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Lathe opinions/considerations

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Alright let's pick a first lathe for this guy. Spending budget is kinda wiggly somewhere between $800-$1300 with stands included. I've narrowed it down to 3 and I'll give my reasons. The finalists are Jet 1221vs Jet10-15vs and Laguna Revo 1216. After spending time around my wood turning groups it seems very rare that I see pieces produced that these lathes can't handle. Most of the veteran woodturners are still turning bowls of the 8-12" range regularly. I've also become very interested in pen turning as for a new Turner it allows one to step into the shop and produce something you can walk away with in short order. I was concerned about bed length for a while but it seems that's less of a concern considering most things I've seen turned are less than what these lathes could accommodate. So my reasons for these 3 choices. I like size of each of these. I figure I'll get a smaller lathe to whet my appetite and gain experience as I save money and grow in skill until I get the big "forever" lathe. The jet 1015vs is my budget lathe, I like it's price but I have reservations on the size of the motor. Also it lacks reverse. I would also have to configure and purchase a separate mobile base for it as I plan on turning outdoors. The 1221vs seems the best all around in length and swing but seems the most cumbersome in making it into a mobile platform. The Revo 1216 while lacking reverse has an overall final fit and finish that I really appreciate. Would I be just as well served for my money going with jet1015vs $830 the 1221 and 1216 are $1100 -$1200 give or take. My heart is set on the Laguna simply because of the final fit and finish of product. My question being is that a ridiculous price considering I could get a similar out of the box package in the 1015vs for about 400 cheaper. Also the1216 is still new and I'm not sure if all the bugs have been worked out. Any advice on customer support between these 2 brands and if there are other lathes I should consider in that price range please sound off. Keep in mind this will be a mobile lathe. I have a small shop space and I prefer to be able to roll it onto the apron of the driveway when I turn. Abundant apologies for the long post and plenty thanks for your suggestions and wisdom.
 

hockenbery

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finalists are Jet 1221vs Jet10-15vs and Laguna Revo 1216. After spending time around my wood turning groups it seems very rare that I see pieces produced that these lathes can't handle. Most of the veteran woodturners are still turning bowls of the 8-12" range regularly

A couple of things to consider size wise.
Take 2 inches off the swing for the bowl size.

A 12” lathe with turn a 10” bowl comfortably.
A 10” lathe will turn an 8” bowl comfortably.

I want to be able to get the banjo under the bowl.
If you turn a couple 11.75” bowls a year you can live with the inconvenience or removing the work from the lathe and putting it back on to move the banjo to the other side of the work. Might do this 2-3 times per bowl.
Often people get lazy and compromise the end quality of the work by working only from one side of the bowl.

Also the a roughing a 12” half log blank on a 12” lathe takes about 5 times longer than roughing the blank on a 20” machine.

I like the Jet 1221 a lot. The Revo might be fine but I have not turned one.

If you want to to do small bowls often. Forget the 10”
I used to do a lot of sidewalk demos with 10” lathes. Did a lot of NE bowls using 1/2 log 5-6” diameter by 8” long.
This is about its limit. The 5 speed minis have a lot better power than the variable speed models.
If you want to do bowls on a mini look for the 5 speed models.

I would argue that few veteran bowl turners turn only small bowls. Most rarely turn bowls smaller than 10” diameter or larger than 16” diameter. Than said there a few turners who specialize in small bowls.
 
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Ican't say anything about those 3 lathes as I haven't used any of them.
I started with an 8 inch lathe, a month later bought a nova comet 12 inch lathe, 2 months later, after trying to green turn 10-12 inch green off balance blanks I moved to a 16 inch lathe. I've had that for a year, now I'm wishing I had a revo 1836 or similar as i quite often get wood that I could turn a 16 inch natural edge but end up with about 14 and a half instead.
As the saying goes you can turn small stuff on a big lathe but not big stuff on a small lathe.
As for pen turning, I can turn out a small/medium bowl, box, bud vase or several other things much quicker or in the same time it takes doing all the various steps required for pen turning. I turned about half a dozen pens, gave them away and just haven't been able to make myself turn one since.

