Looking to purchase s new lathe in the next couple of months and would like some feedback on those using either the Robust AB or the Powermatic 3520. Thanks.....
-
We just finished moving the forums to a new hosting server. It looks like everything is functioning correctly but if you find a problem please report it in the Forum Technical Support Forum (click here) or email us at forum_moderator AT aawforum.org. Thanks! -
Beware of Counterfeit Woodturning Tools (click here for details) -
Johnathan Silwones is starting a new AAW chapter, Southern Alleghenies Woodturners, in Johnstown, PA. (click here for details) -
Congratulations to Dave Roberts for "2 Hats" being selected as Turning of the Week for April 22, 2024 (click here for details) -
Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.
New lathe questions.....
- Thread starter Ryan Sohn
- Start date
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I've been a 3520 owner for.close to 15.years and saw the first one the factory made so I can probably answer your questions on that lathe.
Just wondering what your likes/dislikes are, any problems you’ve had, things you would change and overall happiness with the purchase etc
Ryan, I have both a Powermatic 3520c (three months old) and a Robust American Beauty (two weeks old) in my shop. I would be happy to answer any of your questions. It should be noted that these two lathes are really in different categories. I think it would be more fair to compare the 3520 to the Robust Sweet 16 and the Powermatic 4224 to the Robust American Beauty.
Ya I guess not really the same class, I just figured that if I’m going to spend the extra money on a 4224 that I would likely spend the additional money for an AB. I’m really looking for a high quality machine that that is reliable and precise.
How would you compare them quality wise?
This question comes up fairly regular and it is one where you need to look within yourself, as hard as that can be (especially if your a newer turner). I have turned on both lathes and I know many owners of both lathes. I can say that those owners are happy with their purchases and I have had decent experiences and not so decent experiences turning on them (no lathe is totally perfect). I say you need to look within because there are questions you should answer to guide your decision. How long have you been turning? How often do you turn? What do you turn? The answer to questions like that and other questions (feel free to add to the list - turning brothers/sisters) will help determine what you need for motor size, weight of machine, accessories available and etc. The Robust is made in America and the fit and finish is one of the better units on the market. The Powermatic is made in China (last I knew) and for China one of their better made products. If you are a newer turner, the extra $3000 difference in price could buy you lung protection, face protection, hearing protection, more turning tools and etc. Having said that if you have all of those things and want to buy your last lathe you will ever need/want then the Robust may be the way to go. I don't feel you can go wrong with either lathe for the average and above average turner, it really depends on your situation with auxiliary to woodworking equipment, disposable income and turning style/usage. Good luck with your search and research.
I have turned on many Powermatic 3520b's and like them so much that I bought the newest 3520c. The B model is much better built with a better fit an finish than the C model. If you can find a 3520b on the used market I believe that they are one of the best values out there. I won't go into detail why the new C model disappointed me, enough so that I sold it and bought a Robust AB. There really is no comparison in build quality or fit and finish. The Robust is truly a robust lathe and it far exceeded my expectations. If you have the budget I would get the Robust but as dbonertz said, you'll need to budget in all the accessories as well.
Ryan,
I got into wood turning with a old, used lathe that my grandfather bought at some yard or estate sale. When it broke, my bride gave me a Delta midi lathe. That worked much better and I used it for 10 years or so. But when I was able afford one, I bought a Powermatic 3520B.
I bought the light kit (6294901K) and outboard turning stand. The light kit is really nice and I really like it. The outboard stand is something I would consider not buying.
The jumps between each of these was very significant, & I am very happy with the one I have. I’ve made the controls to be remote
I’ve never used a Robust lathe, but I’ve never heard any complaints from users of them. So please don’t take these notes as critical of Robust. Merely want to give you some thought points regarding the Powermatic option.
Kind regards,
Rich
I got into wood turning with a old, used lathe that my grandfather bought at some yard or estate sale. When it broke, my bride gave me a Delta midi lathe. That worked much better and I used it for 10 years or so. But when I was able afford one, I bought a Powermatic 3520B.
