Phyrography Machine Opinions

[Michael Poorman]

I wanted to get into hot wire pyrography and away from the soldering iron type units. I built a pyrography controller from a car charger and it worked great! Then the transformer fried Of course I was in the middle of a project on a deadline too. Anyways, I'd heard good thing about the Razor Tip SS-D10 and went for it. Well, I was hoping for a unit that had the same max heat output as my home brew contraption, but it just doesn't. I'm now looking at returning the RazorTip and either buying a BurnMaster Hawk or building a new (and improved of course) unit myself.

Thoughts, Opinions? I'd greatly appreciate your input. Thanks!

 

[Dwight R Rutherford]

A group of members in my club used Graham Priddle's tutorial to build copies of his "wood vaporizer" they work very well. Check it out http://www.woodturnersresource.com/extras/projects/priddle/WoodBurner.html

 

[Michael Poorman]

Thanks Dwight, that's how I made mine. I dunno what went wrong. Maybe my charger had a bad transformer from the onset... I really enjoyed using it while it worked...

 

[Bill Boehme]

Have you considered the Detail Master? When I took a class from Andi Wolfe several years ago that is what she recommended so I bought the Excalibre model for the class and have been very pleased with it. Detail Master has a very large assortment of tips available.

 

[Michael Poorman]

I had looked into the Detail Master, but that price tag, dang! I don't doubt it's a great tool though and thank you for the suggestion! Bill, what kind of pyrography to you do? I'm mainly interested in heavy burning/texturing.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I had looked into the Detail Master, but that price tag, dang! I don't doubt it's a great tool though and thank you for the suggestion! Bill, what kind of pyrography to you do? I'm mainly interested in heavy burning/texturing.

See the image at the top of this page in my Photo Gallery.

 

[Michael Poorman]

Nicely done Bill! I like the "Nut Case" too

 

[Dale Miner]

I too built a machine using a 2/10/50 boost charger (Schauer?). It has been going for a few years now. The 10 amp range is the range that works best. The charger has an amp meter and usually, about 5.5 to 8 amps is what it takes to go from light burning to annihilate using nichrome wires. I feed the charger with a Variac and can make very small adjussments to the output amperage from zero up. Other folk feed the charger with lighting dimmers. It seems that for some, the dimmer method does not allow for sensative control or the ability to reduce the output low enough for fine work. I have heard of some people using a stand alone router speed control. Chargers with electronic controls should be avoided for conversion.

Molly Winton does a lot of heavy branding and texturing with pyro. During a demo at the OVWG symposium a few years back, she used a Burnmaster. She preferred it over other commercial machines for the capacity of the machine as well as other factors.

Cynthia Gibson does more delicate pyro embelishments and uses a Razortip. I attended her demo at the OVWG symposium in 2013. I don't recall a discussion of the machines capacity during the demo. If memory serves correct, she favored the Razortip for the sensitivity of the controls for fine adjustment of the output and for the selection of pens. I bought a Razortip for my better half, and the controls of the machine do allow for discreet changes in the output. The machine seems to have a decent capacity, but we have not used it for branding as the charger based unit is set up for that.

My suggestion for a commercial machine for the work that you describe would be the Burnmaster, although a charger based unit will very likely have more capacity.

 

[Owen Lowe]

I had looked into the Detail Master, but that price tag, dang! I don't doubt it's a great tool though and thank you for the suggestion! Bill, what kind of pyrography to you do? I'm mainly interested in heavy burning/texturing.

After my own homebuilt burner sizzled and let out the magic smoke, I bought a Burnmaster. It’ll glow the tips but I usually use it at about 1/3 power on the dial. The Detail Master handpieces and tips work just fine with the Burnmaster and are what I prefer for comfort in my hand. The Burnmaster is a quality unit that hasn’t caused a bit of trouble.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

I have only used one manufactures product.....they are just too expensive to buy 3 or 4 different brands to see what works best, so most people like what they bought......hard to compare if you only have used one vendors

 

[Donna Banfield]

I have a Burnmaster Eagle, dual port. I have also used the Colwood Cub (my first unit), the Razortip, and an Optima burner.

I took a workshop with Cynthia Gibson, and with a pyrographer, Jessie O'Brien, and had the opportunity to compare. Of all those I mentioned, the Burnmaster generates the highest heat. It also has a higher heat in the starting range, too. So for example, if the same pen is being used in the Burnmaster, Razortip and Optima at a heat setting of '4', the Burnmaster unit will make a faster, darker and deeper burn, far quicker than the other two.