You could go with a 16x24 lathe, honestly wouldn't take up much more space than the 1221, and you can still make or purchase some sort of mobile base for it.
 
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Joshua, who told you the Laguna had no reverse. It definitely does! Although I haven't put my hands on this machine, all the videos on this lathe state that it has reverse. BTW, I own an 1836 and absolutely love it. I also agree with Russell on buying as big as you can up front because after you get caught up into the vortex, buying small is never big enough. The old saying of "buy once, cry once" holds true with lathes.
I too started out small with a Rikon midi. It is a fine machine, but I found it too small for most of my turnings. I quickly bought the 1836 less than a year later.
Whichever you choose, enjoy the ride and have lots of fun.
 
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If you are in it for the long haul you might as well get a 16x24 or larger lathe, they are easy to resell as most woodturners are always upsizing to a larger lathe from a smaller one. There are plenty of used lathes on the market, you could find a smaller 12" lathe for a decent price and then purchase a larger lathe latter on after you have learned your basic turning skills on the smaller lathe. Most of the smaller lathes have a 1x8 threaded spindle if you tool up on that spindle size you are somewhat limited in larger lathes with that spindle thread size. You can usually get a 16" or 18" lathe with a 1x8 spindle, anything larger then that and the spindle thread usually is larger in size to handle the heavier wood blanks. A 12" mid-sized lathe will have a hard time turning a green hard wood bowl 12" in diameter without dancing across the floor, you usually need to bolt them down to the floor or add sand bags to weight the lathe down to handle an out of balance green wood blank. A larger sized cast iron lathe will be heavier in weight and be able to handle larger green out of balance wood blanks without having the lathe dance across the floor. If you like turning bowls get a larger lathe. I have 5 lathes in my work shop and the 1st lathe I purchased is now used as a buffing station with buffing wheels mounted on a steel shaft mounted on the lathe. If you start out with a larger lathe you can build your tools and accessories on the spindle thread that comes with the larger lathe. If you start with a mid-sized lathe you might end up having to purchase new accessories and face plates and chucks to fit the larger lathe if you decide latter on to upsize.
 
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Josh,
Nearly any lathe can be portable. There are a number of regular posters here who move their full sized lathes around in the garage or out onto the drive.

Personally, I love using my original Jet 1015VS for the things it can do well, but the above comment about power is quite correct. With the DC motor, you have to have it at maximum rpm at a belt position in order to get full power. At slower speed for the position, it stalls easily. The net result is that you really don't want to mount a maximum sized piece of wood to make a bowl. Spindle turning is generally great, but bowls can be a struggle. I assume the 1221 has quite a bit more oomph and less struggle, and might be that 90%-of-what-you-will-actually-do lathe. I've been quite pleased with the quality of the Jet.
 

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Don't equate swing with what you expect to turn. As Al said, subtract two inches ... and that's if you start with perfectly circular blanks. If the lathe has a swing of twelve inches the largest perfectly circular blank would be ten inches. And, the largest square blank would be seven inches (because the diagonal would be ten inches).

The lathes that you are considering are all fine machines, but variable speed lathes in this size and price range don't have the power to turn bowls approaching the maximum swing so I wouldn't think of any of these lathes as being decent bowl turning machines. They would be great for pens, bottles toppers, boxes, snowmen, Christmas tree ornaments, weed pots (AKA dried flower vases), and very small bowls such as Japanese donburi bowls.

I have a Jet 1014 six speed lathe and it is capable of handling anything that will fit above the ways. Since it able provide full power at each speed I much prefer it over the variable speed models.
 
