chuck needed

[jeff robinson]

I have a small lathe from rockler and I'm interested in buying a chuck. I'm looking for some guidance in which one to buy. I use my lathe for turning pens right now but would like to try turning some bowls and some other projects that require a chuck. The lathe takes a MT2 1" x 8 TPI spindle and can turn up to a 10" bowl. I'm looking for a mid range I'm sure I will end up getting a bigger lathe in the future so maybe one that will work for the small lathe I have now and work on a bigger one. Thanks Jeff

 

[hockenbery]

For the small lathes I like the ONEWAY talon.
It has a large assortment of jaw sets. You can get an insert for practically any lathe.
IMHO if you want to swap inserts the one ways are the best for this.
Most other chucks the locking mechanisms involve set screws for the insert won't hold up to lots of changes

That said for big work on a big lathe my favorite chuck is the vicmarc.
Mostly because of the key which is so easy to use.

If you want to use indexing and your lathe does not have a useable indexing system, the VicMarks have indexing on the back.

We have three ONEWAY Strongholds and they are great chucks. Their keys are harder to use.

Have fun
Al

 

[Hy Tran]

I personally own a Oneway Talon and a few extra jaws (the spigot & the #3). It is strong and very durable. In addition, as Al says, you can change the insert for different headstock threads (1x8, 1.25x8, etc.) if you change lathes later.

That said, our club uses the Barracuda from Penn State Ind (specifically, the Barracuda2 t/n plate) with our teaching lathes. This is also a very nice chuck. Some of them have gotten a bit beat-up (e.g. not everyone is obsessive compulsive about being careful using and cleaning it). For the value, nowadays, I'd probably buy that chuck because it comes with all the jaws, as you develop more time-on-lathe. If you choose to change lathes later (or keep lathe but upgrade hardware), you can make a decision if you are exclusively a pepper mill turner (spigot) or a lidded box turner (#2), or a combination (then think about the Easy Wood with the easy-change jaws).

Hy

For the small lathes I like the ONEWAY talon.
It has a large assortment of jaw sets. You can get an insert for practically any lathe.
IMHO if you want to swap inserts the one ways are the best for this.
Most other chucks the locking mechanisms involve set screws for the insert won't hold up to lots of changes

That said for big work on a big lathe my favorite chuck is the vicmarc.
Mostly because of the key which is so easy to use.

If you want to use indexing and your lathe does not have a useable indexing system, the VicMarks have indexing on the back.

We have three ONEWAY Strongholds and they are great chucks. Their keys are harder to use.

Have fun
Al

 

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

another option would be the Nova Midi chuck.

it's a direct thread 1x8, uses most of Nova's jaws, and overall is one of the smaller/lighter chucks out there - and works well on small lathes.

 

[Sean Boyle]

I have several chucks and my first choice is the Oneway talon and stronghold for larger work well worth the money

 

[dbonertz]

Jeff,

I just want to make a suggestion. If you are thinking someday of getting a bigger lathe then consider purchasing a chuck not just for the chuck but the chuck line. It is easier when the operation is the same throughout the chucks you own. I own nothing but vicmarcs for their quality, inserts available and jaws available. Vicmarcs, oneways and novas are probably your better choices. Just look over their lines to make sure they operate the same within their chuck body sizes and have the chuck body sizes and accessories/jaws available for future upgrades. For efficiency purposes it makes sense to use the kiss theory on these types of decisions. There really is no need to have different brands in your chuck collection IMHO.

