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odie

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For the past half a decade, I've been spending more and more time with tool work (surface preparation for sanding), and less and less time sanding. Overall, I'm spending an overall increased combined time on my bowls.......and because it means less distortion, crisp mating of surfaces, consistent detail grooves, it's worth every single bit of my increased effort/time!

There have been a number of times where I've started sanding at 400, and two days ago, I had a surface on an Ash bowl where I started sanding at 600. This is a first, and it's such a pleasure to finish off a surface with a minute or two of hand held 600 sandpaper! (couple of fist pumps! :cool:)

Sharp tools are an absolute necessity, yes......but, it can't be done without developing your personal technique for tool control.

Off to work.....(this is my Friday)

ko
 
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john lucas

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Well I can certainly agree with that. Cutting edge presentation to the wood and control of the tool are just as important as a sharp tool. Ash is wonderful to turn.
 
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Okay, you have a right to brag about that. That 'cleanest possible finish cut' is some thing I keep working on. I have found that I get a much better finish when turning dry wood than I do when turning green wood, once turned bowls. I figure shrinkage has some thing to do with that, and possible grain is better supported by firmer dry wood. Not sure. Most of the time I am now able to start at 120. Probably could do 180 some times, depending on wood species, but some times it is faster to drop down a grit.

robo hippy
 

Bill Boehme

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Welcome to the "600 Club", Odie.

Have you heard the latest? Sixty grit sandpaper is the new bowl gouge. :rolleyes: (Just pulling your leg)

Tell your boss that I said that you could have the rest of the day off.
 

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Hey, thanks guys! :D

It probably goes without saying that I can't, and don't expect to have tool finishes to this level of quality as the norm......but, it's nice to know that I can do it when the wood species and circumstantial physical characteristics favor this kind of result. Normally, I find it very gratifying to start sanding at 220, or even 180.....and, this really depends on the circumstances of the moment!

For some really difficult woods, like extremely rotten soft and punky spalted......I'll still probably use Bill's "60 grit bowl gouge"! :p

The finer the grit that can be applied as a starting point to a tool finish, the less distortion there will be as the result of sanding......and that's the key to success for my kind of turning style!:D

ko
 
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Prrof

yea well prove it ODIE lets see some pics
damn thats impressive
i can sand through 6 grits and still not get to a finish worthy of 600


For the past half a decade, I've been spending more and more time with tool work (surface preparation for sanding), and less and less time sanding. Overall, I'm spending an overall increased combined time on my bowls.......and because it means less distortion, crisp mating of surfaces, consistent detail grooves, it's worth every single bit of my increased effort/time!

There have been a number of times where I've started sanding at 400, and two days ago, I had a surface on an Ash bowl where I started sanding at 600. This is a first, and it's such a pleasure to finish off a surface with a minute or two of hand held 600 sandpaper! (couple of fist pumps! :cool:)

Sharp tools are an absolute necessity, yes......but, it can't be done without developing your personal technique for tool control.

Off to work.....(this is my Friday)

ko
 

odie

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yea well prove it ODIE lets see some pics
damn thats impressive
i can sand through 6 grits and still not get to a finish worthy of 600

Well, hello Allen.......

The ash bowl is still out in the shop waiting to be buffed out. I'm not sure a photo is proof, but I can get that for you, if you'd like.....let me know. I believe the actual undisputable proof can only be had if you were standing in my shop with me when I did it.......

One thing that is significant about this bowl, is it has about a dozen separate surfaces that all mate together with crisp clean intersecting corners. That is a near impossibility if sanding is a major contributor to the surface quality. There is also about ten cleanly cut detail grooves that do not vary in depth and width detectable to the eye. This is also the result of minimal sanding. All of these surfaces are the result of lathe tool handling......I do very little embellishment to my work.

