I'm just beyond beginner. I think the smartest thing I'm doing to improve my turning is my upcoming all day workshop with Cindy Drozda. Next best move? I've been sharpening with my old Griz Tormeck nock off, After watching a short clip during a presentation at the recent Tenn Symposium of the presenter turning with a sharpened garden shovel, I think I should upgrade my sharpening. I visited with Ken Rizza at Tenn, and I'm thinking of getting a new grinder with a couple of his Al CBN wheels. Comments?
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Best move forward
- Thread starter Mike Zip Hamilton
- Start date
What is it about your present sharpening that you don't like or think needs improving? If it's taking too long then CBN's will certainly be much faster. If you're not able to create the edge you want then CBN's won't help that.
I have Ken's CBN wheels & grinder and like them. I have the 180 and 600 grit wheels, but I find I use the 600 almost all of the time.
I have Ken's CBN wheels & grinder and like them. I have the 180 and 600 grit wheels, but I find I use the 600 almost all of the time.
Lucky You with the workshop!! I have Ken's CBN wheels/with his balancing kit. A 220 and 350. The 220 is paired with a Robo Hippy rest and the 350 with my jig system. I get very nice looking and performing tools off of these wheels. Foe re-contouring these wheels might take longer but I can get the job done and I'm to old to be in a hurry. My grinder runs very smoothly with his wheels. Very happy!
I have Ken's CBN wheels as well and the One way sharping gig. Very pleased with both.
I'm pretty sure that Cindy will show you how to turn with some original tools, none of which will be a shovel. 
Should be a wonderful day and I bet you come away with a definite answer to your question on sharpening, so maybe don't make a leap until then.
Should be a wonderful day and I bet you come away with a definite answer to your question on sharpening, so maybe don't make a leap until then.
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Cindy is a terrific teacher.
I have seen her do two week long classes.
Once you master the concept of riding the bevel you can cut wood on the lathe with a sharpened spoon or axe head. And thanks to your experience a sharpened shovel (big spoon).
The tormek (and the clones) with a trued wheel will sharpen tools quite well including shovels.
The CBN will sharpen tools quite quite well including shovels.
Switching to CBNs won’t get your tools shaper if your tormek clone is in good condition and you keep the wheel trued.
I prefer the tormek for skews because I have the stropping wheel to touch up the edge.
I prefer the CBN for my gouges and scrapers.
I don’t like dealing with the water in the tormek. May have to get one of Ken’s wheels for the tormek and toss the water tray.
You may like using the CBNs more than using the tormek.
I do for most tools. Ken’s systems work well.
Switching grinders will change your experience in the shop much more than it will affect the quality of your turnings.
I have seen her do two week long classes.
Once you master the concept of riding the bevel you can cut wood on the lathe with a sharpened spoon or axe head. And thanks to your experience a sharpened shovel (big spoon).
The tormek (and the clones) with a trued wheel will sharpen tools quite well including shovels.
The CBN will sharpen tools quite quite well including shovels.
Switching to CBNs won’t get your tools shaper if your tormek clone is in good condition and you keep the wheel trued.
I prefer the tormek for skews because I have the stropping wheel to touch up the edge.
I prefer the CBN for my gouges and scrapers.
I don’t like dealing with the water in the tormek. May have to get one of Ken’s wheels for the tormek and toss the water tray.
You may like using the CBNs more than using the tormek.
I do for most tools. Ken’s systems work well.
Switching grinders will change your experience in the shop much more than it will affect the quality of your turnings.
Thanks for all the help. I did think about getting a CBN wheel for my Griz because I am truing my wheel more than twice a week. That same reason has convinced me that it's not worth trying to rehab that old machine. I don't think I'm getting my tools sharp enough. I'm using the Tormek jig that is pretty fool proof; so I don't think my technique is an issue. Watching demos at our club meetings, I keep thinking that I would have been back to the sharpener several times. When I look at their piece after, the surface is fine. They are using better tools than I am. I'm thinking would a couple Doug Thompson gouges with the hi-fi steel be best, or up grade my sharpening system?
My first turning was with a wood chisel and a piece of a 2x4. The chisel was dull. Now I have graduated to a sharpening system and tools. Don't have room to turn with the shovel as the handle is too long!
