color: alcohol or water based colors

[Bill T Tucker]

So...looking to glean knowledge from this diverse group. After watching the myriad demos recently available, noticed how a bit of color could enhanced the grain swirl and ripple. Remembering the comment from Phil Irons that plain appearance can be spectacular with a bit of added color, what experience has this group had with the application of "transparent" color...which is best, water based or alcohol based...and why?
thanks

 

[Curt Fuller]

I've commented before that all wood coloring is an experiment with an unknown outcome. There really are no constants. Every aspect is a variable. And no two pieces ever turn out the same. BUT, the results are almost always amazing. Get some color, play with it, and tell us what you think.

 

[Tim Connell]

There are advantages and disadvantages to both, but both will also give great results.

Water is a safer solvent to use, but will raise the grain more and take longer to dry.

Alcohol as a solvent raises the grain much less, dries quicker, but is also a nastier solvent to deal with.

Many, many more pluses, minuses for both, but the differences I listed above are often the reasons that one is chosen over the other.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Some dyes such as TransTint can use either alcohol or water. I've always used alcohol because it dries much faster with less bleeding. Other than that I don't think there is much difference provided that you have raised the grain and sanded off the fuzz before dyeing. I have used the Artisan dyes from Craft Supplies and don't like them. To me, the colors seem weak and drab. My favorite by far are the dyes made by Chestnut. They use alcohol as the solvent and also contains a small amount of shellac to seal the color. I would recommend getting Jimmy Clewes video that covers making a dyed rim platter. That's a great way to get your feet wet with dyes.

 

[Jon Minerich]

Bill, even though I am a relatively new turner, I have played with color on my pieces from the very beginning. In spite of the good natured ribbing I get from the “round and brown” guys in our local club, now almost half of everything I turn has some color. Like Curtiss said, every piece of wood seems to react differently to dyes. That’s why I like using color. You never know what your project will look like, until it is finished. Using color can be challenging and a mystery at the same time.

As Bill B. Mentioned, I also like using Chestnut Stains (that’s the name on the label but they are actually dyes), but I also use Hampshire Sheen Intrinsic colors. Chestnut Stains are alcohol based, vivid, and dry quickly. Intrinsic Colors are water based, have more natural colors, but do take longer to dry. On some “blotchy” woods (pine, birch, and even some maples) the alcohol dyes can give you more consistent results. I personally like the more subdued pallet of Intrinsic Colors. That said, a skillful person can get comparable results from either product.

Now for instruction. I have lost count on the number of videos on coloring that I have watched. My favorite is Martin Sabin-Smith on YouTube. He has several, excellent videos. I highly recommend him. I actually took a class from Jimmy Clewes which was informative and a lot of fun. My dyed rim platter is still sitting on my shelf for all to see. If you really want to get creative and try embellishing along with coloring, Stewart Furini’s YouTube videos are excellent. He is also very entertaining and fun to watch. They are several good books on coloring/dying wood. Just get on Google and you will easily find them. Most focus on flat work but the principles are the same.

You can do a lot or very little with coloring. The possibilities are endless. One last point. Learning coloring is different from learning excellent, technical turning skills, Good turning skills are based on proven techniques and muscle memory (from lots of practice) Coloring is based more on experimentation and creativity. Learning good turning skills can give you predictable results. Learning to color can give many pleasant surprises. Have fun!

 

[Bill Blasic]

I use Acetone as a carrier with my dyes. Doesn't raise the grain, dries fast and passes the smell test (when you can't smell it the dye has been set).

 

[hockenbery]

I use a variety - the alcohol based chestnut.and fiebings black leather dye
Water based airbrush paints and milk paint.

If I want to show the grain the chestnut stains or the transparent airbrush paints.

transparent.
Chestnut Dries quickly, can remove some with alcohol, mixes easily on the work piece.
Difficult to make a sharp edge with the dyes so sharp edges are made by turning through the dyed surface.
Long shelf life.

transparent options.
airbrush paints offer transparent and opaque colors. Dry quickly, easy to use masking for lines. Mixes somewhat easily on the piece. Can be brushed on. Water based acrylics from Golden

not transparent.
fiebings marine core black leather dye. Just turns wood black. Dries quickly. Alcohol based

Milk paint i use with textured or turned surfaces to show layers of color. Water based.

Airbrush paints​

Leather dye​

Milk paint​

​

 

[Richard Coers]

It may be worth noting that alcohol used as a solvent is never pure alcohol. It always has some percentage of water in it. If you really want to pop grain, the best technique is to start with a really dark base color usually black, sand it almost all the way off so only the short grain that absorbed it the most remains, then add other color on top.

 

[Bill T Tucker]

Thanks everyone for great information! This forum is a morning ritual with my coffee and a great way to plant seeds of thought for the day's consideration...some sprout, some get forgotten, and some get pickled Jon...those are exactly the two I was looking at and I'll check out the suggested U-tubes, thanks. Have seen Jimmy's demo and probably should watch again. Al and Richard...beautiful pieces...hope to be there some day.

 

[R Henrickson]

One consideration which hasn't been mentioned here is color-fastness -- will the color remain stable with age? It doesn't much matter what the liquid carrying the coloring agent is, if, for example, nice bright-red decoration degrades to pink or something other than the original. In some discussions this color fastness seems to be linked to the carrier liquid, not nature of the dye. The stability of the coloring agent will determine how your work looks several years from now. You need to be aware of how stable the coloring agent is. That has nothing to do with whether it was suspended in water vs alcohol when you applied it.

 

[Ed Weingarden]

Another consideration that hasn't been mentioned is surface prep before applying the dye. Sanding must be done to remove all tool marks, scratch marks, etc. If not, it doesn't matter what dye or technique you use; you will be disappointed/frustrated with the outcome. Any tool mark or sanding scratch will be accentuated when you put the dye on. What may have been barely noticeable, will now stick out like a sour thumb. Been there, done that.

 

[Bill Boehme]

While we're mentioning other considerations, the color of the wood needs to be taken into consideration. With transparent dyes such as TransTint and Chestnut, the color of the wood will impact the final color because of subtractive coloration. Even a light-colored wood like hard maple is a long way from being white and if you apply blue dye to hard maple the result will be green. After you apply a clear finish the wood will darken a bit and the green will become even darker green. One way around this is to bleach the wood using a mixture of 30% hydrogen peroxide and a strong solution of sodium hydroxide (AKA, household lye). Most woods get a bit darker over time and a few darken considerably so cherry wouldn't be a good choice if you want to use bright primary color dyes.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I use Chestnut Stains and something else you might want to look at is Chroma Craft . The CC is a bit darker but still vibrant colors in smaller bottles making it less expensive to start, actually about 60% of the cost of Chestnut. Nick Agar has his name on it but I do not know if he owns any of the company.