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Segmented bowl - a bit of history for my boss

Mark Hepburn

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Hi All:

I posted here because it seems I get lot more helpful commentary than by posting in the Gallery. Did that the first time and no comments so far. Since the goal for me is improvement, I'd rather post here if it isn't a rules violation so I can get useful feedback. To the bowl...

My boss had an old house torn down here in South Louisiana. It was an old Acadian cottage - sort of a sharecropper's house - and was made from mostly cypress cut and milled from trees on site. Built sort of like a timber frame but different in some respects. Lots of square cut nails and actually some forged nails too.

Anyway, she called me when the house was knocked down and spent a good bit of time helping me load my pickup with a bunch of choice pieces, including some floor joists (this is pier construction) - that are 16' by 12" by 9"! They really built that house and it stood through every hurricane for the past 100+ years.

Sorry to be so long-winded. Point is, that as a thank you, I took some of the wood and made her a segmented bowl to have as a keepsake of that old house. The bowl is made of cypress, something that looks like the local 'mahogany", a piece of magnolia (ugly stuff, that in my opinion), and a bit of live oak.

So the bowl is intended to look rustic and has a shellac finish and you can see the grain texture apparent which is fine by me. I want it to look sort of like it is an old bowl. The nail holes are visible and if you see the last photo, I've embedded a couple of the forged nails in the bottom, and covered with Enviro-Tex. I realized after I made the bowl that I didn't brick-pattern the segments (again). I know the photos aren't the greatest but I'm working on that too.

I'd appreciate your comments.

Thanks,

Mark

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Aside from the point you made about the brick effect, I personally do not care for flatsawn grain in segmenting. For those who do not know "flatsawn" is the wide cathedral grain patterns when a log is sawn from the outside (makes the most of the log). This is why most of the flatwork I do is in cherry as the flatsawn grain is not as prominent. I usually prefer a smaller rim unless it adds a more decorative touch such as beads , not usually seen in segmented work.

I am not a segmenter . Most of the segmented work I see has the base inside the segmentation.This seems to lift the bottom. Your glue joints seem to be tight.

I guess form is one reason I have not done segmentation as yet. Much more planning is required and most of my turning is done from inspiration or needs of the blank itself. Don't let this get you down as the woods you worked with do not inspire in turning. I love cypress for outdoor use or clapboard siding and it ends there.
 

Bill Boehme

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Good workmanship. I suppose that my only comment about the design would be that the exterior curve can't decide which way to go. The is a very slight dip inward near the bottom then a slight curve outwards for most of the side and then a slight curve inwards followed by a slight curve outwards just below the rim. All this weaving around isn't doing anything towards creating a good overall shape. The foot and the rim are a bit overpowering in their thickness. Perhaps one thing that would help at the top and bottom is to have some crisp corners to define transitions. I don't like the step inside the rim -- it seems like something that was left unfinished. The undercutting on the rim shows very good work, but I think to work well the piece needs something to complement it -- a different body curvature that naturally carries over into the undercut area.
 
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Mark Hepburn

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Aside from the point you made about the brick effect, I personally do not care for flatsawn grain in segmenting. For those who do not know "flatsawn" is the wide cathedral grain patterns when a log is sawn from the outside (makes the most of the log). This is why most of the flatwork I do is in cherry as the flatsawn grain is not as prominent. I usually prefer a smaller rim unless it adds a more decorative touch such as beads , not usually seen in segmented work.

I am not a segmenter . Most of the segmented work I see has the base inside the segmentation.This seems to lift the bottom. Your glue joints seem to be tight.

I guess form is one reason I have not done segmentation as yet. Much more planning is required and most of my turning is done from inspiration or needs of the blank itself. Don't let this get you down as the woods you worked with do not inspire in turning. I love cypress for outdoor use or clapboard siding and it ends there.


Thanks Gerald. I really appreciate your thoughts. The base is actually inside the bottom, and is "floating inside the bowl to prevent cracking due to movement. I see your point about the flatsawn wood and it isn't for everyone. I thought about it but decided that, in this instance, it might work. Not so sure now looking at it, and I will defer to your judgment here.

The rim is substantial and I guess lacking a bit of grace as a result. But I've got a lot more material and plenty of time to practice :D

Thanks again!

By the way, a friend of mine lives in Brandon. I lived in Jackson for several years back in the late 70s - early 80s. Up on County Line road when it was a 2-laner and nothing there - it was just on the way to the reservoir. I hear things have changed since then. :)
 

Mark Hepburn

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Good workmanship. I suppose that my only comment about the design would be that the exterior curve can't decide which way to go. The is a very slight dip inward near the bottom then a slight curve outwards for most of the side and then a slight curve inwards followed by a slight curve outwards just below the rim. All this weaving around isn't doing anything towards creating a good overall shape. The foot and the rim are a bit overpowering in their thickness. Perhaps one thing that would help at the top and bottom is to have some crisp corners to define transitions. I don't like the step inside the rim -- it seems like something that was left unfinished. The undercutting on the rim shows very good work, but I think to work well the piece needs something to complement it -- a different body curvature that naturally carries over into the undercut area.

Thanks Bill. I see what you mean. That is a subtly undulation on the bowl but purely unintended. I didn't catch that at all and should have. I thought about making the foot a bit thinner or more delicate looking but frankly didn't know how to reconcile the rustic, or primitive, appearance I was shooting for with a more refined or subtle base.