 

[JeffSmith]

Jeff - The OneWay Talon is a great chuck. it works well on smaller lathes, but, as you go to bigger equipment, it is still a good option for smaller work on larger lathes. I've got a few talons, a OneWay chuck that accepts the same jaws (it's a good, low cost option to the Talon as an entry to their line) and a few OneWay Strongholds for larger projects. Just can't pass up a chuck when I see a good deal.
I don't think you can go wrong with the Talon, but you might want to look into the OneWay chuck, too. It is operated with Tommy Bars instead of a key, but it is a good solid performer at a very reasonable price - and everything is interchangeable with the Talon if you decide to go that way later.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I agree with Al. Even though I have one of the big lathes, about 90% of the time, I use a Talon chuck. Here's a secret I'll share, it's the project and not the lathe that dictates which size chuck is best. A big chuck body blocks access when working from the headstock side of the piece, so use a big chuck when necessary, but otherwise smaller is better.

Oneway has the best support that you will find. I was changing inserts from 1X8 to 1.25X8 and one of the cap screws failed in tension as I was backing out the old insert ... a really sick feeling. Even though the chuck was almost ten years old, they sent me gratis a new set of Unbrako ISO class 10.9 (same as SAE grade 8) cap screws. Try to get any kind of after warranty support from a chuck made in Asia.

 

[john lucas]

I have a lot of chucks but a good buy are the chucks from www.chucksplus.com Not the least expensive but not the highest. They are copies of the Vicmarc chucks which I love a lot and own about 4 of them. I have the Grizzly copy also but recommend the Chucks plus over the Grizzly.

 

[odie]

I have three Oneway Stronghold chucks. I don't like the inconvenience of changing jaws, so that's why I have three of them. I bought the first Stronghold in the early 1990's and have kept with that model ever since. I bought the second two about ten years ago, and other than these two later versions have a different chuck key that are not interchangeable, they are identical. The accessory jaws are all interchangeable.

My first chuck was one of the original Teknatool Nova chucks purchased in the 1980's. Shortly after that, I bought two sizes of the Vicmarc chucks. I'll have to say that the Vicmarc chucks have amazing quality and accuracy in the machining. All three of these chucks used the tommy bars, and I grew tired of this method of manipulating the jaws rather quickly. Vicmarc and Nova chucks now are operated with chuck keys, and if mine had not been using tommy bars, I might have kept them.

The reason I bought my first Oneway Stronghold chuck, is because I wanted the larger Mega Jumbo jaws that were offered as an accessory at that time. Because the Stronghold was offered with a chuck key operation, it was an easy decision to make.

I have nothing negative to say about Nova, Vicmarc, and Stronghold......as long as they operate with a chuck key. All three brands are very high quality.

If I were looking to buy a chuck right now, that Easywood chuck with the quick interchanging jaws would be very appealing to me.......but, that's the only advantage I see over having one individual Stronghold chuck. Three Stronghold chucks were a pretty expensive route to take, but it's one of those things that the money spent was soon forgotten.......it was well worth it to me at that time.

ko

 

[robo hippy]

The only bad thing about the Vicmark chucks is the plastic T part of the handle on the allan wrench. I have twisted the plastic handles off of them. I do use them a LOT, and don't over tighten. I got some wire type T loop handles, and they are a lot better. I prefer the dove tail jaws and Vicmark used to be the only ones that had them. I think both Nova and Oneway have them now. Maybe some day I will buy a Nova and a Oneway chuck to compare and do a demolition test on them to see if I can wear them out....

robo hippy

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I do not know about other brands I have 3 Super Nova's and 1 Barracuda. The Nova does not have dovetail jaws , it only looks like it. They doe dovetail on expansion mode only. I have been well pleased with the SN and have several different jaws, need to get some 100mm. Been very well pleased with the SN. Did loose some bowls initially , but learned to do that better. Two of mine are refurbs ,but I think they have now gone up on them to $128. It does have the one wrench and the action is the reverse of all these other chucks, ie tight left and loose right.
The Barracuda is a good chuck at low cost and comes with all the jaws. The chuck works well however it seems to need retightening on a regular basis . This chuck is set up permanently with cole jaws with long pins.
Guess everyone has a different take and some may depend on what you plan to turn. Everyone will have different opinions depending on the equi.pment they have used or been exposed to

 

[Bill Boehme]

I forgot to mention that I have a couple Vicmarc chucks and agree that they are the best in smooth operating and high precision. I do not like their screw-in inserts for the spindle threads. No problems with the key handles.

