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Denatured Alcohol

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Jan 21, 2020
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Been wanting to try OB's shine juice so finally decided to get the ingredients and mix some up, maybe even experiment with the formula a bit as I've seen some do on You Tube with what they say are good results. Anyway, I found the Shellac and BLO but Denatured Alcohol was nowhere to be found. No one would even ship it to me. I'm told that it's outlawed in California. My question is that, REI was willing to ship me Alcohol Stove Fuel, 67% methanol and from my reading that is what Denatured Alcohol is and used for, among other things.
Can this "Alcohol Stove Fuel," as it's labeled be used in Shine Juice or is the methanol strength off for my purpose.
Thank you
 
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If it's only methanol, it's hazardous as hell to your health. Poison by design actually. DNA is ethanol and methanol. Not healthy, but the risk of methanol poisoning is less. This has been extensively debated on the internet, so a little Google work will give you a day of reading. Some California folks go to the liquor store and buy Everclear. But it is even in short supply because of some folks adding aloe gel and using that for hand sanitizer. If you insist on using that fuel, use extreme caution with skin contact. Something hard to do with a friction polish.
 
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If it's only methanol, it's hazardous as hell to your health. Poison by design actually. DNA is ethanol and methanol. Not healthy, but the risk of methanol poisoning is less. This has been extensively debated on the internet, so a little Google work will give you a day of reading. Some California folks go to the liquor store and buy Everclear. But it is even in short supply because of some folks adding aloe gel and using that for hand sanitizer. If you insist on using that fuel, use extreme caution with skin contact. Something hard to do with a friction polish.
Thank you, I really don't insist on using anything, just curious about all the rave reviews for Shine Juice and thought I'd try it. DNA is for sure alcohol stove fuel but just not sure if there is any difference between the stuff they label as only Alcohol Stove Fuel and the stuff they label as DNA stove fuel. Wish I could see the ingredients but I can't. Thanks again.
 
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You might be able to find the material safety data sheet for any of the materials you are investigating, but you'll have to dig.

If the REI stove fuel is 67% methanol what is the other 33%?
 
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They don’t show it and probably won’t until you order it and it comes. Was really hoping that someone who uses shine juice knew what the DNA they use was, like would have read the label. Maybe it’s not as popular as you’re led to believe though
 
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Bay Settlement, WI
I have heard of people using "methylated spirits" in areas where DNA is not available (e.g. Canada, the UK, etc.).
 
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Windsor, Pennsylvania
From what I read on another forum, posted a year ago, camping stove alcohol works fine and was still available in California at many fireplace and barbeque grill stores. I doubt that is the same as Coleman stove fuel though. .
 
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Apr 1, 2019
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Bashaw, Alberta
Yeah, denatured alcohol is exceptionally difficult to find in canada. Apparently because of regulations. I've found a product called bioflame stove fuel but that appears to have disappeared since covid hit. But we sure can buy much more dangerous methyl hydrate no problem. Maybe you can find bioflame in the states.
 

Timothy Allen

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Coleman stove fuel is not alcohol, but "white gas" (a petroleum hydrocarbon distillate). Pretty sure you would NOT want to use that in your shine juice....
 

Roger Wiegand

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Having read recently a number of times of the exceptional toxicity of methanol, and not quite understanding the special concern I checked on the OSHA web site for the PEL (permissible exposure limit during an 8 hour work day) for various common solvents. I think this is probably a pretty good indicator of their relative toxicity to humans:

Methyl alcohol 200 ppm
Ethyl alcohol 1000 ppm
Isopropyl alcohol 400 ppm
N-propyl alcohol 200 ppm
T-butyl alcohol 100 ppm

Acetone 1000 ppm
Acetonitrile 40 ppm
Turpentine 100 ppm
Xylenes 100 ppm
Naphtha 500 ppm
Toluene 200 ppm (with additional restrictions)
Methylene chloride no PEL, more strict limits apply

While methanol appears to be the most toxic of the simple alcohols it's within a factor of two of the commonly touted "safer" alternative of isopropyl, and better than the "natural" solvent, turpentine. Other shop solvents like methylene chloride don't get a PEL because they are too toxic for 8 hour exposure. I'm not sure that the ethanol limit isn't a cap number of some sort. You need to be at 2-5000 ppm in your blood to be legally drunk in most states.

My takeaway is that any of these solvents should be used with appropriate ventilation and PPE, and with appropriate precautions there's no reason to be exceptionally fearful of methanol. Pure ethanol would clearly be a safer alternative; isopropyl (rubbing alcohol) not so much.
 
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Interesting when you consider that rubbing alcohol was originally a linament. But then people used to X-ray their feet to see if their shoes fit.

