I Learned Something New about CBN Wheels...

[Tom Albrecht]

I have an 8" 220 wheel from Woodturners Wonders (Ken Rizza).

Since I took my awesome class with David Ellsworth a few weeks ago I have changed some things. I am sharpening a lot more often, and I am turning a lot of green wood.

I noticed today that my 220 grit wheel is looking blotchy in the face, and with my fingernail I can feel a difference in the grittiness from the face to the side and edge. I have not used this wheel that much and have had it less than a year, so I called Rizza thinking that it was premature wear. Rizza asked some questions about how I do things and what kind of tools I was sharpening and what kind of wood I was cutting. But, The important question Rizza asked was "Do you wipe your tool clean before you grind it?" To make a long story shorter, my methods of frequent resharpening while working wet wood (maple) has clogged my wheel. While I have not yet tried Rizza's solution of soaking the wheel in some kerosene for a while, I was glad to hear that my wheel has not worn out.

I'll pick up some kerosene tomorrow and repost the results.

 

[john lucas]

I hope Robo chimes in on this. I have had my wheel for 3 or 4 years now. They go through a break in period where they actually feel smoother on the area that is broken in. Now the whole wheel is broken in and seems to cut just as well. I don't clean my tools before sharpening but don't turn a lot of green wood. You can clog the wheel somewhat by sharpening carbon steel tools. Reed found that using the liquid designed to keep diamond hones from clogging works to clean the wheel. I'm not in the shop and can't remember the brand right now. It will hit me later or I can go out there and look. I use it on my diamond hones but haven't tried it on my CBN yet since I keep an Aluminum oxide wheel on the other side of my grinder for my non HSS tools.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

I hope Robo chimes in on this. I have had my wheel for 3 or 4 years now. They go through a break in period where they actually feel smoother on the area that is broken in. Now the whole wheel is broken in and seems to cut just as well. I don't clean my tools before sharpening but don't turn a lot of green wood. You can clog the wheel somewhat by sharpening carbon steel tools. Reed found that using the liquid designed to keep diamond hones from clogging works to clean the wheel. I'm not in the shop and can't remember the brand right now. It will hit me later or I can go out there and look. I use it on my diamond hones but haven't tried it on my CBN yet since I keep an Aluminum oxide wheel on the other side of my grinder for my non HSS tools.

Yeah, this problem didn't show up until I started turning green wood.

I'd like to know what that cleaning "liquid" is that Reed likes.

 

[john lucas]

I ran out to the shop in the rain to get it. It is Trend lapping fluid. I have only used it briefly on myCBN to see if it removed some marks left buy grinding a carbon steel parting tool. It did. I just used a rag. I don't know if you could use some sort of brush. I wouldn't use a brass or steel brush because it would probably just add to the mess.
https://www.amazon.com/Trend-DWS-LF...482589385&sr=8-1&keywords=trend+lapping+fluid

 

[Tom Albrecht]

I ran out to the shop in the rain to get it. It is Trend lapping fluid. I have only used it briefly on myCBN to see if it removed some marks left buy grinding a carbon steel parting tool. It did. I just used a rag. I don't know if you could use some sort of brush. I wouldn't use a brass or steel brush because it would probably just add to the mess.
https://www.amazon.com/Trend-DWS-LF...482589385&sr=8-1&keywords=trend+lapping+fluid

Thanks John. I just came back from the auto parts store with some Blaster, which was another product Ken Rizza mentioned. He also said that using a brash brush would be fine as long as you don't use it on a running grinder-- hand scrubbing is okay.

 

[hockenbery]

Yeah, this problem didn't show up until I started turning green wood.

I'd like to know what that cleaning "liquid" is that Reed likes.

I will watch for this.
I haven't noticed any problem and I turn mostly green wood.

Often I sharpen because the tool has resin on it rather than being dull.

My grinder is out of the spray zone.

 

[Owen Lowe]

Thanks John. I just came back from the auto parts store with some Blaster, which was another product Ken Rizza mentioned. He also said that using a brash brush would be fine as long as you don't use it on a running grinder-- hand scrubbing is okay.

I wonder if just soaking the wheel in Simple Green would work to remove the embedded wood resins and gunk. That’s what I use for saw blades and it works just fine at low cost and toxicity (compared to Blaster or some other solvent).

 

[Bill Boehme]

I've also used Simple Green on saw blades. It works as well as more expensive solutions.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

Are you Simple Green folks using it straight or with a chaser?

 

[Bill Boehme]

Are you Simple Green folks using it straight or with a chaser?

Water chaser. I hose the blades down with lots of water and dry with a towel. Whatever you use, I would think that it is best done with the wheel removed. Otherwise, all that stuff is going somewhere that you don't want it to go.

 

[Owen Lowe]

Water chaser. I hose the blades down with lots of water and dry with a towel. Whatever you use, I would think that it is best done with the wheel removed. Otherwise, all that stuff is going somewhere that you don't want it to go.

Yep, dilute as instructed for heavy duty cleaning and let soak for a bit — I really don’t know how long; sometimes it turns into hours…

Yep, in my brain I envisioned the CBN removed and soaking horizontal. Don’t think it would work too well to leave on the grinder!

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

Are you Simple Green folks using it straight or with a chaser?

Beer, Tom. The carbonation... just joking. I want to put a link to the Thelonius Monk tune, but I'll resist.