 

[dbonertz]

Bill,
What don't you like about the screw in inserts? I have both direct thread and a couple with inserts. No difference in performance with them. I also have never had a problem with the T handles.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I have 29 chucks, mostly Novas. I have Vicmarc, Bulldog, Axminster and a Oneway. I used to say any of the top three (Nova, Vicmarc and Oneway) were good choices but I now add the Bulldog and Axminster to that group. My first choice has always been the Nova as all the jaws fit all the chucks (with the one exception, the 5" power jaws only fit the original Titan chuck) where the other companies chucks need different jaws when you get the bigger chuck. As far as those who say the 2" jaws that are standard to the Nova are not dovetailed on the inside you need to look again. The top 1/8" is dovetailed and I make my tenons 1/8 to 3/16 deep dovetailed. They hold superbly and I have never had a problem with this method. If you don't believe it get a piece of clay and make an impression and you will see that 1/8 dovetail.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

i have one oneway stronghold chuck......I have 2 different inserts for it.....I have never seen the need to have more chucks......I take the jaws off the chuck after each session of turning

 

[Bill Boehme]

Bill,
What don't you like about the screw in inserts? I have both direct thread and a couple with inserts. No difference in performance with them. I also have never had a problem with the T handles.

I suspect that most people use the chuck key to unthread the chuck from the lathe spindle although the proper way to do it is to use the little tommy bar so that the set screw threads and insert threads don't become boogered up. Also, keeping track of the tommy bar is a pain.

 

[hockenbery]

I have 29 chucks, mostly Novas. I have Vicmarc, Bulldog, Axminster and a Oneway. I used to say any of the top three (Nova, Vicmarc and Oneway) were good choices but I now add the Bulldog and Axminster to that group. My first choice has always been the Nova as all the jaws fit all the chucks (with the one exception, the 5" power jaws only fit the original Titan chuck) where the other companies chucks need different jaws when you get the bigger chuck. As far as those who say the 2" jaws that are standard to the Nova are not dovetailed on the inside you need to look again. The top 1/8" is dovetailed and I make my tenons 1/8 to 3/16 deep dovetailed. They hold superbly and I have never had a problem with this method. If you don't believe it get a piece of clay and make an impression and you will see that 1/8 dovetail.

Bill,
I think of the Nova as needing a little groove for the top of jaw.
A straight tenon will often pull out of a Nova so it gets a bad name.
That little groove lets the chuck lock on and hold well.
I never realized it was a tiny dovetail. Thanks,
Al

 

[Andy Chen]

Jeff,

My favorite chucks have been Vicmarcs (1 VM140 and 2 VM100) for about 15 years now. I also own 2 Oneway Strongholds, one purchased and the other as a gift. I hardly use them because the dust and grinds get into the exposed gears too easily and won't operate smoothly as a result. The other reason I like the VMs better is the dovetail jaws (as opposed to serrated) grip much better in my hand. (For the same reasons, I never contemplated purchasing a Talon.) The trouble with all these chucks is that they cost nearly as much as a mini lathe. There are many lower cost chucks available these days, many of them having been mentioned in this thread, that are not cheap but a little more palatable. One that I have not seen mentioned is the Hurricane series from thewoodturningstore.com. In the recently-completed World Wood Day 2015 celebration in Turkey, the turners had a chance to put an HTC100 4" chuck through the ringers. I am happy to report that it came through with flying colors. It is made in China (what isn't these days?) However, it has a quality appearance as you open the box, unlike some other Chinese products I have seen (and frankly, come to expect, unfortunately). It operates smoothly and the jaws have no more free play than my VMs. All my fellow woodturners who had a chance to use it in Turkey were impressed by it. The only drawback, if you can call it a drawback is its mass. It is a whole pound heavier than another knock-off I have! That presented a challenge when I was limited to 50 lb on my checked luggage. So, Jeff, there is one more option in your quest for a good chuck.

