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green pine

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i was referred to wed site in hawiai about norfolk pine on this board and inspired by that work i took my chance and cut some pine from a tree that fell in the neighborhood, i rounded it between centers, made a chuck hold, rough shaped the outside and interior. it was snowing today and i tried to boil the pine but my propane stove never got the water boiling so i just got it as hot as possible for about 3 hours instead of boiling for 1 hour. a lot of sap came out of the vase and coated the pot which i chipped off . i took the vase and put in trash bag with shavings. i plan to check the vase next week hopefully and finish turning it. any suggestions, don't dos, must do this, comnents etc would be appreacitated
 

hockenbery

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a couple of things to ponder,

1. Norfolk Island Pine is not a pine.

2. Most pines are full of sticky resin, rather soft, difficult to finish because of the resin, and generally have bland looking wood. So few people turn pine.

3. A friend of mine in Maryland routinely turns Virginia pine. He says it has very little resin. I have turned Christmas ornaments from pine knots that look quite nice.

4. keep experimenting. In Virginia it is easy to get tired of turning Maple, Cherry, Walnut, Box Elder, Sycamore, Locust, Mulberry, Holly, Dogwood, etc

Have fun
Al
 
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1. Norfolk Island Pine is not a pine.

1. Norfolk Island Pine is not a pine.
it sure looked nice on the web site, if its not pine what is it

virginia pine is soft, but it was green, yes i like to cut green stuff

the virginia pine did have a lot of sap which i hope i heated off, the piece i used had a couple of knots all the way around, that was why i thought i was using possible the same as the guy in hawaii i am not much of a speller hehe

should i heat it some more, away from the knot the wood is white i wonder should i maybe put some rit dye in it on the next piece if this turns out ok
 
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Not to mention, "Poplar" is not a poplar, either.

Seriously, different genus on NIP, not Pinus. Means it's not a spruce, either. Your Virginia pine is a common name for Pinus virginiana, a pioneer on poor soils, sort of like our northern Jack pine. Lots of resin in the red and yellow pines - commercial designations - less in whites. Resin has nothing to do with the stability of the piece, however much of a mess it might make when boiled. Can be a problem under an oil-based finish, however.

Open-grown conifers of most sorts produce radiating "crowns" of branches at regular intervals. Even oddball conifers like Tamarack, which, by the bye, has to be one of the champs at resin production. It's this that the NIP genre emphasizes, but you can get it from a number of trees. The other characteristic of the genre is oil-soaking to slow drying and encourage fiber saturation, which adds translucency to the piece. Works similarly with all woods, not just NIP or even conifers. Aspen (a true Poplar) makes especially pretty translucencies, and since it's so easy to dry, there's no vat or mess to fuss with.
 

hockenbery

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Virginia Pine is a species of pine. There are probably a dozen other species of pine growing in your area including quite a few that have been introduced.

The Norfolk Island Pine - Araucaria heterophylla is an Australian that has found it way around the world as a house plant (indoor Christmas tree)

The branches tend to grow at the same height on it and a similar Monkey Puzzle Tree - Araucaria araucana. This branch pattern can be used in a turning to display a ring of knots. Also most popular in hawaii is to soak a relatively thin bowl in oil over a period of time to preserve the transluscence that we see in thinly turned green white woods. Translucence disappears when the wood dries because the water no longe provides a path for the light to pass through.

-Al
 
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soak in oil

soak in oil, turn very thin

ok, danish oil, but that would color the wood a shade of brown

i have some lemon oil but it is solid or a wax state

any suggestions on what type of oil to soak to get the "see thru effect"

this free wood is becoming a very good project and increasing my oppertunties to move up on the training curve

thanks and keep the suggestions coming, i am starting to grin :cool2: :cool2:
 
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baitbegger said:
soak in oil, turn very thin
ok, danish oil, but that would color the wood a shade of brown
i have some lemon oil but it is solid or a wax state
:

Careful in your choice. If you use an oil which does not cure, you may find yourself wondering what happened when you drip it out of the vat. With no cure or resin to build a film, the surface of the piece is likely to scatter more light than it passes. You really want that "wet" look for best transmission, and that almost demands a thinned varnish. Perhaps even a buffed coat after the initial cure. I use thinned poly. Not sure if it's linseed-based. Probably soy, based on my nose. Of course I turn the aspen dry, so I am not obliged to soak, rather run the warm long-oil mix in to refusal, wipe, repeat when cured.
 

hockenbery

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The process that is used in Hawaii on Norfolk Island Pine is to turn the piece 3/16" to 1/8 inch thick. The pieces are then coaxed into absorbing as much oil as possible through closely held processess involving secret recipe oil baths.

The Norfolk Island pine readily absorbs oil. Over time the oil dries in the wood making passageways for light to travel around the wood fibers. sort of like tiny fiber optics. These turning become translucent and will show light through them.

I'm not sure what results you would get with your pine. I suspect your pine will not absorb the oil because it full of resin. Like Mouse said oils may never dry.
Pine is often difficult to paint because the resins will blead through fo years.
A finish that cures hard on most woods may not cure at all on your pine.

