Which Sanding Sealer?

[Al Portante]

I see so many types, but which one? Bulls Eye has two versions - one called "wax free shellac" sanding sealer ($20). Another called "wax free formula" sanding sealer ($30). And many others like Waterlox, but little on comparisons between all these. What are their characteristics and applications, besides the obvious?

I have a red cedar serving platter I'm finishing. Wondering which sealer I should try, as I've not used sealers in the past. Thanks for the help all!

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Al, I like the wax free shellac because it can take just about any finish I can think of. I've used the Bullseye with lots of success. No info on Waterlox personally, though.

 

[William Rogers]

All I ever use is the wax free bulls eye. You can put any finish over it.

 

[Al Portante]

All I ever use is the wax free bulls eye. You can put any finish over it.

They're both called wax free. One is 'shellac', another called 'formula'....and 50% more! What's the difference?

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Al, I use the wax free shellac from Bullseye. I don't know what the "formula" stuff has in it but never used it. The wax free shellac is a universal finish. You can top it with lacquer, poly, more shellac, and so on. Save the $$. That's my two cents.

 

[William Rogers]

They're both called wax free. One is 'shellac', another called 'formula'....and 50% more! What's the difference?

Zinsser bulls eye wax free shellac. Same as Mark H I think.

 

[Al Portante]

Well thank you! Saved me $10. If you're ever in my neck, I'll buy you a beer!

 

[Brian Gustin]

Yeah careful - The "SealCoat" Sanding sealer shellac is wax-free, but the Bullseye "Shellac" (doesn't say sanding sealer) is NOT dewaxed. I found that out the hard way (though it was only a quart can.. Only sanding sealer they had at the local building supply was in gallon size, and I didn't want THAT much!)

 

[Michael Anderson]

I’ve always used plain shellac, made from flakes into a 1lb cut. Works pretty well.

 

[Dean Center]

Al,
If this is all old news to you, I apologize.

The reason to use a sanding sealer, if I understand correctly, is to fill the small pores in the wood with the ultimate goal of a very smooth finish. If you don't want a museum quality, glass-like finish, you don't need to use sanding sealer. Some people believe you can just use an extra coat of whatever finish you're going to use, instead of a specific sanding sealer product.

 

[Richard Coers]

In the furniture industry, sanding sealer is a clear finish with zinc stearate added to make sanding easier and not clog sandpaper. It is too soft from the zinc stearate to be a final finish. So far, everyone is just talking about a finish. Wax in shellac is fine for any finish top coat except for water based finishes. Lacquer works wonderfully on top of any kind of shellac.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Thanks @Richard Coers for an accurate description of sealer use. The stearate also makes the sealer more “puffy” or full, filling in pores/defects more quickly. Although zinsser calls the dewaxed product a sealer, it does not have stearates in it.

Particularly for turnings, I’ve never found a use for sealers - dewaxed shellac, yes. Be aware that a sealer will “block” any color penetration - can be good or bad, depending what the desired result is.

Al, what type of final finish are you after? Quite possible a sealer is not needed.

 

[Michael Anderson]

Be aware that a sealer will “block” any color penetration - can be good or bad, depending what the desired result is.

This is an important statement. On the “good” side, if using CA glue, a sealer can help prevent the CA from discoloring the wood, as well as make it easier to sand off.

 

[Marc Banka]

Since this is a serving platter (and will actually serve) I wouldn’t use a sealer at all. I want maximum penetration and volume for my pieces that I want to have kitchen/serving functions. A sealer prevents penetration except for the surface. A film finish will scratch and wear, will look awesome until used a few times. Oil finishes with plenty of curing time, or a Danish oil type finish, thinned appropriately for the wood species will last forever and be easy to maintain.

 

[Richard Coers]

Since this is a serving platter (and will actually serve) I wouldn’t use a sealer at all. I want maximum penetration and volume for my pieces that I want to have kitchen/serving functions. A sealer prevents penetration except for the surface. A film finish will scratch and wear, will look awesome until used a few times. Oil finishes with plenty of curing time, or a Danish oil type finish, thinned appropriately for the wood species will last forever and be easy to maintain.

Won't an oil finish scratch as well? How can just another coat of oil fix the damage? If the scratch doesn't go through the film finish, then you just do a fine sanding and you are back to pristine. Maybe you use a lot more aggressive serving tool than we do.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Won't an oil finish scratch as well? How can just another coat of oil fix the damage? If the scratch doesn't go through the film finish, then you just do a fine sanding and you are back to pristine. Maybe you use a lot more aggressive serving tool than we do.