The numbers on acetone are surprising. I still think that stuff is nasty and best kept at "arm's length". Which leads me to this pondering, does the volatility (and other properties) matter? Acetone is much more volatile than ethanol and readily penetrates gloves and skin, so I would guess you'd hit the 1000 mark after a shorter exposure.
 
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Thank you, I really don't insist on using anything, just curious about all the rave reviews for Shine Juice and thought I'd try it. DNA is for sure alcohol stove fuel but just not sure if there is any difference between the stuff they label as only Alcohol Stove Fuel and the stuff they label as DNA stove fuel. Wish I could see the ingredients but I can't. Thanks again.
In Canada this is DNA! I use it all the time.

everclear in the liquor store is pure ethanol. An excellent choice but expensive. DNA is everclear or pure ethanol with up to 16 % methanol to make it poisonous if you drink it, and a smelling* agent so you don’t drink it. So if your in California use everclear.
 
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Jul 8, 2020
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Beaumont, CA
I recently moved to SoCal and was shocked that DNA was something that you couldn't find. You can't get Everclear either (which supposedly is even better for shellac).

I knew I could use isopropyl alcohol. Knew it needed to be above 80%. Walked into the local home center (Do It Best) and found they had gallons of 99% iso. Gotta say, I am super happy with it. It evaporates a bit quicker than DNA. But, that works okay.

Spraying shellac thinned with only 99% iso can be a touch tricky. But for anything else, it works perfectly!


**EDIT** - Also saw 80% iso at the local Home Depot yesterday as well. But, it was about the same price as the 99% I got at the other place... I like the 99% stuff.
 
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A clarification, probably of little value, but Everclear is 95% ethanol (or less) with the balance water. It turns out it isn't possible to distill ethanol to any higher concentration.

(There is something called Absolute Ethanol that you will find in laboratory settings that uses unpleasnt things like benzene to get to 100%).
 
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Jan 21, 2020
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Carlsbad, California
I was thinking abt this shine juice thing and if it can be as dangerous as some think, why bother with it? Aren't there many other finishes that will work as well, even better? From what else I read I've learned that the original gloss look doesn't hold up, in fact it goes from gloss to more like a satin after some time. If I wanted that I would just start with that. Anyone who uses it a lot have an opinion? Thanks again.
 
Joined
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Windsor, Pennsylvania
I use it a fair amount, but use Zinsser's Seal Coat even more. As I understand it Seal Coat is just shellac cut with DNA. (like a 2 pound cut, what ever that it.) For shine juice, I just mix BLO and Seal Coat about 2 parts BLO to 3 parts Seal Coat. It certainly doesn't build up much, because the DNA in it dissolves some of the prior coat. I like the satin look on my items. If I want a gloss that lasts, I use WOP or something else. One thing about shine juice, is that if I set up at a Christmas market and turn a snow man in front of the crowd. I can coat it with shine juice and sell it in a minute or two.. I tell the customer the smell will take a few days to dissipate. . For some reason I have trouble getting even coverage with WOP in tight corners etc. So I often use a cheap (20 for $1) water color brushes and first paint those corners with the WOP and then wipe it on the rest of the surface. With the stuff I make, I am not generally looking for that "coated with glass" finish.
 
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Urbandale, Iowa
Interesting when you consider that rubbing alcohol was originally a linament. But then people used to X-ray their feet to see if their shoes fit.

The numbers on acetone are surprising. I still think that stuff is nasty and best kept at "arm's length". Which leads me to this pondering, does the volatility (and other properties) matter? Acetone is much more volatile than ethanol and readily penetrates gloves and skin, so I would guess you'd hit the 1000 mark after a shorter exposure.
alcohols readily mix with water. Acetone, not so much. I would think absorption by our bodies makes the difference.
 

Roger Wiegand

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Volatility is one reason acetone has vey little effect, you breath it out very rapidly once you're not breathing it in. Its residence time in circulation in your body is very short. Your body also makes quite a bit of it as part of normal metabolism, much more when you are fasting. There are well established pathways to get rid of intracellular acetone.

Solubility in lipids (both fat and cellular membranes) would tend to make compounds persist in the body longer than something that is purely aqueous, the volume of distribution is much larger. But again the volatility works on your favor; bigger, less soluble lipophilic compounds tend to linger once absorbed, acetone just diffuses out again.
 
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alcohols readily mix with water. Acetone, not so much. I would think absorption by our bodies makes the difference.
the xray thing? I actually remember thinking how cool it was that I could see my bones wiggle in the shoes. Heck I was about 6 at the time. . But if ya want dangerous, My great aunt worked in a watch factory painting watch dials with radium. Job was great til her fingers started shriveling and falling off.
 