Your time with Cindy will be well-spent. She also has a video on sharpening. I believe it's on Youtube.
Your time with Cindy will be well-spent. She also has a video on sharpening. I believe it's on Youtube.
So are your tools made from high speed steel or carbon steel? The later sharpens up, but does not hold its edge very well.
As to your question which to change first, the grinder or the tool, I would answer "maybe both". But why not buy an "upscale" tool first and see how it takes and holds an edge.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
You didn't mention what brand tools you are sharpening. I don't know the composition of the griz stone but the carbides in Particle metal tools such as Thompson may be harder than your stone. The Tormek stones seem to work well with these tools but I know that some stones simply don't remove the steel on the reallly touch metals. A CBN wheel is hard enough to sharpen these modern steels.
Seldom is the tool the problem, and if you’ve been using your Tormeck knock off for years I’m certain you know how to get a sharp edge.
Example in point, yesterday I mentored a turner whom had been turning now for a few years.
Before coming to my shop he told me he was getting far too much tearout both on the outside of his bowls and on the inside.
I asked that he bring to my shop the bowls he was working on as well as HIS tools, so that I could a assess his problem(s).
Turns out he was approaching the wood incorrectly with the cutting edge of his tools, flute too far open, not riding, or as I like to say (floating) the bevel. Too much pressure pushing the heal of the tool into the wood, not correctly following the inside curve of the bowl to maintain the bevel and cutting edge of the tool in contact with the wood. Improper body position and holding the tool with a gorilla grip.
His tools were sharp with a decent profile however, the wings on his bowl gouge were ground concave , talk about an uncontrollable cutting edge. His tools were cheap “value” tools.
After I made just a few cuts on his bowl, with his tools he was gobsmacked with the cleanness of the cuts with zero tearout, the tools were not the problem.
Point being, some proper instruction will take you a long way in improving your abilities.
Example in point, yesterday I mentored a turner whom had been turning now for a few years.
Before coming to my shop he told me he was getting far too much tearout both on the outside of his bowls and on the inside.
I asked that he bring to my shop the bowls he was working on as well as HIS tools, so that I could a assess his problem(s).
Turns out he was approaching the wood incorrectly with the cutting edge of his tools, flute too far open, not riding, or as I like to say (floating) the bevel. Too much pressure pushing the heal of the tool into the wood, not correctly following the inside curve of the bowl to maintain the bevel and cutting edge of the tool in contact with the wood. Improper body position and holding the tool with a gorilla grip.
His tools were sharp with a decent profile however, the wings on his bowl gouge were ground concave , talk about an uncontrollable cutting edge. His tools were cheap “value” tools.
After I made just a few cuts on his bowl, with his tools he was gobsmacked with the cleanness of the cuts with zero tearout, the tools were not the problem.
Point being, some proper instruction will take you a long way in improving your abilities.
Sounds like your well on your way. I would ask Cindy to recommend a sharpening system, tools, etc. She’s one of the leaders in turning so pick her brain.
Tools are Hurricane/HSS
After watching Cindy;s video, I think I'll try my high speed(3600) grinder with AO wheel to see what I get. I know that I will need a very soft touch to avoid over heating the steel. I won't be back in my shop until mid-March.
I suspect the wheel on my Griz is pretty soft(frequent need to dress).
After watching Cindy;s video, I think I'll try my high speed(3600) grinder with AO wheel to see what I get. I know that I will need a very soft touch to avoid over heating the steel. I won't be back in my shop until mid-March.
I suspect the wheel on my Griz is pretty soft(frequent need to dress).
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
Your Griz should sharpen standard HSS tools with no problem.
I have several Hurricane HSS tools that sharpen easily on any type of grinding wheel.
One trick to using full speed grinders less aggressively is to turn them on and let them run up to speed, then turn them off and sharpen. The beastly grinder at our high school slowing down takes just the right amount of time to resharpen a fingernail spindle gouge. If you need to do more, turn back on, off and sharpen some more.
There is no difference between a slow speed grinder and a hi speed grinder. You don't buy a slow speed grinder and instantly know how to sharpen your tools, it is a learning process and it is the same process for the hi speed grinder. You learn. One spins faster than the other but you learn with what you have.
The June 2018 issue of American Woodturners has a most informative article with some magnified edge pictures. I highly recommend it.