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Random Orbital Sander (ROS)

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Is there a ROS solution out there (air or electric) that handles low grit as well as higher grit sanding chores for us turners? Anybody have any feedback on the Metabo 3"? I have tried an older model of the GREX and it worked fine for higher grit duty...but came up short for the lower grits. Have they made improvements on newer models? I currently power-sand the lower grits and hand-sand the higher grits...and I'm always carrying the candle of hope that I will stumble on a suitable ROS solution some day.
 
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First off, do a forum search on the Metabo: http://www.aawforum.org...=metabo&o=date&c[node]=2
I’ve used one for over 10 years. It’s great on the outside of a bowl, but the shape isn’t very friendly doing the inside bottom. Regardless, I love mine because there are really so few options out there but wish it had a slimmer handle profile and an angled head rather than 90° to the handle.
 
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A few years ago I was looking for a ROS also because I just didn’t like using my angle drill.

I built a 3” round custom sanding interface for my fein detail sander. It works real well on both inside and outside of bowls with the lathe at rest. I’m sure the idea would work with less expensive brands.

I reduced a 5 inch rubber backing pad to 3 inches.(original shown in picture) Screwed it into the Fein with loc tite and glued a hook and loop interface pad to it. I punched a hole through the interface pad to allow for the connecting screw and washer. I use thread lock so that the vibration does not lose the connection.image.jpgimage.jpg
 

Dennis J Gooding

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First off, do a forum search on the Metabo: http://www.aawforum.org...=metabo&o=date&c[node]=2
I’ve used one for over 10 years. It’s great on the outside of a bowl, but the shape isn’t very friendly doing the inside bottom. Regardless, I love mine because there are really so few options out there but wish it had a slimmer handle profile and an angled head rather than 90° to the handle.

I would echo Owen's comments on the Metabo unit
 

odie

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Is there a ROS solution out there (air or electric) that handles low grit as well as higher grit sanding chores for us turners? Anybody have any feedback on the Metabo 3"? I have tried an older model of the GREX and it worked fine for higher grit duty...but came up short for the lower grits. Have they made improvements on newer models? I currently power-sand the lower grits and hand-sand the higher grits...and I'm always carrying the candle of hope that I will stumble on a suitable ROS solution some day.

Pardon me, Donovan.......but, I'm having difficulty comprehending why anyone would need a ROS for anything but the very fine grits. To my thinking, any inappropriate scratches that are not sufficiently removed by a previous grit, are more easily removed by said previous grit in a more traditional power sanding manner. (....a disc spinning on a fixed axis.)

A ROS really excels in the fine grits, because it's here where any scratches left will become more noticeable after the finish is applied, and under certain lighting conditions. Normal, or "appropriate" scratches left by the course grits are easily removed by all the increasingly fine grits that are used to follow up the course grits.

Of course, I'm always open to examining my own viewpoints on these things.....so, if you feel there is something I'm missing here, tell me (us) what it is that you feel I should re-evaluate.

-----odie-----
 

Emiliano Achaval

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Is there a ROS solution out there (air or electric) that handles low grit as well as higher grit sanding chores for us turners? Anybody have any feedback on the Metabo 3"? I have tried an older model of the GREX and it worked fine for higher grit duty...but came up short for the lower grits. Have they made improvements on newer models? I currently power-sand the lower grits and hand-sand the higher grits...and I'm always carrying the candle of hope that I will stumble on a suitable ROS solution some day.
I have a Metabo ROS. It's a great machine. I use different pads, stiffer for lower grits and soft and softer for finer grits. Whenever possible I use it, outside and inside.
 
