Robust American Beauty, 2 or 3 hp?

[Damon McLaughlin]

I haven't decided yet if I will pull the trigger and get an AB but I thought I would ask a couple questions while I ponder my Powermatic 3520c dilemma.

For those that have the AB do you find 2hp to be enough power or is the 3hp really recommended? I turn miniatures as well as large platters and a few large bowls. I have the Oneway easy core and have used it with no problem on my Jet 1.5hp lathe so I was thinking that the Robust's 2hp would be find if I'm not overly aggressive.

I'm also trying to decide between the long bed and the short bed to which I can add a bed extension later if I decided I need the extra length. My shop is small and while both would fit I wouldn't have to move a cabinet out if I got the short bed.

To get the lathe from the crate to the inside of my shop which is a small shed I know that I would need the caster set but once the lathe is in place I don't see ever needing the casters again. $400 for the casters is a lot to spend if I only foresee using them one time. Is there another way to move the lathe safely?

Damon

 

[hockenbery]

Is there another way to move the lathe safely?

Easily moved with various moving aids -pallet jack, dolleys, boat trailer wheel jack, hand truck....

If you have a couple of sturdy furniture moving dollys it is easy to move a lathe.
Remove the tailstock and banjo.
Slide the headstock to the fare end and LOCK it. Tilt it up slide the dolly under. Move the headstock over the dolly on the other end tilt up and put a dolley under. When moving hold it by the headstock, be sure the headstock is locked.

A floor jack will lift the end of the lathe and provide clearance for some dolleys.

A padded hand truck can be used on one end.


If you can carry the headstock then it can be take off too.
Never drop a headstock!!!!

Be careful not the scratch the lathe or drop any casting

 

[Ronald Plumley]

As far as horsepower on the motor... my personal rule of thumb is to get as much as you can afford when you can... even if you never plan to do anything that would require it. It's always nice to have that little something extra available to you... who knows what you're going to get interested in down the road...

 

[Damon McLaughlin]

Thank you both for your input.

For those that have the AB with the tailstock swing away, how far away from the wall would the center of the lathe (center of the bed) have to be for the tailstock to completely rotate out of the way without hitting the wall? Hope that made sense.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I have the 2 HP Robust and it has plenty of power. Maybe the only reason to get the 3 HP option would be if you plan to do coring. Occasionally I wish that I had the 3 HP option, but not for any valid reason ... just wanting more power. I can do coring, but just need to go a bit slower. Thousands of woodturners have used the 2 HP Powermatic 3520 without any problem. I have turned some bowls up to 19 inches without a hint of a problem and I have some larger pieces of wood that are just waiting for me to get an engine hoist from Harbor Freight.

I have the wheel set for my Robust and I use them all the time mainly because I usually turn outdoors on the driveway apron. I keep the lathe in the garage and only turn small projects there and never sand in the garage. I replaced the screw jack that is part of the wheel set with a trolley jack from Harbor Freight. I removed the hook from the screw jack and put it on the trolley jack so that it would securely hold the lathe while raising and lowering it.

I would suggest going with the standard bed lathe. The long bed is really long and would only be useful if you planned to do hollowforms taller than two feet. The outboard option is really nice and it enables me to do tall hollowforms by putting the trap on the outboard post. Also, the Robust steady rest is very heavy duty and I am glad that that I bought it.

 

[Donovan Bailey]

You will wish you had the 3 hp if you find yourself doing any coring whatsoever. In fact, I am going to be the first in line whenever Brent English finally thinks it is a good idea to do a 4 HP upgrade. My advice is don't compromise on the HP because I can even stall my 3 HP on a 22ish" blank . I have the wheel set too and (like Bill) use it to move my machine outside occasionally whenever I need to do some nasty sanding...and I like to occasionally turn in the sunlight. You will not need the kit if you are only going to just occasionally move your lathe. You can quickly and easily move it by using a car jack (from Harbor Freight) and a couple of those $15 freight dollies (Harbor Freight). I don't think that you will find a better quality lathe on today's market or any better service support than a Robust...I tried to. I rolled mine out of a great shipping container, plugged it in, and immediately started turning. There was not a single scratch on the paint and I didn't have to do a single adjustment. Also second what Bill said...you only need the long bed version if you plan on doing some serious serious hollowing or some long long spindle work. If not, it is just wasted space.

 

[Donovan Bailey]

Thank you both for your input.

For those that have the AB with the tailstock swing away, how far away from the wall would the center of the lathe (center of the bed) have to be for the tailstock to completely rotate out of the way without hitting the wall? Hope that made sense.

