Teaching new turners

[Emiliano Achaval]

We had a very successful and fun club meeting yesterday. Most of the meeting was used to mentor 5 beginners. One of them had call me a few weeks ago to see if I wanted to buy her lathe, a nice Vicmarc VL300. She was done, very frustrated... I told her to make sure she was coming to the meeting I had a tool for her to try... She has taken several one on one lessons with her mentor, an experienced turner. She had a few lessons at club meetings...
The club now owns 2 Viceroy tools, by the Mike Hunter Co.
If you have had newbies you know the teaching can go slow, and they usually want to make something as opposed to learn the basics... Time at the meetings is limited. We had 5 turners , and 3 lathes, but only two Viceroy's. I started with Ann, our retired nurse. Project was a tea light holder, end grain. The Viceroy tool is simply amazing. She looked comfortable and in control. Turned the small square of Primavera wood to round in just a few minutes. I did the spigot for the chuck. Then it was time to do the recess for the light. I trued up the face, and I noticed the tool was not kicking back, so I let her start the recess. She had never done any end grain hollowing. With the Viceroy she did it like a turner with years of experience! And she was going both ways. Ignorance is a bliss, she wasn't aware of how difficult it is for a beginner to hollow out end grain with a spindle gouge!
All 5 turners completed the project in under 3 hours. When we were using my gouges, we were having lots of catches, as expected. Yesterday there was one, one of the turners for some reason kept lifting the flat shank of the tool off the tool rest, and then the wood grabs the cutter. Even after the catch, she kept tilting it... My goal was to get Ann back into having fun, do a project, show her she can do it. Mission accomplished! Our goal is to keep practicing with traditional tools, but get them going with the Hunter tools. We gave the beginners a catalogue so they can order some projects, then they will let us know what they got, we will provide the wood and do it. I believe we will teach all beginners with this tools, it's an easy way to get them hooked. Ann is a retired nurse, a very nice lady that has helped us with some marketing, I'm attaching some pictures so you can see her happiness... The Viceroy tool has a lot of potential, for beginners and advance turners alike, it's a tool that if you have the opportunity you should give it a try.

 

[Rob Fridenberg]

I've been meaning to ask this question - and your post is timely. As a newbie/hobby turner, starting fresh, do I purchase all carbide tools now and avoid buying a grinder/jigs for HSS tools (which would fund a bunch of carbide bits)? You also mention that they may be easier for a new turner to use - would there be a compelling reason to buy the traditional HSS tools?

Thanks for any input.

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

I've been meaning to ask this question - and your post is timely. As a newbie/hobby turner, starting fresh, do I purchase all carbide tools now and avoid buying a grinder/jigs for HSS tools (which would fund a bunch of carbide bits)? You also mention that they may be easier for a new turner to use - would there be a compelling reason to buy the traditional HSS tools?

Thanks for any input.

Hey Rob,

I started with carbides. They do offer an easy “learn on your own” option. Once I switched to regular gouge, I would not look back and wished I started with gouges. A lot more cleaner, better control, better finish, and easier sanding surface.

If you want to go carbide route, get the minimum tools you need, don’t overdo it as I did.

If you can find someone in your local club or via class how to do the basic cuts with gouges, do it. It doesn’t take much, just a tool presentation to the wood and few things to avoid. I struggled with the gouge until someone showed me how to use it on one bowl, and that was it. I then took a class with David Ellsworth, well worth it for anyone interested.

 

[john lucas]

I would recommend one carbide tool. The Hunter Viceroy. With it you can have a lot of fun turning just about anything. However it will also let you do bevel rubbing cuts. I am a firm believer in using regular gouges and bevel rubbing cuts but they do have a steep learning curve for new turners especially if you don't have a club or mentor to help you get past the learning curve. With the Hunter Viceroy you already have the tool and you can play with the bevel rubbing technique until you get comfortable with it. It also functions as a shear scraper to clean up cuts that aren't perfect. I am working real hard on a video on using the hunter Viceroy tool but it's taking youtube a billion years to download it. I do have a video on the Hunter Hercules which I also think is an excellent tool and will let you learn bevel rubbing techniques as well. here is a video showing how to use that tool. What I like about these tools for a new turner is you can start turning immediately without spending a lot of money on tools you may not need or a grinder or jig. don't forget sharpening is also something that has a learning curve. After you have been turning for a while you will have a better idea of what tools to buy and what grinder etc. The flat top carbide tools don't offer the bevel rubbing option of learning so your sort of stuck using scrapers for everything. The advantage of bevel rubbing tools is you get much much cleaner cuts which reduces your sanding considerably and leaves much crisper edges on your turnings.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzrLN8SQ8ms&t=271s

 

[hockenbery]

I've been meaning to ask this question - and your post is timely. As a newbie/hobby turner, starting fresh, do I purchase all carbide tools now and avoid buying a grinder/jigs for HSS tools (which would fund a bunch of carbide bits)? You also mention that they may be easier for a new turner to use - would there be a compelling reason to buy the traditional HSS tools?