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Ultimately it comes down to cost vs quality and time for me. My wife and I are expecting our first little one in 3 weeks, I'm working on my masters degree and we're both educators so the money game is tightening up even more than it already was. Moreover as I look at the costs of the larger lathes the only ones that seem to be in my financial range are the grizzly. I have talked to several guys in my local turning groups and some love them others gently suggest to buy a more quality lathe, I've seen similar sentiments here. Jet has the 1440 without the stand and with the stand it's about $1600. As for buying used I've searched around my area and found very little, either old dinosaurs full on nostalgia and empty in practical use. In the 'budget' lathes I've shopped online, via woodcraft, Packard, Rockler or similar stores there's almost always and additional $100 shipping fee tacked on to the original price, which usually puts me within a few dollars of one of the quality midi lathe brands. To avoid the shipping cost I've looked locally and I really only have 2 local dealers each stock Jet and Laguna and each tend to point me towards those brands for my price range. I don't know if you get what you pay for in the lathe world but that sentiment still seems to remain true in other areas and I'd like to know I'm getting quality piece when I buy it. So if you guys are telling me go for something like the grizzly 16x24 i'll consider that as well. Ultimately this will be first lathe to cut my teeth on (while I save up for the big one) and if it falls short of something I'd like to turn (such as monster bowls) i'll just have to be content. My intention is to become really good with one skill before moving to the next. Now I'm not disagreeing with you guys on the size of the lathe, I have seen and touched the Powermatics, and big lagunas and robusts and I have seen that they are wonderfully amazing machines but I'm just don't have the coin at the moment and I want to get into the game now rather than wait another year or 2 and buy the big lathe. I believe I could still be building my skills to some extent rather than nothing at all. Honestly I've done a few turnings with some of the people in my turning group and the bug has bit me and I can't wait to have one in the garage I can roll out and turn something on a Saturday morning. That being said I can pick up the Jet 1015sp at my local store for $499 and $150 for the stand and be turning on Sunday afternoon. So if I stretched for the Laguna 1216 am I just paying for the Calvin Klein tag on the standard levis? I think my struggle is not knowing the quality associated with the names of lathe manufacturers. I don't have a lot to spend from the perspective of the lathe world but I would rather spend a little more and get a quality piece to have well into the future. Most veteran turners I've spoken with usually have a good midi and then the behemoth that takes center stage because you can turn different projects on each, this was my thought process in purchasing a midi up front.
 
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Hi Joshua, I started turning roughly 2 years ago. I am just a hobby turner but have definitely caught the turning bug. I started out turning on a Penn State 10" variable speed lathe. Good little lathe with a 3/4 HP motor. It has plenty of power for it's size. Penn State also carries a 12" model as well with a 1 hp motor. Neither of them have a reverse option but I didn't find myself missing that feature when I was in my early learning mode. My 10" Penn State lathe was a very good lathe to begin my journey in wood turning and in fact I still own it. Price wise it is less costly then the Jet or Laguna. After about 18 months I began looking at the Laguna, Nova and Jet's when considering a larger lathe. Ultimately I chose a Jet based on recommendations from others but also because of specific features and Jet offers 5 year warranties on their equipment whereas Laguna offers 1 year. I ruled out a Nova because I wasn't interested in a DVR option. I patiently waited until Black Friday to purchase my lathe when there is a lot of great discounts offered. I will also add, that I thought I would like to turn larger bowls and hollow forms which also led me to want a larger lathe. Since I have purchased my larger lathe, to my surprise, I have turned only one very large bowl. The rest of my turnings are of the size that could adequately be done by a 12" lathe as most of what I do is 9" or 10" bowls, lidded boxes, and hollow forms. But it's always good to know that I have the capacity on my larger lathe should I ever need it for somethning larger and it is a much nicer turning experience on the larger lathe. Basck to Penn State, alsong with my 10" lathe, I also bought a Barracuda 4 jaw chuck from them that is sized for a 1" spindle which is common for the smaller lathes. Although I purchased a larger Record Power chuck for my new Jet lathe, I also purchased an adaptor for the Baracuda chuck so I now have the option to use it on my larger lathe. Penn State also sell's pretty good turning tools. I suggest checking out Penn State becasue I think it is another viable and economical option for those wanting to get started in turning on a limited budget and they offer a lot in the way of pen turning, which you mentioned as one of your interests in turning.
 
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Nothing wrong with a midi up front. If it is a quality one, you will likely keep it if and when you go to a bigger lathe. Actually, you may find that you like making smaller items, and will have no need for a larger lathe. However, you may still have a desire for a larger lathe. At least one respected member on this forum has stated that they continue to use their midi or mini (I forget which) more than their full sized lathe for their turning.