I'm looking right at 19" from the back of the lathe to the end of the extended tailstock (which is the wheel).

 

[Bill Boehme]

I think that a more useful number would be the distance beyond where the lathe feet hit the floor. That distance is variable by a small amount depending on the lathe height. On my lathe it is about 10½" based on my quick and dirty measurement.

Just my 2¢, but I wouldn't have the lathe close to a wall. If possible, have it angled away from the wall about 45° so that you have room to set up a steady rest and hollowing rig. When working on a hollowform your boring bar will need room on the backside. The last thing that I need is a tool handle bumping against a wall.

 

[Damon McLaughlin]

I think that a more useful number would be the distance beyond where the lathe feet hit the floor. That distance is variable by a small amount depending on the lathe height. On my lathe it is about 10½" based on my quick and dirty measurement.

Just my 2¢, but I wouldn't have the lathe close to a wall. If possible, have it angled away from the wall about 45° so that you have room to set up a steady rest and hollowing rig. When working on a hollowform your boring bar will need room on the backside. The last thing that I need is a tool handle bumping against a wall.

Bill, I wish I could angle it away from the wall buy my shop is only 12x16 and there just isn't room to angle it. Unless I remove the table saw which I prefer not to. I'll keep playing with ideas.

I do like to hollow but I think that the short bed with extension would work for hollowing as well. I suspect it will be two years before I start a bigger shop and I know that when I get it I might like the long bed. But I think the short bed would accomplish 90% of my turning and with the extension I can probably accomplish the other 10%.

I received word that the fourth Powermatic 3520c will be delivered tomorrow, we'll see how that goes and if it leads me down the path to a Robust AB.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

I received word that the fourth Powermatic 3520c will be delivered tomorrow, we'll see how that goes

Good Luck!

 

[hockenbery]

received word that the fourth Powermatic 3520c will be delivered tomorrow, we'll see how that goe

Wishing you success with this one.

 

[R Henrickson]

I received word that the fourth Powermatic 3520c will be delivered tomorrow, we'll see how that goes and if it leads me down the path to a Robust AB.

I would have given up after #2!
As for the initial question -- go for the 3hp on an AB? -- it represents a very small fraction of the overall cost. I would go for it (and did).

 

[robo hippy]

I have the 3 hp AB. I got that as a standard because I wanted more muscle. The 2 hp has plenty of muscle for coring (well my 3520A did), but coring should be on the low speed range, not the high speed range. I did get one of the early ones, 10 years ago, and it has 3 speed ranges rather than 2, which I prefer and I keep it on the middle speed range, not too fast, not too slow, just right.... I did have Brent help me adjust the speed settings. Mid range goes from about 10 to 2200. I need the 10 rpm for sanding my warped bowls..

The mobility kit is a necessity for me for convenience purposes. In the new shop I will have a couple of lathes for work shops and play dates, and it is on a level slab. Makes moving it around simple. I got mine back to the old shop by laying out some wafer board and using the wheels, and a couple of friends. On concrete, it is easy to move along, but it helps to have a second person with you to help steer. You can remove the banjo and tailstock, and with the motor at one end it isn't too difficult for two guys with 'minds that are weak and backs that are strong' to lift one end up onto a dolly (3rd guy to slide the dolly under), and then slice the motor to the dolly end and repeat on the other end. I think I used a couple of 4 by 4s to lever mine off the crate, but it was a long time ago....

I got the extended bed. I did some table legs on the old PM, and it was 35 inches between centers, which means that I could just fit a 29 1/4 inch table leg in with the live center on the tailstock. 30 inches would have been problematic... I don't think I have used the full length more than once or twice, but may need it soon.

If you want to remove the headstock to move it, it is hard wired into the phase converter, so that has to come off too. I have done that with my Liberty, but the headstock is very awkward to handle.

As for how far away from the wall, well, I never measured. I had mine in a separate room, 8 by 12. There is a small divot in the sheet rock from the hand wheel from when I tip it out of the way. I do really like the set up. I do have the old one that didn't have the little piston assist thing.

I did chat with Brent about a bigger motor. They take a huge jump in size after 3 hp. I think Vicmarc did make one with a 5 hp motor. I can stall my Beauty with a 1 inch wide scraper on a 10 inch bowl if I want to.

robo hippy

 

[JeffSmith]

I agree with Bill on the tilt-away’s dimension to the wall. The distance the tailstock sits beyond the leg width (with the tailstock swung down) is only 7”, so 10” to the wall from there seems reasonable. That said, I’m glad mine has access all the way around rather than sitting next to a wall. Much easier to clean up. While I do have the wheels for it - they haven’t been used since I moved to the new shop.