Thanks for any input.

Like everything in wood turning the answer depends...
If at all possible take a quality class or work with a club mentor. Get the tools used for the class.
If you are on your own gowith the carbide
However realize your 2nd or 3rd bowl Will be about as good as you will get with those tools.
If you want to turn really well learn to use the bowl gouge and spindle gouge

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

Don't you think she needs a booster to stand on?

 

[tdrice]

Don't you think she needs a booster to stand on?

Yep, but it looks like she's having fun. I just hope she up where she belongs before she gets hurt.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Yep, but it looks like she's having fun. I just hope she up where she belongs before she gets hurt.

If you follow the forum you know I raised my lathe about 4 inches... On top of that Ann is very short... I will ask the club to help build a platform. I didn’t think about other people using my lathe when I raised it chest high, slight oversight on my part...

 

[Dean Center]

If you follow the forum you know I raised my lathe about 4 inches... On top of that Ann is very short... I will ask the club to help build a platform. I didn’t think about other people using my lathe when I raised it chest high, slight oversight on my part...

Maybe somebody should see what height her lathe at home is, too. That may be one more path to happier turning.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Maybe somebody should see what height her lathe at home is, too. That may be one more path to happier turning.

She might need a platform with her Vicmarc...

 

[Bill Boehme]

She might need a platform with her Vicmarc...

or a periscope.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I would recommend one carbide tool. The Hunter Viceroy. With it you can have a lot of fun turning just about anything. However it will also let you do bevel rubbing cuts. I am a firm believer in using regular gouges and bevel rubbing cuts but they do have a steep learning curve for new turners especially if you don't have a club or mentor to help you get past the learning curve. With the Hunter Viceroy you already have the tool and you can play with the bevel rubbing technique until you get comfortable with it. It also functions as a shear scraper to clean up cuts that aren't perfect. I am working real hard on a video on using the hunter Viceroy tool but it's taking youtube a billion years to download it. I do have a video on the Hunter Hercules which I also think is an excellent tool and will let you learn bevel rubbing techniques as well. here is a video showing how to use that tool. What I like about these tools for a new turner is you can start turning immediately without spending a lot of money on tools you may not need or a grinder or jig. don't forget sharpening is also something that has a learning curve. After you have been turning for a while you will have a better idea of what tools to buy and what grinder etc. The flat top carbide tools don't offer the bevel rubbing option of learning so your sort of stuck using scrapers for everything. The advantage of bevel rubbing tools is you get much much cleaner cuts which reduces your sanding considerably and leaves much crisper edges on your turnings.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzrLN8SQ8ms&t=271s

I have learnt that in woodturning one size does not fit us all... The needs of a professional woodturner like me are very different that someone like Ann. Ann would be happy with the occasional small gift to present to an ex-coworker, a few small X-Mas gifts... Does she needs a Vicmarc VL 300? No... But, she got it... She won a Carter and Sons gift certificate at a club raffle and purchase a 5/8 bowl gouge with it. Big mistake... What I would recommend a beginner that is happy with just a few items a year are different than what I recommend a young turner that just started. He has high hopes, showed us a Koa bowl done with a set of tools from HF, not even a bowl gouge in it, and finish it with 40 grit... I recommended he purchase a Doug Thompson 5/8 V bowl gouge. He will be coming for lesson to learn how to use it... Later one when he starts making $1000 Koa calabashes I would tell him to buy a Hunter #5 tool for the inside transition wall...
Another example would be if someone just has a midi lathe and wants to make pens and X-mas ornaments, does he need a 3/4 Thompson V gouge to rough out blanks? No... When it comes to me, I want every possible tool made out there, LOL Someone that wants to make bowls on a medium size lathe I would tell him start with a 1/2 in or 5/8 Thompson bowl gouge, master that tool, then add a skew and a spindle gouge, and now, believe it or not, I would tell him to look at the Hunter tools, specially the #5, a badger maybe, a Viceroy and the mini hollowing set. With that he could do so many things that he would never feel the need for anything else... Also, before I become President of the club, I was anti Carbide. Due in part because I never own any! LOL. But now, when members bring their work to show me, I do not ask no do I care what tool they use as long as the final product is well done. John Lucas and Wayne Omura opened up the Carbide world to me, and then I call Mike Hunter for advice on a job and that was the clincher. Mike is a very knowledgeable woodturner , with the tools he told me to buy I'm starting to do things that were not possible before. The Hunter tools nicely compliment my tool rack loaded with Thompson traditional tools... What I would advice a new turner depends on a lot of things, goals, lathe, experience, some used turn 40 years ago in shop class, a nd a lot more. We live in a world of instant gratification, not too many people have the patience to become proficient with traditional tools. So, would I advice you to buy a carbide tool? Yes, if you already have a bowl gouge and feel the need to expand your woodturning, after a few weeks of trying several Hunter tools I can say they are a great addition to any woodturner, beginners or old timers alike... Sorry, kind of long answer, not an easy question...