I bought the light kit (6294901K) and outboard turning stand. The light kit is really nice and I really like it. The outboard stand is something I would consider not buying.
The jumps between each of these was very significant, & I am very happy with the one I have. I’ve made the controls to be remote
- Instructions : https://mustardmonster.weebly.com/uploads/3/6/4/1/3641005/remote_switch_for_powermatic_3520b.pdf
- Pictures of mine : http://sharpeninghandbook.info/shopnotes/RemoteSwitchPics.html
- Lathe Spindle Lock, Part # 1048080001, ~$30
- Tailstock Swing Away, Part # 6294721, ~$300
- Doc Greenwood's site - lots of good information, especially about how to repair these lathes.
- Mustard Monster web site - lots of good information about these lathes.
I’ve never used a Robust lathe, but I’ve never heard any complaints from users of them. So please don’t take these notes as critical of Robust. Merely want to give you some thought points regarding the Powermatic option.
Kind regards,
Rich
The 3520 is like the little brother or sister of the AB. I went from the 3520 to the AB for the extra horse power and the Made in USA. As for the 3520, I preferred the speed ranges on the A model. Not sure what they are on the C. I prefer speeds down to 15 or so rpm for sanding my warped bowls, and with the PM B model the low speed was 50 rpm. I had my AB tweaked to go down to about 15 rpm before it turns off. I do prefer the tilt away on the AB also...
There have been a lot of opinions about the vibration differences between the cast iron and steel lathes. Only real difference I noticed was they made different noises when turning. Both will handle a lot of abuse....
robo hippy
There have been a lot of opinions about the vibration differences between the cast iron and steel lathes. Only real difference I noticed was they made different noises when turning. Both will handle a lot of abuse....
robo hippy
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2013
- Messages
- 325
- Likes
- 733
- Location
- Gulfport, MS
- Website
- www.woodtreasuresbybreck.com
I own and use The Robust American Beauty, please know the lathe I owned prior to my AB was a powermatic 3520B for 5 years of hard use. There was never anything I couldn't turn on my PM that I turn now except larger inboard bowls. But since I turn a lot of green wood (twice turned bowls) the stainless steel bed is truly a wonderful blessing, because I would need to spend 30 minutes everyday cleaning off the bed to prevent heavy rust. Also the gas assist shock for the tailstock swing away is worth everything I ever paid for this fine machine. I had turners elbow because I constantly shoved the PM tailstock as far right as possible and I had the 18" extension on my PM also. My elbow was always bleeding from hitting that point on the tailstock. I can now remove the heavy tailstock with a finger. I am not as young as I used to be and appreciate the bells and whistles you can get on the Robust AB. If it comes down to money then the PM is easier on your wallet. Both are great machines, but the Robust is the Luxury lathe of our age.IMHO . The 3hp motor on the AB is not necessary for a beginner or someone who doesn't have much experience using a lathe, but for those of us who turn very large and heavy salad bowls the extra HP is again a blessing.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2004
- Messages
- 8,637
- Likes
- 4,976
- Location
- Lakeland, Florida
- Website
- www.hockenberywoodturning.com
I have probably turned on an AB 20 times, on a 3520 well over a hundred times maybe 200.
The 4224 about 5 times.
Haven’t turned on the new 3520 or the new 4224.
I never felt comfortable with the 4224 because the banjo and tailstock are too hard to work with.
The powermatic fixed the poor tool rest lock they had on the 3520.
The Powermatic does everything I needed it to do.
The AB is a pleasure to turn on. I would say it beats the 3520 and 4224 in every category you can name except perhaps the spindle lock. I like the Powermatic push button spindle lock. I only lock the spindle to tighten or lossen things on the spindle. One hand tightens/loosens the other pushes the button to lock. It is the most convenient of the spindle locks. The powermatic gets a lot of bad press because the button pops out. For me that is a feature. Wish the ONEWAY had that.