Of course, none of the commercially made units will brand like a Priddle Vaporizer, and if that's the only thing you wish to do, then that may be the route for you. Like it was mentioned in a previous post, Cynthia's style is to use a very low heat to create patterns. Molly Winton's work is closer to 'branding' her signature patterns.

I hope this helps.

 

[odie]

I have the Detail Master Sabre unit, and the handpieces always get too hot for my hand for comfortable use. I've wrapped the handles with extra insulating material, and that's better, but still gets too hot for me. I can't imagine having to use this unit everyday.

I don't use the Detail Master unit very much.....just for special tribute bowls to celebrate the birth of children to friends of mine.

ooc

 

[Bill Boehme]

When I took the class with Andi Wolfe, she provided each student with sleeves for the Detail Master pens that worked very well. The sleeves were expandable plastic mesh that allowed air circulation between the aluminum pen body and your hand. That worked quite well, but I don't know where to find more of that stuff. I also have used nitrile "O" rings in the grooves of the pen. They work well, but not quite as well as the expandable plastic mesh stuff. I am starting on a Navajo Wedding Basket, so I will have some long sessions with the burner. Hope that I maintain my sanity with all that tedious detail work.

BTS, the Detail Master Excalibre is 130 watts. I rarely use a setting above about 3 on the control that goes to 10. I suspect that anything greater than about 6 is liable to tourch the wood.

 

[odie]

When I took the class with Andi Wolfe, she provided each student with sleeves for the Detail Master pens that worked very well. The sleeves were expandable plastic mesh that allowed air circulation between the aluminum pen body and your hand. That worked quite well, but I don't know where to find more of that stuff. I also have used nitrile "O" rings in the grooves of the pen. They work well, but not quite as well as the expandable plastic mesh stuff. I am starting on a Navajo Wedding Basket, so I will have some long sessions with the burner. Hope that I maintain my sanity with all that tedious detail work.

BTS, the Detail Master Excalibre is 130 watts. I rarely use a setting above about 3 on the control that goes to 10. I suspect that anything greater than about 6 is liable to tourch the wood.

One thing about it......doing lettering is probably going to require a higher heat setting for quick flowing lines. This gives me an idea, and I've just decided to try a modification.......if it works out, I'll let everyone know.........

ooc

 

[Charlie Knighton]

so, is one brand endorsed for the 2 styles of pyro???????????? detail work and branding.......or is it just the heat settings for all vendors???????

I would be interested with opinions espically if you have used multiple vendors....

 

[Pete Blair]

Pyrography Tool?

I have both the Burnmaster and the Razor tip. I do like each for different jobs, the Burnmaster can vaporize wood and the Razortip is nicer for finer lines. BUT, and in my opinion a big but is the above is mostly a result of the pens. If I was to do it all over again I would buy a Dual Burnmaster and then a couple of pens from Razortip. My Burnmaster pens are a little more clunky. I do like to form my own burning tips and each system has this option but with the Razortip it means adding an pen.

 

[Bill Dalton]

I have the old combo BurnMaster love it. Micromotor and burner unit in one, they don't make them anymore. I had a dual razortip, but I didn't need two units. Loved both. I burn the rim of a lot of my bowls and use a "paddle" tip. The heat is turned up and using a pen more than 10 min. at a time will leave you with blisters. To help this I purchase phenolic tubes that slip over the pens and dill holes over the vent holes in the pens I use. I can usually burn for 20 to 30 minutes this way on high heat, I haven't found this method to degrade my pens either which you have to watch, as long term high heat can melt the insulation holding the wires in place...well I've read that, not personal experience...yea right.

 

[John Altberg]

I feed the charger with a Variac and can make very small adjussments to the output amperage from zero up. Other folk feed the charger with lighting dimmers. It seems that for some, the dimmer method does not allow for sensative control or the ability to reduce the output low enough for fine work. I have heard of some people using a stand alone router speed control. Chargers with electronic controls should be avoided for conversion.

Dale:

Could you give some detail about the Variac that you use? This very problem of the dimmer switch not providing incremental control at the low end has held me back form building one of these units.

