Shop, Health and Safety

[dbonertz]

I know this has been covered many times however it is worth repeating because it is to important. Ryan started a thread asking about two different lathes and I accidentally strayed the topic into safety thus I felt for Ryan's sake I would move the importance of safety to another area.

I mentioned that I used to say when purchasing a lathe to "buy what you can afford" and to add to that what fits your turning style (bowls, hollow forms, ornaments, mirrors and etc.). I have since changed my attitude towards saying "buy what you can afford after buying the necessary safety equipment". I think most all of us started by buying a lathe and a few tools without giving our health even consideration. I know I didn't start with an adequate dust collector or air filtration system let alone hearing protection. I did start with a awful dust collector that was loud, drills for sanding, air compressor - all in the shop. I have lost 50% of my hearing in my left ear which hearing is a gradual unrecoverable process. As hobby turners/wood workers or as a profession we need to be aware of and take steps toward our health. We are lucky in that preserving our health is fairly easy if we decide to invest in the proper tools to do so. I now have a 3hp dust collector outside my shop in a dedicated shed but it is still loud when running (sound travels through the ducting). My compressor is outside my shop in the other part of the garage, walls are insulated however I can still hear it kick on. I also wear a 3m airmate that has a fan running and is noisy. A good air filtration system needs to be in the shop to work they are still noisy. Then we run drills as sanders. I guess what I'm getting at is that we need to take care of our lungs, eyes, body but don't forget your hearing. I think most of us buy more lathe than what we really need. I feel we should change our focus a bit and buy very good to great health protection and lesser lathes. After all we can always upgrade our lathes but it is impossible to upgrade lungs, eyes, hearing, arms, legs and etc. BTW hearing protection like shooter muffs are not the answer. Good sound deadening devices are better for the shop. You can hear what is going on without damaging your hearing - many styles out there.

Stay happy and practice healthy, clean and organized shops.

 

[Ryan Sohn]

So currently I just have a jet air filtration system, wear an eclipse respirator, bionic shield with safety glasses. Would this be considered a good starting point or should I invest in dedicated dust collection and better respiratory protection? I have been researching dedicated dust collection and really like the Oneida collectors......

 

[dbonertz]

I would say you are ahead of most. I don't know anything about the eclipse respirator so I will leave that review to others. The face shield and glasses are good, I still use my bionic shield on occasion. The air filtration unit is good however a dedicated dust collector is a must in my opinion. Not knowing the eclipse dust protection I would say you are well on your way to great lung protection if you were to purchase a good dust collection system to go with what you have existing. Only other thing is ear protection. Once those things are in place you may be ready for that lathe upgrade. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Ryan Sohn]

I’m thinking maybe a versa flow would be a good investment also. Hopefully some users will chime in.........

 

[Bill Boehme]

Dale, thanks for starting this thread. Many years ago a lot of turners scoffed at the mention of any safety gear beyond just a face shield. I'm glad that most people are taking this subject seriously now. The Eclipse is a good mask that has a P100 HEPA filter and is NIOSH certified, but the only potential problem might be wearing glasses. The Bionic face shield is better than most, but don't let it give you a false sense of security. You can still get a very serious injury if a big piece of wood hits your face shield. Make sure that you stand out of the most likely trajectory of a flying piece of wood. The air filtration system is primarily to keep your shop clean, but it doesn't do much for real time air quality when you are sanding and standing close to the source.

I have both a 3M Airstream powered respirator and a 3M Versaflo powered respirator. They are both great, but strictly from a comfort perspective I prefer the Airstream. It is light and self contained except for the battery which hangs on my belt. The Versaflo has more airflow, better field of view, better head protection and is quieter. However, it is bulky with the heavy separate blower unit that is belt mounted on the lower back, a large diameter hose that connects to the helmet and a heavy battery that also hangs on the belt. I find that the belt keeps sliding down until the hose is pulling on the helmet. I replaced the belt with a tactical vest which solves some problems, but adds to the bulk.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Dale you mentioned a hearing loss in the other thread I believe. I also have an almost total loss in my right ear. It is a serious handicap and once it is gone, it's gone for good. I am fanatic about protecting the hearing in my left ear. My dad's hearing was so bad that he could hardly hear anything and I don't want to go through that.

We are currently having some remodeling in our house. One of the workers has a serious hearing loss mostly caused by loud air compressors and air tools like nail guns and sanders. He has a really loud pancake compressor that drives me and my wife out of the house when he is using it. I told him that I have a large compressor in my shop and enough air hose that he could use it instead of his compressor. He thanked me for the offer, but said the sound wasn't bothering him. Fortunately that part of the job is finished.