Of course, there is some variance in surfaces and detail grooves due to warping and sanding, but these things are very minimal because sanding was so insignificant to the overall surface quality.....so, to deny there was any variance at all would be misstating the facts.

ko
 
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Well, I turned a piece of dry Mesquite yesterday, and started sanding at 180. It is so strange to turn dry wood for me. I had to hook up the dust collector. I might have gotten away with starting with 220.... didn't want to spend the extra time. If I turned dry wood more, I probably would develop different techniques. I will keep trying Odie...

robo hippy
 

odie

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Well, I turned a piece of dry Mesquite yesterday, and started sanding at 180. It is so strange to turn dry wood for me. I had to hook up the dust collector. I might have gotten away with starting with 220.... didn't want to spend the extra time. If I turned dry wood more, I probably would develop different techniques. I will keep trying Odie...

robo hippy

You know, Robo.......Just because I started sanding at 600 one time, doesn't mean I can repeat it whenever I want.......matter of fact, I haven't done it since.

I'd speculate that my overall average for starting sanding is 220, and 180 quite a bit. I've only started at 400 a handful of times (once per year, maybe....?). You are right that it's better to start one grit lower than you think you might get away with.....that's generally what I do, too. It's really irritating to go several grits and have to back pedal! :mad: I may not ever start at 600 again, for this very reason. I did it the other day just to see if I could do it, but it's not something I figure I'll do very often......or, ever again! :D

ko
 

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Well, it seems to me that there are two parts to the 600 grit issue. One is how smooth is the surface. The other is how pleasing is the overall contour of the surface that you just cut. Much of the sanding using coarse grits is directed at blending minor miss-matches between successive cuts and correcting minor errors in perceived shape. If you lower your standards enough on the latter issue, you probably would not need to sand at all. :eek:
 

Bill Boehme

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Well, it seems to me that there are two parts to the 600 grit issue. One is how smooth is the surface. The other is how pleasing is the overall contour of the surface that you just cut. Much of the sanding using coarse grits is directed at blending minor miss-matches between successive cuts and correcting minor errors in perceived shape. If you lower your standards enough on the latter issue, you probably would not need to sand at all. :eek:

I agree with your perspective. I think that most of the sanding that I do is to refine the curvature of a surface where I blend together areas that don't perfectly flow together. I took a class with Stuart Batty several years ago and was in awe of his skill in creating a perfectly clean flowing surface in one fell swoop.
 
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Watching Stuart get smooth even curves while holding the gouge so far away from his body astounds me. Practice does make you better, or like my Wing Chung teacher said, 10,000 more times. But teacher, that is what you said last time. Well then, 10,000 more times. Perhaps the most difficult part of getting smooth even lines, well, other than being able to see them first, is being able to move with your tools. This is what I was trying to get across in my Bowl Turning Ergonomics clip, or as Kathleen Duncan, AAW Board member says, Dancing With the Lathe. I am so stealing that line for teaching...... Of course, I will say who I stole it from...

robo hippy
 
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Starting with 600 grit is super achievement and ok to "toot your own horn" But why bother sanding at all? A good finisher fully subjugates the grain raising proclivities and after dampening the surface, 240 or maybe 320 is in order for even dense hard woods. Surly you don't let the piece go out only to have the grain raise after a salad bowl gets washed or a decorative piece lives through several seasons of humidity change.
 

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Starting with 600 grit is super achievement and ok to "toot your own horn" But why bother sanding at all? A good finisher fully subjugates the grain raising proclivities and after dampening the surface, 240 or maybe 320 is in order for even dense hard woods. Surly you don't let the piece go out only to have the grain raise after a salad bowl gets washed or a decorative piece lives through several seasons of humidity change.

Howdy idahohay........

240 or 320!......really? That does seem a little bit aggressive for a surface that's just been sanded to 600.....but, you never know, I guess. Since I began communicating with other turners, I've heard a lot of opinions that were completely new to me.

I don't leave the surface untouched after applying my preferred Danish Oil Natural.......Nearly every one of my bowls are then are gone over with 0000 steel wool prior to buffing and waxing. I'm satisfied with the results I'm getting with this procedure.

Suppose it's possible that humidity cycles in different climates could raise grain, but I'm not aware of any problems with that......After having observed some of my Mom's bowls over about the past 25, or so years, I'm not seeing it. She lives in Nevada, and I'm in Montana. I am seeing some overall warping taking place. This is particularly noticeable with some of the segmented turnings I was doing back then. The finish quality seems to be holding up well, and I don't think she has ever put any household waxes on them. The warping/shrinkage problem there is uneven movement between dissimilar species of woods causing some separating and shifting between glue lines. I was using the same Danish oil back then (and Titebond glue II, I think).....but, my techniques of making it all work better to my satisfaction has improved considerably over the years.