Thanks,

John

 

[Bill Boehme]

One thing about it......doing lettering is probably going to require a higher heat setting for quick flowing lines. This gives me an idea, and I've just decided to try a modification.......if it works out, I'll let everyone know.........

ooc

There is a special tip for writing that is small, but not pointed. It has a rounded end so that it doesn't have as much tendency to dig into the wood. It is a good idea to use 1500 grit silicon carbide paper to polish the tip. Here are a few other recommendations that Andi had for best results:

• 
  [*=1]Keep the pen vertical for best results
  [*=1]Use very light pressure
  [*=1]The heat setting varies from one species of wood to another, but for the Excalibre it seems to work best somewhere in the 4 to 5 range. The heat setting is fairly critical so practice on scraps until the right setting is found
  [*=1]Sand the writing area very smooth. Trying to write on rough sanded wood is much harder to get smooth lines
  [*=1]Keep the pen moving and use a constant speed for all letters. This is easy to say and tough to do so practice practice practice practice and practice some more.
  [*=1]Dont try to "brand" the wood when writing. The results ought to look something like writing with a brown pen
  [*=1]Wood that has a smooth uniform texture works best. Wood that has a strong difference in hardness between early and late wood will be very difficult to write on because the tip will try to follow the grain lines. Keep the pressure feather light and make sure the pen is vertical.

so, is one brand endorsed for the 2 styles of pyro???????????? detail work and branding.......or is it just the heat settings for all vendors???????.....

Can you explain what you mean by the two styles of pyro? I don't know anything about that. I figured that everybody that has been doing much pyro has somewhat their own "style" if it means how to do burning. I don't know whether any pro turner "endorses" burners (meaning gets money to promote a product) -- it's more like whatever you use is your favorite and by extension, the best.

To answer your second question, it's 100% the pen. The box just provides the low voltage current for the pen. Most, if not all pens can be used with other brand burners. Burners that can provide more current cost more bucks. The cheapest burners sometimes can't provide enough current to keep the tip hot. To use a different brand tip with a burner will require a plug adapter, but they are readily available.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Dale:

Could you give some detail about the Variac that you use? This very problem of the dimmer switch not providing incremental control at the low end has held me back form building one of these units.

Thanks,

John

A Variac is a variable output voltage autotransformer. They are wonderful big heavy mechanical behemoths that were especially popular when vacuum tubes were king and transistors were lab curiousities not to be completely trusted. They are still available.

It might be that you just need a better dimmer control. The cheap ones are SCR controlled and have a limited range. There are electronic controllers available at higher cost that can give you the range of adjustment that you want -- after all, that is what all of the commercially available burners use to feed a step-down transformer.

 

[Dale Miner]

Dale:

Could you give some detail about the Variac that you use? This very problem of the dimmer switch not providing incremental control at the low end has held me back form building one of these units.

Thanks,

John

I picked mine up a a garage sale many years ago. I think they were/are also used in stage lighting.

If you do a search on ebay for variac, there are many available. The one I have has a 7.5 amp output with a max voltage of 140v. The charger pulls about two amps unless in the boost mode (not used for pyro) and then it pulls 7.5 amps.

A 500 va output is large enough to feed a charger based pyro unit. If a mistake is made and the charger is in the wrong range when turned on and the power drawn by the charger exceeds 500va, the variac is fuse protected. I inadvertently had the range switch set for 50 amp/boost mode when turning the variac on. The nichrome wire resembled a flash bulb, but no damage or fuse blowing occurred to the variac. It was one of my favorite wires. :-(

Here is a pic of what they look like.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

Can you explain what you mean by the two styles of pyro?

Bill.....well when I think of styles I think of the Gibson's detail work....its very fine lines and the other style is Molly Winton's style....more branding...ie dark lines......I guess I need to add your style sort of fine detail with color.................


I see some pyro work at symposium, but not as much as the carving....sometimes there is more cut away than material left

 

[pat miller]

We have a Priddle Vaporizer, a Burnmaster Hawk and Colwood Cub. I bought the Burnmaster first as it had a 130 watt output and I was looking for a lot of heat to texture wood. It does a decent job but like others have mentioned the hand piece gets too hot to hold comfortably after 10 minutes or so and I have cooked several hand pieces. Karen's work is much more delicate and detailed and the Hawk will work but the heat control at the low end tends to not be sensitive enough. We recently purchased the Cub which suits her needs well providing more precise temperature control on the low end. On the other hand am looking to scorch some acreage so I built the Vaporizer per Graeme's instructions. I have many hours on it and it still works fine. I make my own tips from 14 to 20ga nichrome wire. I also have made my own handle/tip holder which is good for much longer burning sessions. For seriously long days of burning Kiwi Robbie Graham wrote an excellent article awhile back on an active air cooled burning pen but I am usually ready for a break before the equipment gets to hot to handle.

 

[Bill Boehme]

...... but I am usually ready for a break before the equipment gets to hot to handle.