One more thing I would like to mention. This HTC100 chuck was donated by Steve Fulgoni, the owner of The Woodturning Store. We appreciate his generosity for a good cause.

 

[hockenbery]

Andy,
Weight can be a good thing.
When I do natural edge crotch bowl demos on a mini or midi lathe I use a stronghold with dovetail jaws.
The extra weight helps over come the out of balance of the wood.
One more pound would help.

I don't fly with a chuck. Every place I go will have a decent one for me.


Al

 

[Glen Blanchard]

The comments that I am about to make are regarding Nova's 50mm jaws - the jaws that come standard on the G3 as well as the SuperNova. I believe they apply to most (but probably not all) of Nova's jaws.

As I understand it, the jaws are dovetailed on the outside and are intended to be placed into a dovetailed recess of the correct angle. However, for spigot/compression mode, the tenon should have parallel sides and should not be dovetailed when the tenon is turned. There is a lip that bites into the tenon closest to the shoulder and in a sense, I suppose, creates a bit of a dovetailed configuration, but it is not a dovetail. Furthermore, a recess to accommodate the lip is not recommended. The following comes from the Teknatool website:

FORMING SPIGOT:
When selecting wood make sure it is sound without splits or weakness - especially around the
area where the spigot is to be formed. REMEMBER WITH FREE END TURNING, THIS IS THE
ONLY AREA FOR GRIP. IF ANY WEAKNESS IS FOUND, DO NOT PROCEED. Mount wood between
centres and turn the spigot area. Make the spigot as parallel as possible to maximise the
efficiency of the clamping action. Only approximate sizing of the spigot is necessary, as the jaws
will accommodate a wide range of spigot diameters within the spigot limits stated above. The
50mm (2 inches) standard jaw has a thin lip (or shoulder at the front face) which is designed to
bite into the timber as the jaws are tightened. DO NOT CUT A RECESS FOR THE LIP TO FIT INTO,
AS THIS WILL REDUCE GRIPPING POWER.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Bill,
What don't you like about the screw in inserts? I have both direct thread and a couple with inserts. No difference in performance with them. I also have never had a problem with the T handles.

Answer #2 to your question:

I gave a reply early this morning, but I have follow up information to relate. I had an all day class with Jimmy Clewes.today and my lathe had a Vicmarc VM-100 chuck. When it came time to remove the chuck, instead of doing it the "right" way using the tommy bar inserted into the thread adapter, out of habit, I put the jaw tightening key into the chuck body ... the procedure that I use when removing a Talon or Stronghold chuck. The thread adapter was halfway unscrewed before I noticed it. Then it was another ten minutes wasted getting everything straightened out. Moral of the story:

1. Do things correctly
2. it's stupid to need two different tools for normal chuck operation

BTW, I had a great time in the class.

 

[Bill Blasic]

The comments that I am about to make are regarding Nova's 50mm jaws - the jaws that come standard on the G3 as well as the SuperNova. I believe they apply to most (but probably not all) of Nova's jaws.

As I understand it, the jaws are dovetailed on the outside and are intended to be placed into a dovetailed recess of the correct angle. However, for spigot/compression mode, the tenon should have parallel sides and should not be dovetailed when the tenon is turned. There is a lip that bites into the tenon closest to the shoulder and in a sense, I suppose, creates a bit of a dovetailed configuration, but it is not a dovetail. Furthermore, a recess to accommodate the lip is not recommended. The following comes from the Teknatool website:

FORMING SPIGOT:
When selecting wood make sure it is sound without splits or weakness - especially around the
area where the spigot is to be formed. REMEMBER WITH FREE END TURNING, THIS IS THE
ONLY AREA FOR GRIP. IF ANY WEAKNESS IS FOUND, DO NOT PROCEED. Mount wood between
centres and turn the spigot area. Make the spigot as parallel as possible to maximise the
efficiency of the clamping action. Only approximate sizing of the spigot is necessary, as the jaws
will accommodate a wide range of spigot diameters within the spigot limits stated above. The
50mm (2 inches) standard jaw has a thin lip (or shoulder at the front face) which is designed to
bite into the timber as the jaws are tightened. DO NOT CUT A RECESS FOR THE LIP TO FIT INTO,
AS THIS WILL REDUCE GRIPPING POWER.

