Project - Building a lathe

[Dan Mosley]

I was sitting around one morning and came across the website of Dale Winburn (Winburn.com) and looked closely at how he fabricated a bowl lathe. I found it to be interesting thing to play around with the possibilty of making one and thought i would be a fun project. I have written to him to ask a few questions about the sizes of things he used when he built it.
There is less than $100 in steel and would use box beam for the main upright
Dealerselectric.com - has motor/VSD packages $400 - thinking of 5 hp

My question is really to communicate with others that have done the same - I have questions about the height - spindle with taper - motor size - variable speed hook up etc..........
Below is a picture form Dales website showing the one he made............................

Yell if you a interest in this area and thank you ahead of time for any help

 

[olaf Vogel]

I think it depends on the style of turning you do; segmented or start with large, out of round blanks.
Also the size that you (may) aspire to.

I looked at that design for a while since its sleek, elegant and simple.
But I do a lot of large 24"+ pieces, starting out of round.

If you get into that, then there are design issues I would be concerned about.
Basically it's too minimalist...IMO.

I would add diagonal cross bracing to the floor, both sides and back. Currently all tangential forces are held only by the welds at the bottom and the single beam may flex.

Maybe also lengthen the spindle to reduce smaller vibrations.
And I'd make the spindle at least 1.5" in dia. The threads could be smaller, but you don't want flex in the shaft.

Plus add a lot of weight. Just bolting to the floor may not be enough.

All that brought me back to the validity of the design. My conclusion was to create a similar stance, but cast it in concrete.

Ok...I admit, I may be over designing, but heck, if you are building a bowl lathe from scratch....

So you still need pillow blocks, a spindle (likely custom made). That cost is the same.
Pulleys, I've turned from scratch in birch ply. I would make them MUCH larger to allow a greater range of gearing and hence a smaller motor.
Them mounting hardware, basically threaded rod, nuts etc. cheap.
And a lot of concrete, which is cheap.

You save welding, which I would have to pay some for. Maybe you have those expertise, lucky you.
But would have to build a plywood form to hold the curing concrete.
Thats a trade off.

Yes, there is another thread around for building a concrete lathe. IMO that project, though admirable and even beautiful, was way too ambitious for me. I'd keep it simple and functional.

BTW. I've spent time thinking about is. But haven't built to this plan. Just need time.....sigh. Olaf

 

[Douglas Ladendorf]

I have thought about building my own lathe. Mostly because my eyes are bigger than my wallet. it seems to me the most difficult part of the project is the headstock assembly - arbor, bearings, housing, mount. I'll have to look at his site to see how he handled this, but I have seen some use the headstock off an older lathe. 5 HP seems like more than you need (unless you are turning three foot diameter?). The biggest motor Robust offers is 3 HP. That seems like a good benchmark to me. Looking forward to your progress.

Doug

 

[Dan Mosley]

Agree maybe the 3 hp is more than enough - still planning this idea out - I never thought about making it concrete as I can weld fairly well and have a nice Miller and plasma cutter - I am not so sure I can do it with concrete due to the garage I have - I will keep playing with the plans but it would seem to be not so bad expense wise and I agree the headstock part / spindle would be the most technical part that i would have to have a machine shop do - I have a friend at work whose family has a machine shop that said they would help me with the spindle part but i would have to tell them how i wanted it made - this is where i get uncertain in design - should it be hollow for knock out bars etc....how do i want he taper and threads - how long do i want it etc - ....................thanks for the replys and ill keep you posted.....

Olaf - Thank you on your reply - this gives me more to think about it design and ill keep you posted - how did you do your headstock and spindle ? what about 3" round and taper it with a hole for knock out ? or would it create more vibration - possibly a 3hp motor will be enough but still asking how others have done it - My intent is to do larger diameter vessels - not so much bowls but i suppose and for sure no segmented - There was a turner from Hawaii - Elmer i think who did large vessel and it got me interested in wanting to try it

 

[Douglas Ladendorf]

You might consider sourcing the spindle from Powermatic, Oneway, Robust, and maybe the bearings too. Not sure pillow blocks are the best choice but that would be easy. I agree on additional support down to the feet. Might put one under the bed too.

 

[Richard Coers]

If I was to start that kind of project, I would look for a donor machine. Either metal lathe or wood lathe. On a total scratch built machine, you are going to have some serious money in the main shaft if you want the internal taper. Unless you can find a metal working hobbyist that is highly skilled. With a donor machine like a Powermatic 90, you get a banjo and a tailstock, as well as the head with bearings that are made for the thrust loads. Plain ole pillow blocks are not made for thrust loading. I agree with the other assessments. Not enough gussetting on the base. I would start with a LARGE H beam for the main column. Also too short of shaft and bearings, and I really wouldn't like the idea of no tailstock. But all these recommendations are based on larger scale work. If you won't get much over 18", then the light weight machine will likely work. I'm getting old enough that time is a big consideration. I'm about to the point where if I was in your position, I would consider a Robust American Beauty, use it for 10 years, and probably get at least 75% of the investment back when you sold it. Might just work out to be the same money if you can afford the initial investment.