I think the ONEWAY 2416 is the best commercially available bowl turning lathe. adding the 17” outboard, the swinger, and maybe a second banjo Makes shortbed hollowing a lot faster on the outboard side than moving a headstock. Turn the outside of a bowl between centers then mount it in the chuck which you can leave on the outboard side for “stand in front of” hollowing.
I find it more convenient to use the shortbed side of a ONEWAY than moving the headstock on the Powermatic or the AB.
As said above the owners of powermatics, robust, are all,pleased with their machines.
So are the owners of ONEWAY, Vic Marc, ....
Are all pleased with their machines.
If the powermatic interests you, consider the Jet 1840 and spend the savings ina class at Arrowmont, Cambell, Marc Adams, or othe school. You might well be a happier turner on the 1840 with a more robust set of skills.
The 4224 about 5 times.
Haven’t turned on the new 3520 or the new 4224.
I never felt comfortable with the 4224 because the banjo and tailstock are too hard to work with.
The powermatic fixed the poor tool rest lock they had on the 3520.
The Powermatic does everything I needed it to do.
The AB is a pleasure to turn on. I would say it beats the 3520 and 4224 in every category you can name except perhaps the spindle lock. I like the Powermatic push button spindle lock. I only lock the spindle to tighten or lossen things on the spindle. One hand tightens/loosens the other pushes the button to lock. It is the most convenient of the spindle locks. The powermatic gets a lot of bad press because the button pops out. For me that is a feature. Wish the ONEWAY had that.
I think the ONEWAY 2416 is the best commercially available bowl turning lathe. adding the 17” outboard, the swinger, and maybe a second banjo Makes shortbed hollowing a lot faster on the outboard side than moving a headstock. Turn the outside of a bowl between centers then mount it in the chuck which you can leave on the outboard side for “stand in front of” hollowing.
I find it more convenient to use the shortbed side of a ONEWAY than moving the headstock on the Powermatic or the AB.
As said above the owners of powermatics, robust, are all,pleased with their machines.
So are the owners of ONEWAY, Vic Marc, ....
Are all pleased with their machines.
If the powermatic interests you, consider the Jet 1840 and spend the savings ina class at Arrowmont, Cambell, Marc Adams, or othe school. You might well be a happier turner on the 1840 with a more robust set of skills.
My first fullsize lathe was a Jet 1642 (1.5 hp). I was very happy with it for 6-7 years. It could do whatever I asked, and I took it to its limits. I then had a chance to buy a used 3520B at a good price. I used it for several years, but never liked it nearly as well as the 1642, which I had kept. One major complaint with both is the blocky profile of the headstock, which often got in the way on a variety of work I tried to do. One thing I found essential on both was the moving headstock. A couple years ago, I took a Derek Weidman class at Arrowmont, There were several Robust lathes in the classroom, I had heard good things, so I thought I'd try one out. I bought an AB soon after. I sold the PM (for almost 90% of what I had paid 5 years earlier); I have kept the 1642. I am very happy with the AB, I have never used a 4224.
For the record I turn on a Vicmarc and yes Al is correct that I am very happy with my purchase and the Oneway owners are as well. I did not mention that earlier since Ryan only spoke of the Powermatic and Robust. I would put emphasis on making sure you have safety gear/equipment over which lathe. It is expensive to replace lungs, eyes and hearing. I was stupid and now have lost 50% of my hearing in my left ear.
I do have most of the safety gear already, air filtration, respirator, bionic shield etc. I would like to add dedicated dust collection at the lathe but that will have to wait for a short while.......
Did you lose your hearing from using your lathe ? Many other tools are quite noisy, but not my lathe.