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Another question is, what are lower grits? (I'm in the South, no jokes on the poor maligned grit:D) I've used the Grex and found the same, not as efficient at lower grits (120 and under?). So usually I use my angle drill and switch to the Grex for finish sanding. If I get the right finish off the tool, and that depends on a lot of things, me, the tool, the wood etc. starting at 240 or 320 works with the Grex.
The problem I'm having now is because someone asked, "Why are you running a 5 horse compressor when a few amp electric sander would suffice?" and I said Hm... because I already bought it?:rolleyes:
 
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Thanks to all of you. Good info...and I'll give the Metabo a shot, Emiliano. Clifton, you made me laugh. When I went to college I discovered that there were people in the world that didn't eat grits. Up to that time, I honestly couldn't possibly eat an egg unless there were grits somewhere on the plate. Also, it was when I was a newbie in the Army that I first saw one of my NY friends put sugar and milk on grits. I pretty much had to stifle my gag reflex but I had fun talking about it with the folks back home.
 

Steve Worcester

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I have owned a Grex (pneumatic) for years, and I I don't like it at all, it stalls too easy. And in all fairness, every RO I have tried does
Is the Metabo the same way? I want a random orbit that is like a drill or electric right angle sander. I want to put on the power and go. No stalling, no pedalling, just mow out wood.
 
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A friend bought this https://woodturnerswonders.com/collections/random-orbital-sanders at TAW this year and he loves the results he is getting.

This looks like a great little unit. Any idea what the speed range is?
All the ROS units I've tried are very high speed at no load, then slow down very dramatically because they have no torque.

Thats my number 1 complaint.
Number 2 is weight. Having it pneumatic eliminates the motor and should reduce weight a lot.
 
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I have the Metabo ROS. I think it is okay for the light grits like 320,400 and above. In my opinion, I also think the shape is not that conducive to a lot of forms, but on larger bowls it does well. I have basically gone to wet sanding after the first sanding sequence up through 220, then go wet, with thinned finish like Antique Oil, or even walnut oil. All in all, my satisfaction with the Metabo is a bit on the disappointed side. :(
 
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Dynabrade makes a huge assortment of ROS's with a bunch of 3" models. I have a 5" and love the results. Their are drawbacks...noise, dust collection is not the best, and they take lots of air.
 

Donna Banfield

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ROS have their place in woodturning, in my humble opinion. Their greatest value/asset is using the sander for the higher grits (220 and up). Their single drawback, which to the average woodturner who came to, and is attracted to the immediate gratification that woodturning can offer compared to all other woodworking, is that it is not a time saver. The sander cannot be used while the lathe is rotating, because the random orbit will match the rotation of the lathe, and you end up with a spirograph pattern, very apparent on the bottom of your bowls. Don't ask me how I know this :)

That said, I have used the ROS for lower grits, when a powered corded sander was not an option - for example, when the piece was turned to final thickness, and allowed to warp as it dried. Even the best off-the-tool finish still needs lower than 220 grit on a piece that was turned green and allowed to dry. I know the limitations and work with them. And for these pieces, I do not try to sand while the lathe is spinning the work. Know the tool's limitations, don't expect it to be the miracle cure to cut your sanding time, and you may find it to be a fine tool in your tool chest.
 
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I'm wondering if those that have a Metabo notice a growling sound like the bearings are going out? I did and took it to an authorized repair center only to be told it was fine and charged $75.
 
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I have owned a Grex (pneumatic) for years, and I I don't like it at all, it stalls too easy. And in all fairness, every RO I have tried does
Is the Metabo the same way? I want a random orbit that is like a drill or electric right angle sander. I want to put on the power and go. No stalling, no pedalling, just mow out wood.

I have used a Grex very successfully for many years. I find that if it stalls it because I am pressing too hard. Light pressure will result in a very nice finish quite rapidly.
 

odie

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I have used a Grex very successfully for many years. I find that if it stalls it because I am pressing too hard. Light pressure will result in a very nice finish quite rapidly.