Glen, I stand behind what I said. You notice they also state a wide range of sizes for the spigot. It is best to have the spigot sized where it is a bit larger than the circle formed when the jaws are closed. Just because they wrote that does not make it exact or right. The advantage of a dovetail is that not only does it hold in compression it also pulls the piece down to the top of the jaws. Try it both ways and see which way the piece runs truer.

 

[hockenbery]

I will also add that one of the problems beginners have is turning a proper tenon.

For straight jaws a very slight cone shaped tenon will often not hold in the nova.
The ONEWAY profile jaws have a better chance of holding it.
The nova with a groove cut at the top has a better chance too.

I have seen dovetail jaws hold some awful tenons.
The bowl might flop around but the tenon stays in the jaws.
The ONEWAY profile jaws don't let go either.
The nova jaws IMHO require a proper tenon more so than Dovetail jaws or ONEWAY profile jaws.

Still all should strive for a Tenon to match the depth, profile and diameter of the jaws they are using.

For 2" jaws I always rough turn with 2.5" tenons.
This gives a tenon that can be turned round when the bowl,is dry and still fit the two inch jaws.
It is also easy to measure by eye or with a ruler.
The center on the ONEWAY and it various copies is 5/8" diameter, come out an inch by eye and you have a 2.5" tenon.

Al

 

[Bill Boehme]

... it also pulls the piece down to the top of the jaws...

Dovetail jaws ... or any other type for that matter, absolutely and positively can't do that. They will bite into the wood and hold it wherever it grabs the tenon if there is no externally applied axial force to push the shoulder of the tenon against the top of the jaw.

A profiled jaw is much better at holding a tenon.

A dovetail jaw is much better for repeatable alignment accuracy when removing and reinstalling a piece in a chuck.

 

[hockenbery]

I find that the dovetail jaws excel at holding a short tenon.
I know folks who use the profile jaws with one tooth but I just feel more confident with dovetails on short tenons.

We use dovetails on our strongholds most of the time for face grain work.
The profile jaws might actually hold (better) on a long tenon but dovetails hold the bowl in place running true to completion.
So it is a mute point if the profile holds with more force because the dovetails hold with enough force..

I do always use the profile jaws on square or flat pieces

 

[dbonertz]

Bill,

I would have to argue that the insert wasn't put on correctly if it came loose. I have three chucks with inserts and have never experienced that. I would also argue that it is not an incorrect method of using the allen wrench to loosen the chuck. When you use a chuck without the insert (direct thread) there is no tommy bar hole to loosen the chuck from the spindle - designed to use the allen wrench. The tommy bar is for loosening and tightening the insert to the chuck. At least with mine. BTW I think you mentioned that the jaws for different sized chucks are not interchangeable. They are for the 120, 140 and 150. The 100 and 90 are a smaller chuck body and they have their own line of interchangeable jaws.

So Jeff now you have more information than you could ever hope for and I suppose you're more confused than ever. Everyone gets used to what they have and the use they use it for. I'll stand by original statement that IMO the best chuck is the one that fits your budget and has a product line of jaws and chuck body sizes to fit your future plans. There have been complaints about many of the brands mentioned but you rarely hear problems with vicmarc, oneway and nova.

 

[Glen Blanchard]

The advantage of a dovetail is that not only does it hold in compression it also pulls the piece down to the top of the jaws. Try it both ways and see which way the piece runs truer.