Kind regards,
Rich
I am a contractor. So the hum of equipment over the years is what they suspect. Only recently did I understand how noisy my lathe is when a friend came in while I was turning and said wow that is loud to someone who hasn't lost any hearing. The cutting and the lathe hum is what she was hearing (I was coring at the time). I guess we get used to it and don't think much about it until it is to late. Combine just regular turning with dust collectors, sanding drills, air compressors, blowing air, and etc. I think we all are lured into believing it is OK when it is not. Hearing loss is gradual and all of these things contribute so take care of your limbs, body, eyes, hearing, lungs and etc. before it is to late. I used to go by the mantra of buy what you can afford when it comes to purchasing a lathe. Now I believe in buying what you can afford after purchasing all of the safety equipment needed in our hobby/business. At least you will, most likely, be around to buy an upgraded lathe later if you find you need/want to make that purchase.
That is exactly what I decided to do. I spent $800 on an old Powermatic 90 (originally I was ready to buy a Oneway 2436) but I will be spending $2000 on a Clear Vue Cyclone (and I will also get a proper respirator/face shield) as you can not compromise with your lungs/health. After reading all of the info on fine dust - I'm amazed at the number of folks doing woodwork with cheap dust collectors. Pay now or pay later.
That is exactly why I moved my dust collector and air compressor to be outside my shop (I have a basement shop). Made a huge difference in the noise, and I didn’t see a big impact to the dust suction on the vac.
Kind regards,
Rich
After years of construction, I found out that just driving nails would damage your hearing. Add to that some loud concerts, and my hearing is off a bit.... One of the best ever purchases for my shop was a centralized dust collection system. The new filter, replacing the original one, filters down to .02 microns.... Compressor and DC will be in a sound insulated room. Now I just have to build all the cabinets for the new shop..... First one will be kind of 'rough' and the last one will look a lot better.....
robo hippy
robo hippy
We are straying to far from what the original poster was asking, sorry Ryan. I think I will start a new thread about shop safety from an equipment point of view and habits if folks want to add them in.
Your fine, all very good points to be considered.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2005
- Messages
- 12,897
- Likes
- 5,184
- Location
- Dalworthington Gardens, TX
- Website
- pbase.com
I don't understand your comment about the spindle lock. My recollection is that the spindle lock on the 3520 has always been a pain in the gluteus maximus because you needed to improvise a way to keep thr button depressed. On the Robust you simply flip a lever up to lock the spindle and flip it down to unlock it. It locks every 90° so you're never more than 45° from a lock position. I don't recall how many lock positions the 3520 has. And then there is the 48 position indexing if you need it. The 3520 doesn't have indexing.
The new 3520c has a better spindle lock than the a and b models. Turn the knob to the right to lock the spindle and turn to the left to unlock. It does not disengage the motor though like it does on the Robust. The 3520 has only two locking positions. The Robust's two additional locking positions may not seem like a big deal but I have a better chance of positioning a piece before locking the spindle like when I need to sand a winged bowl by hand. I would say that the Robust AB and new 3520c are equally as easy to use.
The 3520c has 48 positioning indexing as does the Robust AB. When the indexing pin on the 3520c is engaged there is still just a ever so slight amount of movement in the spindle. When the indexing pin on the AB is engaged its rock solid.
The 3520c has 48 positioning indexing as does the Robust AB. When the indexing pin on the 3520c is engaged there is still just a ever so slight amount of movement in the spindle. When the indexing pin on the AB is engaged its rock solid.
Ryan, I spent a lot of time and went through a couple lathes til I wound up with a Vicmarc 240. The Powermatic I have turned on a lot, mostly the 3520B but also the C--I didn't even consider the Powermatic when I narrowed things down-I think when you get to the AB you have 3 other lathes in that category, the Oneway 2436, The Vicmarc 300 and the Magma Black Titan. If I was doing it all again I would without question find a way to get a Magma Black Titan. Like many have said I think anyone who gets any one of these lathes will be happy with their lathe. I can tell you that I have heard a lot of inside information about Powermatic, that leads me to believe that they are cutting back on their qc management trying to reduce costs of their products, and thereby increase profitability....Good luck in your search, I will tell you that turning on all of the above mentioned lathes the Vicmarc, the Robust AB, and the Magma lathe stood out to me in both performance and features.