My findings are the same. ;)

When I first got my Grex, I was probably like many others.....there was disappointment. That is, until I had some more hands on time with it. Truth is.....I simply had unrealistic expectations. Instead of letting an initial evaluation of just what RO sanding should have been equate to failure, I re-evaluated what should be, and adjusted to what is. :rolleyes:

My thought is probably all the brands of RO sanders are capable of producing that fine finish we all desire. It's all a matter of acquired perspective, and what the expectations are. Time in the saddle will change both perspective, and expectations!

RO sanding has never been a method of aggressive sanding.....it's a light, delicate kind of sanding that's best used just prior to applying a finish. :D

-----odie-----
Image031.JPG
One thing I would consider, if I had to do it over again.....is to find an electrically powered unit. The trouble with pneumatic sanders, is they need to be oiled. The oil is supplied through the air supply, and necessarily ends up coming out with the exhaust. If that oil spits onto your turning, or gets transferred there by your hands, the oil can have a ruinous effect. I've overcome that problem through awareness......but, I can remember having some difficulty with this awhile back.
 
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Emiliano Achaval

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I really like my Metabo sander. It is best used with finer grits. It has never bogged down for me. Mine has never growled, lol. With very fine grits I use a thick very soft pad, doesn't last long but they are cheap, I consider them disposable like the sand paper. I have somewhere in my shop some pneumatic grinders, never really liked them because the awkward hose, plus my first giant compressor was super loud. I now have a Makita small compressor that is super quiet, inside a cabinet, I have a soft hose on a reel, very convenient.
 
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Bill Boehme

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... RO sanding has never been a method of aggressive sanding.....it's a light, delicate kind of sanding that's best used just prior to applying a finish. :D

One thing I would consider, if I had to do it over again.....is to find an electrically powered unit. The trouble with pneumatic sanders, is they need to be oiled.

Now that you mention the purpose of RO sanding, it's obvious that RO is to minimize the scratch pattern. If you want to do aggressive sanding then you really aren't too interested in the scratch pattern at that point.

Besides oil there are two other things that I don't like about pneumatic sanders.
  1. The air motor uses lots of air and all that air is always blowing in the most inconvenient direction.
  2. Air motors are extremely noisy.
I have a bunch of air tools and most havent been used in years. I also agree with Emiliano about the stiff hose and noisy air compressor.
 

odie

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I have a bunch of air tools and most havent been used in years. I also agree with Emiliano about the stiff hose and noisy air compressor.

Ha,ha......same here, Bill :D

I have many air tools......all originally purchased back in the 1980's, I believe. All were originally intended to help with sanding bowls. They are pretty much dormant these days......but, do occasionally come in handy for other shop activities. (That small angle grinder on the left is the best darn thing there ever was for quick sharpening of lawnmower blades, without removing the blade! Takes about five minutes, used with a small metal grinding disc. ;))
Image035.JPG
This was all before I discovered the Milwaukee and Sioux (old style) angle drills......which I consider the "Cadillac" of powered drills for bowl sanding:
Image028.JPG


-----odie-----
 
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Emiliano: As discussed, I've been putting my new Metabo through its paces. I'm surprised at the amount of power that it has. Of course the first thing I did on a big cherry bowl was to put on some 80 grit and dial it up on its high setting...and promptly melt a backing pad. I am definitely going to have to spend some time in the saddle to figure out how to get the best out of this tool. The size of the disc is a little nonstandard but Vince's sanding discs seem to be a perfect solution. What is your backing pad strategy aligned to the various grits?
 