I'm no expert but it seems to me that surface area comes into play here, no? If the tenon is not formed to mate with the inside surface of the jaws, there will be less mating surfaces. Thus, turning a dovetail when the jaws opposing surfaces are parallel to each other would seem to translate to less surface area (tenon:jaw) in contact with one another. This, then, would decrease retention of the tenon.

At least in theory.

Bill, your thoughts?

 

[hockenbery]

I'm no expert but it seems to me that surface area comes into play here, no? If the tenon is not formed to mate with the inside surface of the jaws, there will be less mating surfaces. Thus, turning a dovetail when the jaws opposing surfaces are parallel to each other would seem to translate to less surface area (tenon:jaw) in contact with one another. This, then, would decrease retention of the tenon. At least in theory. Bill, your thoughts?

Glen,

There are several things in your question.
Mating surface is both the angle of the tenon sides and the diameter of the tenon relative to the jaws.

First you are correct that straight jaws require a tenon with walls at 90 degrees.
Dovetail jaws require a dovetail tenon at the same angle.
Straight jaws won't hold a dove tail well and it will likely pull out of the chuck
Dove tail jaws might hold a straight tenon.

The second part is some trade off on the diameter.
Jaws have their maximum grip when almost totally closed. With dry wood you can make a tenon a fraction of an inch larger than the closed diameter and get the best hold.

Green wood is going to shrink. So I use a tenon a 1/2" larger than the closed diameter. Not the best hold but good enough.
The ONEWAY profile jaws will hold this size almost as well as they will a smaller tenon
Dovetail jaws will hold a tenon this size well enough for those not make egregious catches.

And there are faceplates. I do most of my face grain hollow forms with faceplates. Just has less vibration and makes the hollowing more pleasant and faster.
Al

 

[Glen Blanchard]

Glen,

There are several things in your question.
Mating surface is both the angle of the tenon sides and the diameter of the tenon relative to the jaws.

First you are correct that straight jaws require a tenon with walls at 90 degrees.
Dovetail jaws require a dovetail tenon at the same angle.
Straight jaws won't hold a dove tail well and it will likely pull out of the chuck
Dove tail jaws might hold a straight tenon.

The second part is some trade off on the diameter.
Jaws have their maximum grip when almost totally closed. With dry wood you can make a tenon a fraction of an inch larger than the closed diameter and get the best hold.

Green wood is going to shrink. So I use a tenon a 1/2" larger than the closed diameter. Not the best hold but good enough.
The ONEWAY profile jaws will hold this size almost as well as they will a smaller tenon
Dovetail jaws will hold a tenon this size well enough for those not make egregious catches.

And there are faceplates. I do most of my face grain hollow forms with faceplates. Just has less vibration and makes the hollowing more pleasant and faster.
Al

Al,

There are indeed many variables in play here. Geometry of the jaws and tenon, the degree of closure of the jaws, green wood vs. dry, etc. What I should have included in my post is the wording, "everything else being equal". If we eliminate all THOSE variables, is there greater mating surface area when a dovetailed tenon is placed in dovetailed jaws of the same angle or in jaws with parallel sides? My logic tells me that the greatest mating surface area is obtained dovetail:dovetail or parallel : parallel if we standardize the other variables. If maximizing the mating surface area is important enough to turn a tenon that will allow the jaws to close almost completely, then it would seem to be less than ideal to put a dovetailed tenon in jaws with parallel sides.

 

[hockenbery]

Al, There are indeed many variables in play here. then it would seem to be less than ideal to put a dovetailed tenon in jaws with parallel sides.

Glen
straight jaws will not reliably hold a dovetail tenon. It will pull out.
You have only the thin bit of wood at the top of the dovetail touching the jaws. It will break, deform and not hold.

The basics of chuck use is to turn a tenon that matches the profile of the jaws.

