Sanding sealer/salad bowl?

[Wells Jacobson]

I have turned my first walnut salad bowl. My limited selection of previous bowls have been finished with walnut oil and I have liked the finish but have had several pieces returned (family) for refinishing. I hate film finishes and like a natural feel of an oil finish but wonder if Danish oil would give some oil feel and some varnish protection. I also would like to know if there is any place for shellac or sanding sealer in an open pore wood that will be used as a salad bowl.
I'd appreciate any guidance,
Wells

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

I almost always use walnut oil for salad bowls and personally have six or so that are in almost daily use. When they get a bit dull, I simply re-oil them and let them set for a few days in the light. The result usually is a like-new finish. If left in the light, walnut oil will harden, and I doubt that danish oil would offer any advantage except faster drying. When I give away bowls, I recommend re-oiling with walnut oil occasionally to the recipient.

 

[Raul McCai]

I also would like to know if there is any place for shellac or sanding sealer in an open pore wood that will be used as a salad bowl.
I'd appreciate any guidance,

No guidance here, but some thoughts.

I think it's a little gross to use the exudation of an insect on a food service item. So I'd not use shellac.

The oldest pre-finish grain trick isn't a sealer at all but a grain raising process. Spritz some water on the surface, Let dry, and the grain will have been raised and a light sanding takes it down.

 

[john lucas]

Shellac is what is used as a finish on many of the pills you take.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Oh, let's learn more!

Shellac is what is used as a finish on many of the pills you take.

Great point, here's some added tidbits:

Shellac is "Federal Drug Administration (FDA) approved for use to coat candies, pharmaceuticals, fruit, and baby and children's furniture."
Read more: http://www.madehow.com/Volume-4/Shellac.html#ixzz3p4f3UfUI

"...carefully examining the purity of the shellac by removing as many of the natural impurities found within the sticklac is of utmost importance (insolubles are defined by the undissolved matter remaining when the resinous compound is mixed with hot alcohol). All refining processes are monitored for their effectiveness in removing these undesirables."
Read more: http://www.madehow.com/Volume-4/Shellac.html#ixzz3p4d0Dvhk

Methinks by the time it gets into a Zinnser can, it's pretty safe stuff. If the lac bug was parasitic on animals, I might be less enchanted, but given that it lives on trees, no worries for me.

 

[odie]

Danish oil also is a sealer for the wood. It's what I've been using on salad bowls. I haven't been using the beale buff on salad bowls, but after the D.O. cures, I've been using a non toxic wipe-on lemon oil wax.

I understand the carnauba wax is non toxic, but I don't think the EEE and white diamond compounds are good for food bowls.

From the Danish Oil manufacturer's site:

About Danish Oil



WATCO® Danish Oil is a unique blend of penetrating oil & varnish hardens in the wood, not on the wood. WATCO® Danish Oil penetrates deep into wood pores to protect from within and to enhance the natural look and feel of the wood. It creates the rich, warm glow of a traditional hand-rubbed finish. Many projects can be completed in less than an hour - simply brush or wipe on and wipe off. WATCO® Danish Oil is the choice of fine woodworkers and novices alike. Please read product labels for additional directions and precautions before using

Indoor use only (Not recommended for Floors)
Stain, Seals, & Protects in one easy step
Will not crack, chip, or peel





For Best Results

Apply with a brush, or wipe on with a cloth.


Available Sizes
Pint
Quart
1 Gallon

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

I'll be following this thread!

I use walnut oil and the walnut oil/carnauba finish from the Doctor's Woodshop. In my somewhat limited experience, straight off walnut oil from the store didn't product as nice of a finish as "the Doctor's" -- I think because the proteins have been taken out of the latter. I also like the friction polish that the walnut oil/carnauba wax gives, it's a shinier finish, but still a matte, and not a gloss.

That said, water and moisture degrades the finish a bit.

I personally chose not to use Danish Oil (the normal hardware store variety) for pieces that might have food contact, owing to the naptha and other solvents. The MSDS scared me right away. I understand there's the theory that the solvents evaporate away, and what you're left with is benign. I also eat just about everything organic, homegrown, or wild--so I'm on that end of the spectrum for full disclosure.

I've used Danish Oil (again the hardware store variety) on all sorts of furniture grade finishes, and there's no denying that Danish Oil makes for a hardier finish.

There is some high buck Danish Oil out there that claims no solvents, and bills itself as food safe: http://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/products/danish-oil/
I haven't tried it, but the MSDS says nothing harmful that I could see. I might try some, if I can get it shipped to Alaska.

Can anyone comment on the Tried and True brand of Danish Oil?

 

[Brian McInturff]

Theory???
I do find it amusing people worry about the finish they use on pieces , usually from the voc aspect. But then use plastics and or aluminum and don't think a thing about it. The MSDS is for the liquid in the can, not for after it's been used and cured.

Shellac has been used for centuries. As for "bug" issues, look at what percent of "bug parts" are acceptable in factories where your food is packaged... On 2nd thought, you really don't want to know...lol

 

[hockenbery]

My main finish for bowls and hollow forms is waterlox.
Somewhere around 4-7 coats the finish is done then I buff it out.