Emiliano Achaval

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Emiliano: As discussed, I've been putting my new Metabo through its paces. I'm surprised at the amount of power that it has. Of course the first thing I did on a big cherry bowl was to put on some 80 grit and dial it up on its high setting...and promptly melt a backing pad. I am definitely going to have to spend some time in the saddle to figure out how to get the best out of this tool. The size of the disc is a little nonstandard but Vince's sanding discs seem to be a perfect solution. What is your backing pad strategy aligned to the various grits?
I have a drawer full of different sanding pads. I usually start with 100 grit, using a backer pad with a medium density pad. I go with the medium till 150. I go with a soft pad from 180 on. I do not like the Metabo for the odd or random 80 grit gouge job, I prefer the angle drill for that. Luckily its been a while since I had to go to that. The soft pads do not last long, if I get 3 or 4 months I'm happy. Also, I have ordered pads and discs from the 3 companies that in my opinion are good, and have nice products, The sanding glove, Vince's wood & Wonders, and Ken Rizza. My favorite sanding disc is the Norton blue, from the sanding glove... Pads, I have lost track of who sells what, I just pick them out of the drawer by feel... Would like to hear your opinion after you have used it a while. Aloha
 
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I have a Metabo, and use it regularly. I think it performs about the same as a drill (rotating disk) in terms of "time per grit". It seems to wear out the sandpaper much faster than the drill. Anyone else notice this?
Also, I am not sure about using soft interface pads with an ROS. Seems to me they would absorb too much of the vibration energy, thus defeating the purpose of the tool.
 
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I am a relative beginner compared to most of you. Shortly after I started turning, I bought a Harbor Freight right angle, variable speed, reversible drill and have used it sometimes to sand the inside of bowls. However, on smaller bowls, it's very hard to get inside with this tool, so I've gone mostly to sanding with paper held by my hands.

Second, any ROS I've used for other woodworking tasks has been made to sand merely by its own weight rather than requiring extra force applied by the user. Any extra force applied by the user will generally interfere with the random orbit pattern, either slowing down or stopping the rotation. That generally gives undesirable results; namely some scratches remain, depending on the tool and brand.

As for the growling Metabo sander, that could very well be normal for that sander. Festool's track saw "growls" during use because the motor is designed to adjust to the load placed on it during the cut. I'm not sure why it has to "growl" but many a Festool track saw user has been concerned about the sound with no reason. This Metabo sander may have the same type of electronically controlled load adjusting motor.

I don't have a 3" ROS for sanding on the lathe but find that, when I am able use my right angle drill, I get great results. I think that's because the disk and the bowl are turning opposite to each other (when the lathe is in forward mode). I'm just curious but, is there any reason an ROS would give better results than a right angle drill/sander on the lathe? I understand why it gives great results on flat surfaces but the right angle drill seems to solve that problem on a spinning lathe.
 
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Ha,ha......same here, Bill :D

I have many air tools......all originally purchased back in the 1980's, I believe. All were originally intended to help with sanding bowls. They are pretty much dormant these days......but, do occasionally come in handy for other shop activities. (That small angle grinder on the left is the best darn thing there ever was for quick sharpening of lawnmower blades, without removing the blade! Takes about five minutes, used with a small metal grinding disc. ;))
View attachment 25942

-----odie-----

Hi Odie

are any of these "low" speed? Most air tools I;ve seen are in the 15,000 rpm range. Which I find way too fast.\
So it burns the wood & paper, but doesn't remove wood very well. Adding pressure slows them, since they lack torque. But then its a game of getting the pressure right, to determine the speed.

I've also used electric tools (car buffers) for sanding.
But would prefer something compact (and lighter) like an air tool.
 

odie

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Hi Odie

are any of these "low" speed? Most air tools I;ve seen are in the 15,000 rpm range. Which I find way too fast.\
So it burns the wood & paper, but doesn't remove wood very well. Adding pressure slows them, since they lack torque. But then its a game of getting the pressure right, to determine the speed.

I've also used electric tools (car buffers) for sanding.
But would prefer something compact (and lighter) like an air tool.

Olaf......the drills on the right are slow speed. I agree that the grinders never did work out very well. The three grinders on the left definitely do earn their keep with other things around the shop, tho. The drills could be used on the lathe, but I had problems with them spitting oil on my work. I would not recommend using air tools for use on turning wood.....but, I do know there are other turners who do, and are happy with them.