My bowls are spread out over the lower 48 pretty diversly, and I believe some of my bowls are in Japan and EU. I don't have a chance to observe how weather effects any of them in significant changes of climate......have never heard a word from anyone who has them who has had any problems.

ko
 
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Thanks for the reply, I've since followed the links to your website and sure liked your work and when you post something, I'll be listening.
 
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Hi Odie

Good for you! One thing that immediately sprung to mind though, when reading of your acheivement was something I read of the late Bert Marsh (and there are few better turners than Bert, by all accounts!) No matter the quality of his cut or the finish from the tool, he always started sanding at 80g and worked religeously through the grits to 600g or so. I forget the exact detail of why but Bert was an educated man in the field of all things wood, and believed that this was the best way to get the very best finish.

I must take another look at his book and see if I can get more info on this for you. His book is well worth a read if you manage to find a copy by the way!

All the best

Richard
 

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Hi Odie

Good for you! One thing that immediately sprung to mind though, when reading of your acheivement was something I read of the late Bert Marsh (and there are few better turners than Bert, by all accounts!) No matter the quality of his cut or the finish from the tool, he always started sanding at 80g and worked religeously through the grits to 600g or so. I forget the exact detail of why but Bert was an educated man in the field of all things wood, and believed that this was the best way to get the very best finish.

I must take another look at his book and see if I can get more info on this for you. His book is well worth a read if you manage to find a copy by the way!

All the best

Richard

Hello Richard........

I don't know of Bert Marsh, but I can tell you this.......sanding on a bowl, where it's alternating between long grain and end grain will remove the long grain faster than the end grain. Other things like spalting and sources of softer wood like what's found between the long grain annular rings of ash wood will also be removed faster. Because of these things, it causes big problems with mating intersections between surfaces, and detail grooves, specifically because the bowl is not as geometrically perfectly circular. Because of this, the least amount of sanding is the more desirable, and the way to accomplish that is to have a tool finish that requires as little sanding as possible. A tool finish, good, or not so good, will be more geometrically perfect than a sanded surface......so, for my kind of turning, it is absolutely imperative to make that tool finish as perfectly executed as possible.

ko
 

hockenbery

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Kelly,
Bert Marsh passed away a few years ago.
You can see some of his work on the Tomas Riley gallery web pages.
The curves Bert achieved on bowls are about the best we will ever see.

http://www.rileygalleries.com/artist/a201812.html

I copied a few photos from the Ridley gallery for those who might not be able to visit.

IMHO
THE CURVE is the most important element of a woodturning.
Surface quality is 2nd
Wall thickness is third

A marvelous finish on a poor curve can never make a good piece.
A poor finish on a great curve does the piece a dis-service but you still have a good piece


Al
 

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odie

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Kelly,

Bert Marsh passed away a few years ago.
You can see some of his work on the Tomas Riley gallery web pages.
The curves Bert achieved on bowls are about the best we will ever see.

I copied a few photos from the Ridley gallery for those who might not be to visit.

Enjoy
Al

No question that a turner can have nice turnings with excessive sanding....

It all depends on how important the goal of geometric perfection is, and the things that can be accomplished with it. My turning requires it, Bert Marsh's does not.

ko
 

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No question that a turner can have nice turnings with excessive sanding.... It all depends on how important the goal of geometric perfection is, and the things that can be accomplished with it. My turning requires it, Bert Marsh's does not. ko

Kind of where we disagree. You should concentrate on what is important to you.

To me the curve and use of wood grain set the great pieces apart from the mundane.
I concentrate on the curves and manipulating the wood grain.

A great finish is needed too!

The even wall thickness(geometric perfectionist). Is for me a nice to have.

One of the greatest compliments I have gotten was a lady yelling I want that one from 30 feet away.
It was a nice hollow form but she had no idea about the finish or the weight or even if it was hollow.
Didn't know the price either. The shape sold it.

Al
 
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My turning requires it, Bert Marsh's does not. ko

I don't understand this one Odie. The shape and form is critical for visual appeal, no matter what you make, and both of you do that in your work.