I often use a thin shellac as a sealer. It makes for a faster build up of the surface finish

Regarding the food safe issue you can visit this waterlox web page

http://www.waterlox.com/faqs/woodworking/food-safe-non-toxic-wood-fnish

Food-safe / non-toxic.
Waterlox Original Tung oil finishes are non-toxic and food-safe when dry and fully cured. Special care and attention should be used when applying the finish with regard to spread rate and adequate ventilation.

There are two basic steps to the drying and curing process of a Waterlox Original Tung oil finish:
The first step is the evaporation of the solvent or 'carrier' system. The evaporation of the solvent usually occurs in the first 2 - 4 hours with proper and adequate cross-ventilation techniques.
The second step is the curing of the solids system, which is comprised of the oil and resin. The solids system completes 95 - 98% of it’s cure cycle in 7 days with proper ventilation; full cure, film hardness and chemical resistance properties are achieved in 30 -90 days with continued and adequate ventilation.
The only solvent or 'carrier' portion of the formulation is comprised of mineral spirits (a petroleum distillate), which, as mentioned above, evaporates in order for the finish to dry in the first 2 – 4 hours with continued and adequate ventilation. If finishing a working surface, a minimum of 7 days with continued and adequate ventilation should be waited before using the surface.
l

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Great point, here's some added tidbits:

Shellac is "Federal Drug Administration (FDA) approved for use to coat candies, pharmaceuticals, fruit, and baby and children's furniture."
Read more: http://www.madehow.com/Volume-4/Shellac.html#ixzz3p4f3UfUI

"...carefully examining the purity of the shellac by removing as many of the natural impurities found within the sticklac is of utmost importance (insolubles are defined by the undissolved matter remaining when the resinous compound is mixed with hot alcohol). All refining processes are monitored for their effectiveness in removing these undesirables."
Read more: http://www.madehow.com/Volume-4/Shellac.html#ixzz3p4d0Dvhk

Methinks by the time it gets into a Zinnser can, it's pretty safe stuff. If the lac bug was parasitic on animals, I might be less enchanted, but given that it lives on trees, no worries for me.

Please note something that non-medical field does not usually realize. The products used in drug manufacture are usually called "Pharmaceutical Grade" and are of a purer content than what goes in a Zinser can. Also note that the color of shellac is caused by impurities in the shellac with Super Blonde the purist (total lack of color) to Garnet being least.

 

[Raul McCai]

Shellac is what is used as a finish on many of the pills you take.

Oh gross~!
o

 

[dslavik]

I have used the Tried and True finish on salad bowls. It will produce a very nice semi-gloss finish that can be buffed. Durability appears to be quite good. The only problem is the long drying time between coats (3 to 5 weeks for 4 coats).

 

[Richard Coers]

Shellac is what is used as a finish on many of the pills you take.

Shellac also was used to keep corn flakes crispy in milk, and why M&Ms "melt in your mouth, not in your hand". Don't know if they still do or not.

I've finished salad bowls with walnut oil and even MinWax satin poly. I've found that folks like to wipe out the bowls to clean them, not spend time oiling for more coats of finish. Two coats of MinWax poly right out of the can, sand fairly hard with 320, then 0000 steel wool so the finish has just a light sheen.

 

[stu senator]

I finish cutting boards with a mixture of about 10% bees wax and the rest mineral oil. It is non toxic and lasts on a cutting board used every day for a few months.

It may not look the best but buffed it has a sheen and repels water and it lasts and the user can reapply the finish.

It is sold in HD and I assume other big box stores.

Stu

 

[Jamie Straw]

Please note something that non-medical field does not usually realize. The products used in drug manufacture are usually called "Pharmaceutical Grade" and are of a purer content than what goes in a Zinser can. Also note that the color of shellac is caused by impurities in the shellac with Super Blonde the purist (total lack of color) to Garnet being least.

Oh gross~!

From what I understand, the blonder/blondest shellacs are also bleached. According to the article I linked, the red color of shellac owes it's origins to the tree the bug lives on, said color being much valued. "This dye was used to color silk, leather, and cosmetics and was cultivated primarily for this purpose until the 1870s. Then aniline or chemical dyes began to supplant these and other natural dyes."

Some time in the future, perhaps three or four generations hence, insects will probably be fairly common in the Western diet. Resources and increasing population will dictate changes in our approach to nutrition.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Shellac also was used to keep corn flakes crispy in milk, and why M&Ms "melt in your mouth, not in your hand". Don't know if they still do or not.

I've finished salad bowls with walnut oil and even MinWax satin poly. I've found that folks like to wipe out the bowls to clean them, not spend time oiling for more coats of finish. Two coats of MinWax poly right out of the can, sand fairly hard with 320, then 0000 steel wool so the finish has just a light sheen.

Is this sanding done on the lathe?

 

[Wells Jacobson]

Thanks

Never ceases to amaze me how generous and helpful folks can be in an on line community. I appreciate all the input. Think I'll try the Danish oil approach and keep this bowl.
Wells

 

[Richard Coers]

Is this sanding done on the lathe?