-Al
 
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I'm gonna go out on a limb here, Bait, and suggest using the pine in a nice bonfire in the back yard and switching to hardwoods in general. I've seen some decent work in pine but not much, as the pitch becomes a major issue quickly unless the piece is well aged (and even then too). If you're really dead set, use your bandsaw to cut off most or all of the sapwood (the ring that the pitch is oozing out of) and just turn the heartwood. Will save a world of hurt.

the other thing is that, if you turn it relatively thin and very consistant in thickness, you shouldn't have much of a splitting problem (fingers crossed).

Good luck,
dietrich
 
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turn it thin

i guess the next step is to turn it thin, and if :D :eek: that is accomplished then maybe go to the next step, i have other blanks that are nice grained
(mulberry, beeech, birch, cherry) so this is my first go out and cut the wood from the tree and turn it green stuff so i am kind of experimenting all the way round thanks for all the advise :) :)
 
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All four woods you mentioned there are fun and excellent to turn when greeen. Beech in particular may not look that spectacular but makes your whole shop smell great (and the shavings are pretty darn good kitty litter too).

Cherry is one of the nicest green turning woods around.

Mulberry is surprisingly beautiful when fresh. It will age to a deep yellow brown color so take that into acount with your choice of forms.

My concern with the pine would be that you'd have a tough time with all the pitch and end up unhappy with the end result, thus making you less likely to turn green wood again. Don't let this happen, as green wood turning is lots of fun.

Most of all, enjoy yourself,
Dietrich
 
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beech

opps that was spaulted yellow birch instead of beech, sometimes i get them mixed up, i had some dried sassafras also which is pretty
 
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thinned varnish

do you thin the varnish or poly with water or something like mineral spirits, i have no experience doing this at all, so i really do not have any idea????? :confused: :confused:
 
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baitbegger said:
do you thin the varnish or poly with water or something like mineral spirits, i have no experience doing this at all, so i really do not have any idea?????

You thin anything with the appropriate solvent. For oils, nonpolar solvents like mineral spirits, turps, and such. For water-based, polar solvents like water or alcohols.

Be especially careful if you're thinning to spray, because your choice of solvent may change the drying characteristics of what you're spraying. Can be good or ill, depending on your choice and objective.

For your application, of course, mineral spirits is the choice. Alternative to lower the viscosity of oils is to warm them, which also would accelerate the loss of water on green pieces, but gets into flammability issues unless you control your heat source properly.

Keep some of those mineral spirits available to clean your cutting tools as you turn the green pine. The resin can give you enough drag to spoil your cut if you're not careful. Use it carefully on a thick rag, because a sharp edge can hurt you even if you're doing just a quick wipe. DAMHIKT.
 
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Baitbegger,

I live on the big island. The Norfolk Island Pine is usually rough turned fairly close to what the final thickness will be, down to 3/16ths of an inch or maybe a smidge thicker, then treated as MichaelMouse suggested by soaking in oil, usually Danish Oil, and then turned to a final thickness of 1/16th or so. The turnings I have watched were finshed largely with a radius scraper, and one hand supporting the outside of the bowl. It is quite flexible at that point, almost alarmingly so, but it seemed to scrape just fine. The oil essentally replaces all the water in the wood over time. When it dries it hardens some giving some firmness back to the wood. The degree of transparency is quite striking, and is really accented if you have included the branch whorls in the bowl, and/or have some spalting going on in it. I am not aware that they apply any finish to it other than the dried impregnated oil. They all look like they have been sanded quite smooth and perhaps buffed. Finish has a touch of sheen or soft gloss to it.

I have been told the soaking time is upwards of 6 months. To cut down on the amount of oil tied up at one time someone suggested using a container as close to the size of the bowl as possible, and then surrounding and filling the soaking bowl with cheap kids marbles to cut down the volume of oil needed. I imagine the drying time is pretty significant as well. Have not heard of anyone using a thinner or other additives, but I can certainly imagine folks developing their own "formulas that they guard jealously. Starting with basic clear danish oil though should still give you nice results.

If it helps motivate to play with this technique, the price these bowls command in the galleries in Hawaii is pretty darn good. I see fairly simple shaped vases, basic V or U shapes essentially, maybe 6 to 8 inch diameter and 6 to 10 inches tall, running $800 and better. They are quite striking with a spot light shining down on them.

Don't burn it. Give it a try and see what happens. The worst that will happen is you will have some great fire starter similar to georgia fat wood. And maybe you will get an $800 bowl out it!!

Have fun!!!

Dave
 
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hockenbery said:
In Virginia it is easy to get tired of turning Maple, Cherry, Walnut, Box Elder, Sycamore, Locust, Mulberry, Holly, Dogwood, etc
Al

Shaking my head in envy at your ability to get tired of having these woods around you. I suppose your going to tell all that Oneway's are hidden through the Northeast forests like big "Easter Eggs" :D

If I want to turn cherry and walnut, I look for 12/4 boards and cut them up to bowl blanks.
 
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