Isn't that the truth. The basket illusion bowl that I made a few years ago almost caused my eyeballs to,fall out of my head. After about 30 minutes I needed to take a break and let my eyes uncross and get back to normal for a while. The beautiful work of Jim Adkins at SWAT inspired me to try another one, but I'm not sure if my eyes will hold up because it will be about ten inches in diameter. Some other turners make wedding basket style platters much larger than that. My hat is off to those guys. Whatever price they sell them for isn't enough in my opinion.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

Isn't that the truth. The basket illusion bowl that I made a few years ago almost caused my eyeballs to,fall out of my head.

enjoyment takes many forms.....I have looked at a couple of those and all I can think of is a "quest"

 

[john lucas]

I can't answer the question about burners that do Branding. I simply don't to that or at least very limited. It would seem the higher heat or wattage is what's needed. I have the Optima and it seems like it's very good on the lower heat Pyro end.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I can't answer the question about burners that do Branding. I simply don't to that or at least very limited. It would seem the higher heat or wattage is what's needed. I have the Optima and it seems like it's very good on the lower heat Pyro end.

I have used a couple soldering iron type wood burning pens before getting one of the real burners, the Detail Master Excalibre. I also have one of the branding irons. The self contained soldering iron style woodburning pens are very difficult to control and the heat can't be adjusted except by adding something like a light dimmer. They also get very hot. Branding irons just don't produce good results consistently.

I wasn't very enthused about woodburning before getting the Detail Master. I'm still not a pyromaniac, but at least I feel reasonably confident of the results with a real burner. Even though my burner is rated at 130 watts, that is far too much heat. I have the heat setting turned way down between 2 and 5 to produce clean burn lines. My reaction time isn't fast enough to use higher heat and it is always easier to go over a line to make it darker than it is to make a dark line lighter.

 

[odie]

One thing about it......doing lettering is probably going to require a higher heat setting for quick flowing lines. This gives me an idea, and I've just decided to try a modification.......if it works out, I'll let everyone know.........

ooc

Well, sometimes you just have to do it over and over again.....until you get it right!

My first attempt to solve the problem of holding a hot handle, was to wrap it in a foam insulation, and wrap the entire thing with cloth tape. This is better, but still will transfer heat with long term sessions. This modification was done a couple years ago, and is much better than the handle, as supplied by the manufacturer....but still is uncomfortably hot with a long session.

This morning, I just had to see if the idea I had the other day was any better, and since I wake up at 5am whether I go to work, or not........I went out to the shop before the chickens crowed! This second attempt was to wrap the aluminum handle in a small strip of rubber core between the pvc and the handle. The pvc has many holes to help trapped heated air escape. Since the rubber attachment between the handle and the pvc is only about 2" long, that's the only area where there is direct contact. and where heat transfer between the handle and the pvc is happening. I only used this for a few minutes, so far......but, it appears to be a better solution than my first attempt was. I suspect this will solve my problems, but if not, the rubber can be replaced with even smaller wedges between the pvc and the handle.....making for a smaller contact between the two........

As you can see, both of these modified handles are too big to fit the Detail Master's holder for hot tips on the side of the unit......so, I had to make my own holder out of pvc and a block of wood.......whatever works!

edit: This is just one more example of why this forum has been so important to me. If my attention had not been focused on a problem, as a result of reading in these threads.....I may not have done anything about it at all!

ooc

 

[Bill Boehme]

Shhow and tell ...

.... As you can see, both of these modified handles are too big to fit the Detail Master's holder for hot tips on the side of the unit......so, I had to make my own holder out of pvc and a block of wood.......whatever works! ...

Since you showed us your's, I'll show you mine. I originally put the nitrile "O" rings on mine and they helped some. When I took a class from Andi Wolfe, she gave everybody in the class the blue plastic sleeves shown below. The combination of the two works very well and as shown below, it fits in the holder. One minor annoyance is that the ends of the plastic sleeve want to splay out from the pen body and then catch on the lip of the holder. I've thought about wrapping string around it, but never got a "round tuit". When signing my name or writing, a low heat setting works much better than using high heat. If the heat is too high, the tip of the burner buries itself in the wood and results in a large burned spot. Since your burner is a different model than mine, the heat settings wont be the same.

 

[odie]

Since you showed us your's, I'll show you mine. I originally put the nitrile "O" rings on mine and they helped some. When I took a class from Andi Wolfe, she gave everybody in the class the blue plastic sleeves shown below. The combination of the two works very well and as shown below, it fits in the holder. One minor annoyance is that the ends of the plastic sleeve want to splay out from the pen body and then catch on the lip of the holder. I've thought about wrapping string around it, but never got a "round tuit". When signing my name or writing, a low heat setting works much better than using high heat. If the heat is too high, the tip of the burner buries itself in the wood and results in a large burned spot. Since your burner is a different model than mine, the heat settings wont be the same.