-----odie-----
 
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It's my experience that the people that don't like the Metabo try and use it like a grinder. People that use a drill and sanding pad to remove any bruising or lines in the wood, then use the Metabo to sand out the sanding scratches made from the drill and disc love them. I never use the Metabo at full speed and don't push the sander into the work. Just let it do it's job. I absolutely use an interface pad. The stock pad on the Metabo is pretty expensive. On my larger work, I use a 5" diameter Bosch random orbit sander on the interior and exterior and am very happy with it.
 
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Olaf......the drills on the right are slow speed. I agree that the grinders never did work out very well. The three grinders on the left definitely do earn their keep with other things around the shop, tho. The drills could be used on the lathe, but I had problems with them spitting oil on my work. I would not recommend using air tools for use on turning wood.....but, I do know there are other turners who do, and are happy with them.

-----odie-----

I like the small angle drill - exactly what I need.

Re: the oil spitting. Did you have an air oil separator inline with the main air output?
That "should" solve the problem?
 

Bill Boehme

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I like the small angle drill - exactly what I need.

Re: the oil spitting. Did you have an air oil separator inline with the main air output?
That "should" solve the problem?

It's not oil from the compressor, but oil from the air tool. I presume that Odie does like I do and puts a couple drops of oil in the tool before connecting it to the air hose. A large shop might use automatic oil injection in the air line. In either case the tool will be spitting a bit of oil.
 

odie

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It's not oil from the compressor, but oil from the air tool. I presume that Odie does like I do and puts a couple drops of oil in the tool before connecting it to the air hose. A large shop might use automatic oil injection in the air line. In either case the tool will be spitting a bit of oil.

Exactly.......:D

-----odie-----
 
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I have a drawer full of different sanding pads. I usually start with 100 grit, using a backer pad with a medium density pad. I go with the medium till 150. I go with a soft pad from 180 on. I do not like the Metabo for the odd or random 80 grit gouge job, I prefer the angle drill for that. Luckily its been a while since I had to go to that. The soft pads do not last long, if I get 3 or 4 months I'm happy. Also, I have ordered pads and discs from the 3 companies that in my opinion are good, and have nice products, The sanding glove, Vince's wood & Wonders, and Ken Rizza. My favorite sanding disc is the Norton blue, from the sanding glove... Pads, I have lost track of who sells what, I just pick them out of the drawer by feel... Would like to hear your opinion after you have used it a while. Aloha
Emiliano: As discussed, I have run my new Metabo through its paces now and relay some observations as requested. Main feedback...it is most certainly a welcomed addition to my tool stash. I still need to power sand an initial grit or two...but then this gets pulled out of the drawer from now on.
Pros:
1) It is a well made/solid and powerful tool
2) It is great for working the bark edges of a natural bowl
3) It specializes in removing those small concentric circles and swirls we all are plagued with especially in the bottom of a vessel. If no other credit is given, it is absolutely great to use with 320 for a quick sweep of the bottom to kill the swirls.
4) It is a high-grit specialist...150 and up.
Cons:
1) As discussed above, it is an awkward shape and doesn't fit everywhere you want it to (i.e., inside of a bowl/vessel).
2) Like about everything we do, you can't expect to get good results when you pull it straight out of the box. Time in the saddle is a must. As I said earlier, I took it out of the box, put on some 80 grit, turned it up on its highest setting...and promptly smoked a backing pad.
3) Like Michael said above, it uses up sanding discs pretty quickly. (However, it is worth it to me to get to watch the little swirls scream and try to jump off of a vessel.)
Final comment: Thanks to all for the good discussion. To back what Donna said above...I too don't necessarily find that the Metabo makes the sanding chore any quicker for myself, however, I'm pretty sure that I'm going to use this ROS quite a lot going forward.
 