For sanding, use of 80 grit is some times necessary, and some times not. If you are doing any detail work on the piece, then you can't use 80 grit. As my turning technique improves, I find I need 80 grit less often. Main reason is that some times, it is easier to sand out my tool marks than it is to sand out the 80 grit scratches. Since I turn dried warped bowls, they do oxidize, and I need to sand through to the lighter colors and avoid splotches. Some times it is faster to use the 80 grit. I prefer 100 grit to 80 as it cuts almost as fast but not as deep, and 120 easily removes those scratch marks.

robo hippy
 
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Every bowl / platter I make, I always keep considering what part of the country/world it might go to, and the environmental differences
One thing I have found, it's hotter than Hades here in summertime, mid 120 degree temps and 10% humidity are not that uncommon.
Things tend to dry out more here, than say, California, or Boston. I have several Spalted bowls sitting in New York, and customer reports no changes in form at all.
I think going from a cooler, more damper climate, to a drier climate, then you might see some warpage/movement in shape/form.

As for sanding, best I've accomplished is starting @320, so well done :)
as said by most above, the rougher grits have mainly been used to clean/merge different surfaces together, by feel , and not by eye ;)


Suppose it's possible that humidity cycles in different climates could raise grain, but I'm not aware of any problems with that......After having observed some of my Mom's bowls over about the past 25, or so years, I'm not seeing it. She lives in Nevada, and I'm in Montana. I am seeing some overall warping taking place. This is particularly noticeable with some of the segmented turnings I was doing back then. The finish quality seems to be holding up well, and I don't think she has ever put any household waxes on them.

ko
 

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Thanks Jerry........:D

Al.....I am pursuing my own goals in woodturning. It's ok if you have other goals in mind. This is only a discussion.

For Robo and Al......perhaps you are not acquainted with the advantages of having surfaces as close to geometric perfection as possible. I tried to explain this, but maybe I'll put it in another way. It has nothing to do with the curves and form......sanding will not destroy form or curves to the point where it's an obvious distraction to the eye......unless it's just way too excessive.

If you have two surfaces that meet at a corner, the further from a perfect circle the mating surfaces intersect, the more apparent it will be.....because any variation in the geometry will cause the two surfaces to not intersect at exactly the same point throughout the circumference of the intersection......there will be places where the "corner" doesn't match perfectly. This is very visible to the observer, so the only thing that can remedy the problem, is to round over the corner equally throughout the circumference of the intersection.

A perfect corner is visually aesthetic to the eye, and perfect corners can only be had by perfect geometry.

If a surface is unevenly sanded, due to sanding alternating long grain and end grain.....and, a turner wishes to use detail groove(s) on that surface, then the detail will not be visually appealing to the observer if the depth and width of the groove is uneven throughout the entire circle on which it exists. The detail groove will look more perfect to the eye, and therefore more visually appealing to the observer, if the underlying surface is more perfect in it's geometrical shape. The only way to minimize distortion, is to minimize the sanding.

Both of these things become more visually appealing to the eye, the more perfect the underlying geometry is.

The only way to make it happen is a very sharp tool, a steady hand, and some learned skills in doing it. If Jerry is starting sanding at 320, then his resulting corners and detail grooves will likely look sharp and cleanly done......the observer will notice this, whether he conscious of the inspiration, or not. The result will be aesthetic appeal.

Of course, all of this applies to my style of turning, and there are other turners who do very well with sanding more than I can except for my own work.

Here's a couple of quick examples:

Photo 1 is a zebrawood bowl that has an intersecting corner of two surfaces just outside of the foot. This is a difficult intersecting edge, because the angle (cross section) of the corner is very obtuse. The closer to 90° the easier it gets, but this one is more like 150°. For such an obtuse angle, the only way the intersection will be a crisp sharp corner, is if the geometry is as perfect as possible.