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I don't live too far from a "Radium Girls" work site, Ottawa, IL. Besides the girls getting hurt on the job, they took some of the radium home to decorate things in the house and latter containers of the radium were found in their homes. Hot spots all over the town,
 
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Bloomfield, New Jersey
I have heard of people using "methylated spirits" in areas where DNA is not available (e.g. Canada, the UK, etc.).
Wiki says:

"Denatured alcohol, also called methylated spirits or wood spirit or denatured rectified spirit, is ethanol that has additives to make it poisonous, bad-tasting, foul-smelling, or nauseating to discourage recreational consumption. It is sometimes dyed so that it can be identified visually."
 
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Nov 21, 2019
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Georgia
On the bottle of DNA I purchased from Home Depot in GA, it's also listed as "marine fuel". Ironically, I tried to search for denatured alcohol on the Home Depot website, and while it showed "Klean Strip FUEL - Denatured Alcohol" as a thumbnail for an alternate search query for "paint thinner", the product actually wasn't even listed in any of the search results. Not sure what's going on there, but I know that Amazon and Wal-Mart have the same product for sale on their online stores.
 
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Jan 21, 2020
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Carlsbad, California
Thank you, I appreciate everyone's comments. As far as HD and AMA go, they won't ship to me even if they show it's available. So if I want shine juice it's either a 6 hour round trip drive or see if these other products are just really the same thing with another label and if not are they a good enough substitute. Thx again
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
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Canton, GA
I use a lot of shine juice, my mix is with walnut oil and DNA from home depot--I have used everclear when HD was out of DNA and that works well, so m,u advice would be to use Everclear if the won't ship DNA to your Commiefornia location! Walnut OIl hardens better than BOL so that's why I changed my mix to use Walnut oil.
 
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I use a lot of shine juice, my mix is with walnut oil and DNA from home depot--I have used everclear when HD was out of DNA and that works well, so m,u advice would be to use Everclear if the won't ship DNA to your Commiefornia location! Walnut OIl hardens better than BOL so that's why I changed my mix to use Walnut oil.
Appreciate your interest and suggestion but everclear has been outlawed here since the Civil War practically. Can't have any fun here. Again that's why I'm curious about the stove fuel labeled "alcohol." Thx again.
 
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Please, whiskey is cheaper here than those forms of alcohol. Wuld really have to have your head on backwards to try that. Thx for your concern tho. Will read your links
I appreciate the info, but as of yet I still don't think anyone knows or has said if the 70% methanol, alcohol stove fuel can and should be substituted for properly labeled "DNA."
 
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Not sure there is anything else that will do as well for shellac solvent although there are many things that will damage a shellac finish. That includes but not limited to water, acetone, lacquer thinner. DNA was created for two reasons basically due to the fact that drinking alcohol has a large tax and craftsman needed cheaper source of that type solvent so methanol (wood alcohol) was added and then since it was not drinking alcohol and no tax cost went down.

Now during prohibition some would drink rubbing alcohol . There are two types of this isopropyl and ethel . Isopropyl was invented in the 20's and is poison . Ethyl can be consumed but has additives to make it non consumable and would probably throwup your toes if consummed.

Any alcohol will probably work but best results most likely from DNA. You might buy another alcohol and try a test and let us know.Oh and one more thing ALL alcohols readily absorb water from the air so all have water in them.
 
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Not sure there is anything else that will do as well for shellac solvent although there are many things that will damage a shellac finish. That includes but not limited to water, acetone, lacquer thinner. DNA was created for two reasons basically due to the fact that drinking alcohol has a large tax and craftsman needed cheaper source of that type solvent so methanol (wood alcohol) was added and then since it was not drinking alcohol and no tax cost went down.

Now during prohibition some would drink rubbing alcohol . There are two types of this isopropyl and ethel . Isopropyl was invented in the 20's and is poison . Ethyl can be consumed but has additives to make it non consumable and would probably throwup your toes if consummed.

Any alcohol will probably work but best results most likely from DNA. You might buy another alcohol and try a test and let us know.Oh and one more thing ALL alcohols readily absorb water from the air so all have water in them.
Thank you. Never having used it before I'm not sure what to look for when testing if it works. What would tell me if it works or not? Look, not drying, just not sure, but I will try and let all the Californians, esp, know. Thx again.
 
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Thank you. Never having used it before I'm not sure what to look for when testing if it works. What would tell me if it works or not? Look, not drying, just not sure, but I will try and let all the Californians, esp, know. Thx again.

Fresh shellac should dry extremely fast and not leave any sticky residue after 10 minutes or so. As it gets older yes that time may extend slightly but if it goes 15 minutes either the shellac is old or the alcohol is bad. Yes alcohol does go bad as far as shellac use is concerned and that is that water absorption.
 
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