Emiliano Achaval

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Emiliano: As discussed, I have run my new Metabo through its paces now and relay some observations as requested. Main feedback...it is most certainly a welcomed addition to my tool stash. I still need to power sand an initial grit or two...but then this gets pulled out of the drawer from now on.
Pros:
1) It is a well made/solid and powerful tool
2) It is great for working the bark edges of a natural bowl
3) It specializes in removing those small concentric circles and swirls we all are plagued with especially in the bottom of a vessel. If no other credit is given, it is absolutely great to use with 320 for a quick sweep of the bottom to kill the swirls.
4) It is a high-grit specialist...150 and up.
Cons:
1) As discussed above, it is an awkward shape and doesn't fit everywhere you want it to (i.e., inside of a bowl/vessel).
2) Like about everything we do, you can't expect to get good results when you pull it straight out of the box. Time in the saddle is a must. As I said earlier, I took it out of the box, put on some 80 grit, turned it up on its highest setting...and promptly smoked a backing pad.
3) Like Michael said above, it uses up sanding discs pretty quickly. (However, it is worth it to me to get to watch the little swirls scream and try to jump off of a vessel.)
Final comment: Thanks to all for the good discussion. To back what Donna said above...I too don't necessarily find that the Metabo makes the sanding chore any quicker for myself, however, I'm pretty sure that I'm going to use this ROS quite a lot going forward.
I agree with your assessment. Dont know if I mentioned that with the very fine grits I use a very soft pad, works great fro 320 and above, I very seldom go above 600. Once in a while I might do 800. The soft pad doesn't last long, I buy a few at the time. I should also mention, the Metabo is not my only toy, I mean, tool, I have gone thru a few angle drills, went thru a few Sioux, those were the best, then a few Milwaukee...
 
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I have a pneumatic unit from Woodturners Wonders (https://woodturnerswonders.com/collections/random-orbital-sanders) that seems to work very well. I only use it for fine grits, 220 and above. It allows lots of control, has very good ergonomics and fits into my hand much better than the Metabo. It seems well made and although I have only used it a few months, it feels like it will be reliable. I use it with a 2 hp 20 gal compressor and have not had any problem with it. I also have not experienced any of the problems mentioned above about oil coming out on the piece you are sanding. I use it mostly with the lathe turned off, often for natural edge or other odd pieces that would require a lot of hand sanding without some kind of powered unit
 
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Laurinburg NC
I found this post as I was wondering about ROS.I have looked online at (https://woodturnerswonders.com/collections/random-orbital-sanders)
and wondered about them. (I was looking at the PROS Mini Sander on the same page...a black one you will see when you scroll down a bit.) am a flute maker and a woodturner also.Whatever I would get for the most part would get the most use on my flutes.I already have a Sanding Wonder Ultimate Sander that I got from VincesWoodNWonder. It is a great tool. I have some arthritis and am searching for something that will help even a little bit. I am very open to suggestions.Thanks a bunch! (I use mostly 2" ...think they are 2 3/8" or so hook and loop disks)

My air compressors maybe too small....I have a Makita MAC700 2HP 2.6 gal rated at 3.3 CFM at 90PSI and an old (30 yr old 1 HP 7 1/2 gal Craftsman....It is still working but could quit anytime)
 
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Bill Boehme

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I would recommend calling Ken Rizza at Woodturners Wonders and describe your needs and see what he has to say. That sander looks really good, but I have also used Harbor Freight dual action sanders (dual action is the same thing as random orbital which actually isn't random, but the name sounds cool) which are very light and very low cost. The down side of most big pneumatic sanders is that they are air hogs and very loud. For your need the mini sander sounds like a better solution if the weight isn't a problem.

The horsepower numbers on air compressors are complete fiction so I only pay attention to CFM and PSI specs. Your small compressor sounds marginally acceptable for the sander that you are looking at. You might check to see if your compressor will supply 3.3 CFM continuously.

I have always preferred hand sanding, but arthritis is also starting to bother me and I also have had rotator cuff surgery twice on my right shoulder and don't want to go through the painful rehab again.
 
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