Photo 2 is a Brazil cherry bowl with multiple detail grooves. The grooves pass through long grain and end grain. Any variance in the geometry caused by sanding will in turn cause the detail grooves to be deeper on the end grain, and shallower on the long grain. The width of the detail grooves will also vary throughout the circumference of the cut. The only way to minimize this, it to minimize sanding. I suspect most turners avoid detail grooves, because detail grooves that visually vary just plain look bad. Detail grooves that are cleanly cut, and have minimal variation look pleasing and aesthetic.

ko
 

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Dennis J Gooding

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Not to make a big issue of this, but one can sand and retain fine detail with a bit of planning in many cases. For example, I generally sand the general area before adding details such as fine beads or grooves. Corners and cusps can be touched up with 600 grit tool work after sanding.

Dennis
 
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Odie, are you by any chance an engineer? Seeking such perfection - which by the way is admirable - in a material as imperfect as wood seems to me to be setting an almost impossible task for yourself. I think we should all strive to be the best that we can be, which you are certainly doing here, but don't be too hard on yourself if it doesn't happen everytime, in this instance it probably can be blamed on the timber!!

All the best

Richard
 

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Odie, are you by any chance an engineer? Seeking such perfection - which by the way is admirable - in a material as imperfect as wood seems to me to be setting an almost impossible task for yourself. I think we should all strive to be the best that we can be, which you are certainly doing here, but don't be too hard on yourself if it doesn't happen everytime, in this instance it probably can be blamed on the timber!!

All the best

Richard

Good afternoon Richard!

(Actually, it's early in the morning here, but it's in the afternoon for you!.....I'm just about to leave for work today.)

No, my formal training is an A&P aircraft technician, but I never really used it......(long story, don't ask!)

I guess you can say that I am striving for perfection, but armed with the realization, and acceptance that I know it's not possible to attain. For me, the effort is worth it, because it's opened doors that I didn't know were there. Yes, you are certainly correct that wood is an imperfect material, and the expectations of perfection is unrealistic.

Good day.

ko
 
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I avoid details, mostly because I like plain and simple. I can remember Mike Mahoney doing a walnut platter when the AAW Symposium was in Portland. He was doing the inside wall, and explaining why he left a raised detail part way up/down the wall, and he was commenting that it drew the eye down into the bowl. As he was explaining that, I was thinking, 'you had a nice curve going there, and then you went and put a speed bump on it'. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I would think the most difficult part about that kind of detail line that you have on that Jatoba/Brazilian Cherry bowl is getting the form perfectly round. I can get pretty close with gouges, but have to use a shear scrape to get it nearly perfect. Even being out 1/32 would leave a noticeable variance.

robo hippy
 
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Maybe this is a repeat of what Dennis is saying. There have been times that I have sanded and then went back with a freshly sharpened gouge to true-up the piece/surface (and then maybe light sanding) before adding detail groves. I probably do this more when finishing the foot, but also have done this with the rim and outer surface of bowls.
 

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I avoid details, mostly because I like plain and simple. I can remember Mike Mahoney doing a walnut platter when the AAW Symposium was in Portland. He was doing the inside wall, and explaining why he left a raised detail part way up/down the wall, and he was commenting that it drew the eye down into the bowl. As he was explaining that, I was thinking, 'you had a nice curve going there, and then you went and put a speed bump on it'. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I would think the most difficult part about that kind of detail line that you have on that Jatoba/Brazilian Cherry bowl is getting the form perfectly round. I can get pretty close with gouges, but have to use a shear scrape to get it nearly perfect. Even being out 1/32 would leave a noticeable variance.

robo hippy

Hello Robo........

Yes.....brings to mind the old saying that "art is in the eye of the beholder'.....true on both accounts. I consider myself to be an admirer of all forms and styles of woodturning, as long as it's done well, or in some cases, extremely creative and unique ideas, even if they aren't done as well. Just because I don't choose to do it all, doesn't mean I can't appreciate a diverse representation of the craft. ;)

Just so happens, I take notes and draw diagrams of every bowl I make. This information is kept in a very old fashioned 4x6 index card file. That Jatoba/Brazilian cherry bowl has 7 detail grooves, and the raised platform where they were cut, had a total run-out of .006" throughout the circumference. I don't remember at what grit I started sanding that surface with, but with that small of a run-out, it was probably 320, or better. I use a machinist's dial indicator to measure the run-out. My rule of thumb for the maximum allowable run-out is .025", which is just shy of your 1/32" reference. If it's over .025", then I won't even attempt a detail groove, because I know it's a losing proposition. Even with those limitations, I've done some that I've regretted I ever tried! I have a specially ground spear point scraper I use to cut detail grooves on questionable surfaces.....it has a very acute angle of the point. That way I can go deeper without varying the width as much.....due to out-of-round dimensional limitations. It does help, but not a "silver bullet". The best thing to remember is: .....if there is any doubt, don't do it! :p

ko
 
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Bill Boehme

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Hello Robo........