As to the undercutting and the bowl form, in retrospect, maybe had i used the undercut to sweep into a subtle concave side the bowl might flow better? The rim was something that I thought about and wanted to be substantial but not overpowering. So I did the step inside to lighten it a bit, but I do see your point. Perhaps I could have done more undercutting, and made the lip a little higher, it would show the curve of the rim and lighten it, eliminating the step.

Always appreciate your thoughts!

Mark
 

john lucas

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Overall not bad for the amount of time you've spent turning. Bills comments are good. On a bottom that size you probably won't have much problems with wood movement. You're joints are good and you've overlapped the joint lines on each ring which is good.
I would highly recommend Richard Raffen's book on the art of bowl turning. It will help your forms imensly. Segmented or plain the overall form is everything. I don't care if it has 20 pieces or 2000 pieces, a bad form still sucks. Your's needs work but is way ahead of my early segmenting, talk about some ugly bowls.
Mostly on this piece if you just made the foot smaller and let the bowl slowly arc down to the foot it would have helped a lot. Not a fan of 2 contrasting rings. They don't really go with the rest of the vessel and the same is true of the foot which is of a different wood. It does look like you thought through the placement of these elements. Perhaps make the lip out of the " mahagony" and then put a ring a layer down, then make the foot out of the same thing. Look up the rule of thirds or golden mean for placement of feature rings. It might have been better with the mahagony as the overall vessel and the cypress as the feature ring.
If your really interested in segmented work pick up Malcolm Tibbets book. It will help you out a lot on some of the more difficult aspects of segmenting.
Good sanding and finishing. That alone puts you ahead of most new turners. Keep it up.
 

Mark Hepburn

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Overall not bad for the amount of time you've spent turning. Bills comments are good. On a bottom that size you probably won't have much problems with wood movement. You're joints are good and you've overlapped the joint lines on each ring which is good.
I would highly recommend Richard Raffen's book on the art of bowl turning. It will help your forms imensly. Segmented or plain the overall form is everything. I don't care if it has 20 pieces or 2000 pieces, a bad form still sucks. Your's needs work but is way ahead of my early segmenting, talk about some ugly bowls.
Mostly on this piece if you just made the foot smaller and let the bowl slowly arc down to the foot it would have helped a lot. Not a fan of 2 contrasting rings. They don't really go with the rest of the vessel and the same is true of the foot which is of a different wood. It does look like you thought through the placement of these elements. Perhaps make the lip out of the " mahagony" and then put a ring a layer down, then make the foot out of the same thing. Look up the rule of thirds or golden mean for placement of feature rings. It might have been better with the mahagony as the overall vessel and the cypress as the feature ring.
If your really interested in segmented work pick up Malcolm Tibbets book. It will help you out a lot on some of the more difficult aspects of segmenting.
Good sanding and finishing. That alone puts you ahead of most new turners. Keep it up.

John, thanks for commenting. I agree that if it sucks it sucks and the segment count is-to me -irrelevant. I'm going to do another bowl using these suggestions. The reason for the different woods was primarily because these we're part of the house and I wanted to represent them. Even though I don't like the magnolia at all. Ironically, I could have use less of it in the base and had a better looking bowl :)

I have malcolm tibbets' book and just got Raffan's yesterday. Reading both. And also planning on watching your YouTube videos on skews. Thanks again!
 
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Hi Mark..glad you are getting into segmenting. I've enjoyed it for decades, hope you do too. I think the best info I can pass on is: it is not all about the mechanics/the math/the building. One must still consider form, color, patterns, design, etc. This is where I see most segmenters failing. they worry so much about the segments, they forget it has to have grace. Keep at it. it will become easier. Keep making them & improving.
 

Mark Hepburn

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Hi Mark..glad you are getting into segmenting. I've enjoyed it for decades, hope you do too. I think the best info I can pass on is: it is not all about the mechanics/the math/the building. One must still consider form, color, patterns, design, etc. This is where I see most segmenters failing. they worry so much about the segments, they forget it has to have grace. Keep at it. it will become easier. Keep making them & improving.

Thanks Michelle!

I appreciate the advice. What interests me about segmenting is the possibilities it opens up. And hopefully I can keep focus on form and not worry about the segments themselves once I have developed the technical skills. You're right, the final form has to have grace (or we could just build cylinders with a thousand segments, right) :D
 
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I dont have anything constructive to say about the bowl (Other than WOW THATS NICE) I'm just starting at woodworking entirely, but I just moved up to Fort Smith Arkansas from Baton Rouge, and really enjoyed the story and wish I would have grabbed some cypres while I was still down there! :)

Great looking bowl!
 

Mark Hepburn

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I dont have anything constructive to say about the bowl (Other than WOW THATS NICE) I'm just starting at woodworking entirely, but I just moved up to Fort Smith Arkansas from Baton Rouge, and really enjoyed the story and wish I would have grabbed some cypres while I was still down there! :)

Great looking bowl!

Steven,

Thanks for your kind comments on the bowl. Fort Smith is very different from Baton Rouge but a great town. I lived there for a couple of years a looong time ago. Beautiful part of the state and if you get to Fayetteville, check to see if the AQ Chicken is still there. They had what I remember as the best fried chicken in the world.

Good luck with your new woodworking/turning. You may know that there are lots of folks here on this forum that are always willing and able to help. Thanks again,

Mark
 
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There are two really good clubs in the Ft. Smith area. Let me know when you get to town!
 
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