The cost of the 3hp upgrade is small compared to the wheels, and Al is right on the money on how to move it easily. Every time I’ve bought a new vehicle I’ve tried to scrimp on accessories - my wife finally said to get what I wanted, the additional cost as a percentage of the overall buy is often minimal. I’m always glad I listened.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I agree with Bill on the tilt-away’s dimension to the wall. The distance the tailstock sits beyond the leg width (with the tailstock swung down) is only 7”, so 10” to the wall from there seems reasonable. That said, I’m glad mine has access all the way around rather than sitting next to a wall. Much easier to clean up. While I do have the wheels for it - they haven’t been used since I moved to the new shop.

The cost of the 3hp upgrade is small compared to the wheels, and Al is right on the money on how to move it easily. Every time I’ve bought a new vehicle I’ve tried to scrimp on accessories - my wife finally said to get what I wanted, the additional cost as a percentage of the overall buy is often minimal. I’m always glad I listened.

You brought up a good point that never occurred to me ... the cost to upgrade to the 3 HP motor compared to the cost of the wheel set.

It was purely a self-imposed restraint to not go with the 3 HP option since my wife gave her approval to get whatever I wanted. I just didn't want to create the appearance of making a complete pig of myself ... not that there's anything wrong with that.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj3VphK9AMk

 

[Donovan Bailey]

I did chat with Brent about a bigger motor. They take a huge jump in size after 3 hp. I think Vicmarc did make one with a 5 hp motor. I can stall my Beauty with a 1 inch wide scraper on a 10 inch bowl if I want to.

robo hippy

If Brent ever gives us a 5 HP option for my Beauty, I'd have to figure out how to modify my Resp-O-Rator to keep it in my mouth because I don't think that I could turn without smiling all the time.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

Bill, I wish I could angle it away from the wall buy my shop is only 12x16 and there just isn't room to angle it. Unless I remove the table saw which I prefer not to. I'll keep playing with ideas.

I do like to hollow but I think that the short bed with extension would work for hollowing as well. I suspect it will be two years before I start a bigger shop and I know that when I get it I might like the long bed. But I think the short bed would accomplish 90% of my turning and with the extension I can probably accomplish the other 10%.

I received word that the fourth Powermatic 3520c will be delivered tomorrow, we'll see how that goes and if it leads me down the path to a Robust AB.

I put a caster set on my table saw, not the lathe. I use the saw less than the lathe and I like the lathe to be the center of attention-- afterall, an American Beauty should be the center of attention. And, its a 3HP with a short bed.

 

[Donovan Bailey]

I put a caster set on my table saw, not the lathe. I use the saw less than the lathe and I like the lathe to be the center of attention-- afterall, an American Beauty should be the center of attention. And, its a 3HP with a short bed.

What is a table saw???

 

[hockenbery]

What is a table saw???

It is flat surface capable of holding many turning tools, blanks, and a few pieces in various states of finish.

 

[Bill Boehme]

What is a table saw???

It is flat surface capable of holding many turning tools, blanks, and a few pieces in various states of finish.

Beneath the flat storage surface there is an odd assortment of pulleys, belts, bell cranks,, big motor, etc. the purpose of which is to provide ballast for this solidly built table. There have been some unsubstantiated internet rumors that this storage table can be used to cut flat boards. They said the same thing about the radial arm saw, a smaller and lighter weight storage table.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

It is flat surface capable of holding many turning tools, blanks, and a few pieces in various states of finish.

Could have sworn you were talking about a router table.

 

[olaf Vogel]

If Brent ever gives us a 5 HP option for my Beauty, I'd have to figure out how to modify my Resp-O-Rator to keep it in my mouth because I don't think that I could turn without smiling all the time.

I’ve got 5 hp (not a AB) and gearing to maintain torque at low rpms.
Wouldn’t do without it.

And on big, long push cuts I can still get the belts to slip.

In general, more power is better. Especially if you wish to remove a lot of material quickly
But it obviously depends on what type of work you are doing,

 

[Donovan Bailey]

I’ve got 5 hp (not a AB) and gearing to maintain torque at low rpms.
Wouldn’t do without it.

You are a lucky, lucky man, Olaf. Who made/mfg'd your lathe?

 

[John Spitters]

By the simple fact that you are asking about whether to get the 2 or 3hp. model means you really want the 3hp. So just do it. It’s one decision you won’t regret.