Yes.....brings to mind the old saying that "art is in the eye of the beholder'....

Maybe only a couple hours old. :rolleyes: "Beauty" is in the eye of the beholder ... "art" is in the pocketbook of the buyer. (OK, so I made that one up, so we're even.). :D
 
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Good one.... Love those people with more dollars than sense.... As a former concrete man (Hippy, you are way to dang fussy to do concrete work! Well, thank you!), plus or minus 1/8 inch was pretty good. Can't read hundredths, or thousandths either.... Perhaps an advantage with my warped bowls. You can't notice that much. I have found it interesting that end grain sections of a 1/4 inch thick bowl will be noticeably thicker if you stop to look, which most don't....

robo hippy
 
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Hello Robo........

Yes.....brings to mind the old saying that "art is in the eye of the beholder'.....true on both accounts. I consider myself to be an admirer of all forms and styles of woodturning, as long as it's done well, or in some cases, extremely creative and unique ideas, even if they aren't done as well. Just because I don't choose to do it all, doesn't mean I can't appreciate a diverse representation of the craft. ;)

Just so happens, I take notes and draw diagrams of every bowl I make. This information is kept in a very old fashioned 4x6 index card file. That Jatoba/Brazilian cherry bowl has 7 detail grooves, and the raised platform where they were cut, had a total run-out of .006" throughout the circumference. I don't remember at what grit I started sanding that surface with, but with that small of a run-out, it was probably 320, or better. I use a machinist's dial indicator to measure the run-out. My rule of thumb for the maximum allowable run-out is .025", which is just shy of your 1/32" reference. If it's over .025", then I won't even attempt a detail groove, because I know it's a losing proposition. Even with those limitations, I've done some that I've regretted I ever tried! I have a specially ground spear point scraper I use to cut detail grooves on questionable surfaces.....it has a very acute angle of the point. That way I can go deeper without varying the width as much.....due to out-of-round dimensional limitations. It does help, but not a "silver bullet". The best thing to remember is: .....if there is any doubt, don't do it! :p

ko

Kelly, With all due respects we are turning wood and not metal. Wood moves considerably more than metal and not at the same rate all around the circumference. So what is the point to measure runout as we would a bering or shaft? Just curious.
 

odie

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Kelly, With all due respects we are turning wood and not metal. Wood moves considerably more than metal and not at the same rate all around the circumference. So what is the point to measure runout as we would a bering or shaft? Just curious.

Hiya, Gerald.......

The answer is simple......measuring run-out gives me an idea of how well a detail groove will work aesthetically......or, not! :D

You can't tell by eye, the difference between .010" and .020" run-out.......but, by knowing this information, it makes a big difference in how a detail groove will look on either of these surfaces......It's just information by which a decision can be made with less guess work needed to come to an informed conclusion.

ko
 

Bill Boehme

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.....measuring run-out gives me an idea of how well a detail groove will work aesthetically......or, not! :D

You can't tell by eye, the difference between .010" and .020" run-out.......but, by knowing this information, it makes a big difference in how a detail groove will look on either of these surfaces ...

Groovy, man. :rolleyes:

If you're wondering if I have insomnia ... I just got home from a hectic trip. Everything that could go wrong ... did ... including tripping over a possum and falling on my iPad and getting my right hand full of sharp glass slivers. As an aside, Gorilla tape is the best thing for removing tiny slivers of glass, but I also had to do some Xacto knife surgery to dig some of the bigger pieces out. Now I need to get three hours of sleep so that I will be all bright eyed and bushy tailed for an all day class with Jimmy Clewes.

image.jpg
 

hockenbery

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Groovy, man. :rolleyes: If you're wondering if I have insomnia ... I just got home from a hectic trip. Everything that could go wrong ... did ... including tripping over a possum and falling on my iPad and getting my right hand full of sharp glass slivers. As an aside, Gorilla tape is the best thing for removing tiny slivers of glass, but I also had to do some Xacto knife surgery to dig some of the bigger pieces out. Now I need to get three hours of sleep so that I will be all bright eyed and bushy tailed for an all day class with Jimmy Clewes. <img src="http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8360"/>

Hope you look better than the possum. :)

Jimmy is a terrific teacher and a class guy.