Depends on your oil finish - a finish like danish oil, walnut oil, linseed oil they'll absorb into the wood, to scratch that finish you have to also scratch the wood itself. sanding sealer may minimize penetration of the oil finish, but by its nature, it really does not create a surface film that would be scratchable, in my experience.

 

[Al Portante]

Thanks @Richard Coers for an accurate description of sealer use. The stearate also makes the sealer more “puffy” or full, filling in pores/defects more quickly. Although zinsser calls the dewaxed product a sealer, it does not have stearates in it.

Particularly for turnings, I’ve never found a use for sealers - dewaxed shellac, yes. Be aware that a sealer will “block” any color penetration - can be good or bad, depending what the desired result is.

Al, what type of final finish are you after? Quite possible a sealer is not needed.

I typically go for the satin sheen of an oil and wax finish. Given this is cedar, I thought a sealer would help give it a good base, prior to oil.....maybe I'm wrong here?

 

[Al Portante]

Since this is a serving platter (and will actually serve) I wouldn’t use a sealer at all. I want maximum penetration and volume for my pieces that I want to have kitchen/serving functions. A sealer prevents penetration except for the surface. A film finish will scratch and wear, will look awesome until used a few times. Oil finishes with plenty of curing time, or a Danish oil type finish, thinned appropriately for the wood species will last forever and be easy to maintain.

this was my first thought although given the porosity of cedar, I'm thinking I should seal this first...or not?

 

[Marc Banka]

Won't an oil finish scratch as well? How can just another coat of oil fix the damage? If the scratch doesn't go through the film finish, then you just do a fine sanding and you are back to pristine. Maybe you use a lot more aggressive serving tool than we do.

Wow, great question, Richard. Set me to pondering, a bit.

The scratches are a bit different between film and oil.

It’s possible to scratch just the film and not the platter. Then, as you said, sand it back and good as new. But, that’s you, not the eventual new owner. They’ve got nothing.
Scratching the oil finished bowl is scratching the bowl. Those scratches might be softer and rounder than in the hard finish, and do mostly blend in with a bit of oil.

This is where use comes in to play. This platter will have a life, hopefully a long life filled with celebrations, when it will be scratched, bumped, banged and maybe dropped once or twice - hopefully not when it’s carrying Thanksgiving dinner. The film finish won’t serve well. It’ll be damaged to the point that it will wear through leaving the wood susceptible to damage, the finish being mostly ‘on the surface’.

The ‘some maintenance required’ penetrating finishes age well. They’re in it for the long haul.

New care shine is great for cars or pieces that don’t get used.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

As soft as cedar is all this may be mote point. I would say scratches just show use and love to the item, because it will scratch easily.

 

[Marc Banka]

this was my first thought although given the porosity of cedar, I'm thinking I should seal this first...or not?

Not

 

[Doug Freeman]

this was my first thought although given the porosity of cedar, I'm thinking I should seal this first...or not?

Just the opposite. Get as much finish into the wood as possible. The cured finish will reinforce the soft wood.

I agree with Marc’s description film vs oil, or what I call “in the wood” finish. I use thinned poly a lot for in the wood (no film), but where utensils will be used I use oil because it is softer. Where the poly scratches, the oil “gives and bends”, and the surface, while still marked, doesnt look as bad.

Thinning the oil aids penetration.

 

[Al Portante]

Ok folks. Your logic seems sound to me and I have some learning to do, so no sealer it is. I'll give it a few long soaks with thinned tung oil and wax it up.

 

[Raja Abusharr]

Zinsser bulls eye wax free shellac. Same as Mark H I think.

View attachment 52359View attachment 52359

Is this essentially the same as the Zinsser "Shellac" minus the wax? Its not a cellulose (lacquer) like Mylands I assume?

 

[William Rogers]

It is 100% shellac. So I think it would be the same as Zinsser Shellac minus the wax.

 

[Terry Brown]

Al;
The chemical in aromatic/red cedar that keeps insects out of your cedar chest can exude or penetrate many finishes. Shellac is a good finish for sealing in this chemical compound. When separated, two cedar boards that were stored face to face will exhibit small crystals on their surface. This is what you are trying to seal into the wood. There are many examples of people who had trouble with finishes not working when applied onto unsealed cedar.