View attachment 7865

View attachment 7864

Well, there you go, Bill.....

I'd say that ought to work. Maybe some plastic electrical tape on the end would help with the splaying......or a wire tie....?

ooc

 

[Charlie Knighton]

those look like stainless steel ways Bill

 

[Bill Boehme]

those look like stainless steel ways Bill

Very observant, Charlie. Yes, they are -- and those stainless steel ways are attached to a Robust American Beauty lathe.

 

[Michael Poorman]

Wow,

This thread really got away from me. I didn't think so many people would give advice. Thanks! I returned the Razor Tip today because I have a Burnmaster Eagle on the way. The Razor Tip just didn't get hot enough, but as some have mentioned you can really dial in the temperature for tiny differences.

Bill, the blue netting is used for packaging. You can buy it at Uline.

 

[Breck Whitworth]

Michael I use the burn master Eagle with two ports and it has served me well. I make my own tips using nichrome wire mostly 20G for texture burning like molly winter does. I think you will enjoy the burn master. I have planned on making a graham priddle burner one day and have already bought a manuel charger for it but haven't really needed it for the texturing I have been doing. Best of luck Here are a couple examples of my work using homemade tips.

 

[Lloyd Butler]

The Burnmaster Eagle has a little recessed screw on the front that can be used to change the upper and lower limits a bit. I am not sure by how much as I have not played with it. For texturing, I normally go about 7 on the scale and the smoke will roll off the wood until the tip gets carboned up. I am still in the charcoal phase, so I am not sure how light it will drop to yet.

 

[odie]

Once again, this forum has prompted me into action!

Got to poking around on the Packard site and I see the Burnmaster pen by itself is available with an adaptor for the Detail Master unit. Since I've been an admirer of Molly Winton's basket weave pattern, I see there also is a kit to make her coil burners using the Burnmaster pen......Well, one thing led to another, and I got all three of them......along with the Woodturner's Apron being discussed in another thread!

I'll be able to compare the heat that radiates from both styles of pens soon....plus I have a use for Molly Winton's coil on some of my bowls.

I don't think the apron is going to replace my homemade cape, but I do see it being used for wet roughing and certain other applications.

Thanks to all who have contributed, and once again, inspiring me to make improvements to my turning.....

ooc

 

[Breck Whitworth]

Molly Winton's coiled burning tips

When I first started using pyrography. I contacted Molly by e-mail and learned quite a bit, one thing I learned from those who do this often is to buy a small roll of 20 Gauge nichrome wire and with a standard 12 penny nail and a pair of long nosed pliers you can make your own and many other tips. Its fun to experiment at a fraction of the cost. She uses 22 gauge for the smaller tips and 20 gauge for her larger coiled tips used for her basket weave patterns. I personally use 20G wire

This is where I get my wire though I am sure there are hundreds of businesses that sell it, 100 ft roll for about $16 I don't know if someone could ever use up this much wire so I got a smaller roll.

http://jacobs-online.biz/nichrome_wire.htm

 

[odie]

When I first started using pyrography. I contacted Molly by e-mail and learned quite a bit, one thing I learned from those who do this often is to buy a small roll of 20 Gauge nichrome wire and with a standard 12 penny nail and a pair of long nosed pliers you can make your own and many other tips. Its fun to experiment at a fraction of the cost. She uses 22 gauge for the smaller tips and 20 gauge for her larger coiled tips used for her basket weave patterns. I personally use 20G wire

This is where I get my wire though I am sure there are hundreds of businesses that sell it, 100 ft roll for about $16 I don't know if someone could ever use up this much wire so I got a smaller roll.

http://jacobs-online.biz/nichrome_wire.htm

Thanks, Breck.....

I will be receiving enough nichrome wire to make several of the coil burning tips in Molly Winton's kit. Thanks for posting this link, because that's the way to go, if I ever want to make more tips. Do these nichrome wire tips wear out......what kind of life expectancy do they have?.....forever?

ooc

 

[Breck Whitworth]

Odie
These tips wear out quite frequently, if you are impatient like me and don't want to wait a few seconds more between touches,and you keep the temp. high enough to speed up the process. Going slow it can take quite a while to go around a bowl twice. I usually get about 3 or 4 bowls or pieces before I see the effectiveness of the tip diminish. wiping the carbon off periodically while working a piece is very important I use an old leather glove some use a piece of heavy denim. I always clean my tips before use but regardless you will need to make new tips quicker than you think. At least from my experience.

 

[Pete Blair]

Molly

I took a day workshop with Molly. I now make most of my own tips as well. I have the head of a fine brass wire brush attached next to my Detailing station where I simply wipe the tips periodically.