You will learn a lot and have fun at it too.

Travel safely!

Al
 
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Groovy, man. :rolleyes:

If you're wondering if I have insomnia ... I just got home from a hectic trip. Everything that could go wrong ... did ... including tripping over a possum and falling on my iPad and getting my right hand full of sharp glass slivers. As an aside, Gorilla tape is the best thing for removing tiny slivers of glass, but I also had to do some Xacto knife surgery to dig some of the bigger pieces out. Now I need to get three hours of sleep so that I will be all bright eyed and bushy tailed for an all day class with Jimmy Clewes.

View attachment 8360

Bill-another critter story . 2 days ago . My builder who has remodeled some of my house was redoing one of my 3 sheds. The outsides have the OSB (? wafer like board) that is rotting. One shed has Michigan State U wood in it for turning. I was opening that door to show him the inside when there was a hell of a racket. Jack peered in and asked for a flashlite.( I had had a cat door on the side and inside made a bed for my old indoor/outdoor cat in case someone chased her-she could get away-she's been dead for 8-9 years) . We didn't see mom, but they definitely weren't cats. See photo of 4 raccoon kittens.Not a wanted varmint.

DSCN1428 (640x360).jpgDSCN1430 (640x360).jpg
 

Bill Boehme

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Bill-another critter story . 2 days ago . My builder who has remodeled some of my house was redoing one of my 3 sheds. The outsides have the OSB (? wafer like board) that is rotting. One shed has Michigan State U wood in it for turning. I was opening that door to show him the inside when there was a hell of a racket. Jack peered in and asked for a flashlite.( I had had a cat door on the side and inside made a bed for my old indoor/outdoor cat in case someone chased her-she could get away-she's been dead for 8-9 years) . We didn't see mom, but they definitely weren't cats. See photo of 4 raccoon kittens.Not a wanted varmint.

The previous day I caught a racoon. I might be wasting my time trapping these critters since the location is in the middle of a rural farming and ranching area and the woods are full of things that like cat food. I wish that I could find an automatic varmint-proof feeder that would only dispensed food in the early part of the day and empty the bowl into a container before dark. There are livestock feeders,deer feeders, and catfish feeders, but none of them do a good job when it comes to varmints.
 
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I thin them out too

The previous day I caught a racoon. I might be wasting my time trapping these critters since the location is in the middle of a rural farming and ranching area and the woods are full of things that like cat food. I wish that I could find an automatic varmint-proof feeder that would only dispensed food in the early part of the day and empty the bowl into a container before dark. There are livestock feeders,deer feeders, and catfish feeders, but none of them do a good job when it comes to varmints.



Bill,

I live in a very similar location and keep a live trap handy so that when cat food consumption gets too high I trap a few possums and coons and relocate them to a river bed about ten miles away and not close to human habitation. I should feed in the morning and remove the food at night. Now you have me thinking about a solenoid and timer to close a lid on a cat feeder at night. Maybe a few second buzzer to shoo critters away and then a lid closes. There is a need, you ought to fill it!

Hu

PS: I suppose it would break Odie's heart to tell him I have only turned a few dozen pieces and already achieved a vessel that sanding on was purely gratuitous long ago. Must be something to learning from the herd!;)
 

Bill Boehme

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Hu, I have a catfish feeder that I have been thinking about modifying. Currently it launches the pellets up to a hundred feet or so ... not a great way to feed the cat. If I remove that part of the dispenser and just use the part that meters out the food, it might work. Raccoons are smart though ... I wouldn't be too surprised if they could reprogram the control electronics to dispense food at night.

I have tried motion sensors connected to floodlights. The raccoons left a note thanking me for thinking of their convenience. I'm not sure that any horn or siren would be any more effective.
 
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