 

[john lucas]

Interesting you bring up Harbour Freight tools. I just bought a set for $18 to see if they could be turned into usuable tools. They can and with this set it was very easy. I'm working on a video on what to do with a set like that. In my area many people don't have the money to do woodworking at the level that many on here do. I know I went through a period where a $40 bowl gouge just wasn't going to happen. Anyway I reground this set of carbon steel tools and in my opinion would make a good set of tools for a new turners. If you added a bowl gouge to the set you could do just about anything. I did regrind one to a bowl gouge grind and it works but I would probably suggest to someone buying this set if they want to turn many bowls invest in the good gouge.

 

[robo hippy]

Because of all the scrapers I do have, I don't consider the carbide tipped tools to be essential. However, if you are really getting into woodturning, then the basic tools, like gouges and skews are essential.

With a platform, especially if it is high, like that woman would need, it might be a good idea to have a railing around it so she doesn't forget she is up on some thing and fall off the edge. I have 2 main lathes now, and one is set to my preferred height, and the other is a bit lower. I may end up getting a third lathe....

I have done almost no work with beginners as in 'This is a lathe'. Whole different approach than 'this is what you are doing, now try this'.

robo hippy

 

[Martin Groneng]

2 lathes now eh, Robo, one is right handed and one is left handed, what "handed" will the third one be? Did you win the lottery?

 

[robo hippy]

Well, actually I have a Jet mini that I use for threaded boxes.... Didn't win the lottery, but got lucky with a great dad, age 95 who still goes in to work every day. He made a lot of things possible for me that I would not have accomplished on my own... 'I am not going to retire till my birth certificate expires!'

robo hippy

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Because of all the scrapers I do have, I don't consider the carbide tipped tools to be essential. However, if you are really getting into woodturning, then the basic tools, like gouges and skews are essential.

With a platform, especially if it is high, like that woman would need, it might be a good idea to have a railing around it so she doesn't forget she is up on some thing and fall off the edge. I have 2 main lathes now, and one is set to my preferred height, and the other is a bit lower. I may end up getting a third lathe....

I have done almost no work with beginners as in 'This is a lathe'. Whole different approach than 'this is what you are doing, now try this'.

robo hippy

A railing might be indeed a good idea...

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Well, actually I have a Jet mini that I use for threaded boxes.... Didn't win the lottery, but got lucky with a great dad, age 95 who still goes in to work every day. He made a lot of things possible for me that I would not have accomplished on my own... 'I am not going to retire till my birth certificate expires!'

robo hippy

Your dad still works at 95? is a that correct, 95? Would love to hear more about it! @robo hippy

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Interesting you bring up Harbour Freight tools. I just bought a set for $18 to see if they could be turned into usuable tools. They can and with this set it was very easy. I'm working on a video on what to do with a set like that. In my area many people don't have the money to do woodworking at the level that many on here do. I know I went through a period where a $40 bowl gouge just wasn't going to happen. Anyway I reground this set of carbon steel tools and in my opinion would make a good set of tools for a new turners. If you added a bowl gouge to the set you could do just about anything. I did regrind one to a bowl gouge grind and it works but I would probably suggest to someone buying this set if they want to turn many bowls invest in the good gouge.

I wonder why they dont include a small bowl gouge? All kinds of useless scrapers, full of rust , horrible little handles... Oh, yeah, I started with the Buck Brothers set from my local sears, just as bad, LOL

 

[john lucas]

These aren't as good as the buck Brothers chisels. The handles are small and obviously designed by someone who knows nothing about turning. I'm guessing they just copied a set from the 30's. Bowl gouges didn't exist until maybe the mid 70's.

 

[robo hippy]

Your dad still works at 95? is a that correct, 95? Would love to hear more about it! @robo hippy

Yup, 95, turns 96 this August. He is an engineer by trade, family business in St. Joseph, MO (Gray Mfg.) He said one reason he is still alive is because he quit drinking maybe 35 years ago. Still very active and alert, and insatiable curiosity, so non stop reading. One interesting thing for me growing up, when he walks through the shop, he isn't Mister or Sir, he is Joe to every one that works there... I still do a double take when any one calls me sir... Who???

I blame my engineering take/view on him, even though I never had any training or schooling that way, "If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it anyway."

robo hippy

 

[john lucas]

Wow that's cool. I used to photograph for a guy who makes very high end furniture and was in his 90's. I ran into him the other day at a wood show and he had just finished a fantastic veneer'ed desk and he's 96. Man I hope I can last that long and still have my mind. I worry about that more because my Grandmother had Alzheimers and I take after her in appearance and other things.

 

[Martin Groneng]

I can relate to these "young" chaps, it's full steam ahead and work it out and they probably don't walk around with an "idiot box" in their hands pushing buttons!! I don't own one and never will and still use my head even though it is full of turning shavings and dust!!!