 

[Damon McLaughlin]

The fourth Powermatic 3520c was delivered a few days ago. I sent the regional sales manager an email and have been waiting for a reply. Next step by then end of next week is a certified letter and a phone call to Mr. Varzino. Until the Powermatic issues are resolved my decision to keep the Powermatic or get a Robust AB will be on hold.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Is there a problem with #4? It would be hard to believe, but you seem to be plagued by misfortune. Is there a dark cloud floating over your head (remember Joe Btfsplk in the Li'l Abner comic strip)?

 

[Damon McLaughlin]

Is there a problem with #4?

View attachment 26685

Hi Bill,

I think that it would be best until I get things resolved with Powermatic before posting anything further comments about my difficult lathe purchase. When its all said and done I can then just post what my purchase experience was and if I was happy or not at the end. Its fair to say that I am not currently happy.

Is there a dark cloud floating over your head (remember Joe Btfsplk in the Li'l Abner comic strip)?

View attachment 26685

I like to think I'm a nice guy that has always stayed out of trouble, worked hard and served my country. On August 14 the regional sales manager for Powermatic asked how horrible of a guy am I to have such bad karma. While probably joking it struck a nerve with me because just prior he was blaming the shipping company, CSUSA and others for all the issues. Felt like he was blaming me. But I know that your comment was jokingly said and all I can do at this point is laugh.

 

[Steve Doerr]

Damon, good luck on your Powermatic issue.

To answer you question about placement location, I have mine about two foot from the wall with the tilt-away down. I did this so that I could get around it to clean and to move my duct for dust collection system close to the wood being turned. Even with this space, I wish that it was further away, or I was more careful, because I have banged my thigh several times on the tail stock when it has been down. Just another perspective for you to consider.

Good luck.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Hi Bill,

I think that it would be best until I get things resolved with Powermatic before posting anything further comments about my difficult lathe purchase. When its all said and done I can then just post what my purchase experience was and if I was happy or not at the end. Its fair to say that I am not currently happy.


I like to think I'm a nice guy that has always stayed out of trouble, worked hard and served my country. On August 14 the regional sales manager for Powermatic asked how horrible of a guy am I to have such bad karma. While probably joking it struck a nerve with me because just prior he was blaming the shipping company, CSUSA and others for all the issues. Felt like he was blaming me. But I know that your comment was jokingly said and all I can do at this point is laugh.

Any new chapters in this saga, Damon? We're all rootin' for you.

 

[Damon McLaughlin]

Any new chapters in this saga, Damon? We're all rootin' for you.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for reminding me to post an update. I was able to work things out with lathe number four. It turned out that there was a loose wire and with all the connections tightened the lathe is working fine. While frustrated that it took so long to get a lathe, the one that was lost in transit and the other that was damaged in transit wasn't the fault of Powermatic. Rather they have been okay to work with and after several months, in the end they got me a working 3520c.

However.... because of my frustration over the last several months and the experience of it all I decided to go ahead and order a Robust American Beauty a couple days ago. Its the lathe that I had dreamed of having anyway and I'm excited to be getting one. I ordered the standard bed with tilt away and a few other options. The standard bed will fit perfectly in my small shop and if I have a need in the future for more distance between centers I'll have the option of the bed extension. Oh, I did get the 3hp upgrade. I agree that it was the right way to go.

The funny thing is it wasn't until a day after placing my order with Brent that I was able to fix the Powermatic. Maybe it was karma's way of telling me that I deserved the AB. I should add that Brent has been great both by email and over the phone. Just so that I'm not without a lathe for the next eight weeks I decided to hold off on selling the Powermatic until the AB is ready to ship. I decided to sell my Oneway coring system and Carter multirest as well since they won't fit the AB, I'm pretty sure all of my other toys will.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Well ain't that somethin'!
I am glad you were finally able to get matters resolved with Powermatic. But after all of that I can't imagine any one who deserves an American Beauty more!
Congratulations!

 

[Steve Doerr]

Damon, if you are looking for a new bowl steady rest, Robust has a really heavy duty one. I ordered mine shortly after I got my AB. I had Brent put the arms at about 1:30, 5:00 and 9:00. That way they weren't in the way of my laser/camera for my hollowing system.

 

[Damon McLaughlin]

Damon, if you are looking for a new bowl steady rest, Robust has a really heavy duty one. I ordered mine shortly after I got my AB. I had Brent put the arms at about 1:30, 5:00 and 9:00. That way they weren't in the way of my laser/camera for my hollowing system.

Hi Steve,

I did order one of Robust's steady rests with the top arm offset for my camera hollowing system. I'm also thinking of the Oneway Bowl Steady as that can be used for large platters. I haven't decided yet on the latter.