You mentioned coring. That turned out to be somewhat of a rude awakening for me. I bought a McNaughton coring rig. The noise was unbelievable and everything that could rattle loose did. The handle came loose from the blade, the banjo rattled loose, so did the tool rest, tailstock, and possibly the headstock. Normally the lathe is quiet, but the wood can vibrate and be pretty loud

 

[Paul M. Kaplowitz]

I have an Airmate 3 that I have used for 20 years. I like it. The problem is the face shield cracks and needs to be replaced and Airware wants $40. For the Tyvek neck seal they want $10. This is plain thievery. They should have a gun in their hands when charging those prices.

 

[John Torchick]

This is an outstanding discussion! I had my hearing checked about three years ago as SWMBO complained that the TV was too loud for her. My hearing loss was on the low frequency side; audiologist said it was hereditary. I have two hearing aids now. My mother refused to get hearing aids. I now see the hereditary connection. I had a friend who taught me to shoot skeet. He had severe hearing loss due to shooting for years without any hearing protection. My father had hearing loss due to aircraft engines during WWII. How does this tie in with the shop? Any time we are exposed to loud noises- shop, lawn mowers, power tools in and out of the shop, etc., hearing protection is a must. I wear ear plus with a NRR rating of a minimum of 28. Have some foam earplugs that are rated at 33- Howard & Leight.
Bill, I guess the worker wasn't bothered by the compressor was that he had hearing loss already.
Thanks to all for contributing!

 

[dbonertz]

Dale you mentioned a hearing loss in the other thread I believe. I also have an almost total loss in my right ear. It is a serious handicap and once it is gone, it's gone for good. I am fanatic about protecting the hearing in my left ear. My dad's hearing was so bad that he could hardly hear anything and I don't want to go through that.

We are currently having some remodeling in our house. One of the workers has a serious hearing loss mostly caused by loud air compressors and air tools like nail guns and sanders. He has a really loud pancake compressor that drives me and my wife out of the house when he is using it. I told him that I have a large compressor in my shop and enough air hose that he could use it instead of his compressor. He thanked me for the offer, but said the sound wasn't bothering him. Fortunately that part of the job is finished.

You mentioned coring. That turned out to be somewhat of a rude awakening for me. I bought a McNaughton coring rig. The noise was unbelievable and everything that could rattle loose did. The handle came loose from the blade, the banjo rattled loose, so did the tool rest, tailstock, and possibly the headstock. Normally the lathe is quiet, but the wood can vibrate and be pretty loud

I used to say that "the sound doesn't bother me". Well dummy (me) that's because you're losing your hearing. I have lost 50% in my left ear and very little in my right. I am protecting what I have left with diligence.

There are all kinds of noises that we ignore in our shops and we shouldn't. Gradual unrecoverable hearing loss is a problem that cannot be ignored any longer for all of us.

Dust in my shop is easy to mitigate however dust on the job is hard to mitigate. I have said for twenty years that the dust I breath in from the job and living will be the death of me. I don't need to accelerate it from shop dust.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I have an Airmate 3 that I have used for 20 years. I like it. The problem is the face shield cracks and needs to be replaced and Airware wants $40. For the Tyvek neck seal they want $10. This is plain thievery. They should have a gun in their hands when charging those prices.

Check the quantity. In the past they sold things indivually, but now they sell items as packaged by 3M. Also, don't blame them for the prices. These are industrial products with industrial strength price tags. You can fuss at 3M, but they'll just turn a deaf ear (since we're talking about hearing loss).

 

[Mark Jundanian]

For hearing protection I use Bose noise cancelling ear buds. At close to $300 this is not a cheap solution, but very effective.

Ironically I didn't get hearing protection for the lathe, nothing I turn makes that much noise. But running the dust collector to protect my lungs is like switching on a jet engine.

 

[robo hippy]

Not sure how true it is, but I remember hearing that most of the dust collector noise comes from air flowing through the pipes, and not so much from the actual motor. I do know there are some noise reducer things you can get for them, but mine will be housed inside a room with the compressor. For turning dry wood and sanding at the lathe, you need an enclosed hood, not just the big gulp type vent hoods. I will do a new and improved one for my Liberty that is mounted to the wall, and try to figure out some thing for the Beauty so the hood can stay in place. Even though I turn mostly green wood, if the shavings have been sitting on the floor for more than a day, they get very dusty...