Nope, off the lathe. I very seldom sand on the lathe because I usually turn from green to finished. On the larger bowls, like 18" diameter, I do use a vacuum chuck on the lathe, but just as a holding fixture. I should also mention that the poly needs a fairly aggressive sanding since I apply it with a brush. It takes a bit of work to sand out the brush marks.

 

[john lucas]

I use the True oil when I want really glossy pieces. It builds fast. It dries overnight hard enough to sand or steel wool for the next coat. About 7 to 10 coats on open pore woods like Walnut will leave a finish that looks like glass. Never used it for salad bowls. I would think it would leave small glossy spots where it doesn't penetrate so it would be uneven looking. That's how it appears when you use multiple coats. The glossy spots get bigger and bigger until you the entire thing has that look. I steel wool between each coat which leaves tiny glossy spots in the pores. When you have enough coats on that the entire piece looks satin when steel wooled the all the pores are filled. One more coat and you have a glass like finish.
I've also used it as a gunstock finish which is what it was designed for. It's quite durable.
http://www.amazon.com/Birchwood-Cas...=UTF8&qid=1445427579&sr=8-1&keywords=true+oil

 

[odie]

Never ceases to amaze me how generous and helpful folks can be in an on line community. I appreciate all the input. Think I'll try the Danish oil approach and keep this bowl.
Wells

Do make sure you allow plenty of time for the DO to cure completely. I've always got a lot of other projects going at the same time, so it's easy for me to leave the bare DO for a time before I'm ready to finish it off with the lemon oil wax. Minimum of 3-4 days......

I'm not sure if you realize this, but DO is not a non-toxic finish until it's fully cured.

ko

 

[Mark Mandell]

Treenware

For food/use items (bowls, spoons, etc.), I regard it as a waste of time applying a film finish, whether oil or solvent based, as the finish will peel, crack, abrade or otherwise wear unevenly prompting a return-to-maker-for-refinishing situation.

Instead, I soak the item with Waterlox Red-Can finish/sealer, keeping the surface brush-wet for a half hour. Then wipe dry, and allow to cure for 7 days. It is then warmed with a hair drier and rubbed well with a wax/oil paste consisting of pharma-grade mineral oil, paraffin, and bee's wax. The item is then accompanied with a sample cup of the paste to be used as needed. In 15 years I've never had anyone send a bowl back or dislike the "finish."

Make the paste by heating (NOT BOILING!) 1/2 cup oil on an electric (NO FLAMES HERE!!!) hot plate (do this in SWMBO's kitchen at your own risk) then add a tablespoon of paraffin and a teaspoon of bee's and stir until the wax melts into the oil. Allow to cool and congeal. You should have a medium firm paste, but you can change it to your preference by remelting and then adding more wax for stiffer or more oil for softer.

I then reuse the little Solo cups you get with take-out to make starter samples for the "customer" and give them the recipe to make more.

You can also tint the paste by using colored candle wax in the color of your choice.

PS: If you prefer even deeper penetration of the Waterlox, heat the item in your oven to 130° before applying the finish/sealer. You can heat the finish, but whatever you don't apply gets thrown away because it will gel within a few days of being "cooked."

 

[stu senator]

For food/use items (bowls, spoons, etc.), I regard it as a waste of time applying a film finish, whether oil or solvent based, as the finish will peel, crack, abrade or otherwise wear unevenly prompting a return-to-maker-for-refinishing situation.

Instead, I soak the item with Waterlox Red-Can finish/sealer, keeping the surface brush-wet for a half hour. Then wipe dry, and allow to cure for 7 days. It is then warmed with a hair drier and rubbed well with a wax/oil paste consisting of pharma-grade mineral oil, paraffin, and bee's wax. The item is then accompanied with a sample cup of the paste to be used as needed. In 15 years I've never had anyone send a bowl back or dislike the "finish."

Make the paste by heating (NOT BOILING!) 1/2 cup oil on an electric (NO FLAMES HERE!!!) hot plate (do this in SWMBO's kitchen at your own risk) then add a tablespoon of paraffin and a teaspoon of bee's and stir until the wax melts into the oil. Allow to cool and congeal. You should have a medium firm paste, but you can change it to your preference by remelting and then adding more wax for stiffer or more oil for softer.

I then reuse the little Solo cups you get with take-out to make starter samples for the "customer" and give them the recipe to make more.

You can also tint the paste by using colored candle wax in the color of your choice.

See also
http://www.howardproducts.com/prod-butcher-block.php

This is the product that states it meets FDA requirements and can be purchased at the box stores by the user. This way they don't have to buy 3 separate products and blend them together. It is what I use plus the carnauba wax. It is under $10.00 for a 12 oz bottle and can be used by the customer for all the kitchen wood products.

Stu

 

[Bob Howell]

All this talk of bugs puzzles me because of all the insect life I find in the wood I use. I store it outside and usually the bugs get 20%or so before I get to it.

I have just finished a salad bowl full of pin holds I must now fill to make it usable.