There may have been some confusion about the nova jaws.
They are straight with a little ring at the top or a tiny dovetail at the top inner edge of the straight jaw.
When I use these jaws I turn a straight tenon and the put a small grove to match the ring at the inner top of the jaws.
This allows the jaws to close tightly and hold better IMHO.

Al

 

[Bill Boehme]

Glen
straight jaws will not reliably hold a dovetail tenon. It will pull out.
You have only the thin bit of wood at the top of the dovetail touching the jaws. It will break, deform and not hold....

Al, I nearly always use a dovetail tenon when using Oneway profiled jaws. The dovetail angle is very small, perhaps three or four degrees and also, the wood is compressible enough to not have the situation that you describe. For green wood, I generally make the dovetail angle more pronounced. If I were turning something hard like dry cocobolo or dry live oak (and I don't), I would not count on compressing the fibers at the end of the tenon with profiled jaws.

 

[hockenbery]

Al, I nearly always use a dovetail tenon when using Oneway profiled jaws. The dovetail angle is very small, perhaps three or four degrees and also, the wood is compressible enough to not have the situation that you describe. For green wood, I generally make the dovetail angle more pronounced. If I were turning something hard like dry cocobolo or dry live oak (and I don't), I would not count on compressing the fibers at the end of the tenon with profiled jaws.

You are making a 93-94 degree tenon angle.
That is not what I would call a dovetail but rather an acceptable deviation from the 90 degree tenon in the good direction.
That small deviation is quite safe and effective.
94 degrees is much much better than making the angle 89 degrees.
In the worst case the wider contact at the top of the tenon might push the work off the top of the jaws a bit as it compresses.

I go as close 90 degree for the tenon as I can eyeball with the profile jaws. I want the profile ridges biting evenly along the whole tenon.
Any given day my tenon could be 93 degrees.
But 4 degrees makes the tenon about a 16th wider at the top and I would expect to see that.

Al

 

[Glen Blanchard]

That is not what I would call a dovetail but rather an acceptable deviation from the 90 degree tenon in the good direction.

That makes sense. No doubt, a great deal of what we would consider to be straight tenons are not exactly 90 degrees. If we are talking about that small of a deviation from 90 degrees, and if the "dovetail" points in the right direction, I would consider it to be negligible.

 

[Andy Chen]

Answer #2 to your question:

I gave a reply early this morning, but I have follow up information to relate. I had an all day class with Jimmy Clewes.today and my lathe had a Vicmarc VM-100 chuck. When it came time to remove the chuck, instead of doing it the "right" way using the tommy bar inserted into the thread adapter, out of habit, I put the jaw tightening key into the chuck body ... the procedure that I use when removing a Talon or Stronghold chuck. The thread adapter was halfway unscrewed before I noticed it. Then it was another ten minutes wasted getting everything straightened out. Moral of the story:

1. Do things correctly
2. it's stupid to need two different tools for normal chuck operation

BTW, I had a great time in the class.

Bill, don't you have a genuine Vicmarc threaded insert for your VM100? The Vicmarc inserts have a set screw in the insert that you tighten against the chuck body as shown in the attached photo. (I presume the set screw is primarily to prevent the separation of the insert from the chuck on reverse rotation.) If you tighten that screw (doing things correctly) then there is no way the insert will unscrew even if you use the chuck key to unscrew the chuck from the spindle. BTW, the first thing I did after I received the VM100 many years ago was to bore the hole in the insert for the Tommy bar to 3/8" (from 5/16") so that I could use the same bar for the VM140 I had bought previously.

You have seen my organizer on the head stock. If you have one of those then you don't have to hunt for that stupid Tommy bar.

Oh, do you know what that groove in the genuine VM insert is for?