Best regards--Don
Best regards--Don
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2004
- Messages
- 8,637
- Likes
- 4,976
- Location
- Lakeland, Florida
- Website
- www.hockenberywoodturning.com
Most folks don’t like it because it is spring loaded and does not stay locked without a push. That is the essence of its convenience. Instant unlock as opposed to the twist-lock/twist-unlock. I though I explained that. I don’t do any two hand operations that require the spindle to stay locked.
As reported by @Damon McLaughlin powermatic took away that feature and has made it a twist- lock.
If I was looking for a new lathe in this price range I would also look at a new Stubby S-750. I don't think there is any question the Powermatics and the Robusts are all top notch lathes. But I have been turning on a Stubby S-750 for about eight years and I am totally pleased with everything about it. The sliding ways, auxiliary ways, extra banjo, and light weight tail stock are all important and unique features that I would not like to be without. For bowls and hollowing it sure is nice to be able to stand at the end of the lathe with free and close access to your work.
Contrary to poplar belief Stubbys are still being made and supported by the original company in Australia. I recently lost a small and unique part of my tail stock. I did not even know what the part looked like. I contacted the company in Australia and they responded immediately with an offer to ship a new part at a very reasonable cost. They also sent a sketch of the part and told me how to make a replacement with a brass rod, hacksaw and file, which I did.
Send me a PM if you are interested.
Contrary to poplar belief Stubbys are still being made and supported by the original company in Australia. I recently lost a small and unique part of my tail stock. I did not even know what the part looked like. I contacted the company in Australia and they responded immediately with an offer to ship a new part at a very reasonable cost. They also sent a sketch of the part and told me how to make a replacement with a brass rod, hacksaw and file, which I did.
Send me a PM if you are interested.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2005
- Messages
- 12,897
- Likes
- 5,184
- Location
- Dalworthington Gardens, TX
- Website
- pbase.com
The original owner Omega Tool & Engineering closed in 2013 and a new company AMP Engineering Solutions acquired the Stubby lathe business. I suspect that some of the Omega employees are involved in the new company. For a while they weren't interested in exporting the lathes. Somewhere along the way they apparently realized their mistake and now sell direct to overseas customers. Although I've never turned on a Stubby, I have fondled one back when Bill Rubenstein was the US distributor. I agree it is one of the top tier lathes.
Bill, thanks for the correction. I wasn't keenly aware of the previous name. I should have been because it's cast in the metal somewhere on my lathe, as is John Jordan's name. I had never given that much thought until he was in my shop one day soon after I bought the lathe, and he pointed it out.
That Titan lathe does look interesting. Massive headstock, but I don't know how it pivots. The "if it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it any way" side of me has often pondered making my own lathe. I could take bits and pieces from a number of lathes and put them together for some thing better.... If only I had another 50 years to live, an engineering team, and had won that $1.6 billion lottery......
robo hippy
robo hippy
Thanks everybody for the input. After much consideration I decided on the Robust AB.........I really like the idea of stainless ways and American made. Also customer service and support is huge and I think they are top notch. So now it’s 8-10 weeks of dreaming and waiting........sigh
Congrats!!
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2005
- Messages
- 12,897
- Likes
- 5,184
- Location
- Dalworthington Gardens, TX
- Website
- pbase.com
Congratulations. I find Brent English very easy to talk to. My personal experience is that he really listens to me and is truly interested in whatever I have to say. It's a very rare and pleasant experience in today's business world.
Agree Bill, and his wife was also very knowledgeable and great to deal with as well.
The owner now is the son of the original engineer founder. Rod Caddaye has been there since the very first welded prototype was built. I just ordered a new Stubby 1000. They have the best customer service.