The new shop is set up with central air/heat. I have been considering using the 'circulate' part of the system for filtering dust out of the air. The filters they use are fine enough to pull it all out, but think I probably need to prefilter it before it goes into the vents. Any one else try this? I would think it would be more effective than the air scrubbers.

robo hippy

 

[Paul M. Kaplowitz]

Hey Bill, I just checked Airmate's web site and they went up to $15 per Tyvek neck seal. I didn't see anything about quantity.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Not sure how true it is, but I remember hearing that most of the dust collector noise comes from air flowing through the pipes, and not so much from the actual motor. I do know there are some noise reducer things you can get for them, but mine will be housed inside a room with the compressor. For turning dry wood and sanding at the lathe, you need an enclosed hood, not just the big gulp type vent hoods. I will do a new and improved one for my Liberty that is mounted to the wall, and try to figure out some thing for the Beauty so the hood can stay in place. Even though I turn mostly green wood, if the shavings have been sitting on the floor for more than a day, they get very dusty...

The new shop is set up with central air/heat. I have been considering using the 'circulate' part of the system for filtering dust out of the air. The filters they use are fine enough to pull it all out, but think I probably need to prefilter it before it goes into the vents. Any one else try this? I would think it would be more effective than the air scrubbers.

robo hippy

I would no even think about using central as air filter. I have central in my shop and after about 12 years the dust clogged the coils , cost over 800. Now I use at least merv 12 or 14 filters and even they are not cheap.
You just cannot beat air cleaners but here again is that noise factor

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Dale you mentioned a hearing loss in the other thread I believe. I also have an almost total loss in my right ear. It is a serious handicap and once it is gone, it's gone for good. I am fanatic about protecting the hearing in my left ear. My dad's hearing was so bad that he could hardly hear anything and I don't want to go through that.

We are currently having some remodeling in our house. One of the workers has a serious hearing loss mostly caused by loud air compressors and air tools like nail guns and sanders. He has a really loud pancake compressor that drives me and my wife out of the house when he is using it. I told him that I have a large compressor in my shop and enough air hose that he could use it instead of his compressor. He thanked me for the offer, but said the sound wasn't bothering him. Fortunately that part of the job is finished.

You mentioned coring. That turned out to be somewhat of a rude awakening for me. I bought a McNaughton coring rig. The noise was unbelievable and everything that could rattle loose did. The handle came loose from the blade, the banjo rattled loose, so did the tool rest, tailstock, and possibly the headstock. Normally the lathe is quiet, but the wood can vibrate and be pretty loud

I 100% agree with you Bill, the noise the wood makes when cutting it is extremely loud. I wear noise canceling headphones all the time when turning. I also have some hearing loss, 30% on my left ear.... I hate to preach, but when it comes to safety I feel I have no option. One of the loudest things I do is when I use my Lyle Jamieson hallowing system. Hearing protection in my opinion is not taken seriously by most people, they think their lathe is quiet, I don't even know my lathe is on, I hear that often. But when you start cutting...

 

[Bill Boehme]

I 100% agree with you Bill, the noise the wood makes when cutting it is extremely loud. I wear noise canceling headphones all the time when turning. I also have some hearing loss, 30% on my left ear.... I hate to preach, but when it comes to safety I feel I have no option. One of the loudest things I do is when I use my Lyle Jamieson hallowing system. Hearing protection in my opinion is not taken seriously by most people, they think their lathe is quiet, I don't even know my lathe is on, I hear that often. But when you start cutting...

I briefly owned a Jamieson hollowing rig, but sold it because of the loud rattling noise. I have a Steve Sinner hollowing system which is much quieter. But, when it comes to noise I don't think that anything is as loud as the McNaughton coring system especially the large blades.

 

[Ricc Havens]

Okay, okay, okay! I hear you (via some hearing loss due to tinnitus - that's the constant ringing in the ears caused by loud noises over time) I just now ordered noise canceling Isotune earphones. And due to the input from viewing this forum thread and others I have also decided to get better at dust control. I've always put it off due to my limited disability income budget but I'm finding ways to make it happen.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

@Ricc Havens, I may be wrong, but I don't believe Isotunes sells noise cancelling earbuds. I believe their products are all noise isolating or dampening.

Noise cancelling earbuds actually "listen" to the environmental noise and produce mirror image noise (sound waves that are 180 degrees out of phase) in your ear of the right amplitude to cancel out the ambient sound.