 

[Bill Boehme]

Way! To say that there is no way that it could unscrew obviously wasn't the case. It wasn't my chuck so I don't know the owner nor the history of its use or misuse, but my observation from many years taking classes is that chucks used in classes aren't treated with the greatest of respect. There was five days of classes before the class that I took on Friday. The setscrew only adds friction and not a positive means of locking the insert. My guess is that the chuck may have at one or more times been stuck really tight on the spindle and using the hex key to remove the chuck puts all the torque load on the insert. I am assuming that Vicmarc didn't provide the fancy tommy bar with their chucks if it wasn't meant to be used. Bottom line -- I didn't have time to do a forensic analysis ... it was a very fast paced class. I did bring my own Vicmarc, but my insert is 1¼X8 and the lathe spindle was 1X8.

I did not have the luxury of dragging my Robust to the class. The lathe that was assigned to me was a ... ugh ... Grizzly midi variable speed wimpy powerless wonder with a micro tool rest. It had a tailstock that was hard to slide and a toolrest banjo that was even harder to reposition. I must say that it did have a really nice green paint job. Guess that I have been spoiled rotten. One of our members has a shop that is about 40 X 80 feet and that is where we had the classes.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Way! To say that there is no way that it could unscrew obviously wasn't the case. It wasn't my chuck so I don't know the owner nor the history of its use or misuse, but my observation from many years taking classes is that chucks used in classes aren't treated with the greatest of respect. There was five days of classes before the class that I took on Friday. The setscrew only adds friction and not a positive means of locking the insert. My guess is that the chuck may have at one or more times been stuck really tight on the spindle and using the hex key to remove the chuck puts all the torque load on the insert. I am assuming that Vicmarc didn't provide the fancy tommy bar with their chucks if it wasn't meant to be used. Bottom line -- I didn't have time to do a forensic analysis ... it was a very fast paced class. I did bring my own Vicmarc, but my insert is 1¼X8 and the lathe spindle was 1X8.

I did not have the luxury of dragging my Robust to the class. The lathe that was assigned to me was a ... ugh ... Grizzly midi variable speed wimpy powerless wonder with a micro tool rest. It had a tailstock that was hard to slide and a toolrest banjo that was even harder to reposition. I must say that it did have a really nice green paint job. Guess that I have been spoiled rotten. One of our members has a shop that is about 40 X 80 feet and that is where we had the classes.

Bill Another good thing about the insert for Nova is that it has a hex nut to aid in removal. Then the secondary thing about easy removal is to use a plastic washer and never a stuck chuck again.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Bill Another good thing about the insert for Nova is that it has a hex nut to aid in removal. Then the secondary thing about easy removal is to use a plastic washer and never a stuck chuck again.

I have some plastic washers that came with the chucks that I bought from Craft Supplies, but I don't use them. I've never had a problem with a stuck chuck ... ever. I don't think this is a normal occurrence and the plastic washer is just a band aid -- perhaps a register face that is not perfectly flat or not exactly perpendicular to the spindle axis could be a reason for a stuck chuck. Or, maybe damaged threads or perhaps getting a lollapalooza of a catch.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I have some plastic washers that came with the chucks that I bought from Craft Supplies, but I don't use them. I've never had a problem with a stuck chuck ... ever. I don't think this is a normal occurrence and the plastic washer is just a band aid -- perhaps a register face that is not perfectly flat or not exactly perpendicular to the spindle axis could be a reason for a stuck chuck. Or, maybe damaged threads or perhaps getting a lollapalooza of a catch.

Yes when that happened on my Midi I was getting some nice catches. However remember that the surface of the plastic washer is slick and will allow easier removal even under normal circumstance. In my opinion even perfectly smooth metal will grip quite tightly in some circumstances as in turning wet wood and not removing the chuck right away. So I would rather err on the side of less work in the long run.

 

[hockenbery]

I haven't used plastic washers for about 20 years.
In some cases they can keep a faceplate or chuck from seating properly.

A metal to metal contact will seat chucks and faceplates as well as they can be seated.
I always tighten the chuck with a small force when I put it on.
Then it always comes off with the same force.

Al