 

[olaf Vogel]

Agree maybe the 3 hp is more than enough - still planning this idea out - I never thought about making it concrete as I can weld fairly well and have a nice Miller and plasma cutter - I am not so sure I can do it with concrete due to the garage I have - I will keep playing with the plans but it would seem to be not so bad expense wise and I agree the headstock part / spindle would be the most technical part that i would have to have a machine shop do - I have a friend at work whose family has a machine shop that said they would help me with the spindle part but i would have to tell them how i wanted it made - this is where i get uncertain in design - should it be hollow for knock out bars etc....how do i want he taper and threads - how long do i want it etc - ....................thanks for the replys and ill keep you posted.....

Olaf - Thank you on your reply - this gives me more to think about it design and ill keep you posted - how did you do your headstock and spindle ? what about 3" round and taper it with a hole for knock out ? or would it create more vibration - possibly a 3hp motor will be enough but still asking how others have done it - My intent is to do larger diameter vessels - not so much bowls but i suppose and for sure no segmented - There was a turner from Hawaii - Elmer i think who did large vessel and it got me interested in wanting to try it

For "headstock" start with two REALLY solid pillow blocks. I picked up a pair of 2 3/4" for cheap.
The spindle will have to be turned down to fit the ID. I'd leave the Center section larger, say 3" in this case.

The front would Be cut down to the thread size desired. But keep it larger. 1" up to maybe 1.5". And cut the thread on a metal lathe to a modern standard, so chucks are easy to fit/find.

If you don't have a tail stock, then I don't see the point of having a MT insert. So no knockout bar needed.
A through hole is still great for vacuum chucking.

My current lathe only uses faceplates or chucks, no MT insert. For larger forms, I've not found a need.

So bolt the pillow blocks on a thick metal plate, align them and you have a headstock. No need to scavenge off an existing lathe.
Check out images for matt moulthrops lathe. Nothing fancy there but great results. Also note the concrete base.

If you weld that onto your base, a large beam would be good. I beams do not resists twisting well, so a box section would be better.

If there's no tail stock, then alignment is not much of an issue.
If your bed is slightly off, no big deal.

But now you are pretty much just a faceplate turner.

For power, well the more, the merrier. I was stalling out 3 hp, in large diameters. Upgraded to 7.5 and there's no longer an issue. But with really wide gearing, you won't need that much. Mine is just a tricky set up so changing gearing is a real challenge.

I think stiffness and weight are really important.

My current one is about 1400 lbs. in my old shop bolted to the joists, through 3" of plywood, I have had that bouncing up and down. Scary. In my new shop, I just poured about 600 lbs of concrete over the feet, and rebar into the floor. No more movement. Low tech and if I have to move it, it will be a major pain in ---

http://www.olafvogel.com/cant-bros-lathe.html third pic.

It's a post and beam lathe from 1880 steel I beams for a bed, cross braced and concreted into the floor.

Cross bracing will really help stiffness. A local guy (Stephen hogbin) was doing HUGE pieces. His DIY lathe was very light. But built like bridge trusses, cross braced like crazy, from tubing, with a very wide stance.

https://www.canadianwoodworking.com...sets/images/stephenhogbin_3.jpg?itok=Kq6qjn1l

Note the hoist! Save your back. Big blanks are heavy.

Lots of options. But once you start doing large pieces, it's addictive. You want larger and larger.
So might as well over build a bit.

Olaf

 

[Roger Chandler]

Dale is a friend and in our wood turning club. I have been to his house and have seen this bowl lathe personally, and he has done some great work on it. He also built a rose engine lathe and has demo'd it just recently at two of the clubs I belong to.

Dale has a mechanical mind and really thinks things through in his designs. If you want to have a lot of horsepower like a 5 hp lathe and do very big pieces, then probably some bracing welded onto the main frame would be in order. Dale is good to help folks!

 

[Michael Poorman]

My Lathe, "Big Blue"

Hi Dan,

This is the lathe I built.


54" swing
18" between centers
~1300 pounds, it's filled with sand

Funny enough I just wrote up a post on the build process, design, & cost of making my lathe. You can check out the article here. A lot of the materials were given to me which really helped the bottom line. For the headstock, I used one from an old metal lathe that has back gearing. The motor is 870 rpm 2hp 3 phase and is driven via a vfd with an over sized injection braking module. With various pulley configurations I can go from just a few rpm to 1500 with plenty of torque. The weak link in the current setup is the v-belt that goes from the counter shaft to the spindle. I'm planning to make new pulleys that will take 10 groove j-section v-belts, but honestly the current configuration provides all the power I need for the work I'm currently doing.

The biggest pieces I've turned so far were hickory and maple that started around 24" X 7".

Things I'd change if I were to start over would be actually fabricating the headstock too & use tapered roller bearings. Maybe design it to not need a counter shaft, but that really doesn't bother me too much.