For extreme saw blade build up I've used Dr. Bronner's Sal Suds soap strait-up...which is high in a more natural form of sodium laurel sulphate.

If I remember correctly, Dave over at D-Way says cleaning is only needed in severe cases for CBN wheels. He recommends just sharpening a few scrapers, or holding a heavy piece of HSS steel up the wheel.

That seems to clean em out just fine in my experience. John is right that as the wheel goes through the break-in period the surface doesn't feel as toothy, but still cuts fine, even better. Somewhere I also heard the advice to never sharpen with much pressure, as that can lead to metal clogging the wheel.

I'll be curious to hear if you find cleaning with kerosene or Simple Green does much...I've never cleaned my wheels and I sharpen obsessively. Even with resinous spruce that built up on gouges, the wheels still cut well.

 

[odie]

You guys might want to try some brake parts cleaner. It's industrial strength cleaner used for cleaning hard to remove gunk.....find it in the automotive section. Really good stuff.

 

[robo hippy]

If you turn wet wood, that will happen. I have gotten in the habit of wiping most of the gunk off before I sharpen. The grinder is on wood, and just running the bevel across the wood does a fair job. I haven't tried them all, but I would think any light oil would help prevent build up. I got the Trend lapping fluid because it made 'sense' as in it is for keeping hones clean and helping cutting action. It did get most of the black off the wheels. I haven't tried oven cleaner, but I did use Ajax on my wheels. With the Trend, I am thinking a brush or rag would help in the application, or putting it on the bevel of a scraper. The video clip is down now, but Cindy Drozda was using one of the Woodcraft diamond matrix wheels (3/16 of matrix bonded to an aluminum hub), and she had a 1 inch wide cheap paint brush that she would wet, and it would keep the wheel moist and she would get no build up. I have sprinkled it on the wheel, and turned by hand to spread it, but it would spray if I was in the line of fire... It does seem to help get metal build up off the wheel as well. Most of the time though I just used a scraper.

Project for next year is to load up a wheel with every thing, aluminum, copper, brass, HC steel, and then do a clean up with and without fluid. I have a small electronic camera that can blow an 80 grit particle up to peppercorn size, so will get some before and after pictures, and pictures of tool bevels and burrs..... More fun in the shop...

One other thing, Glenn Lucas uses his for only one year and then 'finds good homes for them'. I plan on talking to him at the Symposium in KC about that one next year, and maybe show him how to use scrapers.....

robo hippy

 

[Tom Albrecht]

UPDATE
I did some soaking time with Blaster and then brushing and it didn't make any difference, nor did an application of Goo-Gone. I did an overnight soak in kerosene (the grinding wheel that is) and brushed it. That seemed to bring most of the feel of the grit back, but it's still blotchy looking.
Simple Green, then Trend, coming up next.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I've used Easy Off oven cleaner to get table saw and bandsaw blades looking really bright and clean looking. It's a lot more expensive than Simple Green, but works well. For saw blades I would not let it soak for any longer than 10 minutes and then very thoroughly wash with lots of water. The oven cleaner contains sodium hydroxide so it might possibly affect the nickel plating that glues the diamond to the wheel.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

I've used Easy Off oven cleaner to get table saw and bandsaw blades looking really bright and clean looking. It's a lot more expensive than Simple Green, but works well. For saw blades I would not let it soak for any longer than 10 minutes and then very thoroughly wash with lots of water. The oven cleaner contains sodium hydroxide so it might possibly affect the nickel plating that glues the diamond to the wheel.

Yeah, I heard that a long time ago in Fine Woodworking that saw blades don't do well with oven cleaner.

 

[Scott Hayes]

Have you tried the non caustic blue can oven cleaner?
I had a shower in my house with bad staining. I tried all normal shower cleaners with no success. Did some research and found people said to use blue can oven cleaner, worked great and didn't hurt anything.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Yeah for Simple Green! I've been cleaning my saw blades (both circular and bandsaw) with it for years. I recently had a Forstner bit that got really gunked up with resin after drilling a (yes, "a" -- one) hole in a Douglas Fir pitch burl, it worked on that too. But, as far as turning tools go, when I'm turning green or anything that's leaving residue on the tool, I keep a package of Kirkland "Disinfecting Wipes" nearby, they are a strong cleaner also. I just leave the wipe peeking out of the package, and rub off the wood residue before grinding (wiping the wet tool-tip on my jeans before grinding. Only takes a few seconds, most of the time it works fine (The yellow packages have slightly abrasive cloths, the blue ones have smooth). Also, if I need to use a Sharpie to check the angle of the platform, I use a very light color -- not black. I've learned from using white-boards that black has much more solid components than lighter colors.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

Good idea about the "Sharpie". Not only do I use black, it's a broad line-- 'gonna switch that.

 

[Steve Worcester]

While Simple Green may seem like a good idea, it does have an issue with galling some metals. I was first made aware of it in cycling, where we used it to clean chains. I don't really know if it harms the metal or just discolors it. The other thing about cleaners in this situation (which we may not know) is does it harm the bond of the CBN itself. While I don't know, it is something to ponder

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I still use Simple Green (original) but it is claimed that it will deteriorate the brazing connecting carbide teeth to saw blades. There is a better alternative in SG which does not do this called Simple Green Pro HD. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthr...e-from-Simple-Green-about-Cleaning-Saw-Blades this link may give you a reference point on this from the manufacturer. I have wondered how long would it take for the damage to occur? This is the only bad thing I have seen in reference to SG.