Noise isolating ear buds physically block the ambient sound wave from propagating into your ear.

Noise isolating devices require a good physical seal in your ear to be effective so success will depend a lot on the individual fit.

Noise cancelling ear buds are less fit dependent and to my ear more effective at reducing noise intensity. However they are only effective on noise that is constant or has a predictable pattern (e.g. the dust collector vs. a pile driver).

Noise cancelling devices need a source of electricity to run the microprcessor and will have an on-off switch.

It is possible to combine the two approaches. I swapped the OEM ear tips for Comply foam tips on my Bose earbuds and while the fit for me is not perfect there is significant sound reduction just from the Comply tips.

 

[robo hippy]

Bill, I am wondering why your McNasty makes so much noise. Mine doesn't make any more noise than when I am doing standard scraping cuts....

Gerald, I am working on it... The air going into the intake will be pre filtered if I go that way. New shop is a lot bigger. Of course, getting dust at the source before it gets into the air is the best solution... With the local climate and my 1 foot thick walls, the wood stove and night time summer air at 55 to 60 degrees will keep things nice and cozy in here.... Still lots of stuff to figure out...

robo hippy

 

[Ricc Havens]

@Ricc Havens, I may be wrong, but I don't believe Isotunes sells noise cancelling earbuds. I believe their products are all noise isolating or dampening.

Noise cancelling earbuds actually "listen" to the environmental noise and produce mirror image noise (sound waves that are 180 degrees out of phase) in your ear of the right amplitude to cancel out the ambient sound.

Noise isolating ear buds physically block the ambient sound wave from propagating into your ear.

Noise isolating devices require a good physical seal in your ear to be effective so success will depend a lot on the individual fit.

Noise cancelling ear buds are less fit dependent and to my ear more effective at reducing noise intensity. However they are only effective on noise that is constant or has a predictable pattern (e.g. the dust collector vs. a pile driver).

Noise cancelling devices need a source of electricity to run the microprcessor and will have an on-off switch.

It is possible to combine the two approaches. I swapped the OEM ear tips for Comply foam tips on my Bose earbuds and while the fit for me is not perfect there is significant sound reduction just from the Comply tips.

@Mark Jundanian - I appreciate the feedback. I'm definitely not expert on this stuff so it's good to get more info for a better understanding. according to their website description they do provide some protection.

• ANSI-certified 27 dB Noise Reduction Rating (NRR)
• OSHA-compliant, including ISOtunes signature SafeMax™ Technology with 85 dB volume limit
• Features aptX® high definition audio playback
• Background noise cancellation for phone calls eliminates steady state sounds like jet engines, lawn mowers, fans and vacuums for clear calls in loud environments
• Custom-fit memory wire conforms to ear for stable fit

and it will definitely be better than what I'm doing now (which is nothing). I know their are better units out there like the Bose that you and Emiliano mentioned that he uses but those just aren't in my budget.

 

[John Torchick]

May have posted this already. I bought Howard-Leight foam earplugs for trapshooting. NRR of 33 which is high for any hearing protection. Ear muffs weren't comfortable for me.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Ricc, maybe I'm wrong about the Isotunes, I just wanted to make sure you were getting what you intended to get.

A lot of people use the Isotunes and like them. Please let us all know how they work for you.

 

[Ryan Sohn]

Okay, okay, okay! I hear you (via some hearing loss due to tinnitus - that's the constant ringing in the ears caused by loud noises over time) I just now ordered noise canceling Isotune earphones. And due to the input from viewing this forum thread and others I have also decided to get better at dust control. I've always put it off due to my limited disability income budget but I'm finding ways to make it happen.

Let us know what you think of them I’m considering the same ones.

 

[Paul Grenier]

I have an Oneida 3hp Cyclone collector piped to all of my ww equipment and lathe. I also have a Jet ceiling hung air filter and I also have a 3M Versaflo. I really like the high air flow are of fresh air. So far I've not had an issue with the belt sliding down due to the weight of the battery. If I did, I'd simply buy a pair of good suspenders and attach them to the belt to solve the issue.

 

[Ricc Havens]

Let us know what you think of them I’m considering the same ones.

I will report back after the holidays. I actually canceled the order late yesterday as my folks called and were wondering what I wanted for Christmas. So, I mentioned them to mom and she said they would buy them so I won't be actually gettingn them for a few weeks. I'll let you know.