I have no experience with any of the lathes you mentioned; except, the Jet 1221vs. It is an excellent lathe backed by excellent customer service and warranty.
 
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Since I have purchased my larger lathe, to my surprise, I have turned only one very large bowl. The rest of my turnings are of the size that could adequately be done by a 12" lathe as most of what I do is 9" or 10" bowls, lidded boxes, and hollow forms

I have noted this same situation in the majority of the veteran turners of our local group when we do our turned wood "show and tell", most of them have something that could be turned on a smaller lathe. One gentleman specifically loves turning little vases and boxes and ended up buying a smaller benchtop because his big Powermatic was too cumbersome to maneuver around.
 
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I do like the Jet 1221VS--but I find the acceleration time in the electronic speed control a bit annoying.

I personally own a Nova Comet ii (purchased at the KC Symposium a couple of years ago) as a "local" lathe. Put that on your radar screen, those frequently get bundled with a Nova chuck. (Of course, you'll have to un-learn righty-tighty if you get a Nova chuck...). I have turned 10" platters, square platters, and natural edge on the Comet ii, in addition to smaller items such as boxes. I've had good experience with the Nova customer service center in Florida (needed some replacement parts because the booth lathe was assembled incorrectly). Don't expect it to be as powerful as a Robust AB, but it's fine for smaller bowls, beads-of-courage bowls, platters, boxes, pens, etc.--It will also do shorter rolling pins, mini-vases, etc.

You're in SC--go to Raleigh for the Symposium next month, and help a vendor *NOT* bring a lathe back with them. Drive it back from Raleigh to North Augusta (is that next to Aiken?). If you go to the Symposium, I would also put the Colt SM-350 14inch midi on your list. It's a stretch on your budget, but the one I saw at the KC Symposium was really nice.

Best,

Hy
 

hockenbery

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Get connected with the local AAW chapters in your area. Tell them you are looking for a used lathe.
This is hit or miss but our chapter has a lathe about every month.

Use lathes are often priced about 1/2 the new cost or less.

Used lathes are rarely used”. In most cases you will be able to resell your used machine for about what you pay for it now if you decide to buy a new one.

Yesterday there was a jet1221vs with bed extension hardly used asking $800 the current
amazon price for me would be about $1090 plus $77 tax. Amazon puts it on my porch Versus driving to get the used lathe. This lathe is less than a year old.
Who knows $700 might take it home.
 
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variable speed lathes in this size and price range don't have the power to turn bowls approaching the maximum swing
I've seen the stated elsewhere in these forums, from a mechanical standpoint help a non-mechanical mind understand why on the smaller hp motors the step-pulley system is stronger than the VS. That being said how much more frustrating is it to switch belts during the turning process on a step pulley system vs being able to dial it in? it seems simple enough.
 

hockenbery

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Dep
I've seen the stated elsewhere in these forums, from a mechanical standpoint help a non-mechanical mind understand why on the smaller hp motors the step-pulley system is stronger than the VS. That being said how much more frustrating is it to switch belts during the turning process on a step pulley system vs being able to dial it in? it seems simple enough.

The vs lathes on your list have step pulleys too!

Difficulty of belt change depends on the lathe, your point of view, and in some cases the size and dexterity of your hands. The Jet 1221 vs is really easy IMHO. The jet 10 is easy unless you have big hands then it is a struggle to work inside the small doors. And you do have two doors.

Also the 10” jet has the motor lock right where kids turning tops pile up the shavings. When they pull up on the motor to loosen the belts the shavings compress around the locking bolt relocking the motor in place until you open the bolt more or remove it to get the shavings out.
Brushing off the shavings before unlocking the motor lock down prevents the problem.

Keep in mind the vs lathes you are looking at all have step pulleys as do most of the big boys.
Few motor configurations will go from 0 to 3200-4000 the Variable speed of the motor will typically go from 500 to 1800. Typically The lower step pulleys cut speed range in half the upper step pulleys double it. the middle pulley are the same size giving 1 to 1 motor to lathe RPMs

Lower speed pulleys give you more torque and finer adjustment of speed - both a big help when roughing unbalanced work.

While you may have enough power to turn a big bowl entirely on the high range by choosing the slow speeds the dynamic range of the speed adjustment is too difficult to fiddle with and the lower pulleys let you fine tune a minimum vibration speed that you almost can't Zero in on Using the high pulleys.
 
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hockenbery

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@Joshua Rhodes

Until you have worked with a few lathes the belt change can be hard to understand. Below is a Jet advertisement photo for the 1221 vs.
concept is simple the pulleys on the motor shaft all go around at the Motor’s rpm.
The speed dial controls the motor RPM.
The pulley settings multiply the motor RPM to give the spindle RPM
slow speed - little pulley on the motor goes around once big pulley on the spindle goes around less than once
Fast speed - big pulley on the motor goes around once little pulley on the spindle goes around more than once

Jet says the speeds are low 60-900, center 110-1800, high 220-3600

The belt change in the Jet 1221vs takes less than a minute. Maybe 20 seconds.

7,8 are close the doors.


EC45084C-A9E6-4556-93F6-9184C0B53F9D.jpeg
 
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Just a few thoughts as everything else has been covered. To address your wonder at why use a large lathe to turn small items. The answer is simple : the large lathe has more power and will make it easier to turn all items from small to large. I think Bill Boehme has stated that the variable speed drives (electronic) do lose torque at higher speeds. But I have found that I am more likely to change speeds if I have a VS lathe rather than the manual belt change.

As you get more experience you can turn faster whether it is a small or large lathe simply by varying the bite you take from the wood with the gouge. I like to hog away the waste just because I have a 20 inch lathe but that is not a needed thing.

As Al said if you are not in a big hurry you can get a used Jet or something else in used condition and save some bucks.

By the way to make your posts more readable you might try doing a double space every now and then to create separation.
 
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A few additional thoughts. First, avoid the Jet 1440. It's a terrific size and the price makes it tempting, but it still has a Reeves drive variable speed, rather than an electronic variable speed. The contemporary mechanical (Reeves Drive) variable speeds can have problems and parts can be scarce.

Second, in addition to saving money by buying at the Symposium, keep in mind that Jet lathes go on sale 2-3 times a year, allowing you to save 10-15%.

Third, reaching out to clubs within reasonable driving distance produced several good options in used lathes for me. It does require being patient, and you've got the hots pretty bad. ;)

Fourth, the Nova 1624 is a full sized lathe that requires you to change belt position to change speed and it's a little lighter weight than other similar sized lathes, but it's arguably tops in the bang for the buck category among new lathes, if those two aspects aren't a concern.

Finally, and probably most importantly, keep in mind that you will spend the same amount for tools and gadgets as you will for your lathe. If you've got $1000, you'd be smart to be shopping for a $500 lathe.

Good luck on your purchase and your soon to arrive child. Now go get some sleep while you can.
 
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I've seen the stated elsewhere in these forums, from a mechanical standpoint help a non-mechanical mind understand why on the smaller hp motors the step-pulley system is stronger than the VS. That being said how much more frustrating is it to switch belts during the turning process on a step pulley system vs being able to dial it in? it seems simple enough.
I have used mini-lathes where you change the speed by changing the belts. (a) pain in the tush, and (b) the slowest speed is still too fast for some operations.

Once you go to "dial-a-speed" (even with Reeves drive), there's no turning back. And electronic VS is far better than Reeves (even though you do get better low speed torque with Reeves than with the low-end electronic VS).

Understand that my big lathe is similar to the one pictured in my avatar--but I am quite satisfied with using the Nova Comet ii for bowls and platters up to 10-11" in diameter--I just need to pay more attention to having a light hand during roughing out.

The Colt 14" midi has a high-end electronic VS (VFD if you want to get acronym-happy), and should get you good low-speed torque.

Budget yourself a 3-5 day workshop too. When I decided to upgrade myself from a Shopsmith to a more lathe-like tool, I included in my budget a 1-week workshop. While a 1-day workshop will be quite good, in a multiday workshop, you'll be able to build muscle memory a lot faster.
 
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I may just wait a few months and see what comes to the surface from some private sales. Someone mentioned Black Friday Sale so I might just sandbag the decision until then and be ready to spend on a bigger lathe. I don't want to push this purchase so I may go back to researching bigger lathes and take the big hit all at once. Based off of your suggestions I'm thinking I'd be happy having more versatility offered in a bigger lathe.

Unfortunately the wife nixed the idea of me going to the symposium this year. It's almost 5 hours away and it's 2 days before her due date. She said it's because she's afraid I wouldn't make it back in time if the baby decided to come. However I think she's actually concerned I'm a flight risk and doesn't want to give me a 5 hour head start. :D

Thank you so much for all of your advice. I'll do a bit more research and if you'll permit me, we may do this lil conversation again in November. I know y'all get a lot of these 'which lathes should I buy' but the knowledge you offer to a new kid on the playground like me is so so helpful and helps get us down the line a little bit faster. It is appreciated.
 

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Ditto on the sent @Joshua Rhodes a conversation with the AAW mailing.

DavidEllsworth, Hans Weissflog, and Stuart Batty as our lead demonstrators,along with Georgians Dan Douthart, Bill Lynch,and Steve Mellott.

Great opportunity to see terrific turners.
Stewart Batty and David Ellsworth two exceptional skilled turners.
On one level they approach turning differently on another level quite the same
 

hockenbery

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I had the great fortune to take a week long class with David in 1995 the year after taking a week long class with Liam O’Neil. I was a ok turner before having been self taught.
Those two guys had a profound impact on the way I turn now and how I approach woodturning.

David teaches weekend workshops at his studio in N.C. check the schedule on his web site.
 
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One more dumb/ learning/ safety question.

Are woodturning lathes only for wood or can they turn softer metals, polish stones etc? I saw a YouTube video of a fella turning small brass fittings for a pen.
 

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All kinds of materials can be turned on a wood lathe.
The limitations are what can be cut or scraped with a handheld tool.
Metal, Stone, plastics, plywood, manufactured materials, cast materials, various resins.....

Brass, copper, aluminum, pewter all turn easily with HS tools

Few alternative materials are a pleasant to turn as a fresh cut green wood.

In addition metal spinning can be done on a wood lathe. This is process of bending a metal sheet around a form usual turned from wood. Usually silver, pewter, brass, copper
 
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One other option is to rent/lease a lathe for a year and then invest in purchasing your own lathe. Many of the woodturning clubs have lathes that they use for Demos and club events, many of the clubs will rent them out to members at a very reasonable cost.
 
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I have the Rikon 12" variable speed lathe. Haven't been able to turn much with it this year since the weather turned nice, but used it a ton last year and like it a lot. My only other lathe was a 10" model from Penn State. I went with the Rikon pretty much soley because it was so much cheaper than the Jet.

I dream of bigger, and saving my pennies to get there. My current short list is the Jet 1640EVS. Although that colt lathe is interesting. I hadn't seen that one before this thread. I got the Rikon with the idea that I'll hold onto it when I'm able to get a larger lathe. Unfortunately my larger lathe will still need to be limited to 110.

If you have a space to start turning now, jump in with what you can afford now instead of waiting for the perfect setup to come along. So often that perfect thing never materializes.
 
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Another option for turning larger diameter projects is a lathe that has the feature of turning outboard and if you are handy with fabricating metal you can make riser blocks for the lathe headstock and tailstock and increase the capability of a mid-size lathe. Riser blocks need to be very precise to align the headstock and tailstock after fabricating and installing, any variance and you will have problems turning between centers.
 
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Messages
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Location
Albuquerque, NM
Just a question on brands, I know each machine has it's own specifications but in general is Rikon a trusted and quality company? I see it offers a 5 year warranty like Jet

I have seen (but not turned on) the Rikon 12".

I have personally owned the small Rikon dust collector, Rikon grinder, and Rikon 14" bandsaw. Good customer service (needed questions answered for things not in the manual), acceptable design & quality-of-build.
 
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