 

[Michael Nathal]

I think you need to have a tail stock for added support of unbalanced large pieces. Look at the Vega bowl lathe for comparison. In fact I wonder if you can match their lathe and price point unless you had access to lots of free parts, plus welding and machining capability.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

While it can't hurt to have a tailstock, there are tons of videos on the web showing some huge loads on the VB36 with only a face plate and no tail stock.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Hi Dan,

This is the lathe I built.
View attachment 8578

54" swing
18" between centers
~1300 pounds, it's filled with sand

Funny enough I just wrote up a post on the build process, design, & cost of making my lathe. You can check out the article here. A lot of the materials were given to me which really helped the bottom line. For the headstock, I used one from an old metal lathe that has back gearing. The motor is 870 rpm 2hp 3 phase and is driven via a vfd with an over sized injection braking module. With various pulley configurations I can go from just a few rpm to 1500 with plenty of torque. The weak link in the current setup is the v-belt that goes from the counter shaft to the spindle. I'm planning to make new pulleys that will take 10 groove j-section v-belts, but honestly the current configuration provides all the power I need for the work I'm currently doing.

The biggest pieces I've turned so far were hickory and maple that started around 24" X 7".

Things I'd change if I were to start over would be actually fabricating the headstock too & use tapered roller bearings. Maybe design it to not need a counter shaft, but that really doesn't bother me too much.

Just wanted to say thanks for posting your adventure. I just finished reading it and thoroughly enjoyed it! Lots of material for those of us wanting to learn.

 

[Lee Tourtelotte]

Building a large lathe

If I was to start that kind of project, I would look for a donor machine. Either metal lathe or wood lathe. On a total scratch built machine, you are going to have some serious money in the main shaft if you want the internal taper. Unless you can find a metal working hobbyist that is highly skilled. With a donor machine like a Powermatic 90, you get a banjo and a tailstock, as well as the head with bearings that are made for the thrust loads. Plain ole pillow blocks are not made for thrust loading. I agree with the other assessments. Not enough gussetting on the base. I would start with a LARGE H beam for the main column. Also too short of shaft and bearings, and I really wouldn't like the idea of no tailstock. But all these recommendations are based on larger scale work. If you won't get much over 18", then the light weight machine will likely work. I'm getting old enough that time is a big consideration. I'm about to the point where if I was in your position, I would consider a Robust American Beauty, use it for 10 years, and probably get at least 75% of the investment back when you sold it. Might just work out to be the same money if you can afford the initial investment.

For anyone following this thread, our Minnesota Woodturners club has been working with a Minneapolis woman, helping her to sell her late husband's woodworking tools. What might be of particular interest to any potential lathe builders is an older, very heavy duty, lathe that could be a "donor" machine, as Richard suggests above. This ~ 20" swing lathe currently has a wooden bed & trestle leg (on the tail stock side). However, the head stock, spindle & left side has been seriously upgraded with heavy steel box tubing and is powered by a 2 HP motor with a Leeson variable speed drive. I could foresee a relatively low cost conversion by a handy steelworker, transforming this old lathe to a very husky, VB-36 type, big bowl lathe, by removing the wooden bed and right side wooden trestle leg and then fabricating and attaching a lower steel bed that would yield a 36" swing for turning very large bowls. The existing tail stock is very massive, I estimate ~ 75 lbs, and a riser could be made for it to accommodate the new 36" spindle height. (Selling price is $300. for pickup in Minneapolis) For further information, contact Lee Tourtelotte, email:
leetourtelotte@msn.com

 

[Michael Poorman]

Just wanted to say thanks for posting your adventure. I just finished reading it and thoroughly enjoyed it! Lots of material for those of us wanting to learn.

My pleasure, it's always a blast to share this project and a real treat when someone new comes over to try it out! Glad you liked the article.

 

[olaf Vogel]

Here's an example of a custom lathe, for sale locally, similar to the Moultroupe design.


Basic, maybe a bit out dates, but functional. I checked it out, but the price was too high.

Olaf

 

[Steve Worcester]

Not a big fan of bolting to the floor, it works until it doesn't and the results are catastrophic.
Like the idea of a wide footprint that doesn't get in the way and the ability to weigh it down with sand or shot, something to dampen the vibration. Then I prefer some way to level it to lessen the vibration.
as far as spindle thread, 1 1/4" is a good number to allow for a wide variety of readily available options for chucks and faceplates, etc. Bigger becomes difficult to mount them. Morse taper not really needed if you think about what is available as a screw on option for Spurs.
motor size, if you can get a deal on a 5HP, awesome, otherwise a good VFD and motor properly programmed with a 2-3HP will do fine. While you may want to do big, say >30", once you do a few and realize how scary it is, you may not. I did.
tailstock is a great safety factor, not mandatory, but I use it all the time for almost all work I do regardless of size. Even the best screws and faceplates come loose occasionally with a catch, and that's when you want it. Especially with large work.
thats where tail to face alignment comes into play. A little bit is acceptable, a lot